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Author
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Topic: Excessive Guilt
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manderin
Knowflake Posts: 848
From: New York, NY USA
Registered: Nov 2013
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posted March 04, 2017 09:08 PM
  
You've described me. I not only beat myself up over mistakes I make, but I also have a tendency to feel guilty about things that are OBVIOUSLY not my fault. And yet knowing that they are not my fault does not in the least help me feel less at fault. When I pass by police officers I sometimes panic a little on the inside because I automatically think I'm going to get in trouble for doing something wrong- despite not being able to figure out what I did that was wrong. I also feel guilty at times for no reason. Just an overwhelming feeling that I need to apologize to the universe for existing sometimes comes over me out of the blue.I've read often that Saturn in the 12th house can create a feeling of guilt in the native that comes from unknown sources. Being raised in critical family can cause this. Girls are more prone to it because they are taught that if they dress a certain way and they are grabbed it's somehow their fault or they were "asking for it". And if there's an argument at the dining room table if a girl doesn't back down to a man in that argument, she's often the one berated for not "letting it go" while he's let off the hook. etc. These examples happen to be gender based, but there are lots of family environments that can cause this which have nothing to do with one's sex. People with certain planetary placements might be more likely to be born into such families.
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DualGemV2
Knowflake Posts: 830
From: Toronto, Ontario
Registered: Aug 2016
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posted March 04, 2017 09:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
When you make a mistake you beat yourself up forever and think "there is something terribly wrong with me, I am bad, I am etc.. " instead of "I made a mistake, I shouldn't have done that, it was stupid."
Capircorn Ascendant. Its really the what if's.... For example. Two winters ago I skied into a telephone pole
I was lucky: 1)The pole didn't get knocked down.
2)I didn't get charged.
3)My car wasn't totaled.
4)Most of all my insurance didn't go through the roof. But..every time I drive my car I'm reminded with the what ifs.... Maybe if I had just speed through the intersection instead of slamming to stop for a yellow I wouldn't have skidded. But then I whould argue it was already red
once I would have reached the crosswalk/ stop line so it wouldn't have made a difference. But then I would argue with myself saying I should have just ran it because
I was the only vehicle in the intersection at the time. All the other vehicles were stopped waiting for the light to turn green on there side. Even if I was 3/4 through the intersection and the light turned green on there side all the other vehicles would have let me passed through since I was already in the intersection and they were still stopped. Worst case they would shoot profanity at me, but they would let me pass since they wouldn't want a collision. Its those kinda things that haunt me, the what iff's and if you made the right decision. Its hard because you can debate it as much as you want and not know the outcome if you had done something differently. ====================================
Gemini Sun,
Capricorn Rising
Aries Moon
Gemini Mercury
Venus Taurus
Mars Cancer IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 05, 2017 01:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by manderin:
I also feel guilty at times for no reason. Just an overwhelming feeling that I need to apologize to the universe for existing sometimes comes over me out of the blue.I've read often that Saturn in the 12th house can create a feeling of guilt in the native that comes from unknown sources.
 that makes me so sad to hear that love but thanks for sharing your experience. This may be guilt from a past life. "This Bach Flower Remedy would have brought great relief to a boy I once knew. His every conversation was peppered with the words "I'm sorry." Most of the time, there was nothing to be sorry for, but he apologized anyway. Of course, through the act of constant apology, he irritated those around him - for which he apologized! A person in the negative Pine state may feel guilty over seemingly trivial recent events - he forgot to turn off the oven and burned extra electricity - or by both large and small events from long ago. He may even accept guilt for events that happened long before his birth - even going back to Adam and Eve. He'll also accept the guilt for other's actions."
