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Author Topic:   Beyonce ASC - Kannon McAfee
capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 02:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Kannon. I was going through some old threads and saw you were doing a little rectifying on Beyonce's chart a while ago. You said your friend Shaun thinks she is a Pisces rising and that you kind of agreed with him. I was confused at first but now I can definitely see that as her ASC.

I agreed that she is probably not a Leo or Libra rising...IDK, I just never get that vibe from her as her ASC and after looking through some of those threads, it seems like the transits and life events don't match up that well either. She is definitely not a 12th house sun either. She has too much personality! She is quiet but so vivacious and has the brightest light around her. She is so hardworking and confident and I feel like 12th house people doubt themselves a lot, especially if it's your Sun. Beyonce does not ever seem to doubt herself or her personality.


The Pisces ASC would explain why it is so hard to pin her down. All the Pisces ASC ppl in Hollywood seem to have had trials and tribulations happen to them before we finally received the birth time straight from the certificate (Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, etc...) She has that pretty dainty face that can transform into anything and everything and loves so hard, just like a Pisces.


I don't think she has Cancer in there either. Maybe moon conjunct the ASC...Not Cancer ASC or MC though. That doesn't seem right to me. Pisces ASC puts Ceres in 7th which could indicate Cancer-like/Mother-like image in her relationships with her fans. Sun is probably in the 6th though.

Have you ever rectified a solid time or timeframe? I know it must be difficult since it seems like no one in her family has ever stated if she was born in the morning or afternoon or anything like that. I don't trust astrotheme on this one either. They are really bad at verifying their birth times ( to my dismay, I.E. they said Lorde is a Capricorn rising with A rodden score but just this week Lorde herself verified she is a scorpio sun AND rising. Ugh). The source on the databank is IMDB too so I'm just kind of like...yeeeeah. No. Definitely not true!


You seem to have a very keen mind when it comes to rectifying (you make lots of valid points), so I will definitely stay up to date if you ever get back to rectifying her chart (it's fine if you don't, I was just curious!).

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 02:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, Kannon, what do you think of Rihanna's ASC? Have you ever tried to rectify her chart? I don't think she is an Aries ASC. I had always thought she was Aquarius ASC or just an air ASC. In Vedic astrology, the nakshatra for the part of Aquarius I am thinking of is called Dhanistha and the descriptions of it seem to fit Rihanna and her ascent and current acclaim to fame very well. She is idolized in the same way as Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana and they both had Dhanistha moons.

Her birthtime source on the databank is also suspicious! IMDB!

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Aries23Degrees
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posted February 10, 2018 04:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes!!! If that is her true Asc,my guess was right. But it was just a guess I had after reading about Sun in 7th and how they pride themselves on being married.

If its true....yipee!!

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Nine
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posted February 10, 2018 08:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought consensus was Sagittarius for Beyonce's Ascendant. With a Neptune conjunction.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Yes!!! If that is her true Asc,my guess was right. But it was just a guess I had after reading about Sun in 7th and how they pride themselves on being married.

If its true....yipee!!


Yes I also get the feeling her Sun is aspecting the Ascendant/MC axis somehow. If not a Pisces ASC, I am also willing to believe she is another mutable ASC. She comes off as too versatile and bubbly at times to have all those cardinal planets near her 1st house. Cardinal people, to me, are very serious and not so easily impressionable. Beyonce comes off as very impressionable, especially since her parents seem to have done everything to help her get to where she needed to be. She is confident on her own but definitely seems like the type who needs the help of her surrounding family to keep her stable. I don't think a Cardinal rising with cardinal planets in the 1st/near the 1st would be like this...They are too independent. They like family but they would never depend on it for everything. ...

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nine:
I thought consensus was Sagittarius for Beyonce's Ascendant. With a Neptune conjunction.

I didn't know that but that could also be quite valid imo.. I was just going through the old Beyonce threads and it seemed like everyone was debating Libra and Leo but then Kannon came in and made some very valid points about how it most likely isn't due to the rectification not adding up with her life events.


