posted February 26, 2016 02:17 PM            

Someone I know recently had a terrible thing happen to him. His parents got into a tragic accident, taking his mother on impact, and his father in in critical condition at the hospital.

What on his astrology chart would show this sort of event?

Occurred on 2/21/16 around 8:30pm.

(I don't know birth time)...

posted February 26, 2016 02:26 PM            

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posted February 26, 2016 02:27 PM            

You would need asteroids, too, I think

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posted February 26, 2016 04:00 PM            

It requires looking at transits and progressions separately with the orbs cut down, and the data edited to include known (noon) positions -- both in longitude and declinations. Only outer planet progressions are likely to be relevant here, since we don't know exact natal positions of faster moving planets.

Mars, Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto are the usual suspects collaborating in such an event.

Transits of Longitudes:

Uranus transits nearly exactly quincunx natal Mercury. This symbolizes abrupt, startling communication, the Mercurial natural rulership of transportation (I'm assuming it was an auto accident).

Mars transited at 25° Scorpio right on natal Sun.

Transits of Declinations:

Saturn and Pluto transit parallel natal Neptune. Mars (Mercury and Venus too) are parallel natal N.Node. This signifies events which act upon 'destiny' or future developments.

Progressions are largely useless here since there is no birth time, and much tighter orbs are needed to indicate active prog aspects. Only prog Venus appears to be range of parallel to natal Mercury, and possibly a conjunction to natal Sun. But that is speculation.

posted February 26, 2016 04:04 PM            

Other houses of endings (8th, 12th) may also be involved.

Auto accidents relate to the 3rd/ruler or Mercury.

posted February 26, 2016 07:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I don't see TR Uranus

You would need asteroids, too, I think

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posted February 26, 2016 07:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
In principle, the correct chart will show death to a parent as transits to angles/4th/10th or their rulers. A correct chart progressed to that date will show the same dynamics in to those natal factors or from those progressed factors to natal points.

Other houses of endings (8th, 12th) may also be involved.

Auto accidents relate to the 3rd/ruler or Mercury.

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posted February 27, 2016 12:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Which asteroids should I add?

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Ami hasn't answered yet but I'm curious about Atropos and Pholus.

posted February 27, 2016 01:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
What does their natal chart look like?

If you don't have time of birth, you can construct the positions to a Noon time.

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Here it is (birth time unknown--so I set it at Noon)

posted February 27, 2016 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Ami hasn't answered yet but I'm curious about Atropos and Pholus.

Really sorry for your friend.

---

Here you go:

posted February 27, 2016 03:03 PM            

Uranus, Saturn and Moon are involved in a T-square formation.

Uranus in Scorpio opposite Moon in Taurus. And both of those planets square natal Saturn in Leo.

Moon/Uranus natal aspect often suggest that one's sense of security(Moon)is always changing(Uranus).

It also shows emotional(Moon) excitement (Uranus)or upheavals. Usually also suggesting a challenging relationship with the maternal figure(Moon).

Now the added square of Saturn suggests inhibition. One who feels a lot internally but is against expressing themselves or letting the emotions flow.

I don't know what kind of relationship that the individual had with his mother. But this aspects is a natal "hot spot" for emotional triggers.

She may have been a woman to suppress her feelings or not be able to express them successfully- without feeling awkward.

The natal Venus conjunct Pluto exacerbates this. Often Pluto touching on Venus suggests that our emotional nature/need to bond with others is strong and intense.

In extreme cases, Pluto on Venus can also suggest that one undergoes some type of loss/total perspective change(Pluto) with regards to relationships/people they love(Venus)

Its also interesting to note that Solar Arc Mars is conjunct his natal Moon in Leo this whole year. So this aspect triggered the Uranus/Moon/Saturn T-square.

I do wonder, with Mars added therein-whether the relationship with family(specifically the mother), was somewhat strained or going through some difficulties/misunderstandings?

Also noted is the added transit of Mercury/Venus conjunct in Aquarius that forms a grand cross formation with the natal T-square on the day of the accident.

So we see that issues/changes with the home/mother/emotional nature suggested by the Moon/Uranus/Saturn T-square reaction with these planets.

External manifestations are usually a materialization of certain chasms within. So I suspect that this year was one that was going to uproot all sorts of emotional upsets/changes.

A tenuous relationship with the home is suggested by the solar Arc Mars conjunct natal Moon (activating other planets in aspect to it).

