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Author Topic:   I'm so sick of these "scientific" articles making insulting remarks about astrology
BeholdAstarte
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posted September 24, 2016 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I remember correctly, I heard on an astrology podcast that it's a reported 10% of the population (I don't remember if this only applies to US? Or as a whole) believe in the validity of astrology, either way, the point is that majority don't believe in its validity.

I keep reading, over and over again and it just continues to pop up through the past several years ever since that random dude decided to bring up the "13th" zodiac, and the topic of the precession of the Equinox keeps coming up to try to discredit astrology also.. I just find it so irritating that almost every article I read, in their defense in discrediting astrology, they make statements like "astronomy is for the intelligent and astrology is just hooey" and I'm serious here.. They used the damn word "hooey"!! It drives me crazy that remarks like that are said like they are "factual" when in fact their just some random scientists biased opinion, but because a "scientist" makes this remarks and throws in that it's the math of astronomy that makes it valid, all the sudden astrology is just for the naive and superstitious mind. When in reality and with decent research, you find how complex and ancient the study really is, and how throughout history we have the same PATTERNS with the planetary bodies and where they are positioned in the sky according to where we are..

I'm just ranting, the fact that these articles have to make condescending remarks to try to make astrology out like it's a bunch of "hooey", when it's evident that there's zero amount of actual research to back up their claims is maddening to me!! It always comes down to basic sun sign horoscopes in some newspaper article or magazine or precession of the Equinox to debunk it, but it's such a shallow notion it's just damn insulting how ignorant and widely accepted this is!!!! Aaaahhhhh And so many people believe it.. At this point I'm so used to it but for whatever reason I feel like talking about it today! I don't think it's fair in the light of a study I find myself to be so passionate over. Haha my libra sun/Mars/merc are conjunct transit sun/Jupiter, so maybe that's why I'm preachen my heart out, especially on the justice of astrology!! Oh yeah and Mars is approaching a conjunction to my natal Uranus which also squares my sun/Mars/merc and sun/Jupiter!

I think as astrologers it's good to have a solid stance on the research of this study we all hold so dear, to know about precession of the Equinox, how it differs between sidereal/tropical zodiac and how on a quantum level, the planetary bodies do have an effect on us physiologically and psychologically.

I suppose I accept it.. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's so much more satisfying to spread the truth, but even then who am I to say what the truth really is?

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Hemilla
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posted September 24, 2016 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemilla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try being religious on internet and see what happens xD when i see people saying how something or someone is smart or for smart people i know that person must have low IQ and i dont bother

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Novabronte
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posted September 24, 2016 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Novabronte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If astrology is so hooey why are all powerful,rich and famous consulting astrologers?
Or why Chinese businessmen never sign deals during Mercury RX ? lol

Perhaps scientists would love to hijack astrology and reserve the right to practice for themselves, and then it would probably be for intelligent people at a scientific price of course.

If its any consolation, the very same scientists consider vaccines an intelligent choice and alternative medicine 'bogus'....

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soren
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posted September 24, 2016 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if you cant take a profound truth dont read further:

maybe 10% only believe in astrology (i think its much higher than that, it was likely a dogmatic source, i believe much more like 40% are interested and slightly believe it could be real, based off everything i garnered in my life. everyone i know always says whats your sign, to my relatives and etc)


anyway anyone who believes in intuition should be open to astrological workings. do you know what intuition proves? if your intuition is basically "feeling" (on some metaphysical level) everything in a nearby vicinity, picking up vibrations, energy, powerful energy, then how do you feel these things? its some metaphysical energy we dont know of. scientists are actually little babies sucking their thumbs in that department. if you ever proved it to them. they dont know anything about it. most scientific people dont have enough water in their charts or for some reason from their chart arent intuitive or had weird supernatural experiences in their life. everything is cut and dry to them. some of them. perhaps. i dont know.

anyway if you can feel everything in your environment it actually means that the atoms that make up your brain are actually intertwined and entangled with all the individual energy particles around you and you can feel all of them in a sum of energy. same with all the physical matter. you can feel everything not because its magic but because everything is entangled and the atoms and energy in your brain is reacting and sensing the changes of the environment around it.

