posted May 04, 2018 04:54 PM            

I am slightly mesmerized by the fact that more and more people like to call themselves NON BINARY and to be honest, it kinda scares me a little because I like things to be slightly more...umm...defined. I'm not a big fan of Neptune! Anyhow, most of these humans seem to be a part of Gen Z (Pluto in Sag) and late Pluto Scorpio. To me it just seems as if each Pluto Gen is out to take revenge and lash out on the previous one..Right now it seems that everything needs to be equal, out in the open, natural and debated. I am a tad reluctant to find out what Pluto in Aqua is all about..am I alive then even??

posted May 04, 2018 05:31 PM            

All of the previously envisioned 'harmless' racism, sexism, homophobia was still very much present until right after I went off to college (When people started getting militant). I think the younger generation is trying to weed out the last bit of all that in our society. Obviously it's never been harmless because there is still inequality, hate crimes and 'rape culture,' which starts from the deeply ingrained cultural mindset that some groups of people are less than human.
I can see how older generations don't understand this radical reconstruction, because they had to deal with what seems like much worse than racist jokes and catcalling, but it really needs to be viewed as part of the problem as long as there is hate on groups of people.

But I personally don't think racists, misogynists, or homophobics will care if the norm is 'non-binary' now, cuz those types of people will always find a reason to hate and a group to hate. But it's a nice try. I think it's more of a pluto in sag thing. The optimists?

posted May 04, 2018 05:45 PM            

As for what's going on - I think we'll discover a new planet soon enough that will help us understand this (if we haven't already?)

posted May 04, 2018 06:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Choc:
It's not a trend.
Google is your friend btw.

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posted May 04, 2018 11:31 PM            

And I also want it clear that non-binary is an umbrella term that means different things even to those who identify as such, with some people surprising you that they identify as non-binary, while others you would think identify as such don't.

x The longer answer:

On one level you have rebellious kids forming their own identities and tribal affiliations (they probably don't think of it in those terms, but that's what it is, and identity politics is as tribal as you can get with even many "inclusive" identities just as tribal with all that entails, good and bad), all facilitated by the internet. Kids have often leaned to being outrageously confrontational which can easily last through their 20s (though they're not wrong on how hypocritical adults are and unfair the world is), and now the internet is recording it all for posterity. This creates a backlash, also fueled the gasoline that is the internet, which can affect those who don't want any part of this, and can even pressure people to accept labels for themselves that they don't need (or if they do, then it's merely a reaction to social factors trying to force them to conform to something other than who they really are).

Furthermore, humans to love to shame others for a variety of reasons, to feel better about their own dirty secrets & insecurities to the thrill of self-righteousness to even just straight up sadistic fun and feeling powerful. The media has facilitated witch hunts as well as pandered to people's desires to see the bizarre (from PT Barnum to Jerry Springer) that of course the internet is going to be used for that, and now what were once the freaks and outcasts can find enough others to support them (keeping all the tribal politics in mind which means they can't truly be themselves all the way if they don't at least somewhat conform to the greater tribe). It's well known that anger is the most likely to be clicked on and shared (even more than lust), so it's exploited by advertisers, news agencies (and in this age of free news who depend upon marketers for their income, we have returned to an age of yellow journalism, or what we call "clickbait" that is increasingly seen in print and TV media as well who must compete), and the like. Even Google has been caught tweaking their search parameters to get hits on things meant to anger people as it's too profitable to ignore. The fact that it spreads a lot of pointless anger isn't a concern of theirs. Of course this anger also discourages anything other than black and white (the simplest kind) thinking.

This also works in political marketing as well, so demagogues and politicians also use it in their propaganda (as the old saying goes, you can have a mass movement without a god, but never without a devil).

That is to say, I don't think it's that different save for how the internet has facilitated it to new levels, connecting people who would've never even known about each other otherwise and goading each other on (this works on a radical conservative and reactionary level just as much as in divergents like "non-binary"). On top of that, they can be more outrageous online, and these days virtually everyone has their phone in their face more often than not which means online and offline life is increasingly being blurred together. And by immersing themselves into their digital bubbles (and any "safe spaces" they construct for themselves in real life) that they become as blind to the greater society similar to being in a cult which isolates them (even if they don't mean to be) while also creating reactionary movements just as radical.

And there have always been those who diverged more or less from gender norms with society and cultural trends fluctuating in how tolerant it is to those (both men and women) who inevitably and naturally diverge from expectations, with some just wanting to be accepted as who they are and others feeling that they are limited or held back in the expression of their true self by gender constructs and thus reject them. That's true even on the biological level (see intersex ). When society is more repressive then things like gender norms can feel too oppressive that they want to break free of. In this climate, anyone who diverges can be identified by reactionaries as non-binary which can chase them into the non-binary groups for protection and support. Of course it can serve as a vehicle of rebellion (as it was with 80s metal and hard rock) which gets conflated with identity, but is more of an act of independence (just a natural part of forming one's own identity away from the immediate family and other authority figures).

