posted April 10, 2019 12:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
If you really want her back, and you seem adamant, then what's left is to ask yourself what you can offer her, and what she can offer you in return.

I personally think it's about spite with her, but if you insist, there are some things to consider.

Many want to be with someone because of selfishness, because of what they can "get", and don't think much about all they have to give and offer. Be certain you know what you have that you want to give her and share with her. And if you don't have much, then work on yourself to gain traits that are beneficial to you both.

Some advice, if you really do get back together, and she accepts, and if (hopefully) it is not simply about getting back at you on her part, then learn from your past mistakes (as mentioned in first post) and be as honest as possible. Don't beat around the bush if you're afraid she'll leave you or hate you again or not "give you what you want". With holding information, lies of omission, and even straight up lies = that's taking the choice from the other person. You, in your own way, have played power games with her in this respect.

It's hard, but make your own intentions clear to yourself and her, and work to become transparent. And again, this works best if she also wants this, not to tear you apart, but to build something.

If someone leaves you because you are sincere or honest, it is not meant to be seen as a lesson to remain insincere or withhold the truth in order to underhandedly get what you want.

Either you need to change, or the other person simply wasn't the right match.

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posted April 10, 2019 12:43 PM            

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Wow! This is some really heavy sh**t and I'm surpriced no one is mentioning this, (or maybe they have done it but I missed it) but this is not something one turns to astrology for, this is heavy stuff that needs to be processed with the help of psychological help, therapy the whole orcestra of mental help.

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I agree with much of what you said.

@Kaixes
"And if you don't have much, then work on yourself to gain traits that are beneficial to you both."
^Can apply to actively changing your dynamics via therapy. There's nothing wrong with needing that.

It could really be good for you both to get therapy. If being together doesn't work out, at least you did get the insight.

If you end up not getting back together, getting therapy on your own of your own volition could be a good idea, too.

If you insist on not getting therapy, then self help books can help, but honestly some people cannot be great judges of their own character or the character of others, so having outside help is usually best. We get "stuck" without mediators.

posted April 10, 2019 12:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Melinn:
Wow! This is some really heavy sh**t and I'm surpriced no one is mentioning this, (or maybe they have done it but I missed it) but this is not something one turns to astrology for, this is heavy stuff that needs to be processed with the help of psychological help, therapy the whole orcestra of mental help.

Astrology helps with gaining insight about behaviour patterns, metaphores etc I get it. But trying to "apply" help via astrology in this case is like telling a cancer patient who already knows he/she has cancer "yeah, you have cancer". (Like yeah obviously, he/she knows that!) Instead of starting chemo asap.

Revenge this and revenge that, yeah we know plutonic people are extremely super suuuper sensetive towards betrayal. So how would this help in your case? Do you really need it to confirmed by astrology?

Betrayal in any shape or form or in any amount will trigger thise types in really extreme ways. Or I would say, no one normal is immune to not feel hurt by betrayal, a neptunian would feel as hurt, an uranian aswell etc but plutonians "reactions and actions" can be more, dark.

And you are talking about her "faking" her sincerity towards her father. Ok but are you guys therapists or pro psychologists? You have no idea what she is feeling or her complex ways of acting out her trauma. Even if SHE says she was/is faking it, it does not have to be just that. Its super complex things we are talking about here, its not black or white. She obviously have a lot of unprocessed things about her father, and to me it sounds like she still loves his father but at the same time can not forgive him for the trauma he caused her and her mother. BUT I'm no expert.

I just know one can be super upset with ones parents and HATE some of their traits and some things they do, but at the end of the day, one still has that parent/child connection and bond whether one likes it or not!

She may not be aware but if she really hated him, she would have cut him from her life completely. Unless she does not rely on him for monetary support or he is rich and may leave his posessions to her, and in that case she is cold and calculating. Or she is both still loving him and still is calculating bc we are not black or white.