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soren
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posted September 24, 2016 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if you cant take a profound truth dont read further:

maybe 10% only believe in astrology (i think its much higher than that, it was likely a dogmatic source, i believe much more like 40% are interested and slightly believe it could be real, based off everything i garnered in my life. everyone i know always says whats your sign, to my relatives and etc)


anyway anyone who believes in intuition should be open to astrological workings. do you know what intuition proves? if your intuition is basically "feeling" (on some metaphysical level) everything in a nearby vicinity, picking up vibrations, energy, powerful energy, then how do you feel these things? its some metaphysical energy we dont know of. scientists are actually little babies sucking their thumbs in that department. if you ever proved it to them. they dont know anything about it. most scientific people dont have enough water in their charts or for some reason from their chart arent intuitive or had weird supernatural experiences in their life. everything is cut and dry to them. some of them. perhaps. i dont know.

anyway if you can feel everything in your environment it actually means that the atoms that make up your brain are actually intertwined and entangled with all the individual energy particles around you and you can feel all of them in a sum of energy. same with all the physical matter. you can feel everything not because its magic but because everything is entangled and the atoms and energy in your brain is reacting and sensing the changes of the environment around it.

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Violets
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posted September 24, 2016 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I get annoyed by the chick who writes the IFLS (I f**king Love Science) articles. She's constantly making a point of saying that "astrology is bulls**t"). It's irritating. In my opinion, astrology is a science that just hasn't been recognized as such yet.

(And yes, I refer to women as "chicks" sometimes, for the people who find that off-putting for whatever reason.)

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soren
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posted September 24, 2016 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

this is the idea of resonance

of course there are much much more forces invisibile that are unheard of as of yet

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Electro DGX
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posted September 24, 2016 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Electro DGX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The real question is: would a true scientist react like this?

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Check out my blog ya'll: www.electrodgxtalks.wordpress.com

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soren
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posted September 24, 2016 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Electro DGX:
The real question is: would a true scientist react like this?


that's correct , the best scientist is open minded

a scientist doesnt beileve anything until there is a sum of repeitive tested proofs.

but its up to a scienstists personal beliefs to dismiss something as untrue, even without much proof

but it is not professional to voice their opinions as a scientific fact. if they do that, in the article OP read, they are just operating as a person expressing a belief.

a good scientists wouldnt dismiss something. a good scientists only is open to what is true, and not try to prove that things arent true.

always open

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DualGemV2
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posted September 24, 2016 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DualGemV2     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by soren:
that's correct , the best scientist is open minded


The problem is the majority of scientists have become very institutionalized.

..Then 20yrs down the road they lose the ablity to think outside the box.


For example.

I had two different Chemistry profs
one was a Sagittarian the other was a Pisces.

The Sagittarian believed in the possibilities of things, he even hinted he believed in Chem trails but didn't directly say it. He knows how the "Institution" works and not what to say.

The Pisces was stuck up with this is how we always do things. Very Arrogant and vain, but passionate to the traditional way he was taught to do things.

====================================
Gemini Sun,
Capricorn Rising
Aries Moon
Gemini Mercury
Venus Taurus
Mars Cancer

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Faith
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posted September 24, 2016 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most of them don't even know what it is.

Astrofaces promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdmRKekUjM

They should look into that ~ seeing is believing.

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soren
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posted September 24, 2016 07:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for soren     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Most of them don't even know what it is.

Astrofaces promo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdmRKekUjM

They should look into that ~ seeing is believing.


That's true most of them think the past people were dumb and thought it was just star pictures

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hypatia238
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posted September 24, 2016 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You go girl!

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kewf1988
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posted September 25, 2016 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kewf1988     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True!

