posted March 14, 2018 04:41 PM            

Secondly, I can tell with a brief survey of the luminaries this chart is not quite accurate enough on the Asc, but possibly in the right sign. The planetary lokas from the nirayana zodiac show Mars and Jupiter (and/or Neptune) as the prominent energies that should show by angular aspect to Asc and/or MC. Due to the aggressive and explosive vengeful measures he took in his life, we know Mars must show in such a fashion (even if he had others do most of his dirty work). With the 4° Pisces Asc it is not within orb of such an aspect with Asc or MC.

The general time of day may be pretty close, but you have to bump the Asc forward into mid-Pisces before you get the right kind of alignment. Starting around 11° Pisces rising you get the Asc to 7° south declination, contra-parallel Mars and Saturn, both exactly parallel at 6N12. You also get Pluto [23N03] contra-parallel MC 22.5° north.

Because he was an underworld character, it is not the Sun, but Pluto that best characterizes him, his relationship to government and the public. Sun could still be more widely in aspect to MC, but it is Pluto that counts most.

Those aspect dynamics with Mars/Asc and Pluto/IC get tightest with Asc around 19° Pisces, but the correct Asc could be earlier, and with Asc 14-18° Pisces [4-6° south], Neptune [5S08] is parallel it. Sun [21S50] is parallel Jupiter [20S40].

However, a similar alignment, but reversing it to Mars/MC and Asc/Pluto can be found by turning the chart's Asc back to mid-Capricorn.

Saturn so closely conjunct and parallel Mars shows a soul choice attempting to rectify previous over-reliance on Martial energies. Moon/Aries square both Venus/Cap and Jupiter/Aqua shows someone who feels deserving of the best, possibly regardless of their own behavior or contribution, a potential for self-indulgence even if affectionate, social, and generous.

Mercury in Sag square Mars-Saturn in Virgo shows someone too apt to lurch with opinions and negative reactions, needing to learn better how to listen and consider the appropriate details. Big aspirations and ideas, but actually challenged in more deliberative intellectual consideration. Mercury at 23° south is contra-parallel Pluto [23N03], further indicating a drastic tendency in thinking and communications that can be suspicious and oriented towards dominance. Venus is right there also contra-parallel Pluto, indicating a potential for enaction of all-or-nothing fatalistic values.

Obviously this is a kind of hindsight analysis considering we know so much about his life (which I am not really interested in), but I do find the chart interesting against such a dramatic biography, especially in the context of soul development, which increasingly colors my work.

He died in a shootout the day after his birthday in 1993 when Pluto was 5S56, in transit contra-parallel natal Mars-Saturn [6N12]. Mars was at 17° Sag and he died of a gunshot to the head, which further suggests natal Asc in mid-Pisces, since Mars would have been squaring it by transit. Mars was also at 23° south declination, parallel the MC of any chart set in mid-Pisces (possibly even conjunct the MC).

The outer planet transits for the month of his marriage, March 1976, also suggest Asc in mid-Pisces with Neptune at 14° Sag (squaring it) and Pluto 10-11° Libra (possible quincunx to Asc and semi-sextile to DC).

posted March 15, 2018 12:04 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
I moved the ASC to about Pisces 18. Would place his Mars on DSC. I will continue to work with his chart. He also resonates with Chiron, surprisingly.

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He has chiron conjunct sun and mercury yes...

I can see how chiron on your sun along with my observations of his uranus would lead to a case of the fuc* its. A lot of restlessness in that journey of his uranus...Uranus in cancer (unaspected, singleton=only water planet,emotional) leads to moon in aries(war,aggression,impulsive), leads to mars conjunct saturn in virgo (afflicted mars, cold mental calculation in the planet of war, ruthless).

posted March 15, 2018 12:09 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
He has chiron conjunct sun and mercury yes...

I can see how chiron on your sun along with my observations of his uranus would lead to a case of the fuc* its. A lot of restlessness in that journey of his uranus...Uranus in cancer (unaspected, singleton=only water planet,emotional) leads to moon in aries(war,aggression,impulsive), leads to mars conjunct saturn in virgo (afflicted mars, cold mental calculation in the planet of war, ruthless).

And then chiron and the pain from chiron almost fueling it all leading to a lot of self-righteous anger.

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Escobar on the inside and Chiron on the outside. Obvious.

posted March 15, 2018 12:15 AM            

That is mind blowing how the nodes are aligning like that and the nodes are ruled by mars and venus, a love versus war theme, in his case war won and that is how he dealt with his pain instead of healing through love.

posted March 15, 2018 12:18 AM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

He died in a shootout the day after his birthday in 1993 when Pluto was 5S56, in transit contra-parallel natal Mars-Saturn [6N12]. Mars was at 17° Sag and he died of a gunshot to the head, which further suggests natal Asc in mid-Pisces, since Mars would have been squaring it by transit. Mars was also at 23° south declination, parallel the MC of any chart set in mid-Pisces (possibly even conjunct the MC).

The outer planet transits for the month of his marriage, March 1976, also suggest Asc in mid-Pisces with Neptune at 14° Sag (squaring it) and Pluto 10-11° Libra (possible quincunx to Asc and semi-sextile to DC).

