posted September 02, 2015 06:52 PM            

So I have a few questions and a few points I'd like to share...

My first question: do astrologers practice the concept of combustion or has it been done away with? I know vedic astrology practices it, still.

Second question: I read up on someone's POV on it & they mentioned that since it's a traditional concept, maybe astrologers came up with the concept due to the fact they couldnt actually SEE the planet with their telescope. Anyone want to elaborate with that?

Now, moving on to my own opinions:

I don't personally believe combustion should be practiced which is obviously due to me having 3 planets (mercury, Venus, and Saturn) combust in my chart. In no way throughout my life have I had an actual issue with learning or speaking (mercury). I love people and have been willing to make sacrifices for them & my relationships are not all that bad (Venus). I have always had a strong sense of personal responsibility & I respect other person's authority over me (Saturn).

I think the concept of combustion is demoralizing and discouraging. The idea that a combust mercury makes someone a slow learner is foolish. The idea that a combust moon creates issues with the family is also foolish. The statements that are made when you research combustion are downright cruel and one-sided. I imagine myself living in times when these concepts were commonly practiced (or in current-day India) & other people deeming me as stupid or incapable. Pretty awful... At least for me.

Anyways, part of why the concept of combustion makes my stomach turn (besides my own personal reasons) is the fact that there is combustion, and then there is cazimi. So, according to traditional beliefs a planet that is cazimi is conjunct the Sun at 0 degrees, then a planet that is combust is conjunct the sun anywhere from 1-15 degrees depending on who you're asking. SO, a planet that is cazimi is said to be given great power & bestow the chart holder with amazing abilities & all that great stuff. Then a planet that is combust is said to be weak, ineffective, and last but not least: self-absorbed.

Going off of this information, HOW IS AN EXACT CONJUNCTION BETTER THAN A SLIGHTLY DEVIATED CONJUNCTION??? How would a cazimi planet "save" the person of the negative qualities a combust planet is said to carry? Wouldn't a combust planet that is closer to cazimi have MORE strength and more potential than if it was further away?

I've read that cazimi is "in the lap of the king" and then combust is "being burnt under the sun's rays"... So a planet that is directly in the center of the sun ISN'T being burnt by the rays? Is there a dark spot on the very center of the sun that prevents this from happening? Is there a magical shield that prevents it from being weakened that wouldn't be there if it were one degree away???

It makes no practical sense that the further away a planet is from the sun the better condition its in, and the closer it gets the worse the condition of the planet gets, then when its exact it is perfectly fine and in fact quite powerful.

Orb differentiations are not like a storm with a calm peaceful eye in the center. The sun does not have a calm peaceful dark spot in the center.

posted September 02, 2015 09:07 PM            

You have to think in terms of ENERGY. Each planet is an energetic part of us.

If parts are too close, the person cannot detach well.

Detachment is needed so that a person does not go nuts lol

Think in terms of being insulted and PULLING back and assessing it, before reacting.

This is detachment.

I think one of the hardest aspects in the chart is the exact Sun/mercury combust

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posted September 02, 2015 09:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I am big into combustion. Sounds weird

You have to think in terms of ENERGY. Each planet is an energetic part of us.

If parts are too close, the person cannot detach well.

Detachment is needed so that a person does not go nuts lol

Think in terms of being insulted and PULLING back and assessing it, before reacting.

This is detachment.

I think one of the hardest aspects in the chart is the exact Sun/mercury combust

---

YAY! I'm so glad a moderator answered. But I do see your concept of what combustion represents and how it ties in a planet with the identity and how that is not always good.

But if anyone were to be insulted, I'm pretty sure they would take it personally (to some degree) regardless of their chart.

I just feel like everything I read plays it out to be a typical conjunction but with a bad aftertaste. And tbh, I wouldn't be taking it so personally if I wasn't reading all of these negative interpretations of it. I don't see how having mercury combust the sun would make one less intelligent and less capable of rationalizing? I feel like it would just make them identify with their intelligence to a higher degree than someone without it.

posted September 02, 2015 09:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
There is truth in what the Vedics say about combustion.

