posted April 09, 2019 06:58 PM            

Some background information: at the start of the relationship I was not particularly into her and cheated on her. I eventually did fall head over heels for her and felt awful but I was selfish and hid this from her because I believed she would leave me. She would find out later and she was devastated by the ordeal but she did not end things. She took a break for a couple weeks and hooked up with another guy, coming back to me the next day saying that she made a mistake. Over the next two years she became very emotionally unstable: refusing to be intimate, asking for hours on end daily about the other woman, becoming physically violent, causing dissonance with my friends and family, and taking more control of my life than I’m willing to admit. It was painful but I stuck it out because I knew it would take time and I loved her deeply. Eventually however I got tired of answering the questions, I got tired of feeling like I was no longer a priority to her, tired of feeling unloved and uncared for despite all the compromises I put on my life at her demand. I was pushed to the point of nearly losing my career, and lost a lot of my friends in the process. After failing to break up with her dozens of time because she convinced me that she would get better eventually, she finally admitted that the cheating was something she would likely never move on from. We agreed to end things but before we did she told me to “contact her again if I ever regretted this”. I fully believe she would’ve stayed with me despite both of us being unhappy, in fact I know it.

Fast forward 6 weeks of grief, very minimal contact, and contemplating a return, I find out that she’s currently in a serious relationship with some guy. Besides the fact that I’m hurt over how suddenly invalidated our relationship feels, especially given how she said she would take a long time before new relationships, she’s acting in ways that are completely out of character. She’s so suddenly public with this man, and there’s a public photo they took that heavily implies it was taken after sex. Also this photo was uploaded on my birthday of all days. She’s never been like this in any previous relationship which were longer than this current one(she’s had three short term that she ended before me), including our own.

At this point I’ve reflected a lot about how I was throughout and would very much like to try again after I feel more comfortable with facing her as a better me. I appreciate people telling me to move on from a toxic person but you can’t help who you fall in love with, and I truly do want her back. I intend to improve and heal myself, before reaching out in a few months to let her know that I’m still in love and would like to revisit things. Once I have confirmation from her that there is no chance, I’ll start to truly move on with my life. I still have questions however:

At first I concluded that she was rebounding, given the ridiculous timing and how publicly obscene she was, and things between them would inevitably end, but I want some more insight. How are Venus in scorpios with rebound relationships? I’m of the understanding that they take their time to fall in love with someone but given how hard it must have been for her with the breakup, is it possible that the joy of having her needs met immediately can become genuine love to her? Could she actually be in love with this new man who she just met or is she just trying to move on from me in a really shortsighted manner? Is she maybe taunting me to fight for her? (something she complained about a lot towards the end of our relationship) Is it beneath someone like her to fake a relationship? Despite being so publicly celebrated with her, this new guy isn’t followed by any of her friends nor has his picture been liked by any of them. It’s also been confirmed that this is a long distance relationship and she most likely only knew the guy for a month AT MOST before being in a relationship with him.

posted April 09, 2019 07:30 PM            

i've been with a venus in scorpio (conjunct pluto too, exact, with a scorpio mercury too far away to be conjunct to all that thankfully) for 14 years and honestly she seems to love spite and it's never just that one thing that happened it's everything i've ever done and everything i "made" her do because her mistakes when she acts out of spite are my fault too

it's a good time

if she loved you then you could probably get her back though honestly, but that doesn't mean it'll be easy or that even having her back will be easy either

they're intense to say the least

edit: btw the grudge thing lasts forever, her and i were close friends for 4 years before we got together (we've known each other since we were about 12 got close at 14 started dating at 18) and i still hear about **** i did then

on an intellectual level she knows im not responsible for her actions but when she's emotional which is nearly always well... fun ****

posted April 09, 2019 08:05 PM            

Whether that's a good or bad thing, that's up for debate.

I think that what happened was you caused her pain, so she wanted to do the same to you. Sometimes they'll even be in relationships out of spite and revenge. You were being punished that whole time.
Whether she's conscious of it, that's another story.

A male Scorpio stellium friend of mine told me he wanted to get back with his ex girlfriend (again) who cheated on him, just to punish and spite her. He even described how he'd destroy her and her life. He wanted her to feel as horribly awful inside as out and as deeply and as intensely as he felt for as long as he felt it.
And whoa boy, Scorpio's can feel intensely, for a very very very long time.

The Scorp revenge ride stops when you want it to (inside and out.)

Scorpio, and 8th house, is sex, death, rebirth, and taxes. They will
"collect" their pound of flesh.

posted April 09, 2019 08:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
he's probably a rebound that she's infatuated with because things feel new and also she's probably spiting you for what you did 3 years ago and for breaking up with her and for every other mistake you've made and for all the things she did that she didn't like that are also your fault

i've been with a venus in scorpio (conjunct pluto too, exact, with a scorpio mercury too far away to be conjunct to all that thankfully) for 14 years and honestly she seems to love spite and it's never just that one thing that happened it's everything i've ever done and everything i "made" her do because her mistakes when she acts out of spite are my fault too

it's a good time

if she loved you then you could probably get her back though honestly, but that doesn't mean it'll be easy or that even having her back will be easy either

they're intense to say the least

edit: btw the grudge thing lasts forever, her and i were close friends for 4 years before we got together (we've known each other since we were about 12 got close at 14 started dating at 18) and i still hear about **** i did then

on an intellectual level she knows im not responsible for her actions but when she's emotional which is nearly always well... fun ****

---

Thanks. It's true that the grudges never go with these ones. I paid the price so much these past two years, but she would only acknowledge how she treated me during my attempts at breaking up with her. I think she's fully aware of how she's messed around with my life, but she just had no sympathy for any of it and would rationalize why none of it was her responsibility.

posted April 09, 2019 09:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
What it all sounds like to me is she's on a vengeance roll.

Whether that's a good or bad thing, that's up for debate.

