posted December 15, 2014 11:51 PM            

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Originally posted by theunknown:
There are ways to be assertive without sounding rude

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Not to everyone. Plenty will call you rude for even the most polite but firm disagreement or even saying "no" to the hundredth request (when they've been ignoring that you have your own life to deal with as well and don't factor in the 99 things you said yes to despite the inconvenience).

Generally speaking, the labels and descriptions aren't objective in the least, but subjective based on how you feel about the person and/or their words at the moment. Those quick to use these labels don't even have objective standards to list, and of those who do will often ignore them when a friend (or their own self) uses them in which case it no longer counts (because it's subjective, no matter how much they want to pretend otherwise).

Heck, if people even just imagine you think ill of them (and some feel that way about most everyone who isn't exactly like them) they can be inclined to list everything you say as passive aggressive until you finally snap and then they feel their intuition or whatever is confirmed about your hostility to them without being aware of how it only became true because of the constant accusations and unjustified (but feels justified) hostile or cringing attitude toward them.

More than once I've considered if humans being powerful telepaths (thinking like the Betazoids of Star Trek) would make things a lot better...or a lot worse.

posted December 16, 2014 12:47 AM            

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Originally posted by callarosa:
I wouldn't necessarily analyse that from an astrological perspective, to be honest. We are taught from a young age that feeling anger and expressing anger are negative qualities, and that we must be quiet and passive, lest we be labelled "drama queens" or "b-tches." Yet when we become adults, the fear of publicly showing negative emotion that was instilled in us as children suddenly makes us "passive aggressive." But of course, the moment you become assertive about expressing yourself someone will call you a b-tch or some other derogatory term. There's no way to win people's approval, all you can do is learn to express emotion in a way you feel comfortable with and ignore the critical voices.

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Aspects to passive aggressiveness;

posted December 16, 2014 01:28 AM            

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Originally posted by Solar_Leo_Queen:
Libra and cancer mars?

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HAH! My S.O. and I both have this - he has Libra Mars, I have Cancer Mars. And even with Mars-Pluto, I am still quite passive aggressive at times, and I prefer to disappear and go 'underground' [Pluto influence combined with Mars opp. Neptune]. So does he! He is a Scorpio Sun and he plays the 'mediator' and holds his anger inside even when he wants to express it because he's been forced to be peacekeeper in many different situations.

posted December 16, 2014 07:06 AM            

I don't know how passive aggressive comes across to people, what they see as passive aggressive behaviour. Surely it is something that is shaped by their experiences with people who display this behaviour.

Being a Libran Mars myself, I am in no way shape or form passive aggressive. I straight up tell you if I am unhappy or annoyed with you about something. If you do something I disagree with, I'm going to let you know. You drop rubbish on the ground, I'm going to let you know. Nor am I indecisive about most things.

Now if you were to take the bigger picture, Mars, Mercury, and Moon, their signs, houses, and aspects. You might be able to draw some better conclusions. I think Mercury would be a far better indicator of passive aggressiveness, as it has more responsibility for communication.
I am also unsure if Cardinal signs would be passive aggressive, that tends to go against the idea that Cardinal signs are action signs, doers.

Expressing yourself is never wrong, the way in which you feel comfortable doing so, may upset others. A world full of confrontational people may not be better. For me, passive aggressive behaviour is having a problem and not telling the person about it. Iif it were me, I would ask you, if there is something you'd like to tell me, or talk about. There is your chance, if you say no. There is nothing I can do, don't lie about being okay, then bring it back up later. If you need some time, just say, "I need some time to think about it." Or similar. I don't mind waiting until you're ready.
If you have an issue about something, either let whomever know, or decide that you can deal with it. Don't let it eat you away and influence your unconcious, or concious decisions and actions.

posted December 16, 2014 07:19 AM            

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I've witnessed it in all 12.
To some extent we all are somewhat passive, we have to be at times.

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posted December 16, 2014 07:24 AM              

Hm....I'm not sure about Mars in Libra - Mars in Libra needs to decide whether to be confrontational or not, their conflicts are always well-thought and motivated,they don't start a conflict on a whim, but when they decide to fight, you'll know it, it's pretty obvious and direct and it's not a tantrum, it's a crusade lol That's different from being passive-aggressive. It's a "military" Mars: strategy and fight.

posted December 16, 2014 09:44 AM              

I'm not sure pouting or silence treatments or directly telling someone you think he's guilty of something are part of passive aggressiveness, at least not the way I see it, because they seem like "rather" direct and upfront defensive tactics and many times they are, in fact, invitations for the other to make amends.

Passive aggressiveness should be a form of aggression rather than a form of defense. It involves being aggressive to others in an indirect way, many times the person is not even aware of, they don't do it on purpose. It doesn't imply a defensive reaction.

of course, there's also deliberate passive aggressiveness, as tactics to neutralize an adversary, but this is "faked" so to speak, it implies a deliberate choice.

I am a silent treatment practitioner lol sometimes, but for me it reflects a genuine extreme emotional state in which I simply have nothing more to say to that person, they don't exist for me anymore, and it happened only when I felt really really hurt. I don't consider this passive aggressiveness because it reflects a genuine acute feeling, it's very direct, blunt and radical, it is a defensive reaction and it is very blunt, genuine an radical as a defensive reaction. The other knew perfectly well why they got this treatment in all cases.

I think how people react when hurt and their aggression style are a bit different. Mars probably tells us a lot about how someone exercises their level of aggression, the Moon most likely speaks of our defensive reactions in the face of what we perceive as aggression.

