posted February 01, 2015 12:08 AM            

Googled and taken from Astrotheme. If we are to say that a fall planet is more susceptible to Narcissism, then we should look at all the planets. We can definitely say that any individual with a planet in fall will struggle with the energies and psychological imbalance, however I don't know that we can say it will point to narcissism.

Also, as others have mentioned, lack of water may be true that they are not as empathic as others but lack of empathy is not the same as lack of feelings. Their feelings are just processed differently but it's not a lack. Also, lack of empathy does not correlate with lack of integrity, fairness or understanding of how to behave in society. Which is why I return again to saying narcissism is a distortion of reality, self and others and not necessarily caused by signs or planets per se.

posted February 01, 2015 12:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SDragon:
The Sun (fall in Libra)
The Moon (fall in Scorpio)
Mercury (fall in Pisces)
Venus (fall in Virgo)
Mars (fall in Cancer)
Jupiter (fall in Capricorn)
Saturn (fall in Aries)
Uranus (fall in Taurus)
Neptune (fall in Aquarius (or in Capricorn, depending on authors)
Pluto (fall in Libra (or in Virgo, depending on authors)

Googled and taken from Astrotheme. If we are to say that a fall planet is more susceptible to Narcissism, then we should look at all the planets. We can definitely say that any individual with a planet in fall will struggle with the energies and psychological imbalance, however I don't know that we can say it will point to narcissism.

Also, as others have mentioned, lack of water may be true that they are not as empathic as others but lack of empathy is not the same as lack of feelings. Their feelings are just processed differently but it's not a lack. Also, lack of empathy does not correlate with lack of integrity, fairness or understanding of how to behave in society. Which is why I return again to saying narcissism is a distortion of reality, self and others and not necessarily caused by signs or planets per se.

Not trying to poke holes or anything, just being careful about possible generalizations.

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Yeah, I agree with Scorpio Moon, I was so confused by Libra Moon being discussed as in fall because Taurus Moon is exalted, so it would only make sense its opposite sign is in fall. I've never seen Scorpio Moon not referred to as in fall.

posted February 01, 2015 07:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Their is an asteroid by that name...37117 Narcissus

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Interesting enough, this does not seem to bode for Narcissism. I have noted it conj the Sun, ASC and Nn and it gives ego strength ime

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posted February 01, 2015 07:52 AM            

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posted February 01, 2015 08:00 AM            

I 100% don't agree. I have seen people born with it.

I would go so far to put forth the working theory that one would HAVE to be born with a predisposition for it but I have not done enough charts on this subject to make it more than a working theory.

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posted February 01, 2015 09:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tgem:
My ex-husband had strong narcissism in his personality, which ultimately led to our divorce (and a nasty one at that.)

I do believe he developed some of these tendencies from his mother (she definitley had the same narcisstic traits) but I don't have her birth chart. I do have his, though, and these are the signs in his chart that support narcissism:
1. Water is the lowest % in his chart
2. Only water planet is mars which is in fall in Cancer and Rx
3. Aquarius is the strongest in his chart and Libra is the 2nd strongest.
4. He has a Sag moon but it is in his 7th (strong Libra influence)
5. Icing on the cake: his ASC sits on top of Fixed Star Algol (he was RUTHLESS during our divorce..left me penniless, starving and practically homeless.)

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Damn.... I only have MC and Uranus in water. LOL It's my lowest %, but essentially tied with Air.

posted February 01, 2015 09:04 AM            

The person I think was born with Narc is an Aqua Sun, too.

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posted February 01, 2015 09:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Damn.... I only have MC and Uranus in water. LOL It's my lowest %, but essentially tied with Air.

Anyway, I really posted to say that speaking of his mother and all. For some reason I kept thinking about upbringing having a big role in it.
So maybe IC and IC ruler also???

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posted February 01, 2015 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
GREAT post, T gem

The person I think was born with Narc is an Aqua Sun, too.

