posted December 26, 2014 07:39 AM            

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
What placement would make someone want to be always "right" and also want everyone to be like them and can not tolerate differences especially someone with Gemini Sun ?

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It's possible my acquaintances are unusual, but so far hardly anyone I've met seems to be able to "agree to disagree" without taking it personal at least to some degree, no matter their sun sign. In fact, when thinking back, only four people come to mind who have consistently shown the ability to get in a heated debate over some point with someone and not have it detract from their relationship with the other person. All are men: a Scorpio Sun with Aqua Moon (unknown AC), an Aries Sun with Cancer Moon, a Leo Sun with Aries Moon and a Virgo Sun with either Cappy or Aqua Moon. I don't know the birthtimes of any of them.

posted December 26, 2014 07:55 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

But fire and water...that energy tends to take any sort of disagreement as a personal attack, and I've noticed they're much more likely to debate by attacking the person rather than the idea or opinion (and also feeling personally attacked if anyone criticizes or even questions an idea or opinion).

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OK, I have Aries Moon and Scorpio Sun maybe this might have been the case previously and I have learnt out of it.

posted December 26, 2014 08:19 AM            

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
What placement would make someone want to be always "right" and also want everyone to be like them and can not tolerate differences especially someone with Gemini Sun ?

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posted December 26, 2014 08:31 AM            

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Originally posted by Astra:
Taurus moon

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posted December 26, 2014 09:24 AM              

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
Let me steer back conversation what I meant with an example.

I think I understand people wanting to be right and validated. However people wanting to control other people's life by being right or second guessing to me is not letting somebody live their life or giving them space to grow.I am talking especially with family members and I must say mostly they all are cap moon.

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Aha! My parents are like this. Maybe because there's a lot of Aqua in me but I do think Scorpio/Pluto can come off like that. My mom has Sun and Mercury in Scorpio with a Cancer Moon, dad has Scorpio Moon square Pluto I think? But I think what you're talking about is probably uncultivated Scorpio/Pluto.

posted December 26, 2014 09:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:

Since you asked for experiences with Gemini Suns - well, I did have a curious experience with a Gemini Sun man once - at the time we were dating and one day, we had dinner at his place and casually discussed what we'd read in the news, and I mentioned something unflattering about the then pope (Benedict). My host was so offended about the fact that I didn't appreciate the pope (he was a Lutheran but secretly into Catholicism, which I had no way of knowing since he hadn't told me) that he refused to speak to me the entire night. Only on the next day did he manage to get out of this state. And it's not like I blasted the Pope as a person or anything, I just pointed out that as a woman, I found the Vatican's views on sexuality hypocritical and counterproductive. I should perhaps add that this Gemini man was very much into casual sex, had never been married, did not want to have children, ever, and thus used contraception on a regular basis. Anyway, this is meant only as an example, not saying all Geminis would react like that (he had an Aries Moon BTW), but it sure was an interesting experience.

I could think of different reasons for this need to "be right" or to be agreed with. One would be insecurity, wanting to receive another's validation for one's viewpoints. Another would be exaggerated self-respect coupled with disregard for other people's thoughts. Yet another could be a pronounced dislike for disagreement/ a longing for social harmony, where any kind of discussion is perceived as a disturbance of the peace. There are possibly even more reasons. Thus, very different causes IMO can lead to an inability to have a heated but non-personal discussion about a casual topic, and a multitude of chart factors could indicate this. But, apart from an innate ability to be tolerant when there is disagreement in some people, I do believe most people could learn to fight more constructively if they really wanted to, at least to some degree, no matter what the chart shows.

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posted December 26, 2014 10:28 AM            

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
Let me steer back conversation what I meant with an example.

I think I understand people wanting to be right and validated. However people wanting to control other people's life by being right or second guessing to me is not letting somebody live their life or giving them space to grow.I am talking especially with family members and I must say mostly they all are cap moon.