However, one must remember that culturally for the Vedics, the moon was in a way more important than the sun. Whereas in our (western) culture, the Sun is definitely more important than the moon. Our culture is more individualistic, which to me is a reflection of the Sun, so it's possible that in western culture, combustion is not as bad as it would be in a less individualistic culture.

---

I definitely agree with your concepts about the culture and the different methods they use for astrology.

posted September 02, 2015 09:51 PM            

Concerning "detachment", ANYONE would want to react when insulted.

That is not the point lol

Detachment is the ABILITY to pull back and assess.

There are differences in degrees of detachment.

The close Sun/mercury combust is very, very reactive.

Also, they are very self centered, through no fault of their own.

It is the energies.

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posted September 02, 2015 09:53 PM            

In the end, we all can believe however we want...and its all good. No matter what we believe we end up in the same place. So do I think my mind and ego are so merged I cannot see past myself? No, I do not! Therefore do I think the concept of the combust is real? No...I do not!
Then again...I'm a saggy and we are very open minded, plus I have Saturn making an exact trine to my Merc/Sun...I guess that could temper the affect of a combust if there is one.

They say if it's very tight it can be a positive thing? I don't know about that either...mine is 0 degree but I don't know if that's tight enough to be the "super charge" that it can give if it's a super tight conjunction.

If I know how to do this correctly...
My Sun saggy@4.28
My Merc saggy@3.32
That's 0.56 degree apart=33 arc minutes
My Merc rose before my Sun...they say that can have a lessoning affect on he combust..
I have wit, but not the drive they say combust creates..I wish I did!

Copy pasted from net....
"Said of a planet when in extreme closeness to the Sun, the limits variously placed at from 3° to 8°30'. The characteristic effect to which the term(combust) applies is probably confined within an arc of 3° and is more pronounced when the planet rises after the Sun.

Wilson says "there seems manifest a difference in genius and propensities of natives, according to the distance of their Mercury from the Sun; and that those whose Mercury is combust have little wit or solid judgment, though they will persevere in business and frequently with good success."

MERCURY COMBUST Your communication talents and skills will need help in this lifetime. Your timing is often completely off or inappropriately missing. Communication skills need help. You may also be prone to accidents and possible clumsy movement. This will define your karma and dharma in this lifetime

There is also the Camzimi

Cazimi or "in the heart of the Sun", is the position of a planet in tight conjunction with the Sun within 17' (minutes of arc). The Sun's radius on the sky is 17'. This planetary position is said to be one of great strength, the planet is fortified by the Sun's rays. Also called "zaminium".

William Lilly, the authority in horary astrology, says of a cazimi planet to be "wonderous strong".

Abu Ma'shar says a planet in cazimi is like "like a man who purifies himself and so lacks strength, but will regain health afterwards".

A contemporary astrologer Nina Holy affirms of a planet in cazimi that the close proximity to the Sun bestows great protection on the planet, a kind of cosmic protective hand.

posted September 02, 2015 10:00 PM            

Please, don't take this as personal to you, or personal to anyone.

I just, always, have integrity to Astrology. I talk about my own experience with it, of course, too

But, two placements that I have rarely /never seen people own are the Sun/mercury combust and the Water Void.

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posted September 02, 2015 10:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, cazimi is the hardest. The closer the conjunction, the harder it is.

Concerning "detachment", ANYONE would want to react when insulted.

That is not the point lol

Detachment is the ABILITY to pull back and assess.

There are differences in degrees of detachment.

The close Sun/mercury combust is very, very reactive.

Also, they are very self centered, through no fault of their own.

It is the energies.

---

Okay. Well, having Sun/Mercury combust in my chart, can I just say that there have been more than a few times where I've needed to not react to situations and have done so successfully?

