posted September 25, 2016 07:48 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
With all due respect, you are changing the subject way off course.

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posted September 25, 2016 09:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
In what cases are you referring to? If you want scientific answers you need to provide actual cases. I have a friend with Autism and he hates when anti-vaxers use autism as the worst possible thing when their children could actually die from something preventable. Since you have provided no cases I'll offer a psychological point of view, autism often isn't something that develops at the same time, sometimes it happens very young (toddler) or later into adolescence. Sometimes (depending on where the child is on the spectrum) symptoms are not really that noticeable until they get older or until the parent starts questioning.

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Im sorry but I HAVE to comment on the statement above because its so callous.

I give you the most ridiculous killing vaxine : Gardasil. A HPV vaccine, designed for 2 out of 16 HPV virus strands, unfortunately not the two that actually cause cervical cancer. So its completely useless in what its supposed to do, but very effective at killing children. I stopped checking the stats because its heartbreaking.

Gardsil was only tested for 6 months (instead of the usual 4 years) and was then fast-tracked by the FDA at which time, Merck stopped testing and began to market it. There is no proof that Gardasil or Cervarix prevents HPV, however it is known to exacerbate existing HPV infections. A known side-effect is sterility. Another side-effect is death. Serious allegations against the Gardasil and Cerverix vaccine trials affecting thousands of girls have been accepted by the Supreme Court of India. Some of the girls died. Some suffered serious adverse effects. Some of the girls developed autoimmune diseases that will require lifelong care.

The manufacturers themselves acknowledged adverse events such as anaphylactic shock, seizures and paralysis, motor neuron disease, blood clots, eye, ear and vascular problems and even death, and problems affecting the nervous system, the immune system, the musculoskeletal system, the blood and lymphatic system, the respiratory system, the gastrointestinal system and the vascular system. In the PATH project, these adverse events were grossly under-reported and hidden. Records were falsified. Deaths that took place were stated as having nothing to do with the administering of the vaccines and were described as deaths due to suicides, insecticide poisoning and snake bites.
This is how scientific studies are done, in poor countries where you can buy your results and hush the inconvenient truth.

In 2007 GSK made $3.6 billion on 1 vaccine alone. Multiply this by number of different vaccines on the market and then by number of manufacturing companies, and you will get the reason why the deaths dont matter.

My next hate is Hexavac, followed by MMR and the list goes on. If you want stats then go get them yourself.

To you and all pro vax people - I suggest you get yourself on the program and take all the 42 required vaccines over two years. Make sure you increase the vax to body ratio, 1 child dose per 4 kg of your body weight. Because,just like the baby, you should get the relevant amount of thimerosal, Formaldehyde , Aborted Baby Fetus Tissue and Human Albumin, Antifreeze, Aluminum, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phenol, Methanol and a long list of other utter crap.
If you live through it then we can talk.

posted September 25, 2016 10:28 PM            

A close friend of mine doesn't believe in astrology, but she at least checked it out before criticizing it. It's not like it's a big deal to her, though, and she finds closed minded people who wrap themselves in science as annoying as those who wrap themselves in the mystical. She actually has some surreal beliefs of her own, and she does accept a lot more of the paranormal than many do.

posted September 25, 2016 11:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Novabronte:

Im sorry but I HAVE to comment on the statement above because its so callous.

I give you the most ridiculous killing vaxine : Gardasil. A HPV vaccine, designed for 2 out of 16 HPV virus strands, unfortunately not the two that actually cause cervical cancer. So its completely useless in what its supposed to do, but very effective at killing children. I stopped checking the stats because its heartbreaking.

Gardsil was only tested for 6 months (instead of the usual 4 years) and was then fast-tracked by the FDA at which time, Merck stopped testing and began to market it. There is no proof that Gardasil or Cervarix prevents HPV, however it is known to exacerbate existing HPV infections. A known side-effect is sterility. Another side-effect is death. Serious allegations against the Gardasil and Cerverix vaccine trials affecting thousands of girls have been accepted by the Supreme Court of India. Some of the girls died. Some suffered serious adverse effects. Some of the girls developed autoimmune diseases that will require lifelong care.