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posted March 15, 2018 12:19 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Oh you are talking about Chiron's discovery chart.

That is mind blowing how the nodes are aligning like that and the nodes are ruled by mars and venus, a love versus war theme, in his case war won and that is how he dealt with his pain instead of healing through love.

Fascinating actually, thanks for sharing this!

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posted March 15, 2018 12:21 AM            

Uranus 23N39
Pluto 23N03 = parallel with Uranus, every bit the emphasis of a conjunction.

So he was someone given to extremes, at least in potential. This was a feature of his (sub)generation. So not only should Pluto be parallel the IC of any chart worth considering set in Pisces, but Uranus is there as well.

Mercury 23S58 = contra-parallel Uranus, every bit the dynamic of an opposition.
Venus 23S48 = same.

posted March 15, 2018 12:39 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
[B]Escobar inside and Lilith (1181) outside. This is one place where Escobar's Uranus comes in.

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I liked the chiron synastry with escobar and this one..

His moon conjunct lilith conjuncts lilith's chiron in aries, his uranus conjunct lilith's northnode, and his juno conjuncts lilith's lilith!

Wow my SUN in Virgo at 28d conjuncts his JUNO too, I have that with my partner who has Juno in virgo at 29d LOL

posted March 15, 2018 12:48 AM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Declinations -- parallels and contra-parallels are major aspects which override the worn out Ptolemaic notion of unaspected. Here are the declinations related to Uranus:

Uranus 23N39
Pluto 23N03 = parallel with Uranus, every bit the emphasis of a conjunction.

So he was someone given to extremes, at least in potential. This was a feature of his (sub)generation. So not only should Pluto be parallel the IC of any chart worth considering set in Pisces, but Uranus is there as well.

Mercury 23S58 = contra-parallel Uranus, every bit the dynamic of an opposition.
Venus 23S48 = same.

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Still his uranus is the only planet that is in water and that gives uranus a lot of power, makes it like a tsunami in a sense. Specially since Moon in Aries rules his uranus so is like a tsunami with bullets LOL hahahaha JK...

posted March 15, 2018 12:49 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:

I liked the chiron synastry with escobar and this one..

His moon conjunct lilith conjuncts lilith's chiron in aries, his uranus conjunct lilith's northnode, and his juno conjuncts lilith's lilith!

Wow my SUN in Virgo at 28d conjuncts his JUNO too, I have that with my partner who has Juno in virgo at 29d LOL

My partner is very attracted to lilith energy. I wonder if his wife had anything in late degree Virgo hitting his Juno.

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Escobar inside Juno outside. Check Juno's Uranus.

posted March 15, 2018 12:54 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Escobar prolly had a bunch of sex. LOLOLOL

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posted March 15, 2018 12:56 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Why do you say that?

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posted March 15, 2018 11:36 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Juno has Pallas with a Pluto kicker. That is why Juno is a sex freak. I am exaggerating a tad, but I had a wife with a Juno on my Juno which is at Juno's Juno. I can vouch for it. LOL

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I don't know, other things in your synastry and composite can explain good sexual chemistry.

The best sex I have had, we had his venus sextile my venus conjunct mars, and his mars trined my venus conjunct mars, his mars also conjuncted my Neptune which rules my 5th house, we had venus pluto double whammy (parallel and by aspect) plus his moon conjuncted and paralleled my moon forming a love yod with our venuses and we had sun trine moon. In composite we had a sun conjunct mars, pluto and valentine tight stellium in the 1H and a tsquare between moon opposite venus squaring neptune. In davison we had moon conjunct venus, in synastry and composite our angles were highly activated...

posted March 15, 2018 11:46 AM            

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Chiron can be dangerous because Chiron's Pluto is on Chiron's NN. Jim Morrison, Keith Richards, Jimmy Page, Fidel Castro, Dennis Rodman, Justin Bieber, etc. If you go strictly Chiron on NN, we get Sharon Tate, Jimi Hendrix, Howard Stern, etc.

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I see Chiron's pluto on the northnode ruled by venus to mean that the goal of chiron is transformation through love, it is very interesting the southnode of chiron is in aries and the northnode is in libra with pluto there.

posted March 15, 2018 12:07 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I don't know, other things in your synastry and composite can explain good sexual chemistry.

The best sex I have had, we had his venus sextile my venus conjunct mars, and his mars trined my venus conjunct mars, his mars also conjuncted my Neptune which rules my 5th house, we had venus pluto double whammy (parallel and by aspect) plus his moon conjuncted and paralleled my moon forming a love yod with our venuses and we had sun trine moon. In composite we had a sun conjunct mars, pluto and valentine tight stellium in the 1H and a tsquare between moon opposite venus squaring neptune. In davison we had moon conjunct venus, in synastry and composite our angles were highly activated...

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posted March 15, 2018 12:17 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I see Chiron's pluto on the northnode ruled by venus to mean that the goal of chiron is transformation through love, it is very interesting the southnode of chiron is in aries and the northnode is in libra with pluto there.

Escobar's nothnode in Aries aligning with Chiron's southnode in aries set him up to identify more with Chiron's southnode and using war to deal with his pain instead of using love to transform and heal. That is the beauty of Chiron lol, that could be your next thread.

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