But we can never know what is what for her, for that we had to be pros and have had sessions with her, thats all I'm saying.

And you are talking about how she was more open and had an easier time expression herself to you etc. Some above said it was revenge. I don't believe its that simple at all. Revnge is not hurting the other, revenge is also hurting yourself at the same time and she knows it I'm sure. Its like pushing a sword into your stomach and then pressing herself into that same swords so you both are being impaled by that sword..

And yes, maybe she liked that dynamic, where she had the upper hand over you. She had power over you and that made her feel in power and control.

Only that its not how that works and I'm just speculating for again, I'm no pro and even if I were we don't have real clear picture of what is what about you guys.. but yes, maybe she felt good about that dynamic at first, where she had the upper hand and she could get some revenge.

But she may have realised that this dynamic is not working. Not being equal and always being suspucious of someone and also not be able to trust someone, that will slowly kill you inside. Also I would assume, and I'm speculating, but she may have realised, you will never be at the same level because of the "sin" you commited. You will always be locked in a dynamic where you are the "sinner" and lower then her. She will never see you as her equal. And this may be unconcious for her or concious.

Some religions state that for humans, one sin you commit will wipe out millions of good deeds you did prior to the sin. In the eyes of humans, you will be seen as a sinner. Thats how human mentality works sadly. Only god can be all forgiving and not hold that sin against you etc. And you are locked into that dynamic it seems of what you have told us here.

Also the thing that made her feel more comfy with you, I believe is that since you now were faulted and not that "perfect and pure" human being, she could relax and behave as she wished and that also ment she could be as open as she wanted to be with her feelings etc without the fear of you leaving her, (because hello, you are the sinner and you can never leave, you have to repent, for ever). For some this may actually deepen the bond! For others it will be toxic like nothing else.

Also how many of us do not hold back more or less, our true selves our manners, feelings etc because we fear the guy will leave?

If you had a healthy dynamic from the beginning, she may have been more delicate with how she behaved. But since you were the "damaged goods" she could act with no care at all about how she was percieved because in her mind, you will always ALWAYS be the worse of you two.

AND thats your dynamic in a nut shell.
AGAIN just speculating, because, again, I'm not a therapist.

I would not say this is a lost cause. But she may never ever forgive you. You will always be locked into sinner vs punisher dynamic.

What this needs is therapy. Lots of it. And thats what you should have aimed for in the beginning before you got into this dynamic. But yeah I remember now you said this is only a 2 years relationship. I guess one then wants to "Ride the wave"? until you realise it wont get fixed by itself

She need therapy for her traumas from her childhood and the traumas you caused her.

And you need therapy and also couples therapy.

Don't think about "how do I get her back". Don't turn to astrology or pluto or whatever for thise problems, you already know the answers.

Think about how and IF you would be able to get her to get help and therapy. And this every adult here would agree upon

I really hope you both will get through this. It pains so much to read about your and her pain

(sorry for misspellings, I have no time for fixing my text)

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Lol it’s funny that you mention psychology. I am actually a graduating medical student who will be starting residency in a few months with a lot of experience working with psychiatric patients (spent a good 3-4 months rotating in the subject), and she graduated majoring psychology. She’s given up on that to go into the law though. (Probably to sue me)

I definitely did look into things from the mental health perspective, that’s why I was quick to read up on the subject of rebound relationships and how she reacted. I’ve just spent the past few days reading up on her astrology trying to understand what she might be going through at the moment given our breakup after an arduous and intense 3 year relationship, and I think astrology provided me with that kind of perspective. It’s disheartening to find out that she’ll likely never let go, but I love her and I want to be with her even if she hates me forever for it. As long as she’s committed and willing to work together on it, I won’t falter like I did before.

