posted March 16, 2015 10:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Generally speaking, introverts recharge their batteries through alone time.

---

posted March 16, 2015 10:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Generally speaking, introverts recharge their batteries through alone time.

---

posted March 16, 2015 10:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astrohippiegirl:
Also thanks guys for the great responses, its nice to meet others who know the 12th house energy and help me understan it

---

Your welcome! Thanks for giving us the opportunity by asking!

posted March 17, 2015 09:39 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Definition: Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

When introverts want to be alone, it is not, by itself, a sign of depression. It means that they either need to regain their energy from being around people or that they simply want the time to be with their own thoughts. Being with people, even people they like and are comfortable with, can prevent them from their desire to be quietly introspective.

Being introspective, though, does not mean that an introvert never has conversations. However, those conversations are generally about ideas and concepts, not about what they consider the trivial matters of social small talk.

---

posted March 17, 2015 04:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
While I certainly do not disagree.
I'm Libra asc, Leo sun, Gemini moon and I'm introverted. Actually quite a lot!!
Based on those it doesn't make sense.

I have mercury, Venus, mars in 12th Virgo. So if the 12th isn't causing it then is it simply Virgo?

---

I don't know your chart. Many people's Ascendants are wrongly located. Generally a Libra/Leo combo with Moon in Gemini that is very introverted will have planetary aspects to the Asc (or Moon) in longitude or declination that change the usual dynamic -- or -- will actually be Virgo rising. It is quite common that many people's charts find the accurate Asc in the preceding sign.

Aquaguy91, I am hardwired as a Virgo rising introvert, so my statement is based on that and on my 20 years of astrology study and rectification work. While I understand the association of the 12th house with what could be termed spiritual/psychological space or subconscious processing, this has been overblown. Planets or a conjunction in the 12th house do not alone make someone an introvert.

Astrologers can't have it both ways. Modern astrology has put forth two opposing ideas:

1.) That planet positions weighted above the horizon create a more outgoing person, a more extroverted personality.
2.) That planets in the 12th create an introverted personality or one who tends to isolation as a lifestyle, in spite of the fact that the 12th house is above the horizon. This stresses the understanding of the horizon and what it means energetically and metaphorically to a breaking point.

The fact that you can find many, many people who are public personalities and very outward in their orientation who have 12th house planet concentrations completely defies this reductionist view of the 12th house.

The undeniable fact is that the Sun and all planets in the 12th house of a birth horoscope are above the horizon, their light (mostly) visible and rising into full view.

This is an objective outward position in which one's energies are transferring personal, developed subjectively owned strengths (1st house) into the public / outer sphere (possibly from past life development). However, this does not itself create 'extroversion' either.

Take the definition of introversion by Barbiegirl19 ...

a shy person.
Psychology . a person characterized by concern primarily with his or her own thoughts and feelings (opposed to extrovert ).

Your own definition agrees. "Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind." Forget "shy." Its a one-word perception inserted by a superficial extroverted glance.

This is an internalized personality that processes and understands subjectively in order to keep energies focused and in balance. An extrovert is an externalized one, moving energies by focusing and acting outwardly, generally recharging by social interaction.

There are balanced personalities which can achieve both and cannot be strictly categorized as introverted or extroverted.

This relates to general orientation of personality which relates astrologically mostly to:
a) the correct sign on the Asc; many people's birth charts do not show their correct Asc sign for a variety of reasons.
b) aspects to the Asc.
c) contents of the 1st house, including interception or planets in the following sign.
d) internal life as indicated by the Moon's condition by sign/aspects.
e) external life as indicated by the Sun's condition by sign/aspects.

posted March 17, 2015 04:37 PM            

With astrology we can address only birth chart set points, and possible effects of transits/progressions of planets into the 12th.

posted March 17, 2015 07:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
I don't know your chart. Many people's Ascendants are wrongly located. Generally a Libra/Leo combo with Moon in Gemini that is very introverted will have planetary aspects to the Asc (or Moon) in longitude or declination that change the usual dynamic -- or -- will actually be Virgo rising. It is quite common that many people's charts find the accurate Asc in the preceding sign.

Aquaguy91, I am hardwired as a Virgo rising introvert, so my statement is based on that and on my 20 years of astrology study and rectification work. While I understand the association of the 12th house with what could be termed spiritual/psychological space or subconscious processing, this has been overblown. Planets or a conjunction in the 12th house do not alone make someone an introvert.

Astrologers can't have it both ways. Modern astrology has put forth two opposing ideas:

1.) That planet positions weighted above the horizon create a more outgoing person, a more extroverted personality.
2.) That planets in the 12th create an introverted personality or one who tends to isolation as a lifestyle, in spite of the fact that the 12th house is above the horizon. This stresses the understanding of the horizon and what it means energetically and metaphorically to a breaking point.