I think that what happened was you caused her pain, so she wanted to do the same to you. Sometimes they'll even be in relationships out of spite and revenge. You were being punished that whole time.
Whether she's conscious of it, that's another story.

A male Scorpio stellium friend of mine told me he wanted to get back with his ex girlfriend (again) who cheated on him, just to punish and spite her. He even described how he'd destroy her and her life. He wanted her to feel as horribly awful inside as out and as deeply and as intensely as he felt for as long as he felt it.
And whoa boy, Scorpio's can feel intensely, for a very very very long time.

The Scorp revenge ride stops when you want it to (inside and out.)

Scorpio, and 8th house, is sex, death, rebirth, and taxes. They will
"collect" their pound of flesh.

Add: sorry, forgot to mention. I think her being open to having you back may also be a revenge plan. I'd be cautious.

---

posted April 09, 2019 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaixes:
Thanks. It's true that the grudges never go with these ones. I paid the price so much these past two years, but she would only acknowledge how she treated me during my attempts at breaking up with her. I think she's fully aware of how she's messed around with my life, but she just had no sympathy for any of it and would rationalize why none of it was her responsibility.

Given that she's rebounding, do you think I should wait until she's done that guy? Or should I approach her sooner to throw it all for a loop?

---

well it's like i said grudge forever and what they do is your fault, and the worse it is the more mad they are at you over it because they'll hurt themselves with it

it's complicated really, all their feelings i mean, and yeah don't expect sympathy for a long time though the vengeance streak can end in my experience and apologies can happen without break up talk being a thing so can behavior changes

they don't stop being scorpio heavy, but progress can be made and things can improve for long stretches of time and there can be a lot of growth and opportunities for really heavy communication

it isn't an easy thing though, and it's entirely dependent on how they feel towards you in the first place

if i were you and i wanted her i'd just go for it now in all honesty, and really probably the second i felt like i wanted to which i imagine was sooner than now without hesitation and i'd see it like the other guy was irrelevant because i can be a ****** person like that

that being said Lalafortunaea might be completely right and the idea of you getting back with her or the hope of it or whatever could be part of a revenge thing too and wouldn't be surprising so i'd be careful

scorpio heavy people are capable of extremely deep love, and if that's there for you it doesn't disappear, but all of their emotions are that deep and that's why they act to such extremes

posted April 09, 2019 11:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
well it's like i said grudge forever and what they do is your fault, and the worse it is the more mad they are at you over it because they'll hurt themselves with it

it's complicated really, all their feelings i mean, and yeah don't expect sympathy for a long time though the vengeance streak can end in my experience and apologies can happen without break up talk being a thing so can behavior changes

they don't stop being scorpio heavy, but progress can be made and things can improve for long stretches of time and there can be a lot of growth and opportunities for really heavy communication

it isn't an easy thing though, and it's entirely dependent on how they feel towards you in the first place

if i were you and i wanted her i'd just go for it now in all honesty, and really probably the second i felt like i wanted to which i imagine was sooner than now without hesitation and i'd see it like the other guy was irrelevant because i can be a ****** person like that

that being said Lalafortunaea might be completely right and the idea of you getting back with her or the hope of it or whatever could be part of a revenge thing too and wouldn't be surprising so i'd be careful

scorpio heavy people are capable of extremely deep love, and if that's there for you it doesn't disappear, but all of their emotions are that deep and that's why they act to such extremes

still if you're determined to try why wait?

---

I guess the logic in my mind is that she's still caught up in her new relationship. She might genuinely think that she's happy and unaware that she's rebounding. On top of that she's trying to spite me in the process. I feel like if I approached her now not only would she think she's moved on and laugh me off, but she'd believe I'm just acting out of my own storm of emotions.

I feel like if I give it some more time, she's going to naturally rush through her current relationship like she is at the moment. And eventually she'll either realize that the relationship she thought she had is far more hollow and start to reflect on what we had, or she'll grow obsessive and paranoid over her new boyfriend. After all, he's on the other side of the world and given that the foundation of their relationship is probably sex, it's not unlike her to think that she's being cheated on. (She's ended two long distance relationships within months after starting them)

Meanwhile I've taken my time to grieve and reflect, and as much as I think I've learned now (I've realized a lot of mistakes I wasn't aware of a few months ago), more time can only help my process. I think she'd feel more inclined to believe that I'm not doing this out of some whirlwind passion that will die as soon she starts being difficult.

posted April 09, 2019 11:13 PM            

You want her back? It means you have yet to reach rock bottom yet She will take you there.

You call what you have love. Some of us would beg to differ. having been there... But it's your life.

posted April 10, 2019 12:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
She is doing all this on purpose, dear. That is a typical Scorpionic move, plastering her new beau for all the world (and YOU) to see, implying they are having sex, and her little sly BDay present to you. She is purposely sticking daggers into you.

You want her back? It means you have yet to reach rock bottom yet She will take you there.

You call what you have love. Some of us would beg to differ. having been there... But it's your life.

---

posted April 10, 2019 05:43 AM            

My thinking is that you consider this a lesson learned and count your losses . As I believe you killed your chances for anything healthy between you two by concealing the infidelity to a point where she found out.

The problem is that when she found out about the dishonesty, she probably wondered which parts of your relationship were true(and which were not)?

And this "wondering" probably drove her to asking about the other woman incessantly, building distance between you two and refusing to be intimate. She was imo just emotionally "stuck".

What aspects does she have to her Venus? She may have tried to forgive but found it difficult to open up to you again. And that does not mean she didn't love you. But love for you was not enough to eclipse the rage i.e notice how she became the devil incarnate to everyone around you and almost destroyed your life.

So my question is, was she like this before finding out? I don't doubt you love her.But I also think that there is underestimation(on your side) on how she demonstrated her rage for what you did.

You simply will not even consider it and still want her back (despite the fact that your family and friends say "no"). They are not saying that you shouldn't love her. But that doesn't mean being with her. So I wonder what aspects does Venus have in your chart?

