posted September 15, 2015 09:07 AM            

"You are not concise! You are not communicating ideas precisely! You are meandering! I will teach you how to be concise, I am the expert at this! See how I just repeated the same accusation three times? That's concise!"

posted September 15, 2015 09:25 AM            

Tarot is just a method of divination. Most of them, just like Tarot, are based on interpreting imagery and symbols. There are two levels: 1) the symbolism attached to the card 2) and pure imagery. Imagery usually prevails. Let's give an example from my files.

How did my uncle and aunt first meet?

5 of swords and 10 of swords are two "negative" cards in Tarot, two cards of defeat and anguish. One might say they met through a difficult situation, when one or both were in pain.
What happened is they met on the beach. The sky became clouded and a storm was about to break. My aunt was wearing a pinkish reddish outfit and she was sun bathing. When the sky got covered with clouds, she began to pack; that's when my uncle decided to approach her, not to lose her He went to her and told her not to leave, because the sun will come out soon (he was bluffing). But as it happens, the gods were on his side, and the sun did come out and they kept on talking and knowing each other.
As you can see from the cards, there is one cloudy Tarot card (among few) and a fellow dressed in red kinda sun bathing haha. Also, the sun is coming through. The last card is symbolic for meeting and getting together of two future husband and wife.
An example of how imagery prevails.

What is happening here, with divination, is that we can see the future (predict).

This is major stuff What does it mean if we can see the future? What do you think? I am curious what y'all think about the scientific - physics - implications and meaning of being able to predict the future.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 15, 2015 09:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swanlake:
Pixie Jane- Frankly, your answers are ALWAYS far too verbally rambling..meandering EVERYWHERE so it's hard to get your point!

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And speaking frankly right back, you've always had a difficulty with reading comprehension when the material was anything other than super simple (noting the semi-exception would meander too far away from the topic at hand). Case in point, I clearly said: "I'll try to give an explanation when I have more time." And then in the next reply (which was a reply to the reply of my first post--sorry if you're getting confused again) I said, "I'll get back to this." (There was also my saying I felt too brain fried to give an answer now.) That means, quite simply, that I have NOT answered yet!

I probably will later today (got things to do and I haven't even had breakfast yet so it won't be for several hours at least). When I do (that is actually give an answer, which I have not done yet) it will help if the reader is familiar with the concepts of synchronicity and entanglement as I'll very likely mention those concepts. And if I'm confident about everyone knows what I'm talking about when I do then I won't feel a need to "meander all over the place" in giving an explanation for the concepts "just to be sure we're on the same page."

posted September 15, 2015 10:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swanlake:
(Oh dear How the Hell did my post double??)
ANYWAY, Dear Pixie Jane..

(SORRY to interrupt post)

P.J. Did anyone ever teach you about CONCISE use of Language? So as to communicate your ideas precisely?
Without MEANDERING in a sea of words/confusion..that makes the reader get lost??
P.S.I am a Language Critic, just wanting to help you (or others) ..(Gladly willing to help, -just ASK)

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Please, this is my thread. I don't need an argument. I as OP don't find PixieJane rambling. In fact she's really good at debating, just like most libra and she has lots of info if you're down to read them all.

posted September 15, 2015 05:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
@Leeloo: don't wan and quote you because of the big pictures but that's one real cool story. how do you decide which way to interpret tho?

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Randall is right, and athene too, numbers are the skeleton of the universe and their frequency is in everything. And the myths and symbols in all systems (astrology, runes, tarot etc) are similar; Joseph Campbell, as an example, but Jung and Eliade before him have already found out that myths and symbols are universal and repetitive in all cultures.

For your question...every string of cards is a puzzle. To find the right solution, you combine the study of the symbols with intuition and I think the ability to solve puzzles. Having info about the matter also helps a lot, of course.

The example I gave was part of an exercise with myself, for practice, when I drew cards for how couples in my entourage first met: my family, my parents, friends, and then asked them In this particular case, I thought of two solutions: one was the difficult period for someone; the other was the beach or near water, because of the 2 beach cards. As it happens many times with cards and Tarot, actually both were correct, since my uncle was also going through a difficult ending (divorce and loss of job).