I think what some of the people agreed on in the threads is that a mutable ASC is the most possible for her. I agree with this. Sag is very possible but I liked Kannon and Shaun's idea of the Pisces ASC. Another good note that Kannon made is that because the mutable signs share the same modality, that means the transits would hit in a similar way to each mutable sign so it is very possible to get the mutable rising mixed up for her. But mutable is also seeming to be the most agreed upon right now.

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Melinn
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posted February 10, 2018 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Melinn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think she is a Sagg rising. Them legs!
She has strong bone structure and a thick frame, not virgo like at all.

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anonymidarkness
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posted February 10, 2018 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Umm I go for Sag too, that hair, and her body and ofcourse her fiery energy, Neptune conj. ASC for the glamour.
But I also know some Pisces risings who look kinda similar to her.
Her voice comes off as Sag more than Pisces though.
Never been attracted to her, maybe it's that voice of hers I dislike.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hear that a lot, that people don't really like the timbre of Beyonce's voice. I wonder what it is. I guess some people's voices really are just up to personal preference.

If she is Sag rising there would be Sun in the 10th (probably), which makes sense. Her father was a very dominating figure in her life while growing up and he constantly pushed her career forward as much as he possibly could. He was even her manager for the longest time. I don't think he is anymore though.

Sun in the 7th and Sun in the 10th both make sense for Beyonce to be honest. Her relationship with her father is kind of love-hate. He was in and out of their family life when she was a very young child (early parental divorce), before he eventually came back; but only to be a manager in her career. He cheated on her mother a lot too. Even had some kids with his mistresses. Yikes.


I think Beyonce loves her father but he is clearly an iffy person to be around at times for her. Problems with the father in the household and career life, definitely indicates that her Sun is on an angular house. Mutable rising.

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Belage
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posted February 10, 2018 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's quite a controversial subject.

Imo, Pisces rising she is NOT. She is not the kind of person who has sun in 7th. She is too self-oriented and too self-possessed.

The self-promotion and braggadocio in her songs are not Piscean rising at all.

There is not much mutability about her appearance. Basically long leonine hair, sexy outfits, voluptuous figure are her trademark. Been like that for decades.

Leo or Sagg, could be. Personally I lean toward Leo with ascendant close to Mars. She elicits strong emotions, her fans are always fighting those who don't like her. She is Queen Bey with a beehive and loyal servants. That's just not Piscean at all.

Pisces rising celebrities: Michael Jackson (supposedly), Whitney Houston (most definitely), Gwyneth Paltrow, Demi Moore, etc.

Do you see the mutability and vulnerability and yes fragility their Piscean ascendant project? I am not seeing this in self-assured, ass-kicking, not going down without a fight, bow down ******* , Girls rule the World, Put a ring on it, bootilicious Bey.

Her body of work as an artist speaks for itself, and it's anything but Piscean.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted February 10, 2018 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
capricorncheriscty,

I haven't really been able to work much more with Beyonce's chart (low priority), but I was able to verify by email with the Astrotwins that Beyonce gave the time 10 AM to them at an in-person reading. So while that suggests Libra should be her rising sign, I had already eliminated that possibility (as well as Leo). So the next closest is Virgo rising charts with Sun or Jupiter in aspect with the Asc. That's what I was looking at last. Not that I even like the idea of any version of double Virgo for such a strongly musical magnetic performer. It definitely requires planetary fire in relation to the Asc.

About Rihanna's Asc, I have no idea and have never really looked into it.

Rectification of the charts of public figures can be grueling and fraught with difficulty, including word-of-mouth erroneous birth time quotes. Then there is the misleading impression that can be gotten from someone's stage persona that does not give a good view into who the person really is through and through. Sometimes the process of elimination in an intelligent, meticulous effort just is not worth the time.

