posted July 27, 2017 06:45 PM            

However, if I were to come to believe it then it wouldn't change my view of astrology. My own theory is that the power of astrology actually comes from the Collective Unconscious of our species...and that before Pluto was discovered then Pluto didn't really factor into a proper natal chart because its energy wasn't there (and had Pluto been given a different name then it would exert a different influence). I wonder if someone born in deep space would feel it at all as they weren't immersed in the psychic energy of their species and Gaia-sphere....maybe they would, and maybe they wouldn't.

posted July 27, 2017 10:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I've heard of this and think it's a load of **** . People who believe in this theory to me are delusional.

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I agree. It tends to get a harsh response, but there's no point 'debating' an idea that is so easily disproved and was left behind so long ago.

posted July 27, 2017 11:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I've heard of this and think it's a load of **** . People who believe in this theory to me are delusional.

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Let me be clear, I don't believe in this theory either. Not one bit. But I find it fascinating. If you actually take the time to listen to these people (I'm nice, and I have a friend who is into it) they have explanations for everything.

Kannon, I also asked about the eclipses. Was met with some mysterious dark object explanation...idk.

Maybe the better question is: Why is this coming back NOW??!!

Why not 10, 20, or 50 years ago?

posted July 27, 2017 11:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't believe it, but I've been fascinated with some of ideas associated about it and tempted to come up with a fantastic story that presumes a flat earth and other fantastical elements (something new, but with shades of Jules Verne and a strong dash of Lewis Carroll).

However, if I were to come to believe it then it wouldn't change my view of astrology. My own theory is that the power of astrology actually comes from the Collective Unconscious of our species...and that before Pluto was discovered then Pluto didn't really factor into a proper natal chart because its energy wasn't there (and had Pluto been given a different name then it would exert a different influence). I wonder if someone born in deep space would feel it at all as they weren't immersed in the psychic energy of their species and Gaia-sphere....maybe they would, and maybe they wouldn't.

That's my theory (and I'm not the only one who holds that view), but I also learned an Old School version which the core philosophy was "As Above, So Below." What this means is that occult/spiritual forces were reflected in the world around us which is why astrology was significant, because studying astrology was essentially studying the reflection of higher vibrations as they were manifesting on the material plane (and could thus predict manifestations before they appeared by learning the movements). And if I held that to that view then it also seems irrelevant if the Earth were flat rather than round (more pear-shaped, technically speaking).

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posted July 28, 2017 01:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by bananaz:
Let me be clear, I don't believe in this theory either. Not one bit. But I find it fascinating. If you actually take the time to listen to these people (I'm nice, and I have a friend who is into it) they have explanations for everything.

Kannon, I also asked about the eclipses. Was met with some mysterious dark object explanation...idk.

Maybe the better question is: Why is this coming back NOW??!!

Why not 10, 20, or 50 years ago?

What is it about 2017 that has people hyped on FET?

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posted July 28, 2017 02:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't believe it, but I've been fascinated with some of ideas associated about it and tempted to come up with a fantastic story that presumes a flat earth and other fantastical elements (something new, but with shades of Jules Verne and a strong dash of Lewis Carroll)

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The back of my mind has been coming back to this over and over since I posted this earlier today. Several ideas popped up, like that the Greys were essentially "merfolk" of dolphins with telepathic abilities and the ability to stun prey like dolphins can (and mimicking tales of those abducted by Greys who can't move) which they do to defend themselves from humans. Humans pursue them as they like to capture them for shows, studies, and because they're competition.

Meanwhile, enslaved dwarves and gnomes finally gain second class citizenship when humans realized no amount of brutal slavery would get much from them, and gnome abilities were too valuable to ignore. They struggle for equality but find the real power is in Capitalism, though their growing wealth makes them a target much like our own history (which I won't repeat given the inability of too many human brains to react rationally if it offends their political mental lens) and this allows steampunk technology to fill the land that includes submersibles which chases the dolphin merfolk into the deepest levels...and into the Hollow Earth (similar to the Land of the Lost region, especially when one come to the "bottom" of the flat earth which is essentially a twin side with its own gravity plane so "down is up and up is down").

