posted August 31, 2017 01:24 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
These clinicians treat individuals who suffer from disorders that are similar to delusional disorder–jealous type, such as morbid jealousy, pathological jealousy, conjugal paranoia, and Othello syndrome, yet these diagnostic categories are not represented in the DSM-IV-TR diagnosis of delusional disorder–jealous type.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jclp.20442/abstract

Delusional disorder–jealous type is a new diagnostic category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR; American Psychiatric Association, 2000) in which delusions concerning a partner's infidelity must be present. Therefore, patients who experience a jealousy disorder, but do not experience delusions will not fit the diagnostic criteria. Using a database of 398 case histories of jealousy disorders reported in the literature from 1940–2002, we examined the percentage of these cases that met the diagnostic criteria for delusional disorder–jealous type. Only 4% of the cases met all diagnostic criteria. This is the first systematic comparison of the prevalence of these disorders. The results provide evidence that the diagnostic criteria are not inclusive, as most individuals suffering with a jealousy disorder were excluded from the diagnosis. © 2008 Wiley Periodicals, Inc. J Clin Psychol 64: 1–12, 2008.

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Truly hope I'm expressing this in a non offensive or rude way. I do not want my comments to be seen as troublesome, offensive, or unkind.

I've seen a lot of this on the news lately about using diagnostic criteria to diagnose individuals. This is being done with the President, and I have seen it on this website. Having said that I want to caution anyone against using snippets of things to blanket diagnose people, traits or behaviors. Not to mention it is not done by clinicians, because you can't actually diagnose a person unless you see them. Psychology, and in turn diagnosing a patient of anything is a very very delicate act and is not done without careful examination of behaviors as related to the specific individual. Taking behavior or attitudes and applying them to a disorder or psychological issue is like saying a Cancer being moody means they are on the Bipolar Spectrum etc.

Having said that, Delusional Disorder with the subset of Jealously (which I'm not even sure if the subsets are in the current DSM or were scrapped) is closely tied to Schizophrenia. In fact (again if I remember correctly according to the DSM V...which is the diagnostic edition used currently) it is on the spectrum. My background is not in clinical psych (it is in I/O), and I'm simplifying so if someone has a clinical psych background and extensive experience with the current DSM that would be great.

posted August 31, 2017 05:18 PM            

Put a Scorpio Moon with someone they can't fully trust and watch the ugliness come out - especially if they are attached to said person. Sever the tie between them and watch the Scorpio Moon calm right back down again.

posted August 31, 2017 09:06 PM            

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Originally posted by GrlyGirl200:
Truly hope I'm expressing this in a non offensive or rude way. I do not want my comments to be seen as troublesome, offensive, or unkind.

I've seen a lot of this on the news lately about using diagnostic criteria to diagnose individuals. This is being done with the President, and I have seen it on this website. Having said that I want to caution anyone against using snippets of things to blanket diagnose people, traits or behaviors. Not to mention it is not done by clinicians, because you can't actually diagnose a person unless you see them. Psychology, and in turn diagnosing a patient of anything is a very very delicate act and is not done without careful examination of behaviors as related to the specific individual. Taking behavior or attitudes and applying them to a disorder or psychological issue is like saying a Cancer being moody means they are on the Bipolar Spectrum etc.

Having said that, Delusional Disorder with the subset of Jealously (which I'm not even sure if the subsets are in the current DSM or were scrapped) is closely tied to Schizophrenia. In fact (again if I remember correctly according to the DSM V...which is the diagnostic edition used currently) it is on the spectrum. My background is not in clinical psych (it is in I/O), and I'm simplifying so if someone has a clinical psych background and extensive experience with the current DSM that would be great.

Having said that, extreme jealously is not good for one's self esteem, but it certainly does not mean that you have a disorder anymore than being awkward and shy means you are on the Autism Spectrum.

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I did not post that to diagnose anybody at all LOL, I dont know what gave you the impression I was diagnosing someone. I did not quote anyone or anything.

I posted that information to point out the difference between healthy jealousy and pathological jealousy. I posted it so people would read it and inform themselves of the difference between the two, well at least to get a little bit of an idea anyways.

posted August 31, 2017 09:08 PM            

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Originally posted by margym0o:
Also, I don't think enough is said about a person being heavily influenced by another person who brings out the worst in them.

Put a Scorpio Moon with someone they can't fully trust and watch the ugliness come out - especially if they are attached to said person. Sever the tie between them and watch the Scorpio Moon calm right back down again.

I'm a firm believer it doesn't HAVE to be this way, all the time, for either Moon or Venus. The company they keep says a lot about which traits will surface, good or bad.

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I do feel synastry can play a role definitely in bringing out jealousy. Like I may be more jealous with someone I am not in love with bc of the synastry that we have than with someone I am in love with.

posted September 02, 2017 09:18 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I did not post that to diagnose anybody at all LOL, I dont know what gave you the impression I was diagnosing someone. I did not quote anyone or anything.