My best example is after being bullied throughout my school years, but never once getting into a legitimate fight over it. I thought about it, but I never did it lol

And this is what I read about combust & cazimi today:
https://astralvisions.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/cazimi-under-the-sunbeams-combust-the-conjunctions-of-the-sun/

posted September 02, 2015 10:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Again, nothing but love. I think we are all grown enough to talk about this and have opposing views

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That is cool, my Friend.

I know some people see the cazimi as brilliant.

I don't see that.

I see it as the Sun/ego burning up the mind/Mercury, due to excessive closeness.

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posted September 02, 2015 10:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Gabby

Please, don't take this as personal to you, or personal to anyone.

I just, always, have integrity to Astrology. I talk about my own experience with it, of course, too

But, two placements that I have rarely /never seen people own are the Sun/mercury combust and the Water Void.

---

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just saying my experience with the aspect. I own most everything about myself...I just don't see it in me.
I would think if it was there it would be seen.
I've been on this forum for years, if I was the way this aspect described....you would see it by now.

I'm not even upset that you think that I'm not owning up to something negative about myself...that's your right to think that. I just wish you would look at the facts of who I am, the person you know....instead of saying I am a certain way due to an aspect, that may or may not be a relevant or accurate aspect.

posted September 02, 2015 10:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Again, nothing but love. I think we are all grown enough to talk about this and have opposing views

---

Agreed...honestly sometimes it seems those of us with the combust seem less sensitive about the things being said about us than the ppl without it.
Maybe we've had to work more to become that way? Maybe at first in life there is an oversensitivity in us due to pain, hurts and things we went through like being bullied.
Maybe we had to work though that...and we became stronger within ourselves because we were forced to learn to look at things differently than our initial way of seeing things or else we will just fall apart or implode.

We had to see the situation for what it was outside of us, look at why the bully is mean...maybe his dad beats him up, maybe he has no friends and doesn't know how to open up except being mean, maybe he's afraid no one will like him unless he's mean and he's trying to fit in with a group that behaves like that.
We have to learn to see life outside of it just from our perspective which would be "oh poor me" if we didn't learn to see it outside of us. That's not a good way to go through life.

My abuser hurt me so bad....but eventually as I got older and away from the situation i learned to forgive by realizing he was doing was he was taught and if he had the strength to fight those behavior patterns I'm sure he would have.

posted September 02, 2015 11:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
That is cool, my Friend.

I know some people see the cazimi as brilliant.

I don't see that.

I see it as the Sun/ego burning up the mind/Mercury, due to excessive closeness.

---

posted September 02, 2015 11:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Agreed...honestly sometimes it seems(in threads regarding this aspect) those of us with the combust seem less sensitive about the things being said about us than the ppl without it.
Maybe we've had to work more to become that way? Maybe at first in life there is an oversensitivity in us due to pain, hurts and things we went through like being bullied.
Maybe we had to work though that...and we became stronger within ourselves because we were forced to learn to look at things differently than our initial way of seeing things or else we will just fall apart or implode.

We had to see the situation for what it was outside of us, look at why the bully is mean...maybe his dad beats him up, maybe he has no friends and doesn't know how to open up except being mean, maybe he's afraid no one will like him unless he's mean and he's trying to fit in with a group that behaves like that.
We have to learn to see life outside of it just from our perspective which would be "oh poor me" if we didn't learn to see it outside of us. That's not a good way to go through life.

My abuser hurt me so bad....but eventually as I got older and away from the situation i learned to forgive by realizing he was doing was he was taught and if he had the strength to fight those behavior patterns I'm sure he would have.

---

I agree with you on the fact that is it just an astrological aspect and it's not right to assume a person is a certain way just because of where the planets are. This is all hypothetical... Sometimes people forget that, I think.