http://www.bachflower.org/pine.htm IP: Logged |
Rosalind
Knowflake Posts: 4209
From:
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted March 05, 2017 03:23 AM
1. Do you have Sag placements?? Yes, Saturn in Sagittarius in the 1st house squaring the ASC. 2. Do you have AC in Capricorn or Sagittarius? No. I have Saturn in 1st house in Sagittarius. 3. Do you have Jupiter in hard aspect to Saturn? Yes. Jupiter in Pisces squaring Saturn in Sagittarius. 4. Venus in Sag conjunct Saturn? No. Not sure how old are you but I stopped having feelings of excessive guilt the moment my Saturn Return cycle started. Does that make me a monster? No. I just care more about myself than others. IP: Logged |
hearttreasure
Knowflake Posts: 1114
From:
Registered: Jan 2015
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posted March 05, 2017 04:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
Yes, South Node in Virgos need to learn to just not listen to the haters, and forgive themselves.SN in Virgo is also obsessed with 'knowing' and analyzing.
I am so like this and I thought it came from my MC in Virgo, something in me constantly worry/blaming myself about what if I am the one who made a wrong decision instead seeing the other person also has the responsibility. But lately I'm thinking that I should not punish myself although I'm still punishing myself by criticizing and putting down myself. I'm still learning though. IP: Logged |
soren
unregistered
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posted March 05, 2017 06:28 AM
nothing you've done can be that bad. i'm dealing with the deaths of 80 people. heres from an outsider's perspective: you think youre so bad, but your like a flower (not compliment, just harmless) IP: Logged |
Lerena
Knowflake Posts: 1388
From:
Registered: May 2015
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posted March 05, 2017 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Lerena thanks for participating. My other guess would be that your saturn aspects your sun and possibly your moon (9H ruler). Does it aspect either of your luminaries??
Yes. I have Sun square Saturn in my chart.IP: Logged |
nordicsoul
Knowflake Posts: 1981
From:
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 05, 2017 11:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Is the Ruler of your 2H aspecting saturn and jupiter?
I am changing but I would say I have been like that for most of my life and I have none of the aspects you described except the one quoted. my mercury (ruler of 2nd) sextile saturn exact. my moon (depositor of my venus-sun-mar) sextile saturn too. IP: Logged |
nordicsoul
Knowflake Posts: 1981
From:
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 05, 2017 12:02 PM
I have a feeling (not based on any data) that maybe saturn in 12 can give a sense of guilt. maybe too chiron-venus or chiron-2nd house ruler IP: Logged |
nordicsoul
Knowflake Posts: 1981
From:
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 05, 2017 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I feel like it's more Saturnine energy that does this rather than Sagittarius energy. Sagittarian energy is more likely to not care as much about the way their actions are received than Saturn is.
I would agree with that from personal observation IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 05, 2017 12:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rosalind:
1. Do you have Sag placements?? Yes, Saturn in Sagittarius in the 1st house squaring the ASC. 2. Do you have AC in Capricorn or Sagittarius? No. I have Saturn in 1st house in Sagittarius. 3. Do you have Jupiter in hard aspect to Saturn? Yes. Jupiter in Pisces squaring Saturn in Sagittarius. 4. Venus in Sag conjunct Saturn? No. Not sure how old are you but I stopped having feelings of excessive guilt the moment my Saturn Return cycle started. Does that make me a monster? No. I just care more about myself than others.