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Soul Stars Astrology - by the declinations guy
Declinations: because the planets move north and south of the celestial equator

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 10, 2018 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kannon, I completely understand. It does sound like a very tedious process to rectify their charts when you can't speak to them in person. I imagine the birth time given to the Astrotwins was probably not accurate. Like someone else said, it is not very common to be born exactly on the hour. Also, I have seen several professional astrologers either lying about doing celebrity charts (like the people who did Lorde's chart. They said she was Cap rising with A rodden rating but lorde verified she is a Scorpio sun and rising, they probably just rectified a false time for her) or they genuinely just receive the wrong birth time from the celebrity, either because the celebrity didn't know better (like Michael Jackson ) or because the celebrity is very well aware of how astrology works and is trying to manipulate their image for privacy reasons (like Madonna).

Anyway, I just thought it was interesting you guys came up with a mutable rising. I definitely can see that happening for her. Interesting interpretation and hopefully one day we will be able to know what her true birth time is (hopefully not when she is dead).

Thanks for replying Kannon.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted February 13, 2018 12:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Going over my notes again this evening and bringing some new tools into play that I've added since I last worked with Beyonce's chart, I have a chart that finally stands out. I should be able to get a 100% verification soon, and hopefully get a blog post together for it.

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Soul Stars Astrology - by the declinations guy
Declinations: because the planets move north and south of the celestial equator

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Aries23Degrees
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posted February 13, 2018 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am curious about it now Kannon. Not that I am a big Beyonce fan. But how a certain chart stood out for you.

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FatedCinderella
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posted February 13, 2018 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FatedCinderella     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Come on no one would ever tell Michael or Beyonce were a virgo sun if we needed TOB to check their sun sign.Yet they are.I bet the first guess would be sag,leo or aries.There's some bias towards certain signs in astrology that is really irritating.

She could be a leo or any other rising.She for sure can be a pisces! Why not?Her power is based on her whole chart and how she deals with her own energy.We can have all the good ingredients on our table but if we don't know how to make our meal all the potential is pretty pointless.

Being the master of your own energy is the real POWER.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted February 13, 2018 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@fatedcinderella

I think people view her stage persona and insist upon only that and her hair and and and.

They overlook that whom she is on stage is an "act" and not whom she is in real life.

I see her Virgo ethic in her work come through in her image. She demands perfection and as such she raises the bar to be "larger than life" on stage. Just as Michael Jackson was known to do.

The similarities between she and Michael Jackson in my view, cannot be overlooked. She embodies the same work ethic as her fellow Virgin.

I watched her before she became "Queen Bee". Whilst she was still a part of Destiny's Child and singing lead vocals.

In her interviews she is not sassy-even as she has assumed the "Sasha Fierce" identity. She just is plain really and even ..dare I say shy.

But she works hard. She tries to "up" the game and capture the attention of her fans. But beyond the stage persona, "Queen Bee" disappears into the crevices of obscurity.

I found Kelly Rowland to have more "spunk" and pazzazz which I would associate with fire. Beyonce Knowles didn't stand out much with me personality-wise beyond being the "light skinned" chick in Destiny's Child.

She co-wrote most of the songs and was clearly the leader of the group. And this was waaay back when Latoya and Latavia were a part of the group

Granted that there are shy Leo Ascendants who perhaps have Neptune squaring or opposing the Asc. Or even reacting with the Ic/Mc

And there may be Pisces Ascendant who aim to be at the top with the big boys(John Mccain) and are no wilting flower. I get that.

I could be heavily mistaken, but I really don't see the fire Asc enthusiasm and audacity. Not even Sun/Jupiter possibly on on the angles.

Her life events could be more telling I guess. So am waiting on Kannon to finish doing his thing so as to take a look.

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FatedCinderella
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posted February 13, 2018 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FatedCinderella     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Aries.

I actually believe Beyonce can be a Leo ascendent due to her masculine energy.Not her hair or anything but I will explain why below.

What bothers me is that people see pisces/virgo/cancer as weak.Gemini as fake,capricorn as boring and aquarius as non existent etc.Like if they never could be the queen.Everytime that there's a powerful woman out there people try to see their glory through Leo/libra/scorpio/sag glasses.They have to have those signs somewhere on their chart to explain why they are so powerful.One single aspect is the reason why they stand out.