Nearly any person would probably believe it to be true (unless they're a cusper, but that is often because there's stuff like an even bigger influence in the next sign) if they were open minded and studied it without certain belief systems holding them back (like religions), and keeping track of the personality traits of people born every 30 days (Aries tend to be competitive and/or haved tempers, Taurus loves material items and the "good life", Geminis are very intellectual and clever, Cancers are very patriotic and family-oriented, Leos ooze self confidence and can come off as bossy, Virgos are very health conscious and tend to be workaholics, Libras love beauty and tend to be very social, Scorpios love dark clothing and tattoos and can see through people, Sagittarius is VERY jovial and optimistic, Capricorns are also workaholics and have a strong will to achieve their goals, Aquarius is very eccentric, friendship oriented and fights for causes, and Pisces tend to be very quiet and feeling people) and even every 10-20 years (for example the young adults full of tattoos are mainly born between 1983-1995, when Pluto was in Scorpio, and the Neptune in Capricorn from 1984-1998 is the reason people see Millennials as the "entitlement generation"). It's pretty fascinating when I found that out for myself... I also noticed the facial appearances of the Sun, Moon, and rising signs, as well as the Pluto and Neptune signs (all because of librarising.com's celebrity lists and how it explained that the feminine outer planet generations have a more feminine appearance than the masculine outer planet generations)

quote:
Originally posted by Novabronte:
If astrology is so hooey why are all powerful,rich and famous consulting astrologers?
Or why Chinese businessmen never sign deals during Mercury RX ? lol

Perhaps scientists would love to hijack astrology and reserve the right to practice for themselves, and then it would probably be for intelligent people at a scientific price of course.

If its any consolation, the very same scientists consider vaccines an intelligent choice and alternative medicine 'bogus'....


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erickaf
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posted September 25, 2016 04:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for erickaf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lol my brothers are engineers and are seriously 'disturbed' I follow and read up on astrology lol!
Both are Cancer Suns with Scorpio asc lol! And one has Sag moon other Taurus.
They would mention scientific articles for me to 'study'!!

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BeholdAstarte
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posted September 25, 2016 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BeholdAstarte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I luh all you guys *cyber hugz* my Astro bros and sisters!!!

The reason why I stopped pursuing my psychology degree.. Was because I couldnt handle the environment/dogma of the scientific arena, behavioralism aims to be as scientific as possible, as does most of psychology. It was maddening to me to read these articles in class, in my very own textbook I paid well over a hundred dollars for!!! That psychic phenomena, astrology, palm reading was just a bunch of "superstitious nonsense" that didn't have any real validity other than being a figment of your imagination, like a placebo effect. I literally had a teacher arguing with me when we were on the topic of dreams.. That I didn't actually "lucid dream" or "astral project" but it was just made up in my mind, when I asked if she had ever lucid dreamt, she said "no, it's not possible". Ptsh! She too was a Pisces.. It's so funny to me how many Pisces/Neptune influence folk I've met who are such severe skeptics ? Maybe it's because Pisces is so susceptible to absorb its surroundings, maybe they were lied to and overcompensate by being overly tangible in their beliefs? Also have met so many Scorpio/Pluto placed folk who were skeptics too.

That's why parapsychology and depth psychology were so fascinating to me, to study metaphysical phenomena and how our brains/mind correlate to that, as well as the unconscious undercurrents that connect us on a psychic level.. It's just a bummer that so much research has to be done to get to the good stuff I really wanted to study.. And I didn't quit get there. But my own studying has been just as satisfying and less expensive? So I'll just stick with what I'm natural at, art lol. Where I can be as crazy and out there as I want.


It's funny, I've had so many skeptics try to convince me I was ridiculous for believing in astrology, even my parents were putting me down for believing in it, giving me a look like "are you really that naive?". One time, I had to cut a guy off who was trying to convince me why he didn't believe in astrology.. He didn't make any sense and was trying to explain himself by precession of the Equinox.. Of course! Haha I couldn't help myself and I just said "you have no idea what your talking about, the difference between you and I is I've actually studied and done my research and I know what I'm talking about, do the same and let's talk again ok?" And that was the end of that lol.. Another time I sat for about 30 minutes listening to a guy talk about why he didn't believe in astrology, not knowing that I believed in it or studied it, I was respectful of his opinions, just saying "I can see how you can see it that way" (oh so true to my diplomatic libra nature!! Mwuahaha) and when he was finally done, everything he miss explained, I clarified, the look on his face was priceless! I think there's no denying the validity in astrology when you can actually study it and validate it yourself!!