I posted that information to point out the difference between healthy jealousy and pathological jealousy. I posted it so people would read it and inform themselves of the difference between the two, well at least to get a little bit of an idea anyways.

I don't think therapists or doctors should diagnose anyone whom they have not met in person and seeing for a while and I am not accusing anyone here of having pathological jealousy, I dont know you all like that lol. I am the first person to laugh when therapists diagnose any president with mental health issues and think it is ridiculous to that and unethical.

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Oh, ok I did not think you were diagnosing anyone. I'm not gonna lie, it did seem that you were suggesting that if a person is jealous they must have a mental health issue. Keep in mind you yourself pointed up and down that the Scorpio men you dealt with were mature and evolved etc and weren't jealous. Even when others pointed out they experienced differently, then you posted the article about something that isn't even recognized in the psych community that quotes an outdated diagnostic criteria (to seemingly conform your idea of why the men you dealt with weren't jealous). Maybe I was looking at it differently than what you were actually doing, but this is what I surmised from your response. But at the end of the day it's not a big deal at all, as your words shined a light and forced an open dialogue on mental health in regards to astrological patterns. And that's no small feat. I hope it forces people to look up the current standards and methodologies related to how clinical psychology actually works and benefits people...and I hope the talk continues.

posted September 03, 2017 03:04 PM            

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Originally posted by GrlyGirl200:
Oh, ok I did not think you were diagnosing anyone. I'm not gonna lie, it did seem that you were suggesting that if a person is jealous they must have a mental health issue. Keep in mind you yourself pointed up and down that the Scorpio men you dealt with were mature and evolved etc and weren't jealous. Even when others pointed out they experienced differently, then you posted the article about something that isn't even recognized in the psych community that quotes an outdated diagnostic criteria (to seemingly conform your idea of why the men you dealt with weren't jealous). Maybe I was looking at it differently than what you were actually doing, but this is what I surmised from your response. But at the end of the day it's not a big deal at all, as your words shined a light and forced an open dialogue on mental health in regards to astrological patterns. And that's no small feat. I hope it forces people to look up the current standards and methodologies related to how clinical psychology actually works and benefits people...and I hope the talk continues.

Having said that, as a Moon Pluto person I would say that it does go down to trust and perhaps not the synastry between two people. For me the synastry is just a little preface or slice of a relationship that can show trends (for instance Mars Pluto won't manifest as abuse if your relationship isn't abusive at the start)...not specifics. So I do agree with you about the synastry and I do agree with Charlie about the internal experience as well.

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Its very simple everyone experiences jealousy especially when they are young but most people outgrow this as they mature. That been said there are people that are jealous pathologically and are consumed with jealousy and ideas of been cheated on a daily basis without having any proof of infidelity even though they have partners who are actually faithful and constantly reassuring them.

In the DSM they have a subtype under delusional disorder called the jealous type. However, there is a reason why they have come up with so many labels for this outside of the DSM to try to explain this phenomenon. I have come across this often in my field. Its like an obsession and compulsion, it consumes the person's life.

There are plenty of peer reviewed journal articles that use the operational term 'othello's syndrome' in the research studies they conduct and review.

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144984/

2. http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1955/10000/THE_OTHELLO_SYNDROME__A_Study_i n_the.8.aspx

There is such a thing as pathological jealousy and is a real problem that affects severely the life of the person who is suffering from it and their spouse, its a nightmare.

I did imply from the start that I felt jealousy is a waste of energy and time and that is something people should outgrow but up to a point we are biologically wired to experience some jealousy. I then shared information about pathological jealousy PRECISELY to point out that that there is a difference between normal jealousy and pathological jealousy and yes when it gets to the point that it is pathological then it becomes a mental health issue and you should seek help.

Hence, I don't think jealousy is something that enriches your life or your relationships in any way but admit everyone is capable of experiencing some jealousy and that some jealousy is natural and unavoidable because of how we are wired biologically. I also know that some jealousy reaches a point that is pathological and then it becomes a mental health issue and a serious problem.

I hope this clears fully any misunderstandings you have about my views on jealousy. If for whatever reason I did not express my views clearly and fully enough in previous posts, I hope this clears it fully for you now and we don't keep going around in circles. At no point did I imply that jealousy automatically means mental health issues. I did write a research paper in grad school about normal jealousy in the context of evolutionary psychology and why is a trait that has survived, I got an A plus in that paper. I have also witnessed pathological jealousy in the works as a counselor, very toxic. Like mostly everything in the field of clinical psychology there is a spectrum.

I share information and expect people to do their own research and connect the dots btw, I have responded to your post bec perhaps you dont realize this about me so I am connecting the dots in this response so you get the whole picture of how I feel since you seem to think I thought jealousy equals mental health issues, if you know me you know the last thing I am is a black and white thinker, I am a very deep thinker and highly analytical.

I will reinforce again that yes there are plenty of male scorpios I have met who are confident and not insecure and experience jealousy at a healthy normal level and two of them fell in love with me and talked about marrying me relatively quickly within the initial months of dating. Although jealousy is natural to a point, it is not a virtue.