And there they mutate under a sun like object into becoming much more like the Greys as imagined in our world (with feet instead of fins, effectively becoming two species, though being so telepathic they recognize each other by neurology than physical form so they see no difference here) where they then turn their brilliant minds (that can read minds) into mimicking and advancing the steampunk technology humans have used against them. Their agents then manipulate parties on many sides of the fence (very discretely) and they use many insidious tricks while marketing technology to humans ever greedy for for God's favor (which everyone knows is the one with the most money and best mil-tech which are inevitably the same) as they subtly plan to create a new world order (I'm picturing them as neither good nor evil, just another species fighting to survive, and preferably to dominate, though they go about it in their own way).

Then a specially adapted hot air balloon reached the moon to discover a sentient race of savage bird people (big on "songs" and dance while using weapons like spears from flight to take or defend territory, for there isn't much to go around!), but after battles, humans and Greys end up hiding in a cave which they find is made of a copper-nickel alloy which not only allows them to compose the parts they need to escape, but later incite the greed of humans below in which this is a very valuable resource. And in the process they discover and even heal wounded bird folk who were the losers of other clan wars and find the folk are expert linguists able to rapidly learn multiple languages with ease as well as quite clever.

They use nickel bolts for repeating crossbows (using disposable cylinders to fire multiple bolts, like this ) to help retrieve enough of their balloon and gear (which is being investigated by bird people, though the rescued bird folk turned allies help incite other clans to fight over the prize allowing the humans and Greys to escape taking the exiled birdfolk with them back to Flat Earth), and I'm even seeing how they can direct it to the ocean where it becomes aquatic. (No doubt this short, less than 8 minutes to the end credits, about American McGee's Alice Liddel/Alice in Wonderland meeting Jules Verne in some Wonderland of his own is inspiring me here.)

In any case, more humans go for the mine only to end up uniting the various bird clans who, to their chagrin, find the birds are able to fly straight from the moon down to Earth, and they rapidly close the technological gap (taking over production facilities and creating armor of repulsion fields made from lunar metals with strange magnetic properties which allows them to gain air superiority over other races that help make up for the fact the bird folk are outnumbered, but now that they have all of Earth to conquer they're also united in a way that no other race is, save maybe the Greys), which in turn makes humans pander to the Greys all the more seeking the edges they need.

And ideas for using phlogiston and other methods to sail ships to Venus, or perhaps a species on Venus that has been spying on them that has decided the Earthlings are becoming too dangerous may also feature.

And surely shades of Lovecraft will also paint the scene. (ETA: I just had an image of "tree branches" at the bottom of the Flat Earth which people investigate to find it goes to an ocean far below Flat Earth filled with strange psychic jellyfish, and that the branches are part of a Lovecraftian monster of epic proportions that has calcified in its own way under the same sun object that affects many things like Grey mutations, and the branches are tentacles reaching up into the flat earth above are the reason for earthquakes, and each quake also weakens the bonds that mostly hold it still...and I'm now also seeing another mutant variant of Greys which are cephalopods, and maybe that one variety has telepathic access to the beast and/or jellyfish below the bottom of the Flat Earth. And maybe this is why the Venusians attack, who also experience similar tentacles going into their Flat Venus and know better than to mess with it.)

I really don't want to do this, but unfortunately these stories tend to choose me to write them rather than the other way around. And if I do then the nature of the story will change at some point once I have a greater feel for the world(s) and history.

posted July 28, 2017 02:37 AM            

Its as if as a race we've devolved back into Neanderthals...

posted July 28, 2017 03:37 AM            

I've seen this one:

posted July 28, 2017 05:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by outofideas:
Been waiting for this moment...

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posted July 28, 2017 04:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
Are any of them Trump supporters? I'm not trying to get political, I've just noticed this sort of thing from some of them (not all). I left a political astrology forum, because it was full of nasty people, who treated conspiracy theories as fact (they were nasty about most things, like Ariana Grande, or to Liberals in general).

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I do believe in some of the conspiracy theories (Illuminati, Anunnaki, because of the evidence like the symbolism in logos and "Elohim" verses in the Bible) and lean to the left, but the flat Earth conspiracy isn't one, and is likely a distraction from the REAL issues, like the growing wealth gap, because it's irrelevant to the problems going on right now. The owner of librarising.com was a HUGE flat Earth proponent and the content on the site hardly had a right wing agenda.