The manufacturers themselves acknowledged adverse events such as anaphylactic shock, seizures and paralysis, motor neuron disease, blood clots, eye, ear and vascular problems and even death, and problems affecting the nervous system, the immune system, the musculoskeletal system, the blood and lymphatic system, the respiratory system, the gastrointestinal system and the vascular system. In the PATH project, these adverse events were grossly under-reported and hidden. Records were falsified. Deaths that took place were stated as having nothing to do with the administering of the vaccines and were described as deaths due to suicides, insecticide poisoning and snake bites.
This is how scientific studies are done, in poor countries where you can buy your results and hush the inconvenient truth.

In 2007 GSK made $3.6 billion on 1 vaccine alone. Multiply this by number of different vaccines on the market and then by number of manufacturing companies, and you will get the reason why the deaths dont matter.

My next hate is Hexavac, followed by MMR and the list goes on. If you want stats then go get them yourself.

To you and all pro vax people - I suggest you get yourself on the program and take all the 42 required vaccines over two years. Make sure you increase the vax to body ratio, 1 child dose per 4 kg of your body weight. Because,just like the baby, you should get the relevant amount of thimerosal, Formaldehyde , Aborted Baby Fetus Tissue and Human Albumin, Antifreeze, Aluminum, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phenol, Methanol and a long list of other utter crap.
If you live through it then we can talk.

You want to injure your own child, fine. Don't force me to do it to mine.

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Show me your sources, please make them credible as well. I got all the vaccines as a child. I got the Gardasil vaccine when I was 13. A few of my friends have HPV but none that were vaccinated (including me) do. Parents have a choice whether or not to give gardasil anyways, unlike other very important vaccines. You don't see people dying from influenza and polio (number 1 cause of death in 1900) anymore because of vaccinations for those things.

Also Gardasil is effective against HPV types 16 and 18 which cause 70% of cervical cancers, and against HPV types 6 and 11 which cause 90% of genital warts. It is expected to prevent up to 70% of cervical cancers. I'm glad I was vaxed. My boyfriend is a MD and a PHD is biomolecular disease, and he was vaccinated with gardisal too because men can get hpv as well. So arw tou telling me someone who has had (so far years to go) 8 years of medical training that he'should wrong for getting vaccinated? I want to become a medical psychologist, I will have 9 years of medical and pyschological experience. Truth is vaccines work. There is proof gardasil works and just because some unvaccinated kids dont get these preventable diseases is because of herd immunity. Please educate yourself past sketchy websites. http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/ucm096052.htm

posted September 26, 2016 07:09 AM            

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So I always feel a little angry when people who are anti-vaxxers try to pretend to be smarter than myself and other vaccine givers/receivers. They find sketchy things online or read something from a sketchy source and believe that somehow they now have more knowledge about health than a doctor or a medical professional.

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Many became "anti-vaxxers" (insulting term) after their children were vaccine-damaged.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJpPObXpZncOfT0bG2ghgkVb2Nxjd_bNe

posted September 26, 2016 08:27 AM            

Thanks for saying something.

I just have too much to say, which is why I shouldn't even go there.

But here's something about science in general ~ the corruptibility of it ~ that is sort of on topic:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-smith/youre-appointing-who-plea_b_243810.html

http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/ce nter-science-and-democracy/promoting-scientific-integrity/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html#.V-kJQ00rKgA

posted September 26, 2016 06:41 PM            

There's risk either way, and I hate that parents get blamed for "putting their children at risk" no matter what they do.

posted September 26, 2016 08:36 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
^ I saw but was on my way out.

There's risk either way, and I hate that parents get blamed for "putting their children at risk" no matter what they do.

Hope it goes well.

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Thank you, I really get heated about that as well.

It's like there's a constant PSA telling parents that they're doing it wrong. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's wrong.

posted September 27, 2016 10:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:

As a future scientist and psychologist myself I agree with you. My MD PHD scientist boyfriend does not believe in astrology because there is no proof, he knows how it works because I taught him, but he there still doesn't believe because there is no scientific proof. I sometimes struggle to believe it as well.

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posted September 27, 2016 02:44 PM            

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Astrology is absolutely verifiable and provable. Why shouldn't it be?

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posted September 30, 2016 12:51 AM            

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
BeholdAstarte, I am sorry I derailed your thread. I saw Novabronte's comment and felt I needed to respond. I in no way want to disrespect you or any other person. My field is in science, my bachelors is in behavioral neuroscience and I know much about immunity. Especially artificial immunity, and herd immunity. So I always feel a little angry when people who are anti-vaxxers try to pretend to be smarter than myself and other vaccine givers/receivers. They find sketchy things online or read something from a sketchy source and believe that somehow they now have more knowledge about health than a doctor or a medical professional. Also, the topic of autism always comes up and one of my better friends has autism and showed signs way before he got all of his vaccines. So to me, that is something incredibly offensive. I will not continue engaging anyone, again, sorry for the derailment.

