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Author
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Topic: Neptune Aspects, the 12H and Experiences of the Spirit World
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peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 08:58 PM
  
There's been an interesting discussion on one thread with a couple of people about their experiences of the spirit world. I've wondered for some time now whether Saturn in the 12H indicates a fear of the spirit world. Both have this placement. One person indicated she has this fear, while the other person does not. The latter finds the spirit world intriguing and has had very positive experiences. My closest friend is very sensitive and can sense when spirits are present. She's often told me about her experiences, but they've largely been negative. She's also a very spiritual and evolved person. In contrast, my experiences of the spirit world have been with few exceptions positive, usually of a guiding or helpful nature. So, I regard the spirit world as benign. There have been a couple of negative incidents, but these were exceptions. So, what could account for the difference between my friend's experiences and mine and between the two people with 12H Saturns? Aside from astrology, I understand that what we human beings think, feel, imagine, speak and enact links us to spiritual forces, that we do this all the time whether we're aware of it or not. The nature of our thoughts, feelings, etc. determines what kind of forces we link to. So, one explanation is like attracts like, we attract what we are. Or, another possibility is we've had frightening or negative experiences or encounters in the past and that plays into the present on a subconscious level. Now, astrologically, what could account for the difference in our attitudes and experiences regarding the spirit world? My friend and one of the people both have Saturn-Neptune conjunctions. The other person can correct me if I'm wrong, but if recall correctly, she has Jupiter-Neptune in major aspect. I have Moon and Venus in the 12H square Neptune and Jupiter in Pisces. I realize this is just four examples, but my hypothesis at this time is that the two people have Saturn in the 12H, so that's not it, it's probably aspects. It may be that Saturn aspecting Neptune has a tendency to fear the unseen whereas Venus or Jupiter in the 12H or in aspect to Neptune would tend to perceive the unseen as benevolent. Anyone with experience care to weigh in?
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venus2tinkerbell
unregistered
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posted April 17, 2015 09:18 PM
I think the unseen are just like us- bad and good and still on trial. I can be startled by them, but if they are not hostile, I just try to coexist. I have Sun, Mercury, and Jupiter in 12 (Mercury and Jupiter are conjunct my Ascendant, so not considered 12th house by some). Neptune trines Jupiter and Mercury. Since my sister was a baby, she played with (chased) spirits. To this day, we can be having a conversation, and mid-sentence she will stop, say hi to something no one else can see, and continue speaking to me where she left off. She has Neptune in 8 sextile Jupiter. My sister doesn't consider herself religious, and the world wouldn't consider me religious. Now my brother who is very religious, and does not interact with the unseen at all (to my knowledge) has Neptune square Jupiter. IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
unregistered
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posted April 17, 2015 09:34 PM
Mercury, Venus, mars in 12th.
One negative experience but I've always felt "untouchable". Like, "what are you going to do? Nothing! That's what I thought".
I have stories.
The negative one was just "it" hovering over me in my bed and just, hatred like you wouldn't believe.
Otherwise they seemed more like observers to me. IP: Logged |
venus2tinkerbell
unregistered
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posted April 17, 2015 09:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I've always felt "untouchable". Like, "what are you going to do? Nothing! That's what I thought".
ha ha IP: Logged |
BellaFenice
Knowflake Posts: 3419
From: Neptune with PisceanDream, Faith, and Meissieri
Registered: Sep 2013
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posted April 17, 2015 09:44 PM
Uranus in 12th house checking in. I have these really freaky moments where I just seem to know something ahead of time. There have been many predictive dreams throughout my life, where the events I dream about actually come true. Both very interesting and freaky at the same, I'm not sure how I entirely feel about it. I feel the most connected when I embrace the spiritual world and trust my intuition. This could also be the 12th house POF I have though as well. I think this is what drew me to tarot card reading, not necessarily for predictive outlooks because I am firm believer in free will, but rather the ability to channel this energy inside of me. Now as far as spiritual forces, I have a few stories but not sure if I want to share them, at least now. I will say they were very unexpected and quite impactful. All positive though, and freakily enough I felt a surge of energy afterwards. IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 09:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
I think the unseen are just like us- bad and good and still on trial. I can be startled by them, but if they are not hostile, I just try to coexist. I have Sun, Mercury, and Jupiter in 12 (Mercury and Jupiter are conjunct my Ascendant, so not considered 12th house by some). Neptune trines Jupiter and Mercury. Since my sister was a baby, she played with (chased) spirits. To this day, we can be having a conversation, and mid-sentence she will stop, say hi to something no one else can see, and continue speaking to me where she left off. She has Neptune in 8 sextile Jupiter. My sister doesn't consider herself religious, and the world wouldn't consider me religious. Now my brother who is very religious, and does not interact with the unseen at all (to my knowledge) has Neptune square Jupiter.