Anybody who says only the left or the right are involved with the Illuminati and that Christianity isn't part of the Illuminati control system (most right wing conspiracy sites claim this, mainly Henry Makow, who is also known for an anti gay agenda like many fundamentalists) isn't really awake.

posted July 29, 2017 08:26 PM            

This seems to sum up the overall beliefs:
http://www.livescience.com/24310-flat-earth-belief.html

While it sums up beliefs and though processes, I found this part on conspiracy thinking of interest, and likely relevance (though as they point out it doesn't neatly explain Flat Earth beliefs):

quote:

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As inconceivable as their belief system seems, it doesn't really surprise experts. Karen Douglas, a psychologist at the University of Kent in the United Kingdom who studies the psychology of conspiracy theories, says flat-earthers' beliefs cohere with those of other conspiracy theorists she has studied.

"It seems to me that these people do generally believe that the Earth is flat. I'm not seeing anything that sounds as if they're just putting that idea out there for any other reason," Douglas told Live Science.

She said all conspiracy theories share a basic thrust: They present an alternative theory about an important issue or event, and construct an (often) vague explanation for why someone is covering up that "true" version of events. "One of the major points of appeal is that they explain a big event but often without going into details," she said. "A lot of the power lies in the fact that they are vague."

The self-assured way in which conspiracy theorists stick to their story imbues that story with special appeal. After all, flat-earthers are more adamant that the Earth is flat than most people are that the Earth is round (probably because the rest of us feel we have nothing to prove). "If you're faced with a minority viewpoint that is put forth in an intelligent, seemingly well-informed way, and when the proponents don't deviate from these strong opinions they have, they can be very influential. We call that minority influence," Douglas said.

In a study published online March 5, 2014, in the American Journal of Political Science, Eric Oliver and Tom Wood, political scientists at the University of Chicago, found that about half of Americans endorse at least one conspiracy theory, from the notion that 9/11 was an inside job to the JFK conspiracy. "Many people are willing to believe many ideas that are directly in contradiction to a dominant cultural narrative," Oliver told Live Science. He says conspiratorial belief stems from a human tendency to perceive unseen forces at work, known as magical thinking. [Top 10 Unexplained Phenomena]

However, flat-earthers don't fit entirely snugly in this general picture. Most conspiracy theorists adopt many fringe theories, even ones that contradict each other. Meanwhile, flat-earthers' only hang-up is the shape of the Earth. "If they were like other conspiracy theorists, they should be exhibiting a tendency toward a lot of magical thinking, such as believing in UFOs, ESP, ghosts, the Devil, or other unseen, intentional forces," Oliver wrote in an email. "It doesn't sound like they do, which makes them very anomalous relative to most Americans who believe in conspiracy theories."

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And more here: LINK BANNED BY ILLUMINATI

(For whatever reason I cannot post a link here, not to the news article I wanted, nor one that reprinted it. Therefore to find out more, google: "The Flat Earth Theory has seen a resurgence, with people trying to prove our planet is not a sphere")

It includes this:

quote:

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Despite going in and out of favour, the concept regained serious momentum in the mid 20th century when Samuel Shenton established the Flat Earth Society in 1956.

Today, the “Flat Earth” movement has seen a recent resurgence, with Twitter and YouTube acting as incubators the conspiracy.

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Ah yes, good old YouTube. One can find anything there, often told in an android voice of some kind as if the one posting it doesn't want to be identified, nor bothered with making a text version instead.

And things spread fast across the internet, especially with FB to help it along. I remember the resurgence in Black Eye Kids and traced it to some sensationalist piece about them that just mushroomed. I think the most bizarre was when there was virtually no Halloween activity for the first time a couple of years ago, and I traced it to a strange rumor panic . That is so obviously dumb (and even if it were true then what the hell are they expecting, Michael Meyers? ), but apparently too many people made their excuses and nothing could really be organized that Halloween...and I had a lot of leftover candy that year. Most, I think, know it's silly, but just feel "better safe than sorry." I just hope the disappointment wasn't too crushing for many kids that year.