The added Mercury/Venus conjunction of Aquarius opposing natal erratic Uranus- often an indication of communication problems. This aspects also acts with other planets in the natal T-square.

These are the triggers I see. With so much aspects around the Moon, his emotional base/home center is suggested to have been the "flux" where changes would be likely to happen. One of which suggests the loss of the mother?

posted February 27, 2016 07:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Its interesting.

Uranus, Saturn and Moon are involved in a T-square formation.

Uranus in Scorpio opposite Moon in Taurus. And both of those planets square natal Saturn in Leo.

Moon/Uranus natal aspect often suggest that one's sense of security(Moon)is always changing(Uranus).

It also shows emotional(Moon) excitement (Uranus)or upheavals. Usually also suggesting a challenging relationship with the maternal figure(Moon).

Now the added square of Saturn suggests inhibition. One who feels a lot internally but is against expressing themselves or letting the emotions flow.

I don't know what kind of relationship that the individual had with his mother. But this aspects is a natal "hot spot" for emotional triggers.

She may have been a woman to suppress her feelings or not be able to express them successfully- without feeling awkward.

The natal Venus conjunct Pluto exacerbates this. Often Pluto touching on Venus suggests that our emotional nature/need to bond with others is strong and intense.

In extreme cases, Pluto on Venus can also suggest that one undergoes some type of loss/total perspective change(Pluto) with regards to relationships/people they love(Venus)

Its also interesting to note that Solar Arc Mars is conjunct his natal Moon in Leo this whole year. So this aspect triggered the Uranus/Moon/Saturn T-square.

I do wonder, with Mars added therein-whether the relationship with family(specifically the mother), was somewhat strained or going through some difficulties/misunderstandings?

Also noted is the added transit of Mercury/Venus conjunct in Aquarius that forms a grand cross formation with the natal T-square on the day of the accident.

So we see that issues/changes with the home/mother/emotional nature suggested by the Moon/Uranus/Saturn T-square reaction with these planets.

External manifestations are usually a materialization of certain chasms within. So I suspect that this year was one that was going to uproot all sorts of emotional upsets/changes.

A tenuous relationship with the home is suggested by the solar Arc Mars conjunct natal Moon (activating other planets in aspect to it).

The added Mercury/Venus conjunction of Aquarius opposing natal erratic Uranus- often an indication of communication problems. This aspects also acts with other planets in the natal T-square.

These are the triggers I see. With so much aspects around the Moon, his emotional base/home center is suggested to have been the "flux" where changes would be likely to happen. One of which suggests the loss of the mother?

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I need to read through this a few times to understand--you certainly know your astrology!

One thing--his natal moon is Taurus...

I noticed in his natal that he has Moon inconjunct Pluto--which could mean a difficult relationship with the mother? I hope not, that will mean this loss will be ridden with pain and guilt...

Are you saying that he is having communication issues at home -- whether that be with his wife/children--or more specifically his Mom?

I'm wondering given his Scorpio sun and Pluto/Venus--how he is going handle all of this?

posted February 27, 2016 10:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Here you go:

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Thank you.

Atropos ("cutter of the cord of life") was at 7 Aries on Feb 21st, square his progressed sun. Tr Neptune is conjunct his Pholus (representing sudden, life-altering changes). I've seen Neptune in death charts a lot, but this is a strange one.

posted February 27, 2016 10:13 PM            

quote:

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Uranus, Saturn and Moon are involved in a T-square formation.

Uranus in Scorpio opposite Moon in Taurus. And both of those planets square natal Saturn in Leo.

---

quote:

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I noticed in his natal that he has Moon inconjunct Pluto--

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If his birth time is unknown then the above statements contain speculations. The Moon moved between about 4 and 17° Taurus on the date of his birth. So a such a t-square is uncertain. A quincunx/inconjunct/150° covers only about 6° of that area at most, thus only about 50% likely.

quote:

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His father made it out of the critical status--and is in rehab hospital...so some good news there!

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That is good to hear

posted February 27, 2016 10:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thank you.

Atropos ("cutter of the cord of life") was at 7 Aries on Feb 21st, square his progressed sun. Tr Neptune is conjunct his Pholus (representing sudden, life-altering changes). I've seen Neptune in death charts a lot, but this is a strange one.

Can you tell us where the accident happened (time zone)?

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Hi--it was Eastern Time Zone.

posted February 28, 2016 01:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Are you saying that he is having communication issues at home -- whether that be with his wife/children--or more specifically his Mom?