I believe that the girls who first joined the Boy Scouts were actually the kind of girls you could easily find in previous generations and merely took advantage of (that is their parents did) of a society trying to be more tolerant. They found Girl Scouts too staid and wanted a different focus on developing their own leadership and scientific skills rather than their artistic ones, or wanted more rugged adventuring and less cookie selling. Up until recently they'd have been told too bad (though Camp Fire has been co-ed for decades, but it's as if many haven't heard of them despite that I think they're better than either BSA or GSA), but in this changing social climate it it is now possible (this doesn't necessarily make them non-binary or even tomboyish, though the reactions will probably push them toward the non-binary camp).

Of course it got politicized with some screaming about the end of all that is decent (FOX News even portrayed it as being the doom of the USA) while others then wanted to make political statements of their own (or even just jealous of all the attention and wanting some of their own for purely narcissistic reasons) and very well could've forced their own girls to join Boy Scouts for ulterior motives (or performing other publicity stunts), and those who identify as non-binary would love it as they think gender constructs are BS anyway and so they see this as validation while those opposed to new emerging norms could use it to (moral) panic others into contributing time and money to political causes that considers such issues tangential at best (but too useful to ignore). I'm CERTAIN that Camp Fire wasn't mentioned by anyone (when some would have to know about it) because that could potentially shut all sides up (since a co-ed option already exists which has proved to be no threat to society), but no one wants to shut up, and were more interested in being angry than in being reasonable (or in collecting ad revenue by working people up about it in clickbait headlines, editorials, and blog posts) as part of a larger political battle. And so all sides are contributing to a **** storm just because a handful of girls didn't fit the stereotypes. Now Boy Scouts is even thinking of changing their name.

A couple of decades ago this wouldn't even be an issue (and hopefully the divergent girls learned about Camp Fire, or some equivalent organization if in another country, and thus find a place that would still accept them). These days, those initial girls may feel non-binary because of the **** storm around them when if it wasn't exploited for ulterior motives by various adults may have never considered themselves non-binary (and may not even today).

xxx

posted May 05, 2018 02:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Choc:
It's not a trend.
Google is your friend btw.

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posted May 05, 2018 10:46 AM            

Secondly, you cannot say someone's sexuality is a trend. Also, the fact that you're having the nerve to say it is "revenge against the older generation". What? People have been non binary for centuries, it simply means that you do not feel the necessity to identify with any gender. You also do not seem to know that non-binary is part of many historical cultures and religions, including those of the Indigenous Peoples of America, the Indigenous Polynesians and many cultures out in South Asia. In Ancient Greece and Rome, there are mythologies and also real life people who have represented genderqueers and nonbinary concept of living. This is not them saying that gender does not exist, it is simply them saying "I don't care enough about gender to define myself by "male" or "female". I am what I am and I love who I love." How is this any different from white and black people saying they do not "see race"? Don't pick and choose your words, then go "don't get your panties in a twist" when you know someone is going to tell you off for asking something that is clearly offensive. You actually said "I'm scared of it" what is there to be scared of? That is very sad and obviously offensive of you to say. You're scared of people not seeing gender but would you say the same to someone who says "I don't see race"? Doubtful. Picking and choosing your words.

Thirdly, How do some of you not get the concept of non-binary people? Is there something to get there? I don't understand what you're saying by your original comment and I have a feeling you don't really understand your words yourself. You just came to start something because you know you CAN start something. Ridiculous question with ridiculous logic so you could spread your close-minded words in the guise of "open and nice discussion".

posted May 05, 2018 11:47 AM            

Your comment came off as pretty abusive and full of assumptions. You don't seem all that interested in sharing knowledge and helping the OP understand, and more interested in lashing out.

If someone doesn't know something, it's better to explain it to them without the need to hurt, offend, and "get back" at them for not sharing your views automatically. The truth is, the OP might not even realize their question is offensive, and might simply really just not understand.

Some people sometimes just will never understand.

That doesn't mean they're out to get you or trying to hurt you.

posted May 05, 2018 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
For starters, that is not Gen Z. Millenials are 1980-2000 so I suppose that is who you're talking about. Gen Z are still children, darling. Yes, some Millenials have Pluto in Libra, Scorpio, or Sagittarius but we do not use astrology to define generations because generations are based off of the biological clock and the environment each group within that biological clock group was raised in. Millenials have all been raised in similar environments and historical events growing up, much different to current Gen Z as Gen Z has more access to the world now more than ever. If you're going to say something then say it right.