Thank you, Venus. I appreciate your feedback. I know orthodox Christians who regard psychic and healing abilities as coming from the dark side. May I ask what your parents thought of you and your sister's abilities or did they know about this? IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 10:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Mercury, Venus, mars in 12th.
One negative experience but I've always felt "untouchable". Like, "what are you going to do? Nothing! That's what I thought".
I have stories.
The negative one was just "it" hovering over me in my bed and just, hatred like you wouldn't believe.
Otherwise they seemed more like observers to me.
DeepFreeze, thanks for weighing in! I had one experience that scared me in Brazil. I went with a group of people and met with psychic healers and mediums. It's BIG there and at the time was supported by the government! When I got back to the U.S. I spent about nine months meditating for eight hours a day on my days off from work, receiving healing sessions, everything I could to raise my vibratory rate. I met a Brazilian medium once who did these demonstrations where famous dead painters would use his body to paint pictures. The painters wanted to communicate that there is life after death. Anyway, one of them, Toulouse Lautrec, told Luis, the medium, he had to go to a workshop to get over his attachment to eating! When Luis was in a restaurant, he'd pester Luis about the food. lol IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BellaFenice:
Uranus in 12th house checking in. I have these really freaky moments where I just seem to know something ahead of time. There have been many predictive dreams throughout my life, where the events I dream about actually come true. Both very interesting and freaky at the same, I'm not sure how I entirely feel about it. I feel the most connected when I embrace the spiritual world and trust my intuition. This could also be the 12th house POF I have though as well. I think this is what drew me to tarot card reading, not necessarily for predictive outlooks because I am firm believer in free will, but rather the ability to channel this energy inside of me. Now as far as spiritual forces, I have a few stories but not sure if I want to share them, at least now. I will say they were very unexpected and quite impactful. All positive though, and freakily enough I felt a surge of energy afterwards.
BellaFenice, that's a great way to express your Uranus in the 12H. I think that our larger Identity knows things, and dreams are a way to communicate this knowledge. Since you're not sure about talking about your experiences, good decision not to.  IP: Logged |
venus2tinkerbell
unregistered
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posted April 17, 2015 10:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by peony:
Thank you, Venus. I appreciate your feedback. I know orthodox Christians who regard psychic and healing abilities as coming from the dark side. May I ask what your parents thought of you and your sister's abilities or did they know about this?
Ah, so my parents are Muslim converts, converted in the 60s. My mother grew up in nyc, but her mother was a Southern Baptist, whose mother (my great-grandmother) mixed Christian religion and Haitian/African traditions. My great-grandmother lived on a rice plantation on the islands off of South Carolina. She had Christian crosses, friz chickens, and bottle trees. Psychics and hermits are not uncommon on my mother's side of the family. So in those very early days, even before my mother chose her path of mysticism, she knew to just observe my sister. If it seemed like my sister was in danger she probably would have called in my uncle, but I guess she decided my sister was fine. IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 10:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
Ah, so my parents are Muslim converts, converted in the 60s. My mother grew up in nyc, but her mother was a Southern Baptist, whose mother (my great-grandmother) mixed Christian religion and Haitian/African traditions. My great-grandmother lived on a rice plantation on the islands off of South Carolina. She had Christian crosses, friz chickens, and bottle trees. Psychics and hermits are not uncommon on my mother's side of the family. So in those very early days, even before my mother chose her path of mysticism, she knew to just observe my sister. If it seemed like my sister was in danger she probably would have called in my uncle, but I guess she decided my sister was fine.