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Aquarius. Aquarius is ruled by Uranus of course, controls and controlling are his territory. So I'd say look at their 11th house, how their Uranus is doing.

posted December 26, 2014 02:41 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:
It's possible my acquaintances are unusual, but so far hardly anyone I've met seems to be able to "agree to disagree" without taking it personal at least to some degree, no matter their sun sign. In fact, when thinking back, only four people come to mind who have consistently shown the ability to get in a heated debate over some point with someone and not have it detract from their relationship with the other person. All are men: a Scorpio Sun with Aqua Moon (unknown AC), an Aries Sun with Cancer Moon, a Leo Sun with Aries Moon and a Virgo Sun with either Cappy or Aqua Moon. I don't know the birthtimes of any of them.

Since you asked for experiences with Gemini Suns - well, I did have a curious experience with a Gemini Sun man once - at the time we were dating and one day, we had dinner at his place and casually discussed what we'd read in the news, and I mentioned something unflattering about the then pope (Benedict). My host was so offended about the fact that I didn't appreciate the pope (he was a Lutheran but secretly into Catholicism, which I had no way of knowing since he hadn't told me) that he refused to speak to me the entire night. Only on the next day did he manage to get out of this state. And it's not like I blasted the Pope as a person or anything, I just pointed out that as a woman, I found the Vatican's views on sexuality hypocritical and counterproductive. I should perhaps add that this Gemini man was very much into casual sex, had never been married, did not want to have children, ever, and thus used contraception on a regular basis. Anyway, this is meant only as an example, not saying all Geminis would react like that (he had an Aries Moon BTW), but it sure was an interesting experience.

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The way i see it: you probbaly went against his core beliefs - against the image he upholds related to that character (the Pope). Which, wouldn't be that much of a problem if you were some stranger - but since he let you in - he probbaly felt like he misjudged you at that point (deeply) and couldn't cope with this new image of you that disses the Pope. For example - let's say you have a deep respect for some female character - and you meet some guy which you liked and trusted enough to let him in (a temporary pass if you will - a trial to get to know each-other better) - and, while that female character came up on TV - he starts dissing her image and what she represents - portraying her like some showbiz ***** . Not sure how that would sit with you - but some people seem to react just like that - when their core beliefs are challenged. I'd take it - you discussed his believes in the early stages of dating him - at a time when he didn't felt comfortable enough to share his core/secret spiritual beliefs with you. And since this subject didn't came up latter - when things got more personal/intimate - you both - took each-other by surprise - with that Pope incident.

I am a Gemini with Aries Moon BTW. Hahaha!
Though, my core believes are changeable in the light of new evidence or a philosophy that makes more sense. So, i doubt that any public figure could trigger that type reaction. I'm interested in the truth - or whatever comes closer to that. Even more than that - i encourage people to challenge my beliefs and right back at them. And if they can prove me wrong - that's actually great. Even though - it sux that i was wrong, it would suck even more - if i'd keep on being wrong - while others have answers which make more sense and can lead to a better understanding - thus, enriching my world and experience.

What could make me react like that? To be honest, someone like that guy. Someone who expects me to support their truth without questions (yuck!). This type of people are usually manipulative and act the same when it comes to their lies - "don't trust the evidence - trust my words (double yuck)". As far as I'm concern - in that type of relationship (of any kind) - there's room only for oppression and lies enforced through manipulation tactics. Tully sick people. It's kinda hard to believe that there are people in this world that can stand them - yet, apparently - there are - in a someone for everyone - type of way. After all, it's a big world. And, there's still a lot of people who have a price.

posted December 26, 2014 02:55 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra

I could think of different reasons for this need to "be right" or to be agreed with. One would be insecurity, wanting to receive another's validation for one's viewpoints. Another would be exaggerated self-respect coupled with disregard for other people's thoughts. Yet another could be a pronounced dislike for disagreement/ a longing for social harmony, where any kind of discussion is perceived as a disturbance of the peace. There are possibly even more reasons. Thus, very different causes IMO can lead to an inability to have a heated but non-personal discussion about a casual topic, and a multitude of chart factors could indicate this. But, apart from an innate ability to be tolerant when there is disagreement in some people, I do believe most people could learn to fight more constructively if they really wanted to, at least to some degree, no matter what the chart shows[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
Let me steer back conversation what I meant with an example.