The fact that you can find many, many people who are public personalities and very outward in their orientation who have 12th house planet concentrations completely defies this reductionist view of the 12th house.

[b]The undeniable fact is that the Sun and all planets in the 12th house of a birth horoscope are above the horizon, their light (mostly) visible and rising into full view.

This is an objective outward position in which one's energies are transferring personal, developed subjectively owned strengths (1st house) into the public / outer sphere (possibly from past life development). However, this does not itself create 'extroversion' either.

Take the definition of introversion by Barbiegirl19 ...

a shy person.
Psychology . a person characterized by concern primarily with his or her own thoughts and feelings (opposed to extrovert ).

Your own definition agrees. "Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind." Forget "shy." Its a one-word perception inserted by a superficial extroverted glance.

This is an internalized personality that processes and understands subjectively in order to keep energies focused and in balance. An extrovert is an externalized one, moving energies by focusing and acting outwardly, generally recharging by social interaction.

There are balanced personalities which can achieve both and cannot be strictly categorized as introverted or extroverted.

This relates to general orientation of personality which relates astrologically mostly to:
a) the correct sign on the Asc; many people's birth charts do not show their correct Asc sign for a variety of reasons.
b) aspects to the Asc.
c) contents of the 1st house, including interception or planets in the following sign.
d) internal life as indicated by the Moon's condition by sign/aspects.
e) external life as indicated by the Sun's condition by sign/aspects.

[/B]

---

posted March 17, 2015 08:00 PM            

Introverted person are definitely not shy people, they just are happy with their own company, doing their own thing, being creative, whatever, without the need for constant social contact or outside stimulation or approval.

Some of the most famous creative and influential people (Beethoven, Van Gogh to name just two) could be regarded as loners because they were constantly focused on their art. It didn't make them socially inept. To that extent they were introverts.

posted March 17, 2015 08:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Definition: Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

When introverts want to be alone, it is not, by itself, a sign of depression. It means that they either need to regain their energy from being around people or that they simply want the time to be with their own thoughts. Being with people, even people they like and are comfortable with, can prevent them from their desire to be quietly introspective.

Being introspective, though, does not mean that an introvert never has conversations. However, those conversations are generally about ideas and concepts, not about what they consider the trivial matters of social small talk.

---

posted March 17, 2015 08:25 PM            

As for the question about it being a curse--I think of it as a gift. I have had dreams that came true. Call it acute psychic awareness or whatever, my instincts are on point lol And I have absolutely no fear of death.

posted March 17, 2015 09:03 PM            

shy
adj. shi·er (shī′ər), shi·est (shī′ĭst) or shy·er or shy·est
1. Easily startled; timid: a shy deer.
2.
a. Tending to avoid contact or familiarity with others; retiring or reserved: a shy student who stayed in the back of the room.
b. Characterized by reserve or diffidence: a shy glance.
3. Distrustful; wary: shy of strangers.
4. Not having a sufficient or specified amount, as of money: was shy $100 on his rent; was two victories shy of the school record.
intr.v. shied (shīd), shy·ing, shies (shīz)
1. To move suddenly or draw back, as if startled or afraid: The horse shied at the loud sound.
2. To avoid engaging in, treating, or discussing something: "a film adaptation that would not shy away from the novel's controversial themes" (Scot French).
n. pl. shies (shīz)
A sudden movement, as from fright; a start.

To be shy is NOT limited to being timid and/or nervous around other people. It boils down to being reserved, in which we can all agree, introverted persons are. So by definition an introvert is shy. An introvert is not going to be outgoing as that is the extrovert territory. An extrovert is an outgoing, overtly expressive person concerned with external things or objective considerations, introvert would be the opposite. Intro- "inward". Extra- "outside, beyond". To be outgoing (adjective) is to be friendly, socially confident something an introverted personality type is NOT. You're one or the other you can't mix and/or add things from an opposite and still be the same as that defeats the purpose, changes what it means to be ___....

Agree very much with Kannon's post!

posted March 17, 2015 11:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astrohippiegirl:
I never found out who my father is....sun in 12th house

---

posted March 18, 2015 04:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Some but not all of the many definitions of shy from an actual dictionary NOT some subjective, random article from the Internet.

[b]shy
adj. shi·er (shī′ər), shi·est (shī′ĭst) or shy·er or shy·est
1. Easily startled; timid: a shy deer.
2.
a. Tending to avoid contact or familiarity with others; retiring or reserved: a shy student who stayed in the back of the room.
b. Characterized by reserve or diffidence: a shy glance.
3. Distrustful; wary: shy of strangers.
4. Not having a sufficient or specified amount, as of money: was shy $100 on his rent; was two victories shy of the school record.
intr.v. shied (shīd), shy·ing, shies (shīz)
1. To move suddenly or draw back, as if startled or afraid: The horse shied at the loud sound.
2. To avoid engaging in, treating, or discussing something: "a film adaptation that would not shy away from the novel's controversial themes" (Scot French).
n. pl. shies (shīz)
A sudden movement, as from fright; a start.