---

What I am saying is that there seems to be a lot of action surrounding his natal T-square formation now. Specifically the Moon.

At the time of the incident Mercury/Venus was opposing Uranus and reacting with the natal T-square

And he also has his solar arc Mars in Leo squaring his natal Moon(not a conjunction as I said earlier, my mistake). Which often indicates a pressure cooker and tendency for one to be very touchy emotionally.

So many aspects with the Moon suggests a very uncomfortable place emotionally right now.

Will he be able to handle this? I think with pluto/Venus conjunct, it will certainly take time. Pluto works very much beneath the surface and then explodes.

And the added Saturn in Leo sitting on emotional Moon in Taurus /erratic Uranus in Scorpio ,suggests that he is a person who resists responding spontaneously to things. Wants to let things simmer.

posted February 28, 2016 12:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
What I am saying is that there seems to be a lot of action surrounding his natal T-square formation now. Specifically the Moon.

At the time of the incident Mercury/Venus was opposing Uranus and reacting with the natal T-square

And he also has his solar arc Mars in Leo squaring his natal Moon(not a conjunction as I said earlier, my mistake). Which often indicates a pressure cooker and tendency for one to be very touchy emotionally.

So many aspects with the Moon suggests a very uncomfortable place emotionally right now.

Will he be able to handle this? I think with pluto/Venus conjunct, it will certainly take time. Pluto works very much beneath the surface and then explodes.

And the added Saturn in Leo sitting on emotional Moon in Taurus /erratic Uranus in Scorpio ,suggests that he is a person who resists responding spontaneously to things. Wants to let things simmer.

The problem with Saturn at times is that it suppresses. And what it suppresses often crystallizes and forms all sorts of psychological hangups and fears- sometimes even materializing into physical dis-ease.

---

Wow--you are so right on about his personality. He is not a person that shows his emotions--and he does let things simmer, even pauses to for a bit to see reactions, and even then may or may not respond. He's a highly internalized person it seems.

That's what's the most uncomfortable part about all of this--he does not share his emotions and inner world very easily--and so I have no idea besides many external things--who he is.

Is there something I can do to help him share? Given his placements--how do I make him feel safe enough to talk if he needs to. I want to make sure I'm there for him in the way that works for him.

posted February 28, 2016 01:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Wow--you are so right on about his personality. He is not a person that shows his emotions--and he does let things simmer, even pauses to for a bit to see reactions, and even then may or may not respond. He's a highly internalized person it seems.

That's what's the most uncomfortable part about all of this--he does not share his emotions and inner world very easily--and so I have no idea besides many external things--who he is.

Is there something I can do to help him share? Given his placements--how do I make him feel safe enough to talk if he needs to. I want to make sure I'm there for him in the way that works for him.

---

As a Venus/Saturn conjunct myself, I do get the knee jerk reaction for one to contain emotions as not to seem "irrational" or erratic etc.

What is most instrumental in my case, is my Moon/Mercury opposition. I just talk it out or write about it. But it gets out there.

There is a wide conjunction between the Sun and Mercury in Scorpio. So there is a need to "sort" or make sense of life(Mercury) through ego experiences(Sun)

Venus/Pluto is prone to extremes. But that
Moon in Taurus wants things to always seem "under control";so here is a tendency for one to act in one way and then say "what was that?"- oblivious to an intense reaction to something.

There is a part of him that is struggling for emotional freedom(Moon-Uranus), whilst the other is trapped and confined to responsibility(Moon-Saturn).

Perhaps there is also a fear that once he takes his eye off the ball, that his whole world will change? (Uranus square Saturn).

What you can do

1. Don't "baby" him. Saturn tends to resent this and closes up that much more. So ease up on the hugs and the "shame. I am sorry about what happened to you" looks. Unless he initiates physical contact.

2.Treat him with a certain formality. Minimize sentimentality and tears. You are not being cold, you are just seeing him in his whole self. And his whole self is not locked in grief.

3.Let him provide cues for when he wants to talk and don't "probe" for answers that will satisfy you.

4.Relieve some of the responsibilities that he has that are within your reach. And tell him after its done.

If you can do certain errands at no strain or small things to make life easier. Do that. But tell him AFTER its done and not before. This will make him feel supported.

5. Talk with regards to the future/in future terms and the success of something that has materialized from past to present.

This will remind him that life really does go on. And that there are things to look forward to.