What a fascinating family history. It warms my heart that your mother is so open and accepting. I was just thinking today of a saint in India who suffered a great deal because her family was hostile to her spiritual nature. She has a Saturn-Neptune conjunction in the 12H. IP: Logged |
Ayelet
Moderator Posts: 3739
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted April 17, 2015 10:37 PM
I've got neptune in the 12th house aspecting all of the planets but the sun, which is almost unaspected (45 degrees one aspect). I've had several experiences, of various nature. I wonder about the "like attracts like", because even though I have some positive experiences, there has been a deterioration in my life. I wonder concerning certain spiritual involvments I've been having, which seem benign, but on the whole I can't tell. Some were shocking.IP: Logged |
venus2tinkerbell
unregistered
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posted April 17, 2015 11:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by peony:
What a fascinating family history. It warms my heart that your mother is so open and accepting. I was just thinking today of a saint in India who suffered a great deal because her family was hostile to her spiritual nature. She has a Saturn-Neptune conjunction in the 12H.
My mother has Jupiter in Cancer. She is a rather nutty and overbearing mother, but an amazing teacher. She is very comfortable with spiritual things, and afraid of worldly things. Her Cancer Sun is 8th house. IP: Logged |
Eirlys
Knowflake Posts: 516
From: Atlantic Coast
Registered: May 2013
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posted April 17, 2015 11:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Mercury, Venus, mars in 12th.
One negative experience but I've always felt "untouchable". Like, "what are you going to do? Nothing! That's what I thought".
I have stories.
The negative one was just "it" hovering over me in my bed and just, hatred like you wouldn't believe.
Otherwise they seemed more like observers to me.
I think you saw the the truth of the matter, in that instance.
------------------
It's my Pisces Moon. ☆☾ IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 11:24 PM
Okay, I've just gotten confirmation about the person I mentioned who does indeed have Jupiter conjunct Neptune and Venus square Neptune-Jupiter.IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 17, 2015 11:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ayelet:
I've got neptune in the 12th house aspecting all of the planets but the sun, which is almost unaspected (45 degrees one aspect). I've had several experiences, of various nature. I wonder about the "like attracts like", because even though I have some positive experiences, there has been a deterioration in my life. I wonder concerning certain spiritual involvments I've been having, but on the whole I can't tell. Some were shocking.
Ayelet, With so many planets aspecting your 12H Neptune, and almost an unaspected Sun, is it possible that you may be too open to unseen influences of all kinds? May I ask about your Sun, sign, house and what planet is involved in the semi-square to it? I'm wondering how strong is your sense of ego and about your third chakra. The third chakra has to do with will and power, our personal power and confidence. It also acts like a sun that distributes energy throughout the body. One indication that the third chakra is weak at the physical level is digestive problems, or depression. I understand not going into what your experiences have been on a public forum. Is there someone near you who can act as a guide for you, like a yoga teacher or spiritual counselor to help you sort through what's going on?
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peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 18, 2015 12:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
My mother has Jupiter in Cancer...She is very comfortable with spiritual things, and afraid of worldly things. Her Cancer Sun is 8th house.
She's probably a deep person with Cancer Sun in the 8H. "Comfortable with spiritual things, and afraid of worldly things," I can relate, though not afraid of the world anymore. IP: Logged |
Ayelet
Moderator Posts: 3739
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted April 18, 2015 12:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by peony:
Ayelet, With so many planets aspecting your 12H Neptune, and almost an unaspected Sun, is it possible that you may be too open to unseen influences of all kinds? May I ask about your Sun, sign, house and what planet is involved in the semi-square to it? I'm wondering how strong is your sense of ego and about your third chakra. The third chakra has to do with will and power, our personal power and confidence. It also acts like a sun that distributes energy throughout the body. One indication that the third chakra is weak at the physical level is digestive problems, or depression. I understand not going into what your experiences have been on a public forum. Is there someone near you who can act as a guide for you, like a yoga teacher or spiritual counselor to help you sort through what's going on?
