posted November 05, 2015 07:20 PM            

Later, something serious happens in Sally's life - and Harry avoids the situation. Sally lets Harry know she is going through a lot (like she's on the verge of saying "goodbye" to this life, because things get that bad) ... and Harry basically sends her some typical "well wishes" (that you would expect from a perfect stranger).

Sally starts to feel like Harry was a fair weather friend - and was around only when life was good and happy.
So Sally does not contact Harry again. But Harry does not make contact either to see how she is, or see what else has happened in her life.

Fortunately, Sally is a strong person - so she manages everything that happens in her life all by herself with no outside help from fair weather friends.
The negative situation blows over - as time goes on...

A couple of years later Sally is forced to contact Harry, due to a project they once worked on... (and I do mean forced because she had no choice whatsoever).. She is nice but cold/professional in her email - and asks for help on said something. Harry does what he is asked to do, but replies in a short and rude way.

When Sally confronts Harry, his attitude is kind of angry and passive-aggressive - and he is behaving as though *she* wronged him all those years back.
He even says: "You're the one who left me", and accuses her of never taking his advice (which is not true).

So - my question is - what kind of person engages in such behaviour?
Basically the behaviour is:
- Avoiding a friend when that friend goes through something serious in life...
- Not acknowledging any fault for -failing to "be there" as a friend... and to top the cake ...
- Acting as though HE is the one who has reasons to be angry... when he was at fault in the first place...

Astrologically, what placements would you give this person (Harry)?
Basically - failing to acknowledge guilt - and reacting by pointing fingers at the one who was wronged?

posted November 05, 2015 07:36 PM            

I just don't get it.

posted November 05, 2015 07:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
I know the answer so I won't cheat. LOL

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hahahaha lol

posted November 05, 2015 07:40 PM            

"It's either someone else's fault, or it was my evil twin, or - it never happened!"

posted November 05, 2015 07:53 PM            

So years later, his son (me), is trying to figure out life. Trying to find himself and wondering why is he stuck in this, what seemed to be a meaningless existence. My father, who watched his father die from an accidental (it's debatable) shooting and who's brother hung himself. He had absolutely nothing to do with me in my hard times. Not even a phone call. Just absolutely nothing at all during or after. It hurt and I felt very angry for years and years. I put it in the back and moved on because well, he was my father and you only get one.
In the years before his death, I got to vaguely catch glimpses of his sensitive side. It wasn't much but I'm good at picking these things up. Now that he's gone it has occurred to me that in all likelihood it scared the absolute crap out of him. I can imagine the torture he must have felt plagued his own life, his father, his brother, and now possibly his son. It never occurred to me. He simply didn't know how to cope with it. He didn't know if he had the strength to cope with this all the while reliving the hell in years gone by.
I'm not suggesting that this IS what is going on. But it's possible. My father acted very angry with me anytime I expressed any depression.
Matter of fact, so did a couple of exes.

He (Harry) could be cold and heartless, I'll give you that. He could also just be clueless on how to handle it, for various reasons.
It's easy to blame others for our own pain. Sometimes we react in anger. Sometimes it's hard to face pain. We blame others for things that they trigger within us. We blame them for making us feel out of control.

posted November 05, 2015 08:46 PM            

A lot of times, men are just no good at comforting women. They get freaked out and run. You can research it....the internet is full of women whose husbands abandoned them (or seriously let them down) when they got cancer, after they had c-section, etc.

These men are usually good people. Disease and hardship just freaks them out.

posted November 05, 2015 08:51 PM            

I'm sorry all that horrible stuff went down in your family. Awful.

This is the kind of thing where you wonder if it's okay to even address it...? Because it seems almost too painful to touch.

Not sure if I was any help here, just swinging by...

posted November 05, 2015 09:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
DopGang

I'm sorry all that horrible stuff went down in your family. Awful.

This is the kind of thing where you wonder if it's okay to even address it...? Because it seems almost too painful to touch.

Not sure if I was any help here, just swinging by...

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Oh it's quite alright.

posted November 05, 2015 10:06 PM            

quote:

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Basically the behaviour is:
- Avoiding a friend when that friend goes through something serious in life...
- Not acknowledging any fault for -failing to "be there" as a friend... and to top the cake ...
- Acting as though HE is the one who has reasons to be angry... when he was at fault in the first place...

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My best friend of 8 years was exactly like this, towards me and everyone else. He is a Cap Sun in the 4th with Cancer Moon in the 10th, Aqua Mercury. I think he is very hard on himself, because he's so sensitive (Cancer) and feels responsible (Cap) for all the sensitivity he feels, but then the Aqua Mercury makes him dysfunctional when it comes to communication. He would get kind of nasty when he perceived confrontation of any kind, real or not. Nasty and Cold. He once victim-blamed me in front of a bunch of people (strangers to him), behind my back, for getting sexually assaulted at his own house party - that one was fun.