6.Allow him time alone.But be sure to leave brief messages that are personal on his phone now and then i.e

"Just heard that awful TK song from that end year function we had lol. Smiled when thinking back about what you said."

This latter message I sent to a colleague when their Mom passed away. I steered away from any condolences or emphasizing the "ending" of life and looked for precious moments that could only be recalled by she and I.

Its a small gesture but it makes a world of differences in the end.

When you are dealing with a Saturnine person(a person with strong aspects to Saturn or with Saturn/Moon involved in a T-square formation) less is more.

I hope this helps.

posted February 28, 2016 01:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
As a Venus/Saturn conjunct myself, I do get the knee jerk reaction for one to contain emotions as not to seem "irrational" or erratic etc.

What is most instrumental in my case, is my Moon/Mercury opposition. I just talk it out or write about it. But it gets out there.

There is a wide conjunction between the Sun and Mercury in Scorpio. So there is a need to "sort" or make sense of life(Mercury) through ego experiences(Sun)

Venus/Pluto is prone to extremes. But that
Moon in Taurus wants things to always seem "under control";so here is a tendency for one to act in one way and then say "what was that?"- oblivious to an intense reaction to something.

There is a part of him that is struggling for emotional freedom(Moon-Uranus), whilst the other is trapped and confined to responsibility(Moon-Saturn).

Perhaps there is also a fear that once he takes his eye off the ball, that his whole world will change? (Uranus square Saturn).

What you can do

1. Don't "baby" him. Saturn tends to resent this and closes up that much more. So ease up on the hugs and the "shame. I am sorry about what happened to you" looks. Unless he initiates physical contact.

2.Treat him with a certain formality. Minimize sentimentality and tears. You are not being cold, you are just seeing him in his whole self. And his whole self is not locked in grief.

3.Let him provide cues for when he wants to talk and don't "probe" for answers that will satisfy you.

4.Relieve some of the responsibilities that he has that are within your reach. And tell him after its done.

If you can do certain errands at no strain or small things to make life easier. Do that. But tell him AFTER its done and not before. This will make him feel supported.

5. Talk with regards to the future/in future terms and the success of something that has materialized from past to present.

This will remind him that life really does go on. And that there are things to look forward to.

6.Allow him time alone.But be sure to leave brief messages that are personal on his phone now and then i.e

"Just heard that awful TK song from that end year function we had lol. Smiled when thinking back about what you said."

This latter message I sent to a colleague when their Mom passed away. I steered away from any condolences or emphasizing the "ending" of life and looked for precious moments that could only be recalled by she and I.

Its a small gesture but it makes a world of differences in the end.

When you are dealing with a Saturnine person(a person with strong aspects to Saturn or with Saturn/Moon involved in a T-square formation) less is more.

I hope this helps.

---

It does Aries 23--thank you so much!

posted February 28, 2016 02:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Hi--it was Eastern Time Zone.

Wow--didn't think Neptune would be the culprit...but conjunct--maybe that's why the mother was taken, and with the square, the father was taken temporarily, but "worked it out (surgeries)" and he was able to come through given the Sun = father?

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At 8:30 on the East Coast, the moon was at 24 Leo, exactly square 24 Scorpio Mars, exactly on his sun.

The transiting ASC at 8:30, in NYC, was at 7 Libra, opposing his Atropos exactly.

A bit later the ASC was on his Pluto.

It's all interesting but the transiting moon-Mars square hitting his sun, all exact, seems very illustrative of the problem that night...to put it mildly. Mars creates action, the moon represents the mother...the square shows tension against the mother...and the fact that it's right on his sun shows how personally this affects him. I do wonder when his mother was born.

I also wonder if his pr moon is conjunct Uranus.

posted February 28, 2016 03:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
At 8:30 on the East Coast, the moon was at 24 Leo, exactly square 24 Scorpio Mars, exactly on his sun.

The transiting ASC at 8:30, in NYC, was at 7 Libra, opposing his Atropos exactly.

A bit later the ASC was on his Pluto.

It's all interesting but the transiting moon-Mars square hitting his sun, all exact, seems very illustrative of the problem that night...to put it mildly. Mars creates action, the moon represents the mother...the square shows tension against the mother...and the fact that it's right on his sun shows how personally this affects him. I do wonder when his mother was born.

I also wonder if his pr moon is conjunct Uranus.

What a sad story...I hope his family finds peace, comfort and health again.

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Oh wow, what timing.