If her Venus aspects Pluto or she has Pluto on the Moon,Sun or angles. Leave her and just call her "the one that got away". Coz Pluto nemory lingers on indefinitely when it comes to sexual betrayal.

Some Scorpios don't forgive their Mothers for missing their dance concert when they were 8 years of age. This despite being adults today and knowing that their parents were not exemplary people who couldn't help but disappoint them because they(parents) are also wounded.

posted April 10, 2019 06:38 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Belage:
She is doing all this on purpose, dear. That is a typical Scorpionic move, plastering her new beau for all the world (and YOU) to see, implying they are having sex, and her little sly BDay present to you. She is purposely sticking daggers into you.

You want her back? It means you have yet to reach rock bottom yet She will take you there.

You call what you have love. Some of us would beg to differ. having been there... But it's your life.

---

Love this.

posted April 10, 2019 07:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaixes:

Meanwhile I've taken my time to grieve and reflect, and as much as I think I've learned now (I've realized a lot of mistakes I wasn't aware of a few months ago), more time can only help my process. I think she'd feel more inclined to believe that I'm not doing this out of some whirlwind passion that will die as soon she starts being difficult.

The only thing that worries me is how long until she actually moves on from me? I can't imagine this rebound going on for long, but on the off-chance it does I basically screw myself. I've read from other Venus in Scorpios that they never get over someone that they truly loved, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll take them back. I feel like there's only a small window where I can reach out and expect that she'll take me back with few questions asked.

---

you either want her or you don't waiting won't do you any favors with a scorpio venus, and if she actually has feelings for you then she's not going to laugh about it and she wants you to act out of a storm of your emotions anyway

besides that it's a lot of waiting on what-ifs that really don't make a difference ultimately

i can only tell you what i'd do and like i said my fiancee has a scorpio stellium and scorpio venus/pluto exact and i've dealt with the scorpio **** for almost 20 years even as her friend, and it wouldn't be sit around waiting or banking on someone else getting themselves out of the picture

everything you don't say is something he can, and even if it doesnt work with him there's other people

no **** it's not unlike her to think she's being cheated on though, she trusted you and you cheated on her and lied about it so of course she's going to have issues surrounding that kind of **** scorpio venus can be insecure to begin with without added reasons from elsewhere and cheating causes damage even when someone has absolutely nothing in scorpio

you're expecting her to reflect without you doing anything to make her care about reflecting and that's not going to happen in a way that works in your favor

nothing wrong with a whirlwind of passion at any rate, and if you're going to come at it half assed no reason to bother if you want me to be real

you know all the reasons to not be with her so i won't get into those, if you want to keep sticking your hand in a fire though you have to be all in it

as for how long until she moved on from you it depends on how she felt about you before things went to **** and whether or not things going to **** was her staying to love you or her staying to see if she could make you love her while she acted out and gain power over you

there's a fine line with scorpio placements, but she knows the difference

as far as them not getting over love when it's been real, considering they don't get over anything i'm sure that's true (which is why it matters whether or not she truly loved you) and that's good **** too

they dont forget it if you make them feel loved and so on

like i said the vengeance **** chills out they can apologize and admit to it etc and so on in their scorpio way, which leaves x amount of room for it still being your fault but still... which is why i'm not sure how yours felt because 2 years of that much **** followed by more vengeance with a refusal to be intimate

my fiancee and i broke up once for about a week, we still ended up having sex during that, multiple times, she was still telling me she loved me and wanted me in her life etc (she broke up with me, it was complicated had to do with heroin, i've never cheated on her) refusing intimacy is a scorpio thing but it's more like they're mad that day so you dont get laid typically

and they do ease up and try to make you happy etc in my experience, a scorpio venus can be loving with just as much intensity as they can be hateful but if there's no balance what you have is something else between you

consider everything if you're going to take your time, but like i said i wouldn't if you want someone you do everything you can to get them and if you're unwilling then you let them go, especially a scorpio venus because honestly she wants someone who would do that for her

edit: if you want her back you need to reach deep, pull out part of your soul, and give it to her

also like Aries23Degrees mentioned, she's tried to ruin your life to a point that goes beyond what's normal in my experience

because even when things are horrible and they're actively being spiteful (and in my experience they can be spiteful and petty towards everyone so when they love you it doesnt change that side of them, if anything you can get it somewhat worse because they have expectations of you) there's usually still ways where they'll express themselves in a manner that isn't destructive where they'll still do things that are nice and try to maintain openness with you and so on

if they're trying to destroy you completely in every way there's more damage there than you can likely bounce back from

i've been through the vengeance **** , and it was pure **** , but even during it there were plenty of points where she would try to better things between us or do things for me that i needed

there was a point at the peak of it where i was beyond sick drunk and she canceled plans with other people to spend the night taking care of me, and when i needed **** she was there for me most of the time

posted April 10, 2019 07:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
My only question for you is: Was she "dramatic" and "destructive" to you BEFORE she found out about the infidelity?

My thinking is that you consider this a lesson learned and count your losses . As I believe you killed your chances for anything healthy between you two by concealing the infidelity to a point where she found out.

The problem is that when she found out about the dishonesty, she probably wondered which parts of your relationship were true(and which were not)?

And this "wondering" probably drove her to asking about the other woman incessantly, building distance between you two and refusing to be intimate. She was imo just emotionally "stuck".

What aspects does she have to her Venus? She may have tried to forgive but found it difficult to open up to you again. And that does not mean she didn't love you. But love for you was not enough to eclipse the rage i.e notice how she became the devil incarnate to everyone around you and almost destroyed your life.

So my question is, was she like this before finding out? I don't doubt you love her.But I also think that there is underestimation(on your side) on how she demonstrated her rage for what you did.

You simply will not even consider it and still want her back (despite the fact that your family and friends say "no"). They are not saying that you shouldn't love her. But that doesn't mean being with her. So I wonder what aspects does Venus have in your chart?