She and I mentioned therapy a lot but we were long distance during the last 6-8 months so it never came to fruition. I regret that now, I wish I could’ve at least received help for myself to try to gain the perspective that I have now. If and when I do make my case for her, I’m definitely going to push for it.

posted April 10, 2019 02:00 PM            

speaking from personal experience i actually don't feel much of anything towards my parents (particularly my father) which is why i'm inclined to believe someone who says they fake it, because i have

just throwing that out there

you can not hate someone, you can be civil and go through the motions of a family relationship and have it all just be ******** or on a darker note have it all be masked resentment etc that's a reality too

sometimes things really are just what people say, and the complexities can be simplified and boiled down to something that isn't a real connection and sort of an obligation the way sticking to a work schedule can be

it really is possible to feel next to nothing towards a parent, and that's not necessarily cold it just is

@Kaixes

good luck however it works out

posted April 11, 2019 08:00 AM            

As others have said, her revengeful spite isn't just targeted at you but also against her father whom she has been nursing a grudge all these years. The betrayal of trust is very very hard to get over for anyone especially you're digging up her old wounds.

You may have thought that by accepting your punishment it would satisfy her wrath and she'd get over, but it doesn't work this way. It probably encouraged her to continue punishing you (and psychologically, her father as well)... and even till now (weeks after you've broken up) she's still "punishing" you. It shows that she's not over it yet.

Usually the more you react to an outburst, the more you'll get it. Think of a crying child... the more you try to soothe or reason with them, the more they cry. But once you stop trying to make them stop crying, they stop.

So I feel that she'll continue doing it to you as long as you're still reacting. But if you ignore her, she won't be able to keep it up for too long... and if that's a rebound relationship she's in now, it won't last long anyway.

You may feel that you're being tolerant...forgiving.. etc (typical of Pisces Venus), but you don't realise that you're also feeding her rampage. This isn't doing her or you any favour and this relationship will just end in ultimate destruction.

She needs to stop thinking about punishing you before she can start thinking about whether she still loves you and wants to be with you, and for this to happen, you need to leave her alone for the time being because clearly the poison is not out of her system yet. Six weeks is a short time compared to 3yrs relationship.

She needs time to detox and so do you. I suggest do that for now and revisit this when she has really calm down and you're also in a better shape to handle this. Whether or not she still wants to be with you by then is another matter, but that's a risk you need to take.

posted April 12, 2019 01:10 AM            

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Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Pisces Venus can have issues with boundaries and here you have exploded the negative manifestation due to guilt.

As others have said, her revengeful spite isn't just targeted at you but also against her father whom she has been nursing a grudge all these years. The betrayal of trust is very very hard to get over for anyone especially you're digging up her old wounds.

You may have thought that by accepting your punishment it would satisfy her wrath and she'd get over, but it doesn't work this way. It probably encouraged her to continue punishing you (and psychologically, her father as well)... and even till now (weeks after you've broken up) she's still "punishing" you. It shows that she's not over it yet.

Usually the more you react to an outburst, the more you'll get it. Think of a crying child... the more you try to soothe or reason with them, the more they cry. But once you stop trying to make them stop crying, they stop.

So I feel that she'll continue doing it to you as long as you're still reacting. But if you ignore her, she won't be able to keep it up for too long... and if that's a rebound relationship she's in now, it won't last long anyway.

You may feel that you're being tolerant...forgiving.. etc (typical of Pisces Venus), but you don't realise that you're also feeding her rampage. This isn't doing her or you any favour and this relationship will just end in ultimate destruction.

She needs to stop thinking about punishing you before she can start thinking about whether she still loves you and wants to be with you, and for this to happen, you need to leave her alone for the time being because clearly the poison is not out of her system yet. Six weeks is a short time compared to 3yrs relationship.

She needs time to detox and so do you. I suggest do that for now and revisit this when she has really calm down and you're also in a better shape to handle this. Whether or not she still wants to be with you by then is another matter, but that's a risk you need to take.

Good luck.