So, I'd say maybe a Sun-Moon opposition like that - or something that allows for someone to be empathic, yet completely unable to deal with it.

posted November 05, 2015 10:26 PM            

I'm really sorry you went through all of that with your dad. That would be much harder than what I'm going through with my "friend"... because your parents are supposed to be there for you, no matter what.

posted November 05, 2015 10:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Sexist observation, sorry:

A lot of times, men are just no good at comforting women. They get freaked out and run. You can research it....the internet is full of women whose husbands abandoned them (or seriously let them down) when they got cancer, after they had c-section, etc.

These men are usually good people. Disease and hardship just freaks them out.

I think they genuinely do not know what to do.

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I completely agree with you!

I actually thought the same thing myself...

But my question is... why is it that NOW, years after the event... he still has to be a jerk?

If he acknowledged that he did the wrong thing and was apologetic - that I could be ok with.
Or, if he did nothing at all - and was neutral, that would be fine too.

But acting like - *I* was in the wrong - and he is the damn victim??? And I should be the one to say sorry to him??

Like... what in God's name is he smoking?

"Oh I'm so sorry I had problems in my life and you couldn't be there for me. Please accept my heartfelt apologies for your cowardice"

^ Maybe I should email him that! lol

posted November 05, 2015 10:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:
My best friend of 8 years was exactly like this, towards me and everyone else. He is a Cap Sun in the 4th with Cancer Moon in the 10th, Aqua Mercury. I think he is very hard on himself, because he's so sensitive (Cancer) and feels responsible (Cap) for all the sensitivity he feels, but then the Aqua Mercury makes him dysfunctional when it comes to communication. He would get kind of nasty when he perceived confrontation of any kind, real or not. Nasty and Cold. He once victim-blamed me in front of a bunch of people (strangers to him), behind my back, for getting sexually assaulted at his own house party - that one was fun.

So, I'd say maybe a Sun-Moon opposition like that - or something that allows for someone to be empathic, yet completely unable to deal with it.

He also has a tight Venus - Saturn square, Sag-Pisces. Venus-Jupiter Sag in 3rd square Pisces Saturn in 6th. I think maybe he promises more than he can deliver in relationships, and then feels bad about it, and turns the guilt outwards. With our mutual friend, he expressed a lot of unwarranted coldness, as if she was pressuring him by confiding in him emotionally. When she went through a seriously rough time at their school, he completely ditched her and actually befriended the people who were bullying her, and basically made her feel crazy and told her it was all in her head. He acted like she was an embarrassment to him, when it was the other people who were totally lame and sadistic. (And this wasn't even in high school )

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Wow!
This does remind me of him.
But, you know what? He is 48 now!
48 years old.. for goodness sake. Is he ever going to grow up?

posted November 05, 2015 10:43 PM            

quote:

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I'm not suggesting that this IS what is going on. But it's possible. My father acted very angry with me anytime I expressed any depression.
Matter of fact, so did a couple of exes.

He (Harry) could be cold and heartless, I'll give you that. He could also just be clueless on how to handle it, for various reasons.
It's easy to blame others for our own pain. Sometimes we react in anger. Sometimes it's hard to face pain. We blame others for things that they trigger within us. We blame them for making us feel out of control.

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DopGang {{hugs}}
I agree with this. My mom was the same way, and had a traumatic past with her mother. The therapist I saw who helped me through high school told me that my depression pressed my mom's 'mom buttons,' and caused her to react in anger and shut down.
And in the case of my friend, his dad was in jail for the first 8 years of his life, and is a pretty cold guy.

But even if Harry didn't have a traumatic past, it's probably a similar defense mechanism, where he feels like emotions are something he can't help with, which makes him fear being abandoned, so in turn he dips before it can happen.
And yeah, it hurts because you were close, but the way I think of it is: "At least I can BE close to someone without shutting down like that." It's really a beautiful thing to be able to experience.I know my friend is very lonely inside, because I knew him pretty intimately. I would just tiptoe around his touchiness, like I did with my mom.

posted November 05, 2015 10:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:

I completely agree with you!

I actually thought the same thing myself...

But my question is... why is it that NOW, years after the event... he still has to be a jerk?

If he acknowledged that he did the wrong thing and was apologetic - that I could be ok with.
Or, if he did nothing at all - and was neutral, that would be fine too.

But acting like - *I* was in the wrong - and he is the damn victim??? And I should be the one to say sorry to him??

Like... what in God's name is he smoking?