If her Venus aspects Pluto or she has Pluto on the Moon,Sun or angles. Leave her and just call her "the one that got away". Coz Pluto nemory lingers on indefinitely when it comes to sexual betrayal.

Some Scorpios don't forgive their Mothers for missing their dance concert when they were 8 years of age. This despite being adults today and knowing that their parents were not exemplary people who couldn't help but disappoint them because they(parents) are also wounded.

Think very hard and long. Scorpio does not forget an emotional injury(and this coming from a Scorpio Venus)

---

She was not dramatic and destructive prior to finding out, with me specifically. Though when she did start falling for me, she began to grow increasingly paranoid (ie. going through my messages and documents for any hints to confirm her suspicions) I've heard stories from her and her mother about how she she's acted outed against her parents. Her father cheated on her mother and she has, according to her, faked her closeness to him ever since.

To be honest, she actually became a lot more open towards me after she found out. She always withheld herself during arguments, she wouldn't call me out on a lot of things that bothered her. After finding out, she yelled at me a lot more about everything, not just about the cheating. Imperfect things about my character or habits, things that even she was guilty of doing, she had no problem or hesitation tearing me apart for them. Physically open though? That died entirely over a year before we ended things. Even though we lost a lot, she genuinely believed that she felt a lot closer to me after finding out.

I'm not too familiar with reading charts but according to mine: my Venus has aspects in Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Her Venus has one aspect in Pluto.

I do want to add one thing though. During the last few months of the relationship I made it a point with her to stop bringing up the other woman or I would permanently end things with her. And surprisingly, she never did again. I think it hurt her a lot, but she actually more or less abided to that and we never fought about that topic again. Now other things yes, we still fought a lot. But she even took steps to stop calling me as often as to not risking getting into another spat. If I went back now though, I'd be fully prepared to answer all her questions and I intend to make that clear to her. It's her right to know, I shouldn't let my fear of conflict take that away from her.

posted April 10, 2019 07:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
you either want her or you don't waiting won't do you any favors with a scorpio venus, and if she actually has feelings for you then she's not going to laugh about it and she wants you to act out of a storm of your emotions anyway

besides that it's a lot of waiting on what-ifs that really don't make a difference ultimately

i can only tell you what i'd do and like i said my fiancee has a scorpio stellium and scorpio venus/pluto exact and i've dealt with the scorpio **** for almost 20 years even as her friend, and it wouldn't be sit around waiting or banking on someone else getting themselves out of the picture

everything you don't say is something he can, and even if it doesnt work with him there's other people

no **** it's not unlike her to think she's being cheated on though, she trusted you and you cheated on her and lied about it so of course she's going to have issues surrounding that kind of **** scorpio venus can be insecure to begin with without added reasons from elsewhere and cheating causes damage even when someone has absolutely nothing in scorpio

you're expecting her to reflect without you doing anything to make her care about reflecting and that's not going to happen in a way that works in your favor

nothing wrong with a whirlwind of passion at any rate, and if you're going to come at it half assed no reason to bother if you want me to be real

you know all the reasons to not be with her so i won't get into those, if you want to keep sticking your hand in a fire though you have to be all in it

as for how long until she moved on from you it depends on how she felt about you before things went to **** and whether or not things going to **** was her staying to love you or her staying to see if she could make you love her while she acted out and gain power over you

there's a fine line with scorpio placements, but she knows the difference

as far as them not getting over love when it's been real, considering they don't get over anything i'm sure that's true (which is why it matters whether or not she truly loved you) and that's good **** too

they dont forget it if you make them feel loved and so on

like i said the vengeance **** chills out they can apologize and admit to it etc and so on in their scorpio way, which leaves x amount of room for it still being your fault but still... which is why i'm not sure how yours felt because 2 years of that much **** followed by more vengeance with a refusal to be intimate

my fiancee and i broke up once for about a week, we still ended up having sex during that, multiple times, she was still telling me she loved me and wanted me in her life etc (she broke up with me, it was complicated had to do with heroin, i've never cheated on her) refusing intimacy is a scorpio thing but it's more like they're mad that day so you dont get laid typically

and they do ease up and try to make you happy etc in my experience, a scorpio venus can be loving with just as much intensity as they can be hateful but if there's no balance what you have is something else between you

consider everything if you're going to take your time, but like i said i wouldn't if you want someone you do everything you can to get them and if you're unwilling then you let them go, especially a scorpio venus because honestly she wants someone who would do that for her

edit: if you want her back you need to reach deep, pull out part of your soul, and give it to her

also like Aries23Degrees mentioned, she's tried to ruin your life to a point that goes beyond what's normal in my experience

because even when things are horrible and they're actively being spiteful (and in my experience they can be spiteful and petty towards everyone so when they love you it doesnt change that side of them, if anything you can get it somewhat worse because they have expectations of you) there's usually still ways where they'll express themselves in a manner that isn't destructive where they'll still do things that are nice and try to maintain openness with you and so on

if they're trying to destroy you completely in every way there's more damage there than you can likely bounce back from

i've been through the vengeance **** , and it was pure **** , but even during it there were plenty of points where she would try to better things between us or do things for me that i needed

there was a point at the peak of it where i was beyond sick drunk and she canceled plans with other people to spend the night taking care of me, and when i needed **** she was there for me most of the time

so if she's straight up out to destroy you i'd really consider what her intentions might be there's lashing out and then there's breaking you down until there's nothing left

---

posted April 10, 2019 09:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaixes:
I wouldn't be against doing it much sooner than I originally planned. How do you think I should approach it? I was thinking about sending her a text and if she declines to speak to me about it, then I'd fly down to her home and ask her in person. Or is that too much? It just feels to me like if she's wrapped up in the passion of a new romance, she wouldn't even consider coming back to me.