I think I understand people wanting to be right and validated. However people wanting to control other people's life by being right or second guessing to me is not letting somebody live their life or giving them space to grow.I am talking especially with family members and I must say mostly they all are cap moon.

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Hmm, some of the symptoms mentioned above are specific to a certain mental disorder, as in - Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Though, one or two symptoms are not enough to identify a person with NPD - so here's a list that covers the full spectrum of NPC (a full blown narcissist - as one would put it):

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A person with narcissistic personality disorder may:

React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
Have excessive feelings of self-importance
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
Need constant attention and admiration
Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy
Have obsessive self-interest
Pursue mainly selfish goals

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Or you could try this video, should give you a clearer perspective:

Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorder

That's the easiest and most accurate way to identify an individual with NPD. Cause as far as astrology goes - you'll find people with NPD - from all signs with few or no common aspects.

As can be seen in all testimonials (not most but "all") - from people who used to be in a relationship or studied/dealt with this behaviour at a professional level - "there's no room for constructive criticism with this type of people". As most victims of their abuse keep saying: there's just one option - distance yourself as far as possible (run for the hills - as some would put it), or else you're prone to a draining experience filled with lies and constant emotional abuse.

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZVpMxgYfus - and there's more where that came from. Look it up.

Gtg... Happy holidays!

posted December 27, 2014 01:03 AM            

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Exactly!

I have Moon trine Uranus and one thing it said was being intolerant to people who couldn't be open minded towards others.
One example is that whether someone is in power or working fast food. We're all people. We all have so much to offer and are so much deeper than that. I can't tolerate people who are so shallow to judge others based on such things. It goes well beyond all that, like people's personal styles, etc. It just grinds my gears when others judge for that stuff.

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Well, what do you know- I have Uranus sextile Moon! ITA. I have a similar story to what you are describing, but I don't want to go OT.

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Originally posted by PisceanDream:
I think I have noticed such behavior on people who have Air stelliums, heavy Air influence with little to no Earth, uncultivated Uranus hard aspects, uncultivated Saturn hard aspects, and even uncultivated Plutonian energy (wanting to be in power and control, being wrong would hinder that). Actually, the argument can be made about a heavy influence of all elements, however I think it most pronounced in Air simply because their mode of operation is particularly inclined to opine and intellectualize.

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I mostly agree with this, but Fire and Water strike me as more of an indicator. Air can be problematic, no doubt if the chart and aspects support it. But when there is little earth, there is no stability or grounding basis for what the person is saying. Oftentimes the arguments do not have substantial backing and can be driven by emotions without any logic, particularly if there is a considerable amount of water in the chart. Definitely the Pluto, Saturn, and Uranus hard aspects can contribute to this.

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I wouldn't say air stelliums because I think air is the most able of all the elements to see a difference between an idea and a person. That is, argue an air person and they're the most able to stick to the topic rather than going after the person or feeling attacked because their views have been challenged somehow. Furthermore, debates and such can be fun and mentally stimulating to air signs, something that is very difficult for others to understand who confuse ideas with identity. Air signs can even find it fascinating to change their views or their ways as they feel it gives them a greater understand to grow, adapt, and evolve that way.

Earth also tends to be pretty good about this, the difference roughly being that they're less likely to care than an air sign but at the same time they're not inclined to find things like debating fun and stimulating...which means that they can be more tolerant than an air sign because they'll overlook a lot when they think it doesn't matter to himself personally as it's no skin off his butt yet at the same time they can be like a brick wall depending on the sitch that brooks no dissent or variation and often find "mental masturbation" that has no immediate practical use to be pointless at best and thus annoyed when Air (or anyone else) tries to engage in it.