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posted February 01, 2015 09:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Interesting enough, this does not seem to bode for Narcissism. I have noted it conj the Sun, ASC and Nn and it gives ego strength ime

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posted February 01, 2015 10:07 AM            

You have an Unaspected Moon. I don't think you could BE a Narc with this. I have Cancer moon conj the MC with one wide trine to Saturn and I don't think I could be.

I think some placements have too much empathy to ever be a Narc and these are two of them, no matter how much abuse we had.

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posted February 01, 2015 10:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b] Narcissism is something that I think comes from abuse rather than something one is born with but I'm not sure how to put it yet, nor what part astrology may play in the process.

I 100% don't agree. I have seen people born with it.

I would go so far to put forth the working theory that one would HAVE to be born with a predisposition for it but I have not done enough charts on this subject to make it more than a working theory.

[/B]

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Based on my previous posts, when I state that I don't believe signs, planets and aspects tie into narcissism, it shouldn't be interpreted as they don't create predispositions. It means that all signs, planets and aspects can support narcissistic traits when their energy gets distorted. As most astrologers know, both the inner and outer planets can easily create the distortion or 'abuse' required to create the predisposition.

Sun - Moon - Mercury - Mars - Venus
Jupiter - Saturn - Neptune - Uranus - Pluto

Now let's look at upbringing. As some know, I've been reading up on Narcissism for the past 3-4 months and definitely don't proclaim to be an expert, but my research stemmed from an understanding of my mom's own narcissistic personality and the impact that it has had on me as an individual. As a child confronted with the characteristics of NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder, whether they are NPD or not), the child has really only two options, become a narcissistic themselves because it's the only behavior they know, or become a codependent, ie. a people pleaser, hiding their true self because they believe there's a 'love' that their narcissistic parent can provide. Eventually they need to break away from the distorted version of love to heal themselves and provide the real love they were never given as children. In doing so, full unconditional acceptance of self allows for acceptance of others and the masks drop - authenticity and the true self emerge. But let's go back to that distorted version of love. In being unable to realize that it is a distorted version of love as a child, the defense mechanism (false self) must build the self around something and that something usually is any planet that can satisfy the ego or narcissistic self image required against the fragile landscape that is their inner self.

Sun may become overbearing themselves, reacting nastily
Moon may become overly sensitive or turn cold
Mercury may become scathing, spiteful and gaslighting
Mars may become vengeful, physical and bullying
Venus may become vain, jealous and controlling

I'll leave the outer planets alone because their planetary distortions usually occur through their aspects to personal planets. Everyone knows about Moon-Pluto, Venus-Saturn, Mercury-Neptune, Mars-Uranus, etc, but I will say that any personal/outer planet aspect can be distorted into a narcissistic pattern.

posted February 01, 2015 10:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tgem:
Yes, DF, that's a good observation. His IC ruler is the sun. His mother was a Scorpio sun and I'm almost positive a Leo ASC. He also had Saturn Rx in his 4th house.
BTW..for the record, her and I DID NOT get along and I can get along with just about anybody...I have a lot of water in my chart.

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That would make him Taurus Asc most likey, correct?

How funny is it that there's a thread going on called, "Are Taurus AC's superficial and really caught up in appearances?"
(right below this thread as I post this)

posted February 01, 2015 01:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
That would make him Taurus Asc most likey, correct?

How funny is it that there's a thread going on called, "Are Taurus AC's superficial and really caught up in appearances?"
(right below this thread as I post this)

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posted February 01, 2015 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by tgem:
Yep, absolutely..right on Fixed Star Algol

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posted February 01, 2015 01:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Ami, with how many Libra mooners have you had a bad experience?

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Three with whom I was quite close.

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posted February 01, 2015 02:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Gabby

You have an Unaspected Moon. I don't think you could BE a Narc with this. I have Cancer moon conj the MC with one wide trine to Saturn and I don't think I could be.

I think some placements have too much empathy to ever be a Narc and these are two of them, no matter how much abuse we had.

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posted February 01, 2015 02:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Three with whom I was quite close.

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posted February 01, 2015 03:35 PM            

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posted February 01, 2015 03:36 PM            

Libra Moon does not seem to be loyal and to a Cancer Moon, that is a really big thing lol

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