My favorite thing (be it Flat Earth or Halloween 666 or a host of other things) is when people are gullible enough to believe this, but loudly proclaim everyone else not so gullible to be the gullible ones.

Though all things considered I find believing in a Flat Earth harmless as it's not preaching paranoia (not even against doctors and scientists--sure, there may be a conspiracy, but they're not trying to inject you with anything, create epidemics to cull the number of humans, or turn the world into a global police state as more common conspiracy theories promote), or trying to excuse rampant pollution, or take your money, or do anything else harmful. It's just believing in some very strange trivia. Other than those that like to embrace Flat Earth as complementary to their extreme religious literalness (believing their religious text says its flat, and thus choosing Flat Earth beliefs can help bolster beliefs against evolution, etc, and worse, to try to promote a religious tyranny to the best of their ability) I don't even see the appeal, save maybe boredom or a desire to see past the lies.

posted July 29, 2017 10:37 PM            

I read 'the story' that wrote you...
You ARE and have a deep creative genius, PJ-- all the way.

Loved the Jules Verne story a LOT. Great quotes in it! .. The beginning reminded me of Le Petit Prince, then to Star Trek movies, and others. Sci Fi writers have had spin-offs created from nuggets of ideas they've presented.
.. Pieces of it towards the end reminded me so much of mythology of SEDNA.

"Forget not the strength of stories" -- (Leviathan).

Loved the cartoons here!
(Teasel... the kitty!!! awwwww so cute so true ..)

(PJ) You closed your post with mention of Trump?? ...

Here is 'the state of altered consciousness' that I think folks in the USA have been under ever since that November 2016 Election Shocker!!

(topic) Carrie (from 1976 movie, Final Scene) [2:01] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgFjRiwmMZY

Like Flat-Earth (article from the woman who started it) -- started out to be wild and zany and outrageous; something creative and had a shock-value ..... that no took seriously really, until people took it seriously and live inside that strange anesthetic numbness------ like the ending scene of Carrie, when they're looking on the grave--- and the hand shocks-rises from beneath the ground and messes your reality that "it's real" and really still happening???

Here's a song with Nikki Minaj --

example use of fantasy in 'steampunk' art, robotic world.

(music) Turn Me On (David Guetta, Nikki Minaj) [3:30] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVw7eJ0vGfM

- http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Verne,_Jules

- http://www.thelittleprince.com/
- http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Saint-Exup%C3%A9ry%2C_Antoine_de

posted July 30, 2017 01:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Hi PJ ... The last url you left is broken. Is there a way you can hyperlink the whole url?

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I presume you mean the one I replaced with "LINK BANNED BY ILLUMINATI." I tried a couple of tricks to make it work, and after those didn't I went to find someone who reprinted it but even that link wouldn't post right, so I gave up on it. One can find it by googling, "The Flat Earth Theory has seen a resurgence, with people trying to prove our planet is not a sphere"

In case it helps I'll add that the original story appears at news.com.au (it's an Australia news site).

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
I read 'the story' that wrote you...
You ARE and have a deep creative genius, PJ-- all the way.

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Thanks. I'm rather bemused by my own mind at times. I don't want to get distracted with that, but one day I'd like to come back to it. And there are people who love fantastical concepts like that, as long as they make an internal sense. I believe that a great many stories are prone to hiding many symbols and archetypal forces that can appeal to us, and a story of such fantastical, even dream like, concepts really frees it up to let the internal forces express themselves in a way that is generally important but unacknowledged in society.

x

I bet you'd enjoy some of the story of Alice Liddel as portrayed by American McGee, particularly in Madness Returns. You'd likely find a lot of graphic scenes that can be brutal (some in 19th century London, others in a twisted Wonderland) a bit much, but there are compelling moments of it, and showing her fight to regain her sanity and learn the truth was downright poetic at times...and chalk full of symbols (including tarot, though more hinted at).

Having been on the streets yourself, I believe you could relate to orphaned and homeless Alice a lot better than many others could, and the horrors she faces good metaphors for genuine horrors in the world (particularly in the human psyche). When Alice was talking about how she learned not all men of science were driven by noble pursuits in that vid I linked to (Alice with Verne) is in reference to a predatory psychiatrist who could play the compassionate social architect when he was a sadistic, psychopathic monster that preyed upon those he "helped" (and the face "in the tentacle" right then was the face of that evil psychiatrist).

x

Anyway, thanks for that NM steampunk theme vid.