Secondly, you cannot say someone's sexuality is a trend. Also, the fact that you're having the nerve to say it is "revenge against the older generation". What? People have been non binary for centuries, it simply means that you do not feel the necessity to identify with any gender. You also do not seem to know that non-binary is part of many historical cultures and religions, including those of the Indigenous Peoples of America, the Indigenous Polynesians and many cultures out in South Asia. In Ancient Greece and Rome, there are mythologies and also real life people who have represented genderqueers and nonbinary concept of living. This is not them saying that gender does not exist, it is simply them saying "I don't care enough about gender to define myself by "male" or "female". I am what I am and I love who I love." How is this any different from white and black people saying they do not "see race"? Don't pick and choose your words, then go "don't get your panties in a twist" when you know someone is going to tell you off for asking something that is clearly offensive. You actually said "I'm scared of it" what is there to be scared of? That is very sad and obviously offensive of you to say. You're scared of people not seeing gender but would you say the same to someone who says "I don't see race"? Doubtful. Picking and choosing your words.

Thirdly, How do some of you not get the concept of non-binary people? Is there something to get there? I don't understand what you're saying by your original comment and I have a feeling you don't really understand your words yourself. You just came to start something because you know you CAN start something. Ridiculous question with ridiculous logic so you could spread your close-minded words in the guise of "open and nice discussion".

I don't know how old you are but I have a tingling feeling in my gut that you're one of the baby boomers who thinks the world is out to get them when the reality is a vast majority of you are ignorant and close-minded people who refuse to see reason any way other than what you have grown up learning. Non binary? A trend? Something that has been around for forever? Revenge against your generation?? HA! As if you people were that important....thank you for putting the country 20 trillion into debt and then acting like being nonbinary is the one of the scariest things possible that you have heard of

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I truly and sincerely hope you NEVER get a chance to raise children because your snide, belittling AND condescending way of responding will surely ruin them for life! And if you already have children, well....I will just assume YOU assumed they popped out knowledgable and ready to go? Without you ever having to teach them anything...in a nice way...

I am literally worried about what someone like you would do if your pet/child has an "accident" on carpet!

You seem like a cold-hearted ***** and it wouldn't be surprising if you actually were a Capricorn :-/

Also, before you open your mouth the next time trying to "put people in their place" and hoping for recognition, do some research and see what others are talking about/asking out there in the world.

I am sick of you idiots who run your mouth and "talk down" to people as if they are uneducated losers and it's people like you that will slowly, but surely, ruin this world. You are NOT above anyone, don't forget that, but if you happen to sit on valuable knowledge the rest of us might need, try to be a nice human and do the right thing.

Oh and lastly, why is it so HARD for some of you to understand that some of us have sincere questions and are not ashamed to ask? Why is it that some of you ALWAYS think the worst of other people by not believing anything they say/write?

Why do I even bother asking you these questions? Because, I want YOU to stop being so close minded and open yourself up to the, seemingly, new idea of that there are still humans on this earth that are NOT tainted, jaded or in other ways ruined.

Keep up your attitude!

JUST because I cannot stand hypocrites like you, this little tidbit was something you just HAD TO toss at SoulofABird a while back:

"Ok, calm down. I don't really care for an attitude today as I didn't have one myself and I'm honestly just tired of people on this website getting so offended over stuff they're reading in their own head, therefore making up their own tone of voice of what they are reading."

posted May 05, 2018 10:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
"I am not trying to offend anyone associating with this so don't get your panties tangled."

Mine got a little sideways but I corrected them quickly because they began to itch.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
I think it's annoying, and I'm gay.

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posted May 05, 2018 10:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
I think we are having a label overload, there are too many labels these days, its getting ridiculous hahahaha...

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posted May 05, 2018 10:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:

If someone doesn't know something, it's better to explain it to them without the need to hurt, offend, and "get back" at them for not sharing your views automatically. The truth is, the OP might not even realize their question is offensive, and might simply really just not understand.

Some people sometimes just will never understand.

That doesn't mean they're out to get you or trying to hurt you.

Are you going to be like this with everyone who doesn't understand? That'll be a lot of people to be condescending to.

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posted May 06, 2018 06:36 PM            

Even biological animal life is not purely binary. Many plants are either hermaphroditic or can turn that way, depending on conditions. Some animals too. Animal (and I believe human) sexual orientation can begin to statistically change, depending on population density. Humans have never been entirely gender binary. A significant, if small, percentage of people are born with varying mixtures of both sexual organs. Why should awareness of that be relegated to the pages a few biology textbooks or pornographic kink-zines leaving them a social underclass?

It is testimony to the low level of overall human evolution at this point that these things are even an issue, especially that it is cause for some to think badly of such persons or to discriminate against them -- especially when religion supports it.

Why not simply recognize the humanity of the person and their identity as they give it?
Why should anyone have to hide themselves, their uniqueness or oddity right in our midst?