I never said in the original post I was talking about myself, I know several people most of which are my clients that struggle with this or were struggling with this. I would think after anyone's first saturn return that they have made significant progress working through their issues yes. Saturn is no joke and it transiting your entire chart will make you a little bit wiser  . I am dealing with a bunch of saturn transits right now and it suckssss. I know ultimately I will be rewarded but probably for a year or two it will be painful. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 05, 2017 12:15 PM
Darn it electro's comment about saturn got eaten!, I think when multiple people respond to a thread sometimes this glitch occurs. I agree with you electro that is more a Saturn thing and that sag is more chill by nature letting things slide off of them more easily. The reason why I thought Jupiter or the 9H ruler is involved is bc it rules our highermind, religion, ethics and how we see the world so it shapes our perception of right and wrong. Sag energy on its own its probably not enough to lead to the feelings described in the original post you are right but I feel it may often be a component or ingredient in combo with some saturn placements or aspects. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 05, 2017 12:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I have a feeling (not based on any data) that maybe saturn in 12 can give a sense of guilt. maybe too chiron-venus or chiron-2nd house ruler
I have a friend with saturn in the 12H, venus in sag conjunct saturn, capricorn rising, SN in Virgo, 2H ruler conjunct saturn, 9H ruler in the 2H who is prone to a lot of guilt and at some points in his life self loathing. Also moon conjunct mars in aries which makes him see himself as selfish. 2H is our values, what we value, venus what we loveeee... So I see a chart of someone with very high ideals who hates himself and experiences excessive guilt bc he perceives himself as too selfish but I think that is his high ideals what causes all the self loathing. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 73623
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted March 05, 2017 01:19 PM
Manderin  ------------------
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http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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colorful butterfly
Knowflake Posts: 2172
From: USA
Registered: May 2015
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posted March 09, 2017 01:10 AM
From what I read Saturn in the 12th can give a person a feeling of being someone who bears the weight of the world, being responsible for the sufferings of others. I also read it means to be here to do service for others. For me I just want to wave a magic wand and take away the pain\misfortunes of others , to see them happy, to put things back in pandoras box so to speak while leaving the world the hope. Unfortunately, I think Utopia is a state of fantasy or awareness if you can block out the sufferings of others. I think the biggest thing is to find something where you can help others who are unable to help themselves, working for a food shelter , hospital, etc. I read this can help to offset this but you still will feel the compasion. IP: Logged |
colorful butterfly
Knowflake Posts: 2172
From: USA
Registered: May 2015
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posted March 09, 2017 01:22 AM
Btw, I learned to treat yourself the way you would if you were your own child or a child. I think sometimes as adults we do forget that we are human, we expect ourselves to be perfect. Psychology wise this is the super ego, it's like the old man sitting in the back of a wagon telling the ego( driver ) what he is doing wrong, how he should be doing etc. ( critical) The ID would be the horses of the wagon ( impulsive lacking direction) This is when you go out and have a few drinks with your friends to unwind , or do you for lack of better words. They all have primary functions, the ID is good in moderation because it allows you to have fun, destress , unwind, enjoy life but without the ego driving the wagon and the super ego correcting everything there would be no telling where you'd go in life. Your impulses would take over and you could become an alcoholic, spendthrift etc. If the super ego were in charge all the time, you'd stay on edge all the time. Think about if you had your boss or parent breathing down your neck all the time, nagging you every second of everyday. IP: Logged |
sis
Knowflake Posts: 581
From:
Registered: Mar 2011
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posted March 09, 2017 05:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Well can you relate, do you find you punish yourself a lot and have a hard time practicing self compassion and forgiving yourself when you do something that you think is wrong?
Yes of course I can relate... I always have a hard time practising self compassion. I feel quilty about the things that all of my loved ones say I should not feel guilty about. IP: Logged |
MoonMystic
Knowflake Posts: 2203
From:
Registered: Nov 2016
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posted March 09, 2017 02:25 PM
Hypatia, I do actually have an issue of always feeling the guilt for others (if I know or observe them to be dishonest) or the mundane interactions I have. I might have made a simple comment that another person didn'thave trouble with, yet I will carry blame as if I did something awful. Even doing things corrupt, it just isn't me. Because my conscience is always a nag.Caring for or about others, I often rethink myself in situations. 'Did I do enough?'I believe I found my reasons why.
Do you have Sag placements??
Yes -- My ASC is Sag
2. Do you have AC in Capricorn or Sagittarius?
Ditto
Also, in my case and others can look at theirs, the asteroid Conscience is (0) on my Asc! I definitely feel it too. I wonder if others who have a guilty complex find it in pivotal places.