Cards many times have different layers.
In this case, what I did was accessing the "records' in the past. But the interesting thing happens when and since we can also access the records of the future.
I call them records because I think they are very similar to what is called the Akashic records.
I think the scientific breakthrough of divination comes from the fact that the possibility to predict the future means at any given point in time, there is a way to travel in time (through the mind, the focus when reading the cards), like a time machine. Which means in any given moment in time, the record already exists: the future is already written. I haven't found out yet if this future can be changed in any way (technically, it should be possible, by this I mean a decision today probably opens a new path in the future and this future is in fact a bundle of alternatives; not sure about this one for now) but one thing is for certain: it can be predicted. In a way, the action of divination is like a wormhole.

posted September 15, 2015 06:23 PM            

I don't believe divination has anything to do with tapping into your own subconsciousness. Maybe tapping into a pool of common consciousness, but that doesn't explain why you can predict future events, which never even crossed your mind.

My personal view is that there are a multitude of parallel universes inhabiting the very same physical space. Physics allows for this possibility and there were several TV shows (FRINGE, STARGATE) that addressed this theory. Very simplistically, the matter in each universe vibrates on a different frequency, making them "invisible" to each other. It is my belief that divination (which includes Tarot, but also lots of other systems not based on imagery, like i-ching, runes, etc) is a bridge between two universes. Simply put, the ones with the "gift" are somehow able to communicate with someone from another universe. We don't understand how the time flows in these universes, so for all that we know, our future is their past, which may explain the "predictions" of the future.

To answer LeeLoo's question, the other theory I have is that divination predicts the outcome of a certain situation IF the events continue on the same course. in other words, it extrapolates the present. I believe the prediction will change if the person changes his/her behavior by 90-180 degrees. The problem is that very, VERY few people have the ability/maturity/willingness to make such a change.

posted September 15, 2015 06:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Randall is right, and athene too, numbers are the skeleton of the universe and their frequency is in everything. And the myths and symbols in all systems (astrology, runes, tarot etc) are similar; Joseph Campbell, as an example, but Jung and Eliade before him have already found out that myths and symbols are universal and repetitive in all cultures.

For your question...every string of cards is a puzzle. To find the right solution, you combine the study of the symbols with intuition and I think the ability to solve puzzles. Having info about the matter also helps a lot, of course.

The example I gave was part of an exercise with myself, for practice, when I drew cards for how couples in my entourage first met: my family, my parents, friends, and then asked them In this particular case, I thought of two solutions: one was the difficult period for someone; the other was the beach or near water, because of the 2 beach cards. As it happens many times with cards and Tarot, actually both were correct, since my uncle was also going through a difficult ending (divorce and loss of job).

Cards many times have different layers.
In this case, what I did was accessing the "records' in the past. But the interesting thing happens when and since we can also access the records of the future.
I call them records because I think they are very similar to what is called the Akashic records.
I think the scientific breakthrough of divination comes from the fact that the possibility to predict the future means at any given point in time, there is a way to travel in time (through the mind, the focus when reading the cards), like a time machine. Which means in any given moment in time, the record already exists: the future is already written. I haven't found out yet if this future can be changed in any way (technically, it should be possible, by this I mean a decision today probably opens a new path in the future and this future is in fact a bundle of alternatives; not sure about this one for now) but one thing is for certain: it can be predicted. In a way, the action of divination is like a wormhole.

The fact that the future is already written at any given moment in time is of course, of major scientific, philosophical, religious and so on implications. Probably it is about to cause a major shift in the near future. As it happens, quantum physics is already getting in touch with this fact with scientific instruments and theories.

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posted September 15, 2015 08:57 PM            

A guy teaching me the Western Mystery Tradition (which included the correspondences between astrology, gematria/numbers, tarot, even palministry and the body) was trying to get me to learn the tarot (his Wiccan aunt helped). At first when I'd attune to the cards I'd visualize the energy that is me (including subconscious, astrological energy, etc) reaching into the cards along with the question I was asking, seeing "the pattern that is manifesting." (As Above, So Below, what is about to happen is already formed, or at least forming, in the astral planes). In a sense, I created a temporary entanglement between me and the cards which enabled synchronicity.

Being 18 I played around with it a bit, and as I hung around so many back then that believed horrible things were coming to the world with some believing the US government was, fairly soon, going to declare martial law, send people to camps, and things of that nature I then decided to ask the cards what lay ahead for the United States. Since "the US" couldn't pick the cards or put their energy into them that meant I had to "attune" myself so I meditated on the US flag and drawing that energy through me and into the cards.

Looking back on it, I think that was probably the mistake I made that resulted in a lot of hardship for me the next few months. (And to think my teacher was there, but then he said he'd never tried anything like that before so I he wouldn't know, though he was a Pisces moon so I think he should've anyway.)