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Wow. I never really thought about it that way. It's true that I thought that if I showed my devotion and let her take control of things eventually she would stop and find trust in me and my commitment. It didn't occur to me that I was 'feeding' the rampage that let her feel more comfortable in punishing me further, I just thought that she was someone who was obsessed with control, no matter how absurd it was.

Eventually she relinquished a lot of the control she once had, but by then the damage had been done and I had already resented her too much to work things out maturely. The time apart since our breakup has more or less cleared my head on matters and I feel comfortable returning to her to try to resolve things, but I did consider waiting to let her emotions settle and let her reflect on the relationship.

posted April 12, 2019 05:15 AM            

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Originally posted by Kaixes:
My main question is at what point would I be waiting too long to approach her? I feel like there's a small window for us to get back together between her sorting out her feelings and her moving on from me entirely. I know that Venus in Scorpios take their time moving on from relationships, to the point where they may never move on entirely but I realize that just because she isn't over me, doesn't mean she'd be willing to give me another chance.

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It's difficult to say. My ex with Scorpio Venus went back to his ex 2yrs after they broke up even though they'd both moved on with someone else.

I think you should hit her when she stops her rampage. At least she'd be in the right frame of mind to have a mature discussion. I really can't tell you if she will come back to you because she might feel that she can't trust you anymore, but would you rather go back to the way it was - she punishing you for the rest of your lives?

posted April 12, 2019 02:59 PM            

I was caught up between their drama because after they broke up, he pursued me and we were in a relationship. I didn't know that I got trapped between two insecure a*sh*le people who played games.

He thought he had another chance with her (during this process he hurt me pretty bad) because she always said sorry to him and chatted with him calling him "daddy". They got back together on and off for 2 years behind my back only at the end of the day, he run to me crying. Later I found, she just played her revenge on him. Poor man, but he deserved it.

She also played me by lying to me about everything she said, so she could play a revenge on him. She's dangerous ("a wolf in a sheep clothing" kind of thing, not kidding, she shows other people that she is religious and happy person, talking sweet and acting shy, but I know what she did and said). She has Moon/Mercury/Venus in Scorpio conjunct Pluto. Mercury/Pluto is the tightest.

I have venus in Pisces, and I always feel stupid whenever I remember what I have been through in a relationship with him. I lose my happy smile, my friends told me.

posted April 12, 2019 05:43 PM            

If this person is not healthy in how they handle their deep/intense emotions, then steer clear because it's only throwing fire into a wood forest. Unless this person truly has gotten to know their depths of emotion, especially the painful stuff, they will be swayed under the intense angers and pain of it, and often do **** they end up regretting- which causes more of the same emotion, and the cycle continues.

It is possible however, if the person is healthy in themselves and have gotten to know these aspects of themselves and how to gracefully tread the hurricanes, for them to be open to trust again.

posted April 12, 2019 07:46 PM            

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Originally posted by Kaixes:
We both agreed to move on when we ended things. And I was fine with that, grieving for the time being and trying handle things. But I don’t know why, something just seems to be calling out to me from her. I feel like she’s hurt and she wants me to chase after her the way she always cried about me not doing in the past. And normally I would just let it be, like I did before. But I feel like I feel her pain and I just want to make amends and ask her to give me a chance to resolve our issues. We may never be the couple that we used to be, but I know I’d be happy just being with her. If she doesn’t feel the same then I’ll leave it be. But I feel like I won’t be able to move on if I don’t at least acknowledge my mistakes to her and ask her to let me try her again.

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I think that if you go after her you will fall into her 'trap', so to speak. She was very hurt by your unfaithfulness (understandably) and won't rest until she sucks you in in a never-ending vicious circle that will only stop when it can't go on anymore. You can make amends with her and show remorse for your actions without getting back with her. In fact, once some time has gone by she might even appreciate and believe in your apology more if it's purely platonic (which btw can help her in her healing process).

posted April 12, 2019 08:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Hikaru29:
It's difficult to say. My ex with Scorpio Venus went back to his ex 2yrs after they broke up even though they'd both moved on with someone else.