I wonder where are the other leos or scorpio asc's that ain't shinning.

They say Marilyn Monroe had a Leo ASC.Let's assume that both Beyonce and her have a leo ASC.

They have a very different stage presence.

They both are/were powerful.BUT Beyonce have a much more tomboy facade compared to Marilyn who were super feminine.

Based on what we see and not their private lives \/

Marilyn had a very strong feminine power.

Beyonce have a more "I can do anything I want" "We're going to rule the world" which is in essence > masculine power.Based on her style and songs I would say leo asc with mars in 1st house like Belage have said.I believe is leo much more due to mars in 1st house than leo itself.

Keep talking about Marilyn.Her fame was way beyond her looks.Of course the time was different I know that but even today she still quite different than any other woman on tv.Marilyn didn't have libra on her chart as far as we know but she were more charming and feminine than them.She embraced the traits all astrologers give to...libra.

Charming.sensual and feminine.

If she were a leo ascendent she had moon and jupiter in 7th house which would give her some libra traits but some people don't even consider that we may have traits of the houses our planets are in.

Talking about libra according to astro.com which a lot of people here claimed once "is the most valuable source when it comes to time of births of famous people" Beyonce is a Libra ascendent.I never trusted in any website.If Beyonce is truly a libra ASC (she can be) astrology need a seriously rebuilding because the energy she gives to the world seems pretty different to what they call libra.

Oprah is supposedly a sag ascendent.She is very powerful and have the ability to influence a lot of people but her chart isn't too different from our neighbour.I believe she took the best of what she had and received the reward for it.I don't know if they truly have her certificate but if they don't they probably classified her as sag because that puts her sun and venus in 2th house.

Sorry I talked way too much and about other subjects but I wanted to share my opinion with you.

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Kannon McAfee
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posted February 13, 2018 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
... I imagine the birth time given to the Astrotwins was probably not accurate...

I assume that Beyonce gave a relatively accurate time to them. But I make no assumption upon a rounded hour figure to create a precisely accurate birth chart. Recorded time of birth is not synonymous with birth Ascendant.

quote:

... Also, I have seen several professional astrologers either lying about doing celebrity charts (like the people who did Lorde's chart. They said she was Cap rising with A rodden rating but lorde verified she is a Scorpio sun and rising, they probably just rectified a false time for her) ...

I don't share that opinion. I have the audio documentation relating to the 10 AM birth time for Lorde. That is another chart that I plan to work to a conclusion. Lorde does not have the square/rectangular facial outline of a double Scorpio. Her rounded face is more indicative of Venus as seen its square to the proposed Asc in Capricorn.

Also, if we cannot depend on word of mouth times from public persons we certainly cannot rely on quotes relating to their own rising sign under the assumption they are more knowledgeable and precise than professional astrologers. Some astrologers are just poor documentarians of their work, or very secretive. Others jump too quickly to use any old time found on the internet (fan sites, etc).

As to Michael Jackson, the family always said he was born at the time finally made official on ADB the last few years. Unfortunately, astrologers ignored it when another time had gotten into the astrological rumor mill and because so many astrologers added to its legend by writing about it, temporarily lending it pseudo credibility.

My studies related to rectification have shown me recently that there are clues in the planet positions of every person's birth chart as to the Asc degree area they should have. But it is in the terms of planets, not zodiac, and set in the nirayana zodiac (sidereal), which give the essential information that translates into any measuring system (zodiac). That really helps narrow things down without knowing a single thing about the person in question. However, you do have to be a very flexible thinker with a pretty broad knowledge base in astrology. It is this approach that has led me to trust the time Beyonce gave to the Astrotwins, for example. Because the resulting chart possibilities within the 5-hour incarnation doorway of 10 AM do give very reasonable (if unexpected) possibilities for her that match what can be gained from the planetary positions. It is actually the positions of the luminaries in the nirayana zodiac and assessed according to traditional Vedic/Hindu practice of decanates indicating planetary lokas. Those are the consciousness realms visited between lives as also referred to as 'planetary sojourns' by Edgar Cayce. The stronger luminary in that system will point to the planetary consciousness realm from which the soul took flight upon incarnating, or will at least show a planet of such . That planet will show in angular aspect alignment with the Asc and/or MC. Angular aspect means conjunction, parallel, square, opposition, contra-parallel.