I forget which type of reading I did but the final card meaning final outcome was the Tower, and it was upside down. (My teacher grimaced.) I touched all the cards trying to let the events and/or people the cards represented (being entangled with them) flow into my energy and consciousness but either I lacked the ability or the context to make sense out of them as what I got was "garbled" for want of a better word. I let words float from the cards to my mouth but they also didn't make sense to me or him, anymore than the brief images I got. But when I got to the Tower I said "a building in flames" and then looking at the Tower upside down I said something like "an act that threatens the very Constitution itself, and any who don't support it are called unpatriotic."

It was all so vague that I said maybe instead of tapping anything real I'd just tapped into the paranoia of those who inspired me to ask. He didn't know what to make of it either, but he said he got the feeling that I was tapping into something other than myself, and he got goosebumps listening to me talk and from the energy coming off of me (he's an amazing psychic, and I don't say that about people lightly). And when I went to the library later I had a feeling of dread looking at the US flag (and like the stripes would become prison bars, and even flown upside down showing distress) which I told him about later. I should've tried to flush that energy out of me then but it didn't occur to either of us.

Shortly after my own life became very chaotic and I was pretty much forced to flee an escalating violent situation (that was also drawing the attention of law enforcement) that got me to Frisco. San Francisco was incredibly bad for me with more violence, threats, and obnoxiousness that I swore never to return (though when I did trying to see a musical in I think 2009 it was pleasant). I finally had to move to a flophouse in Oakland where I faced a lot more problems, including plenty of disabled veterans (that flophouse was all they could afford) but finally saved the money to move...

As I drove to where I was relocating I saw the flags were at half-mast. I asked a gas station attendant between Frisco and Venice (California) and he and others in the store started telling me about the fateful day that was 9/11. Once I was able to get access to a TV later that day I saw the images as they dominated the airwaves.

And yet my luck finally started to improve, though about a month later the US Patriot Act passed which sounded to me like it was a blatant dismissal of the Constitution. Thinking of some of the survivalists and such who said they'd fight if the US Government ever went that far I called my teacher for news. He answered my questions, but he mostly asked me if I recalled that tarot reading I'd done a few months earlier. He said as he saw the planes crash into the building on TV he suddenly remembered my touching the burning tower in the deck with a force that brought his goosebumps back, and now with the US Patriot Act...he repeated my words to me that didn't make sense then but they did now. He told me I had a gift that I must develop but I said my life was bad enough with me trying to get by (and I just wasn't interested anyway).

But I had a new life, new friends (this was when I met the woman who'd become my current BFF today, and she convinced everyone that the name I'd earned recently as Dervish for my "mystic dancing" had to not be used any longer for fear of vigilantes mistaking me for a "terrorist sympathizer" which sucked as I liked that nickname but I believe Ms. Pisces Moon was right) and all else. I believe the reason my life had gotten so chaotic and even menacing between that reading and 9/11 was because my energy was still entangled with the cards and thus the events they symbolized. Just as 9/11 brought major changes to the US, so did that very same day bring major changes to my life (though at least I didn't experience personal tragedy that day, though I did leave Oakland & Frisco vowing to never return to either). In retrospect I believe I'd entangled myself up in that energy so that as one was affected, I was affected in a similar manner, and once the "reading was through" (primarily with 9/11) then I'd "untangled" myself from it which is why my life then got better (though not so much for the US).

So HOW did I become entangled in the first place? The cards are archetypal images that tap into the same energy as astrology, that of the collective unconscious (the gods are also archetypes, as are the signs of the zodiac). (If I could recall the exact reading I'd check their astrological correspondences and then compare/contrast them to my transits at the time.) But attuning myself to "US energy" (and inspired by survivalists and similar types who believed disaster and/or persecution was coming which thus directed my energy toward that specifically as I was wondering if they were right) but as I had to channel that energy through myself to put them into the cards (which I normally did not do) I'd essentially "merged" our energies together putting both into the cards at the same time. And as the reading went months into the future, my energy was thus somewhat "merged" with that same energy and karma for the next several months (for me it was a long rough time that came really close to gun violence more than once, both by me and at me) but once I'd "gone past where the cards read" then the merging ceased, because it was the cards (and their archetypal images that were entangled with the events I'd read) that had "locked" me into that entanglement so that just as the cards were entangled in those events (as the events "flowed" through me into the cards finding their best representations to "show their reflection from Above") so was I.

posted September 15, 2015 09:01 PM            

My teacher said the tarot could be used in magic, and his aunt also used the tarot imagery in some self-healing. That is in addition to being used to read the future, they could be used to shape it as well, I guess turning the "receiver" that the cards were into a "transmitter." As Above, So Below, as the saying goes. And Magic(k) is doing things Below that shape the Above that then manifest Below (think of them as reflections, but entanglement is better, and one called such magic "coinci-dance" or the art of guiding synchronicity).