"Oh I'm so sorry I had problems in my life and you couldn't be there for me. Please accept my heartfelt apologies for your cowardice"

^ Maybe I should email him that! lol

*Sigh*

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You know what, I think this has to do with the Cancer Mercury. My friend was actually the one who stopped talking to me first - I had no idea why, but I later concluded it to be because our mutual friend who he ditched had confided in me all of their drama (kind of uncool considering we were a trio, but I could see why she needed to let it out - there was not one person there for her at the time.). Anyway, I think he knew that she had talked crap about him to me, and then decided for himself that I would 'take her side' and ditched me before I could ditch him.
Needless to say, none of us are close anymore. Lol. So dysfunctional..

posted November 06, 2015 01:12 AM            

I knew one who lied about being RAPED so she can get pity. Trust me, is was a lie... She posted staged photos of cuts on her wrists! Obviously fake... AND SO OFFENSIVE to people actually going through that!!! and she would tell people she had this or that mental disorder when shes never even seen a psychiatrist she just "knew from reading about it." Ugh.

posted November 06, 2015 06:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Selenite:


But even if Harry didn't have a traumatic past, it's probably a similar defense mechanism, where he feels like emotions are something he can't help with, which makes him fear being abandoned, so in turn he dips before it can happen.
.

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Thanks!
Yes, this is what first popped into my head but I had to tell a long story. LOL
Given the info, I first thought of this.

Unless, he was in a relationship with someone else and it made him feel strange like he was over stepping with Sally while with another woman.
He must have felt uncomfortable. It makes people behave really strange. With Gemini moon, I'm not at all surprised. If it's uncomfortable, they'll flake out. It's ironic actually, that they can feel so uncomfortable and unable to deal with some emotions, yet they can certainly know how to use them to keep other awkward emotional situations at bay.
They're Kind of like "Saw" of the emotional realm. LOL Although in my experience they don't set out with malicious intent, yet, wrong is still wrong, right?

posted November 06, 2015 07:22 AM            

Hashing it out today, in the present? I don't know. I love Cancer Mercury as an intuitive, but when it comes to working out problems logically and methodically they really need a handler. I am my mother's handler. Left to herself, in an upsetting situation, she is delusional and reactive - very seriously delusional. And stubborn. The ONLY illogical reason I can get through to her when she's upset is because I'm her oldest daughter. She has a lot lot lot of Cancer and Scorpio, though.

Eventually she cries. I bet he cries in secret too...

My mother and father split for over 25 years. During that time she was so angry and hostile toward him. Her sisters and nieces found her hatred entertaining and jumped on the bandwagon. As I got older I understood her defenses better and realized she loved him deeply. My parents reconciled and became best friends. My mother's turnaround was shocking to so many people...

Anyway sorry to talk about my peeps so much, just Cancer in Mercury during conflict can be really tough to deal with.

Where's your Mercury/Mars in relationship to his Mercury?

posted November 06, 2015 07:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
"Oh I'm so sorry I had problems in my life and you couldn't be there for me. Please accept my heartfelt apologies for your cowardice"

^ Maybe I should email him that! lol

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LOL! Sounds good!

But what I meant to say is, relative to this:

quote:

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Later, something serious happens in Sally's life - and Harry avoids the situation. Sally lets Harry know she is going through a lot (like she's on the verge of saying "goodbye" to this life, because things get that bad) ... and Harry basically sends her some typical "well wishes" (that you would expect from a perfect stranger).

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Considering how men can be super uncomfortable when they are put in the "nurturing role" or feel like they are being forced into it...

He probably felt like he tried his best to comfort you, just by saying "Get well soon" or whatever.

When you didn't reply to that, apparently he was hurt.

I have soooooooooo many stories of men having no clue how to deal with unwell women. A close family member's wife had to go in for surgery and rather than

a) helping her
b) bringing flowers
c) or doing anything, really

posted November 06, 2015 07:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by bansheequeen:
Who is a villan who pretends that they are the victim? PISCES omg pisces pisces pisces they are the worst at acting like the victim when things get hard. "I crashed my car because YOU upset me two days ago!" **** like that... Ive seen pisces suns do this all the freaking time. They LOVE being the victim....

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Ouch! This hurts my feelings so bad! I feel like a victim right this moment.

(Psssst....thank you!)

posted November 06, 2015 07:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
^^ I feel like a butt for going on and on, telling a story. LOL

However, I find it interesting that you and I more or less have the same idea!

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What said is what I would have tried to say, just not as well as you did. When I read it I was like, good- DG took care of most of the explaining for me 😊

posted November 06, 2015 08:11 AM            

It sounds terrible, but if you could have seen him you wouldn't judge him. He always came to see me and always seemed so uninterested. One day in the middle of a private dance he grabbed the little trash can and vomited. Wtf!?! ...that's how I found out.

His wife knew where he was. She wanted him to stay with her, of course (!), but she never held it against him that he didn't/couldn't.

I just don't know what you say about that kind of pain.

Anyway we started having lunch together instead. She knew about that too, and wrote me a letter..

I guess the way people handle pain can be alarming, but the point is to try and identify or recognize it. It helps a lot to find compassion or forgiveness when what makes sense is to stick a fork up their ass.