---

honestly, after reading what you said to Aries23Degrees i really don't think you should proceed at all, because this is all just revenge based on everything you said

it's not temporary spite or lashing out or anything like that it's something else entirely

here's how i know

she wasn't dramatic or destructive before she found out, in my experience venus in scorpio especially with a pluto aspect is dramatic and can be destructive before anything negative even happens out of fear but in that all they still try to build because they're completely raw and bearing their all to you, and their all frequently has that dramatic and destrutive edge to it

however, in your case it started after betrayal which means she wasn't just being open with you about every side of her but she was getting revenge

not only that but she gave you an obvious answer when she told you that she's faked her closeness to her father after he cheated on her mother, that wasn't even done to her it happened to her mother and she saw the damage it did and has a fake relationship with her father because of it

which means everything between you was fake

her not withholding during arguments after that isn't a matter of her being open with you, it's a matter of hurting you and being vengeful

yelling about everything isn't normal scorpio behavior neither is tearing into you all the time unless they're in a bad mood, being defensive is one thing and they can be defensive and ridiculous over perceived slights however that doesn't mean they tear you apart

also sexual intimacy is a big thing with venus in scorpio, especially with pluto, and sure a lot of couples say they experience things slowing down or whatever and you aren't necessarily always going to have sex multiple times a day all of the time but it should still be regular even years in (in my experience slowing down with day to day life means maybe a couple times a week and not necessarily more than once a day or maybe a solid week or 2 without, but never even a full month and when it's not full on sex there's still touching and closeness i'm talking about someone who will cuddle and hold my hand while we just sit in bed and talk daily and will touch even if it's just to tease while we're both too tired for much else)

at least that's what i've known, and again that's after 14 years and even during a break up physical intimacy didn't die, it remained a constant and was still extremely deep and special

scorpio connects with sex on a very deep level, and if sex with you isn't special to a scorpio venus then there's nothing there because that physical intimacy and connection is really important

to go over a year is honestly... your relationship was dead before the break up if i'm going to be honest with you

it didn't actually exist it was just revenge, stringing you along, and destroying you while she held power over you and she's still destroying you because she wasn't getting anything else out of it and there was nothing balancing or intimate there to show that there was love in spite of hurt feelings or her acting like a scorpio

if you have to fly down that means you'd be long distance anyway, and there's no way to properly salvage an already dead relationship

and it isn't dead because you broke up, it's dead because even while you were together it was gone

i know that sounds crazy because she was there in a sense, but she wasn't there the way venus in scorpio is when they care and i know that sounds harsh and i'm sorry to say it because i understand that you love her but she was taking her daddy issues out on you because you ****** up the way her father who has no real relationship with her ****** up and she's never actually let you in that's why she stopped having sex with you long before it was over

posted April 10, 2019 09:27 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
honestly, after reading what you said to Aries23Degrees i really don't think you should proceed at all, because this is all just revenge based on everything you said

it's not temporary spite or lashing out or anything like that it's something else entirely

here's how i know

she wasn't dramatic or destructive before she found out, in my experience venus in scorpio especially with a pluto aspect is dramatic and can be destructive before anything negative even happens out of fear but in that all they still try to build because they're completely raw and bearing their all to you, and their all frequently has that dramatic and destrutive edge to it

however, in your case it started after betrayal which means she wasn't just being open with you about every side of her but she was getting revenge

not only that but she gave you an obvious answer when she told you that she's faked her closeness to her father after he cheated on her mother, that wasn't even done to her it happened to her mother and she saw the damage it did and has a fake relationship with her father because of it

which means everything between you was fake

her not withholding during arguments after that isn't a matter of her being open with you, it's a matter of hurting you and being vengeful

yelling about everything isn't normal scorpio behavior neither is tearing into you all the time unless they're in a bad mood, being defensive is one thing and they can be defensive and ridiculous over perceived slights however that doesn't mean they tear you apart

also sexual intimacy is a big thing with venus in scorpio, especially with pluto, and sure a lot of couples say they experience things slowing down or whatever and you aren't necessarily always going to have sex multiple times a day all of the time but it should still be regular even years in (in my experience slowing down with day to day life means maybe a couple times a week and not necessarily more than once a day or maybe a solid week or 2 without, but never even a full month and when it's not full on sex there's still touching and closeness i'm talking about someone who will cuddle and hold my hand while we just sit in bed and talk daily and will touch even if it's just to tease while we're both too tired for much else)

at least that's what i've known, and again that's after 14 years and even during a break up physical intimacy didn't die, it remained a constant and was still extremely deep and special

scorpio connects with sex on a very deep level, and if sex with you isn't special to a scorpio venus then there's nothing there because that physical intimacy and connection is really important

to go over a year is honestly... your relationship was dead before the break up if i'm going to be honest with you

it didn't actually exist it was just revenge, stringing you along, and destroying you while she held power over you and she's still destroying you because she wasn't getting anything else out of it and there was nothing balancing or intimate there to show that there was love in spite of hurt feelings or her acting like a scorpio

if you have to fly down that means you'd be long distance anyway, and there's no way to properly salvage an already dead relationship

and it isn't dead because you broke up, it's dead because even while you were together it was gone

i know that sounds crazy because she was there in a sense, but she wasn't there the way venus in scorpio is when they care and i know that sounds harsh and i'm sorry to say it because i understand that you love her but she was taking her daddy issues out on you because you ****** up the way her father who has no real relationship with her ****** up and she's never actually let you in that's why she stopped having sex with you long before it was over

---

It’s not that I don’t hear your point, but I guess it just feels too off to me to just think it was purely revenge. What was even the point to keep it going for as long as it did? There are too many instances where she asked me if I was on the verge of ending things with her because she felt that insecure. There are even breakups I can recount where she was on her knees begging me to stay with her, which just doesn’t make sense to me at all. She would be begging for me to stay with her because she’s that desperate to keep hurting me when she’s already hurt me this much?

Why would she stop bringing up the other woman and avoid trying to argue with me if she was only out to get back at me? Why would she still stay after I started putting my foot down and taking back my rights?