But to be honest, you are definitely super charged! xD And I don't think that's bad! Also, being oversensitive is common in people with clairvoyance. I think that you probably have a good read on people such as a bully, and I feel like I would too. That's why it confuses me when they say combustion makes you less able to assess things. I feel like we spend a lot of time assessing things, maybe more than others. Maybe that's the actual flaw. But maybe that's the actual gift.

Maybe the Sun is offering us special talents and people without those talents don't quite get it because they're blinded to it (just like they're actually blinded by the rays of the sun when they view the planet). However, this is all wishful thinking. To some cultures we are low on the astrological totem.

posted September 03, 2015 12:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
I agree with you on the fact that is it just an astrological aspect and it's not right to assume a person is a certain way just because of where the planets are. This is all hypothetical... Sometimes people forget that, I think.

But to be honest, you are definitely super charged! xD And I don't think that's bad! Also, being oversensitive is common in people with clairvoyance. I think that you probably have a good read on people such as a bully, and I feel like I would too. That's why it confuses me when they say combustion makes you less able to assess things. I feel like we spend a lot of time assessing things, maybe more than others. Maybe that's the actual flaw. But maybe that's the actual gift.

Maybe the Sun is offering us special talents and people without those talents don't quite get it because they're blinded to it (just like they're actually blinded by the rays of the sun when they view the planet). However, this is all wishful thinking. To some cultures we are low on the astrological totem.

I LOVE THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW I'm so happy we're all shedding light on this ))

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Super Charged?? Lol...I like it!
I'm a triple saggy with Pluto on AC, I wouldn't expect anything less!

Regarding this particular topic, me and Ami have playfully disagreed for years! 💜 but we still love each other!

I have an unaspected virgo moon...if anything would make me over sensitive it's that. Lol
I've worked through so much and found my self esteem so now I don't need to be over sensitive. I know who I am and that's all it takes to be able to let what ppl say roll off my back. So I just don't feel like it's a good fit for me...and my combust is about as close as you can get without being a camazi aspect, so I would think, unless I'm totally oblivious, id see it in me!?!

posted September 03, 2015 01:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Super Charged?? Lol...I like it!
I'm a triple saggy with Pluto on AC, I wouldn't expect anything less!

Regarding this particular topic, me and Ami have playfully disagreed for years! 💜 but we still love each other!

I have an unaspected virgo moon...if anything would make me over sensitive it's that. Lol
I've worked through so much and found my self esteem so now I don't need to be over sensitive. I know who I am and that's all it takes to be able to let what ppl say roll off my back. So I just don't feel like it's a good fit for me...and my combust is about as close as you can get without being a camazi aspect, so I would think, unless I'm totally oblivious, id see it in me!?!

Although I do wonder if the fact that my Merc rose before my Sun affects it? I read that it can greatly lessen the affect plus having a planet like Saturn that is in a lesser degree than my Sun/Merc making a very tight trine to both....that could make the difference.

---

posted September 03, 2015 01:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Super Charged?? Lol...I like it!
I'm a triple saggy with Pluto on AC, I wouldn't expect anything less!

Regarding this particular topic, me and Ami have playfully disagreed for years! 💜 but we still love each other!

I have an unaspected virgo moon...if anything would make me over sensitive it's that. Lol
I've worked through so much and found my self esteem so now I don't need to be over sensitive. I know who I am and that's all it takes to be able to let what ppl say roll off my back. So I just don't feel like it's a good fit for me...and my combust is about as close as you can get without being a camazi aspect, so I would think, unless I'm totally oblivious, id see it in me!?!

Although I do wonder if the fact that my Merc rose before my Sun affects it? I read that it can greatly lessen the affect plus having a planet like Saturn that is in a lesser degree than my Sun/Merc making a very tight trine to both....that could make the difference.

---

As far as the information about the planet rising before the sun, I have no idea. I haven't researched that far yet.

posted September 03, 2015 01:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
Yes, all of that mutable energy would indeed make you super charged. I can see it already. And yes, I feel the same. I don't see how it applies to me, but maybe that's because I've integrated it into my identity. And maybe some people think that's bad but I think if you use it correctly you can make it good.