Hello. Thank you for replying. My sun is in cancer in the 7th house, and the semi-square is to saturn in the 8th. Saturn is the ruler of the chart (capricorn rising). Now that I remember, the sun is also widely conjuncting venus (a 10 degrees orb). I have no spiritual counselor on this plane. I lost spiritual teachers that I met, real avatars, and since then my health has declined and I actually have no one to turn to but inside. I know it is a hard to believe story but it is true. Most people don't believe in the existance of this kind of teachers, and most people in my life belong with most people. I don't think I can find a spiritual counselor who can help, because I mistrust most of the people who publish themselves as "psychics", especially those who take money for their services. I even thought to go to India and look for a teacher, but that is not a safe journey for a single woman, especially not these days. What has happened to me is very rare, which is why it is unbelievable. Which is why I mostly keep it to myself and carry the weight of this loss alone.
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peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 18, 2015 01:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ayelet:
I wonder concerning certain spiritual involvments I've been having, which seem benign, but on the whole I can't tell. Some were shocking.
I'm not sure what you mean by "spiritual involvements," but in my experience, being close to a being who is enlightened is confronting and disruptive, if that's what you mean by "shocking." IP: Logged |
Ayelet
Moderator Posts: 3739
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted April 18, 2015 01:34 AM
That is true, but this is the beginning of it, not the whole story.IP: Logged |
SaturnFan
Knowflake Posts: 729
From:
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 18, 2015 02:19 AM
A close family member of mine has established communication with a 'being' - a self-described higher self/ guardian angel. She's had a very, very rough life and this 'gift' appeared in her late 40s. She can connect to it at any time, and ask questions - exactly what your typical psychic would claim to have the ability to do. I used to ask her questions all the time when I was in my late teens, but soured on it later and haven't asked her any questions for the past 3 or 4 years now.
She does have a genuine connection, but she is sabotaging it, by occasionally using it to feel superior and special, so this interferes with the energy. For example, if you ask her a health-related question, you'd get an amazing response - she'll tell you exactly what combination of herbs to take, and for how long, so you can fix your specific issue, and she's always right (she's never had any interest in or knowledge of herbs in her entire life, so this is in itself a small miracle). Same goes for wider questions like past lives, or any esoteric or spiritual topics- when she told me about a past life, I was mind-blown because what she described was something I had suspected since a very early age. However, if you ask her about other aspects of your life, it's a hit and miss, especially if it concerns other people. I think this is because she has a lot of anxiety and control issues about interpersonal relationships, so this impacts her 'gift' because she may be consciously or unconsciously interfering with the information she receives.Her only 12H placement is her Aquarius Moon, but it makes the following aspects:
Opposition to 6H Leo Pluto
Opposition to 6H Leo Chiron
Square to 8H Scorpio Mercury (forming a t-square with Pluto)
Square to 8H Scorpio Venus (forming a t-square with Chiron) And her 7H Virgo Neptune:
Conjuncts Libra Sun and Virgo NN
Squares 4H Gemini Jupiter
Trines 3H Taurus retrograde Saturn and 3H Gemini retrograde Uranus Pisces (1H) and Virgo (7H) are intercepted in their respective houses. The only Pisces placement she has is her SN. Jupiter squares her Nodal Axis by 1 degree. Personally, I think she has great healing potential, but her ego has been intervening more than it should have. I have Neptune conjunct Sun and trine Moon, and a 12H Venus (though conjunct AC by 0 degrees) squaring my Moon-Pluto opposition and I've only gone as far as having dreams which manifest into reality a few days later. But they are usually very trivial things, and very rarely something of bigger significance, but not big enough to freak me out. Also agree with peony about dreams being a medium for the unconscious, and I think dreams can inform and guide (in a so-called psychic way) every person on Earth as long as they're paying attention. IP: Logged |
confusedaseff
Knowflake Posts: 626
From:
Registered: Feb 2015
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posted April 18, 2015 03:04 AM
don't know really about like attracting like. i think that's independent of the spirit world. also keep in mind that there are other aspects and houses that's linked with the spirit world like the 9th house (receptivity to stuff from other planes) , 8th house, and ex. capricorn is actually quite intuitive. i've got only pallas and lilith in the 12th house
saturn in my 11th but it's semi square both neptune and uranus
both sun and moon in the 8th. and most of my psychic asteroids are in scorpio and either in the 9th or 11th and aspecting harmoniously neptune and uranus.