I could understand doing this for months, maybe up to a year. But for an additional two years after she found out? It just doesn’t click with me.

posted April 10, 2019 09:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaixes:
It’s not that I don’t hear your point, but I guess it just feels too off to me to just think it was purely revenge. What was even the point to keep it going for as long as it did? There are too many instances where she asked me if I was on the verge of ending things with her because she felt that insecure. There are even breakups I can recount where she was on her knees begging me to stay with her, which just doesn’t make sense to me at all. She would be begging for me to stay with her because she’s that desperate to keep hurting me when she’s already hurt me this much?

Why would she stop bringing up the other woman and avoid trying to argue with me if she was only out to get back at me? Why would she still stay after I started putting my foot down and taking back my rights?

I could understand doing this for months, maybe up to a year. But for an additional two years after she found out? It just doesn’t click with me.

And I should clarify. She’s on good terms with her father in that she sees him as a father. I think she does love him, but she doesn’t respect him.

---

do you think she respects you? on any level? being real here you ****** up the way her father did, and she told you straight up the good sides of their relationship aren't real

seeing someone as a father doesn't mean you have an actually good relationship with them as your father, there's a difference there

also if someone would fake that for years with their parent what makes you think she wasn't faking things with you? someone who brought her childhood pain she experienced through her mother and towards her father right to her and put her through it, something she clearly feared and was deeply distressed by

in the time that she begged and did some things to your liking she also destroyed your relationships with other people, withheld any kind of intimacy with you, and almost cost you your job

she didn't want you to be the one to leave her obviously, it's not winning for her if you break up with her she just might not have been done with you and understood where she had to give in

destroying someone thoroughly is you walking away from them and if they walk away from you well obviously you make a show of the next guy and spite them on their birthday right?

being real, sex is deeply important to scorpios and if she was withholding for that long and there was no intimacy you did not have a relationship

i think you're underestimating the lengths scorpio and pluto go when they've been hurt, and i think you're also not understanding how deep sex with them can be when it goes beyond just the physical act of sex

they don't withhold that kind of deep connection, because that's part of the experience of love for them and it's not just a physical thing

sex can be a deeply spiritual experience and when it's that between them and you that's where actual love comes in, and if that's not happening but they're torturing you then you're not actually getting the love experience

those times she cried and begged it was for control not out of love, i'm not trying to be ****** up here that's just what it sounds like

scorpios feel very deeply, and you pulled all her childhood wounds out and betrayed her, a scorpio will drag themselves down into hell to take you along with them if that's what it takes

if it seems extreme and excessive well that's what scorpio and pluto are

posted April 10, 2019 10:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
do you think she respects you? on any level? being real here you ****** up the way her father did, and she told you straight up the good sides of their relationship aren't real

seeing someone as a father doesn't mean you have an actually good relationship with them as your father, there's a difference there

also if someone would fake that for years with their parent what makes you think she wasn't faking things with you? someone who brought her childhood pain she experienced through her mother and towards her father right to her and put her through it, something she clearly feared and was deeply distressed by

in the time that she begged and did some things to your liking she also destroyed your relationships with other people, withheld any kind of intimacy with you, and almost cost you your job

she didn't want you to be the one to leave her obviously, it's not winning for her if you break up with her she just might not have been done with you and understood where she had to give in

destroying someone thoroughly is you walking away from them and if they walk away from you well obviously you make a show of the next guy and spite them on their birthday right?

being real, sex is deeply important to scorpios and if she was withholding for that long and there was no intimacy you did not have a relationship

i think you're underestimating the lengths scorpio and pluto go when they've been hurt, and i think you're also not understanding how deep sex with them can be when it goes beyond just the physical act of sex

they don't withhold that kind of deep connection, because that's part of the experience of love for them and it's not just a physical thing

sex can be a deeply spiritual experience and when it's that between them and you that's where actual love comes in, and if that's not happening but they're torturing you then you're not actually getting the love experience

those times she cried and begged it was for control not out of love, i'm not trying to be ****** up here that's just what it sounds like

scorpios feel very deeply, and you pulled all her childhood wounds out and betrayed her, a scorpio will drag themselves down into hell to take you along with them if that's what it takes

if it seems extreme and excessive well that's what scorpio and pluto are

really though over a year without intimacy should tell you something

---

There was intimacy. We were still able to hold one another at night and hold hands and whatnot. There was just no longer any sex. I asked her about it a lot and she should just didn’t feel comfortable. Towards the end of our physical relationship she started crying over not being able to deal with the images of me with someone else in her head. I think it scared her a lot. I left it as it was. I understand sex is important in any relationship, but I wasn’t willing to push her on it. Mah e if I had, we’d have been healthier about it but I did that to another Scorpio I dated in the past and it was a complete turn off for both of us.

I’ll admit this. I became a lot more passive and my self esteem took a dip. I resented her a lot for how she had treated me. Eventually I stopped holding her hand and holding her closely to me. A lot of this was because I didn’t feel like she was into me, and she would complain about this as well. I feel like I didn’t help our intimacy at all towards the end because I more or less gave up on trying to have it. I reflected a lot on things and realized I was too focused on wanting things to go back to normal and not patiently working through the things that were wrong.

Do I think she respected me? Yes. I just didn’t respect myself, maybe because I felt too guilty about cheating on her and hiding it for as long as I did.

I could’ve been more proactive about things, and that’s why the feelings that are pushing me to go back to her are ramping up. Even though I thought I had done enough for her, I more or less understand why she felt even more insecure. I was attempting to break up with her so often, I stopped trying to be more intimate with her out of my own self-pity, I became so much more passive and fights and stopped fighting in general to just avoid the conflicts, and overall my resentment showed. Yes she was vindictive in the relationship, but it more or less stopped during the last eight months of the relationship. At that point it was just us dealing with baggage and we both were unable to handle it. Me more so than her because she put me through way more than I did to her.

