posted April 26, 2016 02:50 PM            

Opinions? Insights?

Note: Sorry I didn't make this thread clear Iam aware that the 12th house is also the house of secrets but feel in a different way than the 8th because the 12th house I see is our unconscious its when we dream when we are in a lucid state channeling meditating gurus isolation things we make sure are very hidden from others but also self delusion. Where areas I see the 8th house as lying and hiding CONSCIOUSLY, the spiritual physical plane, physical death etc. The reason I mentioned manipulation as an 8th house theme because I noticed a lot of power struggles involved with pluto in synastry which comes with lying, manipulation, passive aggressiveness in order to obtain power of the other person especially when dealing with unevolved scorpios in my experience Cmon the 8th house is also the house of secrets as well

Please do not Quote thank you!

posted April 26, 2016 05:36 PM            

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Originally posted by NeptunianSag:
The 8th house is also the house of being a jerk or a douchebag either coming from others or yourself. I think this is the house of crazy.

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I can see that my old crush has his casanova in libra in the 8th house conjunct my ascendant exact and he flirted with me first made moves on me and when I decided to open up to him emotionally one day he denied he ever had interest in me that he was just being friendly yeah....sure.....very unsympathetic for a casanova.....My ascendant conjuncts his 8th house cusp.

posted April 26, 2016 06:15 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Hiding, secrets, lying, crazy etc. are all (negative) keywords for the 12th House, not the 8th. If anything, I'd associate the 8th with truth, especially the painful kinds of truths that burn right down to rock bottom. Key words for the 8th often given are crisis, rebirth, regeneration, death, resurrection, sexuality, life force, birth...all kinds of issues that confront one with the deepest and darkest aspects of reality. So I'd say those things that you mentioned in the OP don't describe the 8th House as such very well.

Manipulation can be a negative Pluto and/or Neptune thing, lying can often be symbolized by Neptune afflictions. I don't think that such kinds of issues are the business of any particular house tbh, I'd look at planetary interactions for that. But keep in mind that the same things that symbolize lies also symbolize phantasy and intuition... and that positive Pluto stuff is so much more than just "manipulation".

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Thank you I will think about what you said.

posted April 26, 2016 06:31 PM            

I do know that I have been mystified by people thinking I was flirting with them, coming on to them, leading them on, when I had no such intent. Yet they were convinced of it. Somehow their imagination got them into thinking I liked them "that way" and when they were wrong, they couldn't accept that it was a mistake on their part. I remember one who came onto me and we'd just met, and so used to that I flashed a ring and said I was married while I kept going, but he was sure I was interested, just scared of being caught by my husband! Some are so ridiculous that there was one guy who assumed every 10 year old was trying to seduce him, but no one else (as he was only attracted to that age group). So I've come to seriously doubt when I hear someone is leading someone else on (and it does happen to males as well).

Though I have noticed many self-proclaimed "experts" telling both men and women that if someone as so much as acknowledges your existence in a friendly way, that it's a come on, which is a disservice to their audience. It's so ridiculous, but I think many people WANT to believe it (it can help them feel very desirable), and the media will sell people what they want to hear easier than the truth.

posted April 26, 2016 07:48 PM            

so Angel, you have a 12th house JupterRx? is it your Asc. ruler?
very cool, me too in Sag.

posted April 26, 2016 08:22 PM            

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Originally posted by lalalinda:
I agree it's a 12th house function.

so Angel, you have a 12th house JupterRx? is it your Asc. ruler?
very cool, me too in Sag.

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yeah i do and no its not my ascendant ruler but its SQUARING my ASCENDANT RULER.

posted April 26, 2016 09:43 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I read it, and I'd have to be there to say anything more.

But since you asked, I can say that some guys are indeed awkward around girls and everyone (even when there are no romantic tensions), and guys can be told to compliment a woman's looks (they often get mixed messages about this which can add to their awkwardness). If he's in high school or less then he may just be a bit immature in handling his feelings which are too intense for him at the moment, so he wants to take it slow as he continues to work up the nerve. An alternative is he's trying to hide the fact that he's gay by appearing to show interest in girls but panicking when one appears like she's about to nibble his bait (tip: don't ask him). At least he doesn't sound like the very unpleasant kind of guy (typically in high school or middle school) who flirts and then brags to his friends about the girls hanging onto him that don't have a chance and/or lies about the sex he's having with you.

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thanks PixieJane yeah i don't want to get to into this person but i understand i wish you were there too, in order to witness all my friends are by my side with this including my ex.

I think this could be a 12th house issue indeed however i do see strong power struggles and mind games with him and i feel pluto and lilith is responsible for this, we have venus conjunct pluto in the composite in the 12th house. His priapus conjunct's my dejanira in synastry, his nessus conjunct my anti-vertex and opposite my moon exact, my nessus does nothing expect square his chiron, my chiron forms a t square with his sun/venus opposition moon. nessus is conjunct his name asteroid in the composite. my name in the composite aspects his venus squares his dejanira. and DW lilith square venus/sun, pluto square the sun in progressed synastry the list goes on.....

and to note my sun and saturn overlay his 12th house and my neptune conjunct his 12th house cusp. and strong vertex activation in synastry.

power struggles are indeed there....

posted April 26, 2016 11:27 PM            

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Hiding, secrets, lying, crazy etc. are all (negative) keywords for the 12th House, not the 8th. If anything, I'd associate the 8th with truth, especially the painful kinds of truths that burn right down to rock bottom. Key words for the 8th often given are crisis, rebirth, regeneration, death, resurrection, sexuality, life force, birth...all kinds of issues that confront one with the deepest and darkest aspects of reality. So I'd say those things that you mentioned in the OP don't describe the 8th House as such very well.