and i've always been very connected with the spirit world. this is something i haven't been able to control but my fear isn't exactly of the spirit world but mainly because well.. it's spirits so i can't bloody see them. i don't know what i'm working with here. i can only feel energy and its either bad or good but most of the time it's neutral but i still get scared because neutral is good and bad, what if i **** them off then it goes sour and they 'punish' me or something? this i think is mainly because of i think 2 reasons: 1. once my cousin was just being a kid and was in the temple and he made the mistake of saying something and kicking a can - throwing a tantrum - and within a minute he fainted then was so sick. doctors didn't know what it was because all the tests came up clear which freaked the doctors out. went to a medium, he angered a spirit and they were punishing him. so then there was a huge fuss over appeasing that spirit and only then he was able to get better. and getting better was literally overnight. the weight gain from all the weight he loss took longer though obv. so i'm afraid of that. 2. you know the exorcist movie. aye, saw that in person happen to my landlady. before the big.. 'climax' we were staying in her front room and i spent the weeks up to it telling me mum what was going on, i knew where the spirit was, i was **** scared. i watched her flip from normal loving mother who adored her children to then having to run and getting her husband and my mum because the she had her children nearly out the window to try and kill them. and yet all the psych evaluations turned up clean. 3 psychiatrists at three different hospitals said she wasn't schizophrenic or anything. i knew what was going on so when the whole show down happened and it came out to everyone else that she was possessed then well i was smug because no one believed me (kassandra is strong as hell in my chart haha)in the end the spirit was a person who didn't have a final resting place so wasn't able to move on. went mad because of wandering for a load of years. wanted to kill the woman and her 2 girls so then the woman can be kicked out of her grave and she can stay with her two daughters while the spirit can take her final resting place. yeah. it/she/he said that. another time i was on holiday and one of them were after me for some reason. i didn't do nothing. my mother than to proper fight it away from me. i was a kid. i was on holiday. i wasn't be negative nothing. i was happy as a pig in **** . just happened to be a haunted hotel room and it took to me over my mum. maybe because i'm an easier target at that time. so my fear is because i've seen how the spirits can hurt you. i've seen how sensitive they are and how if they want they can control you. and i can't see them so i don't know what i'm dealing with. the neutral ones - i try to get away because i don't know what not to do to **** them off. so i like to play it safe. i guess if i could see them or communicate with them to be like 'we're cool? you need something? whatcha here for?' and get an answer then id be more comfortable but i can only feel the energy. but until then i'm always being to be weary and afraid. on the other hand - a friend of mine once felt a presence in her room but it made her feel so good that she went ahead and pulled out a chair for it to sit it, made a cup of tea for it and went on with her homework lol IP: Logged |
tgem
Moderator Posts: 5200
From:
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted April 18, 2015 07:44 AM
12th house moon and venus here with sun in 11th 3 degrees from 12th house cusp. My experienes with the spiritual world started back in 2010 when I experieced my spiritual awakening. Spirits started to visit me all the time..at first I was terrified becasue I didn't understand what was happening. I lived on top of a famous war battlefield so I was inundated by them!! Becasue of my fear, their energy grew stronger and the occurances grew stronger..as DF said, some would hover over me, sit on my bed when I was sleeping, knock the walls etc.