There are fond memories. Even though she mistreated me a lot, she always asked me to come visit her and bought my tickets to help us go through our long distance phases. We spent all our free days together and did everything together. We did love each other. I just couldn’t deal with how psychotic she was, but looking at it now I should’ve just taken my role as the adult in the relationship rather than let her unstable self try to run the show.

posted April 10, 2019 10:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by scorpiogirl:
I can't get past you cheating on her in the beginning. This obviously set the tone for the entire relationship and she was deeply hurt by it. In my opinion you should stay away from each other. Move on and let her work things out with herself because right now she seems obsessed with the cheating. Maybe contact her to apologise one final time and make sure to be clear that it's over between you two. Don't contact her again after that and move on with your life.

---

posted April 10, 2019 10:27 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kaixes:
There was intimacy. We were still able to hold one another at night and hold hands and whatnot. There was just no longer any sex. I asked her about it a lot and she should just didn’t feel comfortable. Towards the end of our physical relationship she started crying over not being able to deal with the images of me with someone else in her head. I think it scared her a lot. I left it as it was. I understand sex is important in any relationship, but I wasn’t willing to push her on it. Mah e if I had, we’d have been healthier about it but I did that to another Scorpio I dated in the past and it was a complete turn off for both of us.

I’ll admit this. I became a lot more passive and my self esteem took a dip. I resented her a lot for how she had treated me. Eventually I stopped holding her hand and holding her closely to me. A lot of this was because I didn’t feel like she was into me, and she would complain about this as well. I feel like I didn’t help our intimacy at all towards the end because I more or less gave up on trying to have it. I reflected a lot on things and realized I was too focused on wanting things to go back to normal and not patiently working through the things that were wrong.

Do I think she respected me? Yes. I just didn’t respect myself, maybe because I felt too guilty about cheating on her and hiding it for as long as I did.

I could’ve been more proactive about things, and that’s why the feelings that are pushing me to go back to her are ramping up. Even though I thought I had done enough for her, I more or less understand why she felt even more insecure. I was attempting to break up with her so often, I stopped trying to be more intimate with her out of my own self-pity, I became so much more passive and fights and stopped fighting in general to just avoid the conflicts, and overall my resentment showed. Yes she was vindictive in the relationship, but it more or less stopped during the last eight months of the relationship. At that point it was just us dealing with baggage and we both were unable to handle it.

There are fond memories. Even though she mistreated me a lot, she always asked me to come visit her and bought my tickets to help us go through long distance. We spent all our free days together and did everything together. We did love each other. I just couldn’t deal with how psychotic she was, but looking at it now I should’ve just taken my role as the adult in the relationship rather than let her unstable self try to run the show.

Thank you for your honesty. I don’t take it personally and I appreciate everyone in this thread who is trying to keep it real with me.

---

sex is a big part of intimacy, and i'm not at all saying you should've pushed the issue i'm saying the fact that it was nonexistent says a lot (why do you think she showed you how she has no problem ******* another guy on your birthday?) yes those other things count as physical intimacy (which you also withdrew) but not in the same way sex does

like i said sex is a big one with scorpios, it is with anyone but with scorpios it's deeper than you even realize (not rebound sex, not vengeance sex, not hatefucking etc those are a different kind of deep, i'm talking intimacy within a relationship sex what they define as love) if she couldn't bring herself to be intimate with you there was nothing there

being comfortable with the person you're with means a lot, especially during sex, and scorpio venus wants to be with someone who they feel deeply comfortable with during sex who makes them feel loved and special

i get that she sent you mixed messages that's what they do, but i can also tell you a scorpio heavy person can not love someone or respect them and stay with them if they're getting something out of it and they will withhold intimacy the entire time (in addition to my own relationship experience with my fiancee i was also raised by a scorpio heavy mother and her and my father have a terrible relationship she's scorpio venus, mercury, neptune, and ascendant)

you betrayed her, hurt her, and lied to her and that's foundation of what you had and she spent most of that relationship trying to get revenge and has continued to try to hurt you for it even post break up

i understand you had good times, but step back and look at the bigger picture

on top of that long distance isn't promising to begin with even strong established relationships don't do well that way; keep all that in mind and really think about it

i'm going to be real when i love someone there isn't a thing that will stand in my way (aside from their willingness) that will keep from getting them and i don't **** around and wait so i don't understand waiting if that's what you want

do i think you should? not even kind of i think it was long dead and you're beating a dead horse that has no spark of regeneration in it

with scorpio sometimes things can come back from the dead, but they need that spark and that's not there

posted April 10, 2019 10:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dumuzi:
sex is a big part of intimacy, and i'm not at all saying you should've pushed the issue i'm saying the fact that it was nonexistent says a lot (why do you think she showed you how she has no problem ******* another guy on your birthday?) yes those other things count as physical intimacy (which you also withdrew) but not in the same way sex does

like i said sex is a big one with scorpios, it is with anyone but with scorpios it's deeper than you even realize (not rebound sex, not vengeance sex, not hatefucking etc those are a different kind of deep, i'm talking intimacy within a relationship sex what they define as love) if she couldn't bring herself to be intimate with you there was nothing there

being comfortable with the person you're with means a lot, especially during sex, and scorpio venus wants to be with someone who they feel deeply comfortable with during sex who makes them feel loved and special

i get that she sent you mixed messages that's what they do, but i can also tell you a scorpio heavy person can not love someone or respect them and stay with them if they're getting something out of it and they will withhold intimacy the entire time (in addition to my own relationship experience with my fiancee i was also raised by a scorpio heavy mother and her and my father have a terrible relationship she's scorpio venus, mercury, neptune, and ascendant)

you betrayed her, hurt her, and lied to her and that's foundation of what you had and she spent most of that relationship trying to get revenge and has continued to try to hurt you for it even post break up

i understand you had good times, but step back and look at the bigger picture

on top of that long distance isn't promising to begin with even strong established relationships don't do well that way; keep all that in mind and really think about it

i'm going to be real when i love someone there isn't a thing that will stand in my way (aside from their willingness) that will keep from getting them and i don't **** around and wait so i don't understand waiting if that's what you want

do i think you should? not even kind of i think it was long dead and you're beating a dead horse that has no spark of regeneration in it

with scorpio sometimes things can come back from the dead, but they need that spark and that's not there

---

It is what it is then. I appreciate the insight and if she ends up saying no, I’ll count my blessings that she decided not to string me along and kill me again lol. If she is willing to give it another chance, then it’ll be a lot of work going forward, but I guess the last couple years has steeled me for it.

posted April 10, 2019 12:17 PM            

I personally think it's about spite with her, but if you insist, there are some things to consider.