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Oh es ok, no worries. I'm open to all opinions, I don't really have any expectations on how this topic/conversation would flow. I like to hear what people have to say, or offer

posted September 30, 2016 01:14 AM            

lies are annoying! And the false claims that astrologers are basically fools for not knowing there's a "13th zodiac" which is ridiculous, and are not aware of precession and and the sidereal zodiac is entirely arrogant also. Tropical zodiac was adopted over 2,000 years ago!! It's a joke that this "new discovery" by "scientists" and "skeptics" is what will be held against it to debunk the actual value of astrology..

I suppose I can see where someone can come from when they see or hear about astrology on the basic sun signs all the time from people and don't relate to their sun. So finding an article that claims that is false will just be readily accepted like "oh I knew it, astrology is just a bunch of ******** " and don't feel like they need to go any further.

posted September 30, 2016 01:31 AM            

Science means observational study. And what about astrology isn't an observational study? I wouldn't considerate it a science, but I think the amount of research, and analyses and input that is so widely put into astrology is so valid on so many levels!! Especially how long too throughout history. It's amazing really.

posted October 02, 2016 07:37 PM            

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Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Also I want to ask all the anti-vaxers out there, where is your scientific proof? Also, is it really that horrible to have a child with autism? If I had a choice of my child dying from a preventable disease or my child having autism, autism wins every time. But the solid proof is still that vaccines do not cause autism, so it doesn't matter anyways.

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Vaccinations dont cause autism. The causal link was never EVER proven.

The Dr who suggested the link in the first place has been struck off the medical register in the United Kingdom (which is where he is from) and the paper he wrote withdrawn as it was utter nonsense, not conducted properly, etc.

This happened many years ago. Here is a link to a British Medical Journal article about how the link between autism and MMR was based on fraudulent work:
http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452

Also do you know that Japan banned the MMR vaccine and yet cases of Autism continued to rise anyway. You cant blame the vaccine.

I think astrology belief goes too far sometimes. It is intersting but you cant live your life by it.

I once saw a poster on here ask if she should make a job move now or next year and she decided to postpone it because the sky looked more favourable next year. You cant live life like that. It suggests that your actions dont matter and is fatalistic.

My sister has an Aries child. Every time she gets hyper and has a tantrum: typical Aries my sister says. Ummm no: typical 3 year old.

posted October 02, 2016 07:53 PM            

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Originally posted by AmelieRose81:
My sister has an Aries child. Every time she gets hyper and has a tantrum: typical Aries my sister says. Ummm no: typical 3 year old.

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Typical Aries?

HAHAHAHAHA!

posted October 02, 2016 07:55 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Typical Aries?

HAHAHAHAHA!

An Aries should have words with your sister (and hope they don't prove her point while trying to deny it ).

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posted October 02, 2016 09:20 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
It only annoys me when people don't know what it is they're "debunking," or when they're proving something else (like people are gullible rather than astrology is false--and gullible people fall for bad professionals and scammers of many "respectable" fields as well, but that doesn't mean that the field is therefore false because some in the field are incompetent or dishonest who can fool people). This can even be everyday people who think that astrology "divides people into 12 types when people are more complicated" but such people get a blank look when they hear about moon sign, planetary aspects, houses, etc (that is, the only thing they know about astrology is what they've gleaned from reading the horoscopes in the paper, but they decide this makes them experts on the topic. )

A close friend of mine doesn't believe in astrology, but she at least checked it out before criticizing it. It's not like it's a big deal to her, though, and she finds closed minded people who wrap themselves in science as annoying as those who wrap themselves in the mystical. She actually has some surreal beliefs of her own, and she does accept a lot more of the paranormal than many do.

That aside...
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004935.html

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Exactly.
I'd accept that scientists think it's bogus if they studied it as much as or more than the rest of us.
Like Kannon said, not horoscope articles but personalized readings, and a lot of them probably with years of study.
People need just as much study as outer space.

I would ask scientists two key questions.

"Are you still studying our solar system?"

"Are you still studying the human mind, brain, and psychology?"

Yes to both of course.
Then you don't know everything.