posted September 09, 2014 10:20 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I like how you explained it, its a balanced objective analysis. I work with the mentally ill and so far only one of the charts has a moon in pisces and none of the charts I have checked are heavy in water.

The one that does have moon in pisces if you check the chart her moon conjuncts chiron and this opposes her sun/mercury/pluto, her jupiter/saturn opposes her venus, she has lots of inconjunctions too and over all her chart is stressful and the only planet that only has soft aspects and is not afflicted is Neptune.

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^ Wow!

You make a good point, it's the whole chart that tells the story, plus the person's life-- not just the moon sign.

ETA: Oh, I just saw you posted the chart. I agree, it screams tension. Sun-NN-Uranus
quincunx Jupiter-Saturn...moon-Chiron...ouch.

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Even with my seriously afflicted Pisces moon, it doesn't manifest as craziness or BPD. For one thing I think t-squares are more stable than plain squares, the way a tricycle is more stable than a bike. My moon squares Neptune and Mars, so it's mainly just a problem of drifting, not knowing exactly what to do sometimes. Inefficiency. Even when I've made some bad (overly Neptunian) decisions, my sense of logic was intact, my social skills and basic personality didn't change.

Maybe because my sun is in mutual reception with 12H Saturn...it anchors me. And I assume that if other people have "anchors" like that in their chart, it can stabilize whatever erratic or emotionally labile tendencies they may have.

I think I would look to see how Saturn is aspected. (?)

posted September 09, 2014 10:34 AM            

This is the mother who has suffered from bipolar her whole life, her chart is mainly fire and air with venus and saturn in scorpio but NOT aspecting. She has an Earth Void in her chart though which based on her chart that is what sticks out the most in addition to having an afflicted Saturn so perhaps the combo of an afflicted saturn with an earth void:
Her TOB is unknown at this time

Here is the chart of her son who is severely mentally ill and has hit his mother, is abusive towards her, has been in and out jail several times, is super unstable, and has been hospitalized many times. Notice he has a complete AIR void and a water singleton with Pluto in scorpio; he is mostly earth and fire. His mars is afflicted as well and he seems to be very good at destroying property and been abusive towards his mother, notice his pluto squares his moon by one orb in combo with afflicted mars.

His TOB is Unknown too:

posted September 09, 2014 10:41 AM            

Interestingly, both of the above patients have sun conjunct Neptune, so in a way, it is still a water affliction.

posted September 09, 2014 10:50 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thanks for the charts

Interestingly, both of the above patients have sun conjunct Neptune, so in a way, it is still a water affliction.

And all three charts you've posted have a personal planet conjunct NN. Wow.

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You are isolating one aspect and saying that is the cause, its one of the contributors PERHAPS.

Neither has moon in pisces or in water nor are their moons aspecting harshly neptune.

I don't think the NN is why they have issues.

posted September 09, 2014 11:15 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
You are isolating one aspect and saying that is the cause, its one of the contributors PERHAPS.

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Not in the slightest. When I said it was still a "water affliction," I only meant to comment that water can be involved even in a chart where there is an ostensible water void.

posted September 09, 2014 12:19 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Thanks for your appreciation, Hypathia. All the charts you posted have strong Neptune (2 of them even Neptune in 12th) - one of the symbols of Neptune is being lost in a world of illusions (hence the connection between Neptune and mental illness)
BUT no chart can become a standard mental illness chart...all these charts could belong to perfectly healthy people. It's just when we look at them retrospectively, we understand the connection between that illness and astrology, but not the other way around.
Moon Chiron for instance is a rather difficult aspect because it makes someone very sensitive, emotionally. In Pisces...extremely sensitive and easily hurt. But most people with this aspect are healthy and they become great counselors, healers, doctors, philanthropists, priests etc because the combo also makes one extremely gifted for empathy and healing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I think any planet and any placement of the Moon can make a combo behind a certain type of psychiatric problems and I agree with you, it's not a water thing.

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All the charts I posted do not have correct birth times. I don't have the birth time for any of them so the neptune in the 12th could be wrong or right.

However I couldn't agree with you more, I have found that what you are saying is the case. There is not a standard mental illness chart; all we can do is look at charts retrospectively which once done allows us to see the connections from the chart and the mental illness.

posted September 09, 2014 12:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Not in the slightest. When I said it was still a "water affliction," I only meant to comment that water can be involved even in a chart where there is an ostensible water void.

Just pointing out what's there, and as I said above, it's the whole chart and life story that has to be taken into account.

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Oh yeah! That is true but neither the mother or son have a water void even if we go just by signs. One had an earth void and the other an Air void and what is interesting is that they clearly have a karmic relationship and that she has an earth void but her son has a lot of earth and the son has an air void but the mother has a lot of air........

posted September 09, 2014 01:12 PM            

And I agree, that relationship looks karmic!

I wonder if both of them have moon-Jupiter aspects. Seems that might "inflate" the emotions, make them harder to contain or deal with (?)

Not saying any one thing is a cause of mental illness, but certain aspects do bring challenges, which, when combined with other aspects (and transits), may prove overwhelming.

I also want to point out that afflictions aren't necessarily bad, once a person has figured out how to deal with the energy. Some astrologers say that "some of the best people have the worst charts" (I'm loosely quoting from the book Parker's Astrology.) And I've seen positive Mars-Uranus aspects in a LOT of serial killer charts, which makes a person wonder.