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Good points! I think Earth heavy people with good aspects tend to be very patient as well, and are less likely to react or care that someone has a different viewpoint. Fire and water when badly aspected I've experienced will attack the person instead of the issue at hand, so ITA with that.

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
What could make me react like that? To be honest, someone like that guy. Someone who expects me to support their truth without questions (yuck!). This type of people are usually manipulative and act the same when it comes to their lies - "don't trust the evidence - trust my words (double yuck)". As far as I'm concern - in that type of relationship (of any kind) - there's room only for oppression and lies enforced through manipulation tactics. Tully sick people. It's kinda hard to believe that there are people in this world that can stand them - yet, apparently - there are - in a someone for everyone - type of way. After all, it's a big world. And, there's still a lot of people who have a price.

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Great posts as always, 7th! NPD could certainly be at play when dealing with this issue.

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Originally posted by 4lifephrases:
Let me steer back conversation what I meant with an example.
I think I understand people wanting to be right and validated. However people wanting to control other people's life by being right or second guessing to me is not letting somebody live their life or giving them space to grow.I am talking especially with family members and I must say mostly they all are cap moon.

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I would imagine hard Pluto aspects would bring this out. Hard Mars aspects as well, especially if it is afflicted. This does not strike me as Air at all. Especially the controlling part. Unless afflicted with Pluto or Mars harsh aspects, air is too detached to care to control someone's life. Air cares about flexibility, equality, curiosity to learn as much as possible, and experiencing life through many prisms.

posted December 27, 2014 10:08 PM            

Virgo Sun
Leo Asc & Mercury (conjunct)
Mercury conjunct Saturn (in Virgo), making it even more serious to me.
Sun sextile Uranus
Mars in H3 (communication)
Mars conjunct Pluto

All of that said, I am rarely wrong, and when I am, I can admit it (though it's NOT easy).

So how am I usually right? I do extensive fact checking before I open my mouth. Once I know I am being accurate, I will keep going until the other person acknowledges I am right because if I enter the argument, I know am right.

Some people can't handle that, and I do lose "friends" which is okay with me. Not because I am uncaring but because if they are that stubborn that they cannot admit when they are wrong, I am uninterested.

Oddly, close-mindedness and stubborn traits **** me off (especially in Taurus men). *lol*

posted December 27, 2014 10:23 PM            

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
^ You took the words right out of my mouth. Great post.

I have Sun/Mercury, Moon/Mercury and Mercury/Asc conjuncts as well and am the same way. I feel my Mars squares and Saturn trines are what prevent me from being this way. The only times that I differ are when people are cruel, nasty and mock my opinion, which seems to happen a lot for me with some here. I will not tolerate disrespect.

My hubby's a Leo with Gem moon and is ALWAYS right even when proved that he was in fact wrong. But it's why I love his crazy arse.

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Thank you Barbie!

Leos can be very captivating that way. I agree!

posted December 28, 2014 07:48 PM            

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:

What could make me react like that? To be honest, someone like that guy. Someone who expects me to support their truth without questions (yuck!). This type of people are usually manipulative and act the same when it comes to their lies - "don't trust the evidence - trust my words (double yuck)". As far as I'm concern - in that type of relationship (of any kind) - there's room only for oppression and lies enforced through manipulation tactics. Tully sick people. It's kinda hard to believe that there are people in this world that can stand them - yet, apparently - there are - in a someone for everyone - type of way. After all, it's a big world. And, there's still a lot of people who have a price.

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I can understand what you are saying however
I think there isn't always evidence available to show and sometimes some decisions are very intuitive.

Once again what is MY Truth wouldn't be your Truth or your way of living or doing. I do not think it is oppression or lie but a personal choice.

Not every"Why?" has an answer.Sometimes you just have to have faith on things.

Do you believe in God / Religion because it doesn't make sense to your logical brain ?

posted December 28, 2014 08:48 PM            

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Originally posted by YellowGerbera:
Thank you Barbie!

Leos can be very captivating that way. I agree!

Aww I'm sorry about your experience on the forum...

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They are! I love Leos!