Many want to be with someone because of selfishness, because of what they can "get", and don't think much about all they have to give and offer. Be certain you know what you have that you want to give her and share with her. And if you don't have much, then work on yourself to gain traits that are beneficial to you both.

Some advice, if you really do get back together, and she accepts, and if (hopefully) it is not simply about getting back at you on her part, then learn from your past mistakes (as mentioned in first post) and be as honest as possible. Don't beat around the bush if you're afraid she'll leave you or hate you again or not "give you what you want". With holding information, lies of omission, and even straight up lies = that's taking the choice from the other person. You, in your own way, have played power games with her in this respect.

It's hard, but make your own intentions clear to yourself and her, and work to become transparent. And again, this works best if she also wants this, not to tear you apart, but to build something.

If someone leaves you because you are sincere or honest, it is not meant to be seen as a lesson to remain insincere or withhold the truth in order to underhandedly get what you want.

posted April 10, 2019 12:24 PM            

Astrology helps with gaining insight about behaviour patterns, metaphores etc I get it. But trying to "apply" help via astrology in this case is like telling a cancer patient who already knows he/she has cancer "yeah, you have cancer". (Like yeah obviously, he/she knows that!) Instead of starting chemo asap.

Revenge this and revenge that, yeah we know plutonic people are extremely super suuuper sensetive towards betrayal. So how would this help in your case? Do you really need it to confirmed by astrology?

Betrayal in any shape or form or in any amount will trigger thise types in really extreme ways. Or I would say, no one normal is immune to not feel hurt by betrayal, a neptunian would feel as hurt, an uranian aswell etc but plutonians "reactions and actions" can be more, dark.

And you are talking about her "faking" her sincerity towards her father. Ok but are you guys therapists or pro psychologists? You have no idea what she is feeling or her complex ways of acting out her trauma. Even if SHE says she was/is faking it, it does not have to be just that. Its super complex things we are talking about here, its not black or white. She obviously have a lot of unprocessed things about her father, and to me it sounds like she still loves his father but at the same time can not forgive him for the trauma he caused her and her mother. BUT I'm no expert.

I just know one can be super upset with ones parents and HATE some of their traits and some things they do, but at the end of the day, one still has that parent/child connection and bond whether one likes it or not!

She may not be aware but if she really hated him, she would have cut him from her life completely. Unless she does not rely on him for monetary support or he is rich and may leave his posessions to her, and in that case she is cold and calculating. Or she is both still loving him and still is calculating bc we are not black or white.

But we can never know what is what for her, for that we had to be pros and have had sessions with her, thats all I'm saying.

And you are talking about how she was more open and had an easier time expression herself to you etc. Some above said it was revenge. I don't believe its that simple at all. Revnge is not hurting the other, revenge is also hurting yourself at the same time and she knows it I'm sure. Its like pushing a sword into your stomach and then pressing herself into that same swords so you both are being impaled by that sword..

And yes, maybe she liked that dynamic, where she had the upper hand over you. She had power over you and that made her feel in power and control.

Only that its not how that works and I'm just speculating for again, I'm no pro and even if I were we don't have real clear picture of what is what about you guys.. but yes, maybe she felt good about that dynamic at first, where she had the upper hand and she could get some revenge.

But she may have realised that this dynamic is not working. Not being equal and always being suspucious of someone and also not be able to trust someone, that will slowly kill you inside. Also I would assume, and I'm speculating, but she may have realised, you will never be at the same level because of the "sin" you commited. You will always be locked in a dynamic where you are the "sinner" and lower then her. She will never see you as her equal. And this may be unconcious for her or concious.

Some religions state that for humans, one sin you commit will wipe out millions of good deeds you did prior to the sin. In the eyes of humans, you will be seen as a sinner. Thats how human mentality works sadly. Only god can be all forgiving and not hold that sin against you etc. And you are locked into that dynamic it seems of what you have told us here.

Also the thing that made her feel more comfy with you, I believe is that since you now were faulted and not that "perfect and pure" human being, she could relax and behave as she wished and that also ment she could be as open as she wanted to be with her feelings etc without the fear of you leaving her, (because hello, you are the sinner and you can never leave, you have to repent, for ever). For some this may actually deepen the bond! For others it will be toxic like nothing else.

Also how many of us do not hold back more or less, our true selves our manners, feelings etc because we fear the guy will leave?

If you had a healthy dynamic from the beginning, she may have been more delicate with how she behaved. But since you were the "damaged goods" she could act with no care at all about how she was percieved because in her mind, you will always ALWAYS be the worse of you two.

AND thats your dynamic in a nut shell.
AGAIN just speculating, because, again, I'm not a therapist.

I would not say this is a lost cause. But she may never ever forgive you. You will always be locked into sinner vs punisher dynamic.

What this needs is therapy. Lots of it. And thats what you should have aimed for in the beginning before you got into this dynamic. But yeah I remember now you said this is only a 2 years relationship. I guess one then wants to "Ride the wave"? until you realise it wont get fixed by itself

She need therapy for her traumas from her childhood and the traumas you caused her.

And you need therapy and also couples therapy.

Don't think about "how do I get her back". Don't turn to astrology or pluto or whatever for thise problems, you already know the answers.

Think about how and IF you would be able to get her to get help and therapy. And this every adult here would agree upon

I really hope you both will get through this. It pains so much to read about your and her pain