That's THE simplest explanation of the tarot btw, As Above, So Below. The tarot (and its archetypal imagery) are the "mirror" of the patterns "above" that have yet to manifest "below."

And yet some use the tarot in an attempt to shape (rather than divine) the the "above" in order to affect the "below" (material world) as the shaped form manifests from the spiritual planes into this plane of existence.

My teachers also said he once experimented with a type of divination cards that were intended to be used in a roleplaying game, that is they weren't supposed to work, and because they were supposed to move a story along their meanings were more definitive. He found that he could use them to read the future as well, though he didn't think they worked as well as the tarot.

posted September 16, 2015 04:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^^ Isn't she amazing?

Who needs trippy drugs when you can just be transported to another reality with Lee's writing?

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posted September 16, 2015 10:27 AM            

The images tell the story of humanity. Just read the images. There is no magic really.

With regards to "pulling" of the cards, I find Carl Jung's theory of synchronicity useful in understanding how this may work. Worth looking into.

posted September 16, 2015 12:15 PM            

Regards another dimension coming into it ... One form synchronicity seems to take is encountering multiples of the same thing - people of the same name for e.g but am thinking of more neat replicas - like miniature blue prints. It seems to increase the more someone is open up or first opens up to that energy. Thinking of 10 dimensional universe etc, I visualise this as a sheet of paper folded over with whatever is printed on the first side copied onto the second and increasing in complexity, kaleidoscopic the more is folded over. I think the more attuned, the more dimensions and patterns can be accessed. I think of tarot & archetypes as a pin through those folds, accessing that imagery somehow.

posted September 16, 2015 01:17 PM            

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 16, 2015 06:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
If tarot cards show what's currently going on above, I wonder how these processes unfold, what causes them and where they take place exactly. Something tells me it would the dimension considered to be the closest one to ours and the blueprint of this place, the etheric realm. Or maybe it starts higher and the energy patterns descend world by world

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I forgot to mention in the correspondences, the tarot (and astrology, etc) also correspond to the Kabbalistic Tree of Life:

http://www.byzant.com/mystical/tarot/Kabbalah.aspx

Explaining the Tree is no easy feat. My understanding is that many occultists that use that as the basis of their purification are constantly achieving greater understanding of it to the day they die (and presumably beyond). Suffice to say they're "spiritual emanations/vibrations" that some would call God, Above, the various spiritual, astral, etheric levels of vibration, and so on.

posted September 16, 2015 07:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NYCdodger:
So should i just go to ANY Tarot Card reader? Or should I pick someone with a certain credential?

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A lot of them are just entertainers, and some can play dirty. I speak from experience, but I'd rather not share what happened.

Shop carefully. If I were going to look for a professional reader I think I'd start asking around at some of the more metaphysical friendly churches (not new age shops, however, unless I really trusted the people who ran it to be very good judges of character and operating with integrity), like say the Unitarian Universalists (not that I'd just walk in and ask if there was a reader in the house, I'd have to play it by ear, maybe speak to someone there and asking if a flier or other notice of interest was permissible), and trying to find someone word of mouth rather than heavily advertised, easily found, or with garish signs marking their locations.

posted September 16, 2015 07:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swanlake:
BEST answers so far
(even though not my question..)
But if my son was asking, who similar to theunknown,was earth/air...
PRIZE would go to
1) S Dragon
2) Gemini Blues

( Pixie Jane- your answers are always far too verbally rambling..Meandering everywhere so it's hard to get your point!)

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It's called "having a conversation".

posted September 16, 2015 07:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Florence, what you describe is quite evocative for the wormhole principle

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posted September 16, 2015 07:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
A lot of them are just entertainers, and some can play dirty. I speak from experience, but I'd rather not share what happened.

Shop carefully. If I were going to look for a professional reader I think I'd start asking around at some of the more metaphysical friendly churches (not new age shops, however, unless I really trusted the people who ran it to be very good judges of character and operating with integrity), like say the Unitarian Universalists (not that I'd just walk in and ask if there was a reader in the house, I'd have to play it by ear, maybe speak to someone there and asking if a flier or other notice of interest was permissible), and trying to find someone word of mouth rather than heavily advertised, easily found, or with garish signs marking their locations.

That said, I thought it worth pointing out that it's easy to find frauds and cheats in every field, it doesn't mean the field itself is flawed, but rather human nature.

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