Because many humans have spent many centuries hiding these very normal things about themselves, and because they have now found their tribe with each other, they are now coming out for group empowerment to say no more hiding and no more discrimination.

Queer, especially under its newer labels might still seem strange to some of us who can never feel it and know it from the inside, but it is not threatening. We always need human authenticity to challenge polar norms so they cannot be used for oppression by forced artificial choice.

Solidarity!

posted May 09, 2018 12:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by capricorncheriscty:
Because at that particular day, I was not in the mood for their attitude because it was abrupt and unnecessary to my comment on their thread. My comments on their thread were not in any way aimed in malicious or abusive or offensive manner or whatever you people are saying. They read it in their head that way and so they replied to me, trying to start an argument in that way. Your thread is not out of sheer questioning, it was very offensive and aimed in a very sad manner. What "sincere question" did you ask? What you said was not in any way such a thing. You're "scared" of non-binary people? You think non-binary people are out to get the "older generation"? Yeah. Okay. Very sincere questions. Very kind comment. Very sincere thread you've started. I'm a condescending Capricorn A.S.S. for telling you off for saying such disgusting things. So sorry!

But reallly? Good. I'd rather be an "abusive" A.S.S. for telling you how disgusting you are for saying that than anything else. Keep up the good work. You old bitties on this site think you can say whatever you want about whoever you want and get away with it under the guise of trying to have "nice discussion". Maybe you should have kids like me to put you in check when it gets too much. But they might just kick you into a nursing home instead.

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posted May 09, 2018 03:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SoulOfABird:
I dont understand why Millennials hate BabyBoomers so much. I am a Millennial and I like hanging around people that age more than my own age. *cough* some people for example *cough* ^^^

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To be fair, the Pluto in Leo Boomers are a huge reason why the country is in its current situation, as Trump and many of our congress members are Leo Plutos, as were Clinton and Bush. Gore, Biden, and Cheney also have Leo Pluto. That and many of them having big egos are a turnoff for many Scorpio Plutos. Leo and Scorpio square each other... not all Boomers are like that, but a sizeable amount are, and the fact that a lot of them only see the negative side of us and see us as "entitled" when we just want a more fair and just world for EVERYONE only adds fuel to the fire. A lot of them desperately cling to the status quo, when it just isn't working anymore.

As for generations only being defined by a biological clock, I disagree. For example, everybody being born between 1980-2000 being a Millennial is quite a stretch. For example, Pluto in Scorpio is known for growing up with dial up Internet, has a very good memory of 9/11 and the Y2K issue, and Nu Metal, rap, and emo music were very popular when they were in high school. Pluto in Sagittarius were basically born into a technological society while we just grew up in it, were too young to fully remember where they were when 9/11 occurred, didn't experience 90s culture, etc. and Pluto in Libra were graduating high school when the technology boom started happening and grunge, heavy metal, and hair bands were popular when they were in high school while Nu Metal started getting popular when they were in college. 9/11 happened when the 1983 Libra Plutos were starting college... and this doesn't go into the obvious difference in character between the three Pluto generations born in that 20 year span. Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto eliminate any confusion as to the start and end dates of generations, while some people even start Gen X at 1961 and others start it at 1965, and some end it at 1981 (which is the final Uranus in Scorpio year), and the Millennials have similar issues with start and end dates (some even have it end in 2002!). Simple "Pluto in Leo", "Pluto in Virgo", "Pluto in Libra", "Pluto in Scorpio", "Pluto in Sagittarius", etc. would be much more simple and accurate and would eliminate a lot of confusion.

posted May 09, 2018 09:52 PM            

The so industrialized world led in some obvious ways in implementing Uranian energies in practical ways (through machinery, production, and urbanization of populations). But when you add the highly conceptual facets of Neptune things get far stranger and more unpredictable. That is when Uranian energies are no longer applied merely for technological conveniences or advances, but where the ultimately far more creative and new perspectives come along that suspend all previous beliefs. Suspension of previous beliefs or conceptual boundaries -- that can be a key way of understanding Uranus + Neptune.

The Uranus conjunction with Neptune in Capricorn happened 1990-95. They remained in parallel aspect (18-19° south) through 1997, well after Uranus entered Aquarius.

posted May 09, 2018 11:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie:
I am not trying to offend anyone associating with this so don't get your panties tangled

I am slightly mesmerized by the fact that more and more people like to call themselves NON BINARY and to be honest, it kinda scares me a little because I like things to be slightly more...umm...defined. I'm not a big fan of Neptune! Anyhow, most of these humans seem to be a part of Gen Z (Pluto in Sag) and late Pluto Scorpio. To me it just seems as if each Pluto Gen is out to take revenge and lash out on the previous one..Right now it seems that everything needs to be equal, out in the open, natural and debated. I am a tad reluctant to find out what Pluto in Aqua is all about..am I alive then even??

Please discuss and be nice!

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