So this greatly narrows potential charts to be considered based not merely upon a time quote, but based on where the luminaries are during the day of birth and the limited array of possible aspect relations by the indicated loka planet. So using this ancient wisdom we can take a broader, more general view of the planetary positions for the day of birth to narrow down much more specific possibilities for a person's true birth chart based on their locality.

This eliminates most of the subjective perceptions by a person (astrologer) who is an outsider to the life of the native, and can even be used to eliminate certain rising signs in many cases. It is because we are taking an inter-dimensional view of the person's soul journey and applying that time honored information to finding the chart's correct Asc, regardless of the culturally-specific system used.

Anyway, that's probably more information than anyone asked for, but my points are that I base nothing on mere suspicion the time quote may be wrong and have ways of putting to the test, and that there are such objective testing materials contained within the person's luminary positions if the planetary strength and loka tools of ancient Persia (via India) are used. As a result, I see distinctly possible charts for Beyonce with Virgo over the Asc, even if they are not at all the first we would expect. That is because Jupiter and Neptune indicated by planetary lokas have angular alignments with a couple charts set in that sign, and because with one of them I get very tight alignment of progressed Neptune to the MC at a crucial time in her career.

If you would truly like to study this sort of thing in-depth, get the book Toward a New Astrology by Ry Redd. It integrates ancient Persian/Indian astrological practice with material in the Edgar Cayce readings. You'll need at least a good solid intermediate level of understanding of astrology to follow it. The first couple chapters are written stream style, and should have been edited (or more heavily edited).

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology - by the declinations guy
Declinations: because the planets move north and south of the celestial equator

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 13, 2018 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FatedCinderella:
Come on no one would ever tell Michael or Beyonce were a virgo sun if we needed TOB to check their sun sign.Yet they are.I bet the first guess would be sag,leo or aries.There's some bias towards certain signs in astrology that is really irritating.

She could be a leo or any other rising.She for sure can be a pisces! Why not?Her power is based on her whole chart and how she deals with her own energy.We can have all the good ingredients on our table but if we don't know how to make our meal all the potential is pretty pointless.

Being the master of your own energy is the real POWER.


Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. I wasn't saying there wasn't potential for Beyonce to be a Leo rising. I actually thought she was a long time ago but over the past year and recently looking at Kannon's earlier threads made me change my mind. I was just agreeing with Kannon on his and his friend's rectifications...that mutable rising is most likely.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 13, 2018 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many valid points Kannon! Thanks for your insight

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 13, 2018 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, I didn't know you had a wordpress blog. I just looked at it. I'll stay tuned for whenever you post your information on Beyonce's chart. I'm really interested to see what else you might have to say on it.

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FatedCinderella
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posted February 13, 2018 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FatedCinderella     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I get what you mean Capricorn.Actually sorry for posting so much on your thread,you just wanted kannon's opinion and I shared my own opiniom too much

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areesquivel
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posted February 13, 2018 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for areesquivel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kannon McAfee sorry to interrupt here lol, but I was wondering if you can take a look at a transit chart I left on the Personal Readings, I really want your opinion! thank you.

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capricorncheriscty
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posted February 13, 2018 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capricorncheriscty     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FatedCinderella:
I get what you mean Capricorn.Actually sorry for posting so much on your thread,you just wanted kannon's opinion and I shared my own opiniom too much

Lol no really it's fine, not that big of a deal!

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Nine
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posted February 13, 2018 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[img]
http://ksassets.timeincuk.net/wp/uploads/sites/46/2014/03/Gwyneth-PaltrowBeyonceKnowles-554x830.jpg
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