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Kannon McAfee
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posted September 25, 2016 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Intellectuals and scientists even like Carl Sagan have indulged themselves in pummeling astrological straw dogs like newspaper "horoscope" columns in the pretension to addressing the validity of astrology historically and as a whole. This intellectual laziness is a way of getting a cheap affirmation of their own rationalism, which is largely a feature of modern urbanism aimed at the act of grasping knowledge that can be applied to the creation of technological gadgets or prestige among peers. I on longer let it bother me. I refute such arguments with my friends, but otherwise leave such (hyper-)rationalists to their own devices.

Truth is most folks really are not clear at all on what astrology actually is other than so-called horoscope columns in periodicals, which are now all over the internet as well. We have long separated ourselves from nature and live mostly as city dwellers entirely differently from how ancient astrologers lived in directly nightly observation of the sky. Attempts to popularize astrology (through derivative authorship rather than direct observation) and keep a foothold for practitioners to earn a living at it have also weakened the integrity of what used to be a science. If anything it is easier than ever to mock it.

Let us be really clear -- at least among each other ... Astrology created astronomy.

Modern day rationalists will try to refute this, but history is quite clear if you only look at the record. The ancient astronomers all over the globe who observed the sky, watched the planets and created ephemerides predicting their movements did so with impressive precision long before computers, telescopes, or probes. They did so with the understanding (probably first by observing cycles of the Moon) that there is correlation between sky and earth. The changing sky -- which is largely the rotation of our own planet in horoscopic astrology -- is tied to events on earth, because it is predominantly movement of the earth itself. Does anyone really dispute that the movement of the Earth affects life on Earth? It is this that creates night and day.

The Moon is indisputably tied to our tides. That is basic astrology alone since its gravitational push-pull acts upon the Earth's 70% fluid body as well as all of our mostly fluid bodies in more subtle fashion.

These are indisputable and irrefutable. So the idea of astrology is sound. The only question is how far we take it and whether we engage in the superstition that those little dots in the sky have power over us. Synchronicity is a difficult concept to accept, because it is neither 'cause' or 'does not cause.' It is unity.

The difficulty for the rationalists that irritate us with their straw dog arguments is because they lack this very unity within themselves. Since the enlightenment era reason has come to mean rationalist intellectualism divorced from intuition, which was identified with a gooey feminine mess of irrational 'feelings.' The intuition needed to perceive the meaning or relevance of the movements of the sky and stars is foreign to them. So they scapegoat it as useless mysticism.

Maybe we should feel sorry for them.

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hannaramaa
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posted September 25, 2016 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, I see a lot of videos bring up The Barnum Effect smugly as if they've backed us into a corner with it but... that study only applied to the Sun signs.

I had a coworker who was staunchly into science and said something along the lines of "Do you really believe we're ruled by the Cosmos and you have no control over anything" to which I said "Well by that logic, are scientists control freaks?" Suddenly he didn't have a lot to say except "Oh, I never looked at it like that," aaaaand jump topics.

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Selenite
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posted September 25, 2016 04:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selenite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really disagree with what you're saying. Yeah someone with a different opinion rubbing it in your face is always annoying, but consider how annoying it is for someone who believes in science, to have someone claiming truth in something that has absolutely no real evidence (ie, astrology or religion). The point is, people who believe in astrology obviously don't need evidence to believe in it, and 'scientific' people DO need evidence to believe that anything is true. So it shouldn't be a surprise that they crap all over anything that requires only faith to be true. Pseudoscience drives scientific people insane, because what THEY are passionate about, is absolute truth. So respect is a two way street in that case - leave astrology out of science and the scientists won't crap all over it. Like, they spend their whole lives trying to prove things with evidence, so it must be offensive to them to have someone using false claims to back things up as science. It's an occult study; unmeasurable and unscientific. (*But still valuable )

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hannaramaa
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posted September 25, 2016 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Selenite:
I really disagree with what you're saying. Yeah someone with a different opinion rubbing it in your face is always annoying, but consider how annoying it is for someone who believes in science, to have someone claiming truth in something that has absolutely no real evidence (ie, astrology or religion). The point is, people who believe in astrology obviously don't need evidence to believe in it, and 'scientific' people DO need evidence to believe that anything is true. So it shouldn't be a surprise that they crap all over anything that requires only faith to be true. Pseudoscience drives scientific people insane, because what THEY are passionate about, is absolute truth. So respect is a two way street in that case - leave astrology out of science and the scientists won't crap all over it. Like, they spend their whole lives trying to prove things with evidence, so it must be offensive to them to have someone using false claims to back things up as science. It's an occult study; unmeasurable and unscientific. (*But still valuable )

Reasonable and well said, but I think BA was just talking about videos she's seen...(correct me if I'm wrong), and how they don't explore astrology thoroughly before negating it, not intentionally trying to convert people.