And on a tangential topic...one possible reason for some to be driven to reject what is accepted (such as rejecting a round world for a flat earth) can be because who we really are is squashed (or at least punished) from a young age, at least for most of us. It's not limited to being forced to use the "correct" hand or being the "correct" orientation, but can include the most trivial of things. We are pressured--sometimes by very well meaning people who want the best for us--to adopt a mask, and that mask becomes our face to the point that we believe it ourselves, but deep down we know it's not us and that leaves us insecure and feeling unable to trust the world (or even our perceptions of it). I had a recent insight that this might be a contributing factor for the love of body snatcher and zombie horror genres, about people who are destroyed and replaced, to die inside even when the body seems fine (though in the case of zombie horror, could include when one is "adapted to a horrific society that is no longer seen as horrific, but as normal, or even ideal").

And now I'm thinking that even as Verne couldn't ask the right question, neither can people ask the right questions to escape the masks suffocating them...they just feel discontent, that something is wrong, and they look around to identify what it is...and unable to look within (as they're fooled by their own mask) they instead focus on things like "people say the world is round so maybe it's flat" (when in reality they're trying--but failing--to get at "people say I want to have lots of money and toys, but on some level I find myself deeply unhappy even when I achieve such things because I actually want something else but can no longer remember what it was, or even think to ask the question of who I am because I've been fooled to think I'm who others have made me into").

I know I once shared this with you and you loved it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWbMz_aBlMU

Well here's one I discovered last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIlghWDd7RU

I like finding even pop songs that are like this (as opposed to many that seem smothered by assembly line mentality for the most part with little room for genuine creativity, at least if you want a contract by people who insist you follow a formula), and it matches the themes in some darker genres of music. Assuming you can recall your school years then I would not be surprised if you could relate to how she got in trouble for her creative twist to performing her assignment, even if it showed mastery of the material. It's a common thing (generally speaking, not just limited to paintings of flowers or even the visual arts) for kids to get in trouble for. I did, as did generations before me, and kids today.

And those who either give up who they are, or are constantly punished for it, are going to suffer a toll, one that not only keeps body snatcher and zombie movies popular (not to say this element is the only reason for the popularity of such), but will give people an uneasy feeling when they hear something is a certain way, because deep down a part of them remembers how much they were lied to until they themselves came to believe the lies, and now just walk around dazed (zombified?) trying to remember what they forgot (themselves!) and how to get back to where they lost who they were.

posted July 30, 2017 04:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kewf1988:
I do believe in some of the conspiracy theories (Illuminati, Anunnaki, because of the evidence like the symbolism in logos and "Elohim" verses in the Bible) and lean to the left, but the flat Earth conspiracy isn't one, and is likely a distraction from the REAL issues, like the growing wealth gap, because it's irrelevant to the problems going on right now. The owner of librarising.com was a HUGE flat Earth proponent and the content on the site hardly had a right wing agenda.

Anybody who says only the left or the right are involved with the Illuminati and that Christianity isn't part of the Illuminati control system (most right wing conspiracy sites claim this, mainly Henry Makow, who is also known for an anti gay agenda like many fundamentalists) isn't really awake.

If the Earth really is flat, it makes no difference in astrology, as the characteristics of people born every month (Sun) are very accurate, as well as people born every day and a half (Moon) and every 12-32 years (Pluto/Neptune, the signs that are prominent when you're in a group of people your age). The current system works regardless if the Earth is round (which I'm sure of, as I doubt people flying from Japan to California go through all of Asia, Europe, and the rest of the US to get there, rather than just flying over the Pacific Ocean) or flat.

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I was talking from my experience with people who believe in this sort of thing.

posted July 31, 2017 02:33 PM            

I'm just glad you're here, PJ. ...
You made it through some dangerous territory.

One of these days, you gonna PUBLISH some of those sci-fi stories???
Will we be seeing 'film credits' go by with your name some day??

Even run for public office...