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Yes. I would add:

Trust, handling other people's money, serets, vulnerabilities, or confidence.

Truth, seeing beneath the surface,understanding, acceptance.

Merging with another, surrendering self, standing apart, standing alone (lather, rinse, repeat... ugh!).

You say it is the house of crazy? I say it's one of the most infuriatingly sane houses there is. The other houses live in their self created delusions or fantasies to avoid seeing truth.

posted April 27, 2016 09:53 AM            

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I have to agree with the 12th house being more prone to self delusion than the 8th. Think about it like the signs: Pisces will want to deceive themselves and become an escapist whereas Scorpio will be brutally honest. The 8th house may want to hide the truth from others but they aren't afraid of the truth itself.

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And I have to disagree that scorpio is a truthful sign because I still see the sign as secrets i see this sign as very indirect and passive and manipulative and sneaky when dealing with confrontation compared to aries. I think they can be truthful absolutely but when they WANT to be. I've often noticed.

posted April 27, 2016 03:20 PM            

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Originally posted by angel4845:

Yeah that's what I mean that the 8th house is the house of conscious secrets and lying to others and knowing that your lying and hiding it and the 12th house is the house of unconscious secrets and lying through self denial or self delusion.

And I have to disagree that scorpio is a truthful sign because I still see the sign as secrets i see this sign as very indirect and passive and manipulative and sneaky when dealing with confrontation compared to aries. I think they can be truthful absolutely but when they WANT to be. I've often noticed.

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Everybody is indirect when compared to Aries. Everybody is dishonest when compared to Sagittarius.

I can't make a blanket statement about everybody with a placement in 8th house any more than you can. That said, if someone with a strong 8th house lies, manipulates, or cheats for their own ends, they are only hurting themselves, and the 8th house will bite them in the end.

posted April 27, 2016 03:40 PM            

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Originally posted by lalalinda:
I agree it's a 12th house function.

so Angel, you have a 12th house JupterRx? is it your Asc. ruler?
very cool, me too in Sag.

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So does my husband!

posted April 27, 2016 03:47 PM            

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I remember one who came onto me and we'd just met, and so used to that I flashed a ring and said I was married while I kept going, but he was sure I was interested, just scared of being caught by my husband!

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posted April 27, 2016 04:07 PM            

Think, angel....does that guy know you are posting about him on the internet? How would he feel? Is that up front or hidden?

Not judging you, just saying, nobody but NOBODY is an open book, the truth is, we are all open and closed. And many times, the person who can afford to be more open simply has more power in the relationship, and the other person is hiding to preserve control of whatever the other person is trying to control.

For instance my friend's mother constantly tells her father what to do. So her father lies. He's a fine upstanding man but he outright dodges her attempts to know every little thing about his business. Good for him.

It bothers me when people talk about 12H/ Pisces "hiding" without including the balance: what are they hiding from? WHY are the hiding...is it because they honestly believe there is a higher purpose to that?

Can there be a higher purpose to that?

Maybe people ought to evolve so they understand that love can still mean, retaining your own privacy and independence.

Just another way of looking at it.

ETA: One of my favorite authors who has a Scorpio sun wrote about the importance of granting the other person privacy. Her little motto is, "When we mine, we undermine."

posted April 27, 2016 04:23 PM            

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Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Everybody is indirect when compared to Aries. Everybody is dishonest when compared to Sagittarius.

I can't make a blanket statement about everybody with a placement in 8th house any more than you can. That said, if someone with a strong 8th house lies, manipulates, or cheats for their own ends, they are only hurting themselves, and the 8th house will bite them in the end.

Ultimately, the 8th teaches you about power. That's one of the domains of Pluto. Misuse it at your own peril.

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I completely agree with this. I have 5 planets in the 8th house including a Moon/Pluto conjunction and 3 planets in Scorpio. I am aware that I have the ability to manipulate anyone because I can read people easily, but I think manipulative behavior is beneath me. I cannot stand when people lie or attempt to manipulate me, so I don't do it to others.

posted April 27, 2016 04:26 PM            

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Originally posted by angel4845:
Yeah that's what I mean that the 8th house is the house of conscious secrets and lying to others and knowing that your lying and hiding it and the 12th house is the house of unconscious secrets and lying through self denial or self delusion.

And I have to disagree that scorpio is a truthful sign because I still see the sign as secrets i see this sign as very indirect and passive and manipulative and sneaky when dealing with confrontation compared to aries. I think they can be truthful absolutely but when they WANT to be. I've often noticed.

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posted April 27, 2016 04:58 PM            

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
I completely agree with this. I have 5 planets in the 8th house including a Moon/Pluto conjunction and 3 planets in Scorpio. I am aware that I have the ability to manipulate anyone because I can read people easily, but I think manipulative behavior is beneath me. I cannot stand when people lie or attempt to manipulate me, so I don't do it to others.

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Exactly what im saying man I agree

posted April 27, 2016 04:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Everybody is indirect when compared to Aries. Everybody is dishonest when compared to Sagittarius.

I can't make a blanket statement about everybody with a placement in 8th house any more than you can. That said, if someone with a strong 8th house lies, manipulates, or cheats for their own ends, they are only hurting themselves, and the 8th house will bite them in the end.

Ultimately, the 8th teaches you about power. That's one of the domains of Pluto. Misuse it at your own peril.

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I agree gemini blues