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incognito
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posted September 25, 2016 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for incognito     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's called brainwashing the population to have knee-jerk reactions.

From what I remember of my psychology research, a few famous psychologists e.g. Jung would also print up natal charts of their patients along with a psychoanalysis. He seemed to have a real belief in astrology. But that is completely downplayed fact.

I've studied cognition and subliminal perception and its clear that people are very very easy to manipulate.

I've always felt that the evil energies who manipulate media and influence our education systems and global policies just want to keep knowledge for themselves. There is a lot of esoteric information about the universe that is hidden from us. SO of course they are going to say astrology is bullish*t- to make sure most people stay away from it - lest they be labelled "crazy"
That's why they have those superficial and very general astro column in trash newspapers - to make it seem like junk.

The easiest way to keep someone away from something apart from by force, is to make them change their mind about it so they don't seek it out on their own.

Along the same lines, we can see that a contempt for Christianity has been instilled into our society so that we no longer seek out our creator; the destruction of the family unit is encouraged- "life's short have an affair!" or "marriage is lame/overrated".
There is also commodification of EVERYTHING we can experience with our 5 senses and a glorification of the pursuit of pleasure above anything else.

Slow but persistent brainwashing from birth onwards

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Mergoatsun
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posted September 25, 2016 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mergoatsun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Selenite:
I really disagree with what you're saying. Yeah someone with a different opinion rubbing it in your face is always annoying, but consider how annoying it is for someone who believes in science, to have someone claiming truth in something that has absolutely no real evidence (ie, astrology or religion). The point is, people who believe in astrology obviously don't need evidence to believe in it, and 'scientific' people DO need evidence to believe that anything is true. So it shouldn't be a surprise that they crap all over anything that requires only faith to be true. Pseudoscience drives scientific people insane, because what THEY are passionate about, is absolute truth. So respect is a two way street in that case - leave astrology out of science and the scientists won't crap all over it. Like, they spend their whole lives trying to prove things with evidence, so it must be offensive to them to have someone using false claims to back things up as science. It's an occult study; unmeasurable and unscientific. (*But still valuable )

As a future scientist and psychologist myself I agree with you. My MD PHD scientist boyfriend does not believe in astrology because there is no proof, he knows how it works because I taught him, but he there still doesn't believe because there is no scientific proof. I sometimes struggle to believe it as well.

Also I want to ask all the anti-vaxers out there, where is your scientific proof? Also, is it really that horrible to have a child with autism? If I had a choice of my child dying from a preventable disease or my child having autism, autism wins every time. But the solid proof is still that vaccines do not cause autism, so it doesn't matter anyways.

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hannaramaa
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posted September 25, 2016 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:

Also, is it really that horrible to have a child with autism?

^^ Obviously have never had a child with autism, or had your child die from a preventable disease. I'm not a staunch anti-vaxxer, but how do you - as someone who I'm sure has a more thorough understanding - explain the difference in children's behavior before and after getting vax'd? In the cases where they got autism, I mean.

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Mergoatsun
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posted September 25, 2016 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mergoatsun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hannaramaa:
^^ Obviously have never had a child with autism, or had your child die from a preventable disease. I'm not a staunch anti-vaxxer, but how do you - as someone who I'm sure has a more thorough understanding - explain the difference in children's behavior before and after getting vax'd? In the cases where they got autism, I mean.

In what cases are you referring to? If you want scientific answers you need to provide actual cases. I have a friend with Autism and he hates when anti-vaxers use autism as the worst possible thing when their children could actually die from something preventable. Since you have provided no cases I'll offer a psychological point of view, autism often isn't something that develops at the same time, sometimes it happens very young (toddler) or later into adolescence. Sometimes (depending on where the child is on the spectrum) symptoms are not really that noticeable until they get older or until the parent starts questioning.

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Faith
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posted September 25, 2016 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With all due respect, you are changing the subject way off course.

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