I did notice however a connection between Moon/Pluto and passive aggressiveness, apart from the Mars aspects/placements.

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posted December 16, 2014 09:56 AM              

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posted December 16, 2014 10:00 AM            

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I am unsure why people ascribe personality traits to a specific planet in a specific sign.
Saying all Libra and Cancer Mars are passive aggressive, saying all Pisces Moons are passive aggressive. You're essentially labeling a huge group of people.

I don't know how passive aggressive comes across to people, what they see as passive aggressive behaviour. Surely it is something that is shaped by their experiences with people who display this behaviour.

Being a Libran Mars myself, I am in no way shape or form passive aggressive. I straight up tell you if I am unhappy or annoyed with you about something. If you do something I disagree with, I'm going to let you know. You drop rubbish on the ground, I'm going to let you know. Nor am I indecisive about most things.

Now if you were to take the bigger picture, Mars, Mercury, and Moon, their signs, houses, and aspects. You might be able to draw some better conclusions. I think Mercury would be a far better indicator of passive aggressiveness, as it has more responsibility for communication.
I am also unsure if Cardinal signs would be passive aggressive, that tends to go against the idea that Cardinal signs are action signs, doers.

Expressing yourself is never wrong, the way in which you feel comfortable doing so, may upset others. A world full of confrontational people may not be better. For me, passive aggressive behaviour is having a problem and not telling the person about it. Iif it were me, I would ask you, if there is something you'd like to tell me, or talk about. There is your chance, if you say no. There is nothing I can do, don't lie about being okay, then bring it back up later. If you need some time, just say, "I need some time to think about it." Or similar. I don't mind waiting until you're ready.
If you have an issue about something, either let whomever know, or decide that you can deal with it. Don't let it eat you away and influence your unconcious, or concious decisions and actions.

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I like this overall and think you make an especially good point about Mercury. I just wanted to say that while I thought about describing the Cardinal qualities of Libra (and why it's often mistaken for something else) I didn't for two reasons, one being that other placements matter (and I also took this to what put the INCLINATION into the chart BEFORE anything else was considered that could alter it) and that Mars is a planet of action while Libra hesitates which can lead to "holding it in" that comes out as passive aggressive actions by someone else trying to force a response from the increasingly cranky Libra who just wants time to sort it out internally first (which technically is being passive aggressive, though it would typically be provoked by someone else wanting a confrontation before the Libra Mars was certain how to proceed as opposed to holding a grudge and other factors in the chart would still factor in of course).

I added the Pisces Moon for my cousin because many here believe that to be a "weak" placement, and he's an example of it not being so...he's definitely a Pisces moon (this is a guy who believes fairies are critters that can be physically touched when the barriers between worlds are thin and he has a psychic spark to him, not that anyone would mistake him for a new ager--in fact, I believe he'd consider new agers who regularly flee negative vibes rather than deal with them and require endless supplements, crystals, and/or counseling to function, etc, to be the weak ones) but he is neither weak nor passive.

posted December 16, 2014 01:11 PM              

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Originally posted by Vajra:

I should perhaps add I may be biased in my perception because I got an overdose of these tactics, have some horrid memories of high school girl drama, where the social pecking order was defended with such guilt-tripping plus some of the stuff you mentioned such as gossiping behind people's backs while lying to their face, snatching away people's friends by destroying people's reputation on purpose, etc. It was a never-ending circus of tearful drama I was all too glad to escape.

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posted December 16, 2014 01:25 PM              

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Really? Any kind of humor, or just the telling of certain kinds of jokes? Just asking because I never heard this before…according to this theory, isn't there a kind of benign humor / joking that makes everyone present feel good? Just genuinely puzzled because I've always seen humor as stress relief or positive dealing with problems rather than as a form of aggressiveness… if it's not directed against other people, at least.

As an aside, something which may be unrelated to what you mean, but what I always marvel at, are the cultural differences concerning humor. Take East Asia, where irony is traditionally not understood, there it's an alien concept of humor. This means if you say something in an ironic sense, people would typically take what you say verbatim and be very puzzled (maybe globalization will change this soon enough but it used to be like that).

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There are many interesting writings about humor and its various dimensions (stress relief, social dominance, neutralizing a feared stimulus, bonding etc.), I tried to find one that contains something about passive-aggressiveness, but I'm not sure they mention it lol a very interesting article nevertheless:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/humor/

Sexist and racist jokes are a form of passive aggressiveness (unconsciously dissimulated aggression) and you will sometimes notice those who tell them with this uncoscious purpose will be inspired to do so in the presence of other people who somehow remind them of such a "target" (e.g. an unavailable attractive woman or man, or, another ex. someone with a different - minoritary - sexual orientation is present, the "joker" tells a racist joke etc.)

posted December 16, 2014 02:22 PM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
[QUOTE]
Aspects to passive aggressiveness;

Moon-Pluto opposite
Moon-Mars opposite
Venus-Pluto opposite
Venus-Mars opposite
Mars-Neptune opposite
Mars in Libra
Mars in Taurus
Mars in Cancer.
Mars in Pisces.
Pluto in 12th house
Mars in 12th house
Moon in Aries 12th house
Moon in Scorpio 12th house
Moon in Capricorn 12th house

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Guilty as charged! I have three of those.

However, I will say that I agree with CallaRosa in that it is also a cultural thing. I live in a country that is culturally passive aggressive.

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Originally posted by DaniPepper87:
The most passive agressive: Mars in Libra in the 12th.... Talking about myself!! lol

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