(Edited 3+ times)
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hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 09, 2017 02:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MoonMystic:
Hypatia, I do actually have an issue of always feeling the guilt for others (if I know or observe them to be dishonest) or the mundane interactions I have. I might have made a simple comment that another person didn'thave trouble with, yet I will carry blame as if I did something awful. Even doing things corrupt, it just isn't me. Because my conscience is always a nag.Caring for or about others, I often rethink myself in situations. 'Did I do enough?'I believe I found my reasons why.
Do you have Sag placements??
Yes -- My ASC is Sag
2. Do you have AC in Capricorn or Sagittarius?
Ditto
Also, in my case and others can look at theirs, the asteroid Conscience is (0) on my Asc! I definitely feel it too. I wonder if others who have a guilty complex find it in pivotal places.
(Edited 3+ times)
Great asteroid to bring up! Thanks . In your case is definitely very significant that is on your AC specially in the sign of Sag. Something to look into... Do you have Saturn aspecting your luminaries or chart ruler by any chance?
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CapriciousCapricorn
Knowflake Posts: 1566
From:
Registered: Sep 2015
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posted March 09, 2017 03:25 PM
Hi hypatia238,I'm not sure myself what exactly is responsible for what you describe in our natal chart (need to think long and hard about this one). I think there are two types of people though: those who blame themselves for things that happen in their lives and those who blame everything and everyone BUT themselves. It can be a matter of self-esteem but it's not a rule. That's why we can't just look for markers of low-esteem or markers of something else..not so easy. Which type we lean closer to and how we turn out has to do with our worldview and a lot is responsible for that in the chart. Anyways, I never beat myself up, the opposite of what you describe and I have this in my chart (sorry, don't know if you need that) In Sagittarius I only have a Mercury Uranus conjunction in 3H, they are not in aspect to Jupiter or Saturn
My Jupiter is in Capricorn
Jupiter sextile Saturn Also, I have Saturn square Moon, Mars and Venus IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 13945
From: Mercury novile and parallel Pluto, Pluto septile Southnode
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted March 09, 2017 04:01 PM
There are always exceptions to the rule capriciouscapricorn but Saturn rules the disciplinarian critical parent that will punish you if you do something wrong and Jupiter rules religion, our worldviews, higher mind and our perception of what is ethical, right and wrong etc...So Saturn aspecting Harshly Jupiter or your 9H ruler and either of these aspecting personal planets I feel can lead to someone who is prone to excessive guilt but there are always exceptions ofcourse. IP: Logged |
MoonMystic
Knowflake Posts: 2203
From:
Registered: Nov 2016
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posted March 09, 2017 05:18 PM
Hypatia wrote: Great asteroid to bring up! Thanks . In your case is definitely very significant that is on your AC specially in the sign of Sag.Something to look into... Do you have Saturn aspecting your luminaries or chart ruler by any chance?
-------------------------------------------- Actually yes. An opposition between Jupiter &Saturn. Which as a youth I struggled more with it. That Conscience asteroid (as well as a strong Christcomet kite) play a powerful role in my chart. I feel these energies.
Oh, I also think my heavy placements in Pisces and Sagittarius play a role too. Karma is in Pisces. There are a lot of indicators. Imo anyway, IP: Logged |
CapriciousCapricorn
Knowflake Posts: 1566
From:
Registered: Sep 2015
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posted March 09, 2017 05:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
There are always exceptions to the rule capriciouscapricorn but Saturn rules the disciplinarian critical parent that will punish you if you do something wrong and Jupiter rules religion, our worldviews, higher mind and our perception of what is ethical, right and wrong etc...So Saturn aspecting Harshly Jupiter or your 9H ruler and either of these aspecting personal planets I feel can lead to someone who is prone to excessive guilt but there are always exceptions ofcourse.
What you wrote is really good. If the problem is really low-self esteem then yes, you seem to be on the right path. I would also look to Asc as closely. Saturn or Jupiter square it, for example. IP: Logged |
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