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Lol..I'm very mutable!
Saggy Sun/Merc/Nep stellium in 3rd(gemini house)
Virgo Moon(unaspected so xtra strong)
Gemini Mars in 9th (saggy house)

These questions below are questions I ask myself....to gauge how I'm doing in balancing my needs with others. To see if I'm being to self involved because I can't get out of my own head or see beyond my own ego and it's needs. Typically I do ok. But sometimes I get to feeling very put upon and get selfish, but I realize that serves no one and try to correct as soon as I see it.

posted September 03, 2015 01:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
As far as the information about the planet rising before the sun, I have no idea. I haven't researched that far yet.

And a trine to the planet would help. My mercury is in it's fall sign of Pisces and has only squares/oppositions/conjunctions. It's a hard stellium to handle, honestly

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posted September 03, 2015 08:13 AM            

The cazimi is a defining aspect in charts, imo.

The reason is not anyone's "fault". The charts give each person challenges and gifts.

The cazimi/close combust makes one very "close to oneself"

Each person is " close to himself" by the nature of being human.

Each person feels the world revolves around himself, by the nature of being human.

The cazimi/clos combust makes this much more intense.

Hence, the native finds this part of human nature to be much more entrenched, more of a fortress.

As I said, the person may or may not see it.

It is my opinion of this aspect from my work with charts.

I am one person with one opinion.

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posted September 03, 2015 12:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
You might like this site...
http://www.horaryastrology.info/2010/08/conjunctions-with-sun.html?m=1

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I like your self-questioning. It seems like that would be a favorable part of having a cazimi aspect according to Vedic and traditional and some modern beliefs. It appears as though you're cleansing yourself every time you see yourself becoming selfish and self-serving.

posted September 03, 2015 12:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Well, how close is your cazimi, M?

The cazimi is a defining aspect in charts, imo.

The reason is not anyone's "fault". The charts give each person challenges and gifts.

The cazimi/close combust makes one very "close to oneself"

Each person is " close to himself" by the nature of being human.

Each person feels the world revolves around himself, by the nature of being human.

The cazimi/clos combust makes this much more intense.

Hence, the native finds this part of human nature to be much more entrenched, more of a fortress.

As I said, the person may or may not see it.

It is my opinion of this aspect from my work with charts.

I am one person with one opinion.

---

I'm M, right? Lol. If not I am definitely going to make a fool out of my testaments against combustion not making one self absorbed xD

But I don't have a cazimi aspect, only combustions.
I'll just list my planet locations:

Sun at 29.20' 8" Aquarius
Saturn at 2.25' 9" Pisces
Mercury (retrograde) at 3.42' 38" Pisces
Venus at 7.4' 7" Pisces

posted September 03, 2015 12:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Well, how close is your cazimi, M?

The cazimi is a defining aspect in charts, imo.

The reason is not anyone's "fault". The charts give each person challenges and gifts.

The cazimi/close combust makes one very "close to oneself"

Each person is " close to himself" by the nature of being human.

Each person feels the world revolves around himself, by the nature of being human.

The cazimi/clos combust makes this much more intense.

Hence, the native finds this part of human nature to be much more entrenched, more of a fortress.

As I said, the person may or may not see it.

It is my opinion of this aspect from my work with charts.

I am one person with one opinion.

---

I'm not going to lie, I definitely do find myself being at the center of everything according to me. Like sometimes I will actually think that maybe a certain event in the world is happening because of me, or that people are plotting against me and revolving their whole lives around my demise. I always thought that was just due to the Sun being the identity and then my stellium having negative aspects to Pluto and Chiron. I never thought it was due to combustion because I always saw what Saturn, Mercury, and Venus represents as separate from myself but intertwined with me by human nature.