To be shy is NOT limited to being timid and/or nervous around other people. It boils down to being reserved, in which we can all agree, introverted persons are. So by definition an introvert is shy. An introvert is not going to be outgoing as that is the extrovert territory. An extrovert is an outgoing, overtly expressive person concerned with external things or objective considerations, introvert would be the opposite. Intro- "inward". Extra- "outside, beyond". To be outgoing (adjective) is to be friendly, socially confident something an introverted personality type is NOT. You're one or the other you can't mix and/or add things from an opposite and still be the same as that defeats the purpose, changes what it means to be ___....

Agree very much with Kannon's post!

I'd say that I'm one example of a person with a stellium in the 12th that isn't introverted. We all need "recharging" after anything that exhausts us don't understand how that's remotely exclusive to introversion. It isn't, that's apart of being a person. [/B]

---

Introversion is a largely misunderstood concept, and definitions like the ones you have provided just perpetuate the confusion. As a person with a strong preference for introversion, I can relate to the definition of shyness in the sense of avoiding contact with others, but it's not because of a lack of confidence, or being easily startled or afraid which is the general connotation of the term. Case in point, my initial reaction is to avoid this post for the same reasons I avoid a lot of situations, and it's not because I'm shy. There are so many logical fallacies in this post (and lots of others) that I don't foresee resolve, and I just DO NOT have the energy for that. (If you think I'm contradicting myself, don't waste your time trying to understand it) The bottom line is, shyness is a poor choice of an adjective. In my introverted opinion, shyness and true introversion are two completely different things. In some cases, it's a pretty serious distinction - specifically when perceived introversion is a symptom of shyness or other deeper issues. These definitions need amending, and the lack of understanding proves it.

For your enjoyment: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/introverts-signs-am-i-introverted_n_3721431. html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/introvert-myths_n_3569058.html
http://conversation-skills-core.com/difference-between-introversion-and-shyness

posted March 18, 2015 01:57 PM            

I don't think this is silly. I really do believe what I wrote about perpetuating confusion, and shyness being a horrible state to associate with introversion. The OP is associating introversion with a curse, and this is the kind of message Barbie is reinforcing with those definitions. To an impressionable mind, it's poisoning. If you read this woman's experience ( http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts ) she says that these misunderstandings can lead some, including herself, to behave in a way that betrays who we really are. I can attest to that, and Its horrible. We're living in a society trying to classify introverted personalities - personalities like mine and yours - with a personality disorder. What I'm witnessing is Barbie's attempt to prover HER understanding of what introversion is, and completely disregard a deeper truth. Really, it's an honest human mistake. I'm not trying to judge or diminish her in any way. I'm just trynna get to the truth.

1) sheesh! Are you saying there's more?! I can only comment on what I see here.

3) Boy! I really don't wanna get deeper into this, but the PA behavior I observe isn't a result of the environment, or any of LL codes of conduct, but I will clarify. Let me fist say that I appreciate well meaning constructive criticism. Most true INTJ personalities like myself welcome the occasion for self-evaluation, so please understand that this is my attempt to share a quality I appreciate. I said that Barbie is PA in a way typical of libras. I recognize it because I've been guilty of it myself. One respected astrologer refers to this sort of behavior as "distorted harmony" which is a really good description of how Barbie behaves. Here's further explanation:

"To be fair, not all Libras deal with conflict in this way. Some are fully aware that their love of harmony can flip into the Shadow manifestation of denying open assertiveness. The Libra partner who is firing on all cylinders is a master at handling conflict, able to confront you (when necessary) in a rational, courteous manner. But the unaware Libra can be truly frustrating to deal with."

"her anger or resentment will leak out, even as she struggles to maintain the *facade of peace.* You’ll become the recipient of subtle, verbal jabs. Or the silent treatment."

"The Venus ruled Libra can be passive-aggressive for they tend to disown their anger. The Libra personality is other-focused seeing the virtues and faults of others over their own psychology. So, they can be into blaming the Other when things go bad in a relationship because they see themselves as nothing but sweetness and light. This sign has difficulty with the Shadow archetype. They don’t want to look at the dark underpinnings of love or society."

No matter how open to constructive criticism I can be, it's seldom easy to hear and digest, so let me leave you with the best part of these quotes:

"The Libra partner who is firing on all cylinders is a master at handling conflict, able to confront you (when necessary) in a rational, courteous manner."

posted March 18, 2015 02:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
For the record.

Stop misplacing your anger from your personal life or whatever it is that has you SO worked up out on me. Calm down.

---