I think you should hit her when she stops her rampage. At least she'd be in the right frame of mind to have a mature discussion. I really can't tell you if she will come back to you because she might feel that she can't trust you anymore, but would you rather go back to the way it was - she punishing you for the rest of your lives?

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posted April 12, 2019 08:28 PM            

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Originally posted by hearttreasure:
My husband ex is a Venus in Scorpio.

I was caught up between their drama because after they broke up, he pursued me and we were in a relationship. I didn't know that I got trapped between two insecure a*sh*le people who played games.

He thought he had another chance with her (during this process he hurt me pretty bad) because she always said sorry to him and chatted with him calling him "daddy". They got back together on and off for 2 years behind my back only at the end of the day, he run to me crying. Later I found, she just played her revenge on him. Poor man, but he deserved it.

She also played me by lying to me about everything she said, so she could play a revenge on him. She's dangerous ("a wolf in a sheep clothing" kind of thing, not kidding, she shows other people that she is religious and happy person, talking sweet and acting shy, but I know what she did and said). She has Moon/Mercury/Venus in Scorpio conjunct Pluto. Mercury/Pluto is the tightest.

I have venus in Pisces, and I always feel stupid whenever I remember what I have been through in a relationship with him. I lose my happy smile, my friends told me.

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posted April 13, 2019 12:54 AM            

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Originally posted by Kaixes:
This is what scares me. I wonder if it's also because I'm Venus in Pisces but I'm terrified that even if and after I've moved on, I'll constantly be looking back on this relationship and regret how much I invested for her only to finally be beaten down and let her have the last laugh on me.

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It happens to my husband, 5 years of our relationship, he told me he wished he had met me long before he started any relationship with other women (which I guess he talked about his Scorpio Venus ex because I know how much he invested on that relationship). He told me while crying. I cried too, but because I felt stupid and now I have forever scars from two egocentric human being who only cares about their own feelings. I also feel like I have wasted my time only to get scars and dealing with stupid emotional disaster.

His parents are a Pisces Venus-Aries sun (Father) and Scorpio Venus (Mother) couple. They have unhealthy relationship, abusive relationship. They don't separate because of proud/afraid of shame. My husband told me, there are two heads in his home, which mean, there are two separate life in one's roof. His Father now has a long time sickness, hardly walking, and his Mother acts like she doesn't know how to nurture his Father a.k.a she acts indifferent (I think it's her revenge opportunity), so it is my husband's job to look after him. Sad to see. You can obviously see that his Mother keep some hate feelings towards his Father. She also influences their children to see that his Father is a horrible person. Imagine that life time torture.

posted April 13, 2019 03:51 AM            

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Originally posted by Kaixes:
This is true. 6 weeks after the breakup and it wasn't as if she reached out to say that she missed me or wanted to work it out again. She had to upload a picture of her with another guy to rile me and sadly it worked. I guess even if I'm in a state of mind where I think I can be better for, she definitely isn't and she won't be better for me.

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I don't have Scorpio in my chart or Venus-Pluto aspect but I can understand how your ex feels... all those revengeful feelings..keep reminding that person of his past infidelity...etc because I feel it too (although I won't keep it up torturing someone for 2yrs). I don't have that patience or endurance.

posted April 13, 2019 05:49 PM            

Anyway, we need to stop making this all about her. The issue is NOT her, the issue is YOU. What is it in YOUR psyche that keeps you hooked to all this drama? You are going into psychiatry, so it is a safe bet you are attracted to mental illness of some sort. Is Pluto making hard aspects to your Venus, sun or Moon natally or by transit?

I am sorry to say this, but your ex sound mentally unbalanced. If you want to devote your life to mental illness, it is relatively safe to do it through work, but doing it through personal relationship can be harrowing, even a Pisces Venus will eventually crumble.