Eventually when I learned and became more comfortable with what was happening I was able to ground myself better and get ahold of my fear. I also ended up moving away from that house for reasons unrelated. Now I am still visited by spirits BUT it's a different experience: I'm more calm now..kind of like "oh Hi, yes I know you are there..going back to sleep now." LOL
I was raised Christian and my views on religion and spirituality have dramatically changed.
I agree with the like attracts like..I try to act and think from a higher vibration and I also have learned methods to protect myself if I feel "off" for some reason when a spirit visits me.
My sun opposes uranus in Scorpio, my venus quincunx uranus. and I also have Pallas conjunct neptune in Sag. My 8th house is ruled by saturn and almost all of my personal planets except Mars make a major aspect to saturn. Finally..all my personal planets (except the moon) make major aspects to neptune. IP: Logged |
the89freespirit
unregistered
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posted April 18, 2015 09:45 AM
I'm the person referred to in the OP (though not a she, ) and with Saturn in the 12th (conjunct Neptune and Uranus, also in the 12th). And it's a big relief to know that this is a 12th House thing. I just feel like I need to drop my psychic defenses, in this case. I think I've spent my life developing these barriers from the spirit world because I found such experiences so freaky. But, whenever I allow myself to be completely open to it, it happens.The 12th House is so complex! You could spend all day unraveling it. I plan on writing an e-book about 12th House placements and finishing it within the next few weeks. So, I'll be posting updates about that! ------------------
Check out My Astrology Blog:
http://astroarena12.blogspot.com IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
unregistered
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posted April 18, 2015 09:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by the89freespirit:
I'm the person referred to in the OP (though not a she, ) and with Saturn in the 12th (conjunct Neptune and Uranus, also in the 12th). And it's a big relief to know that this is a 12th House thing. I just feel like I need to drop my psychic defenses, in this case. I think I've spent my life developing these barriers from the spirit world because I found such experiences so freaky. But, whenever I allow myself to be completely open to it, it happens.The 12th House is so complex! You could spend all day unraveling it. I plan on writing an e-book about 12th House placements and finishing it within the next few weeks. So, I'll be posting updates about that!
Yes!
I agree! (About it's complexity)
Perhaps my mars keeps me from fearing it. Would love to see a book by you on it. IP: Logged |
peony
Knowflake Posts: 1143
From: U.S.
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted April 18, 2015 11:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ayelet:
I have no spiritual counselor on this plane. I lost spiritual teachers that I met, real avatars, and since then my health has declined and I actually have no one to turn to but inside. I know it is a hard to believe story but it is true. Most people don't believe in the existance of this kind of teachers, and most people in my life belong with most people.
Ayelet, first of all, the connection with one's spiritual teacher is the deepest and truest. I know what the loss feels like. But, this bond is also the most enduring of all human relationships. So, in truth we don't really lose them, except temporarily. FWIW, there are people who don't think it's hard to believe. There are teachers in spirit as well as the ones in this plane. For us who are embodied, there's an advantage to having a teacher who is also in human form, as I'm sure you know. The great disadvantage to having a spiritual teacher who is not in human form is the gritty part of "the work" of removing obstacles on the spiritual path. I don't believe this can be done effectively this way. It's also easy to fool ourselves when a teacher isn't "in your face" if you know what I mean. It's rather a dilemma on the spiritual path - to know things that other people don't or even don't want to know, and yet not feel separate and superior to the human race. It's also an irony because the spiritual path is about connection or re-connection with all of life. quote:
I don't think I can find a spiritual counselor who can help, because I mistrust most of the people who publish themselves as "psychics", especially those who take money for their services. I even thought to go to India and look for a teacher, but that is not a safe journey for a single woman, especially not these days. What has happened to me is very rare, which is why it is unbelievable. Which is why I mostly keep it to myself and carry the weight of this loss alone.
This is what you believe, but is it really true that you can't find a spiritual teacher? Think about it, the belief that you can't may be a self-fulfilling prophesy. Is it also possible that your self-imposed isolation is all that stands in the way of your going to India. You don't have to go alone. Namaste IP: Logged | |
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