posted May 09, 2019 10:32 AM            

I sometimes catch myself trying to rationalize my unpleasant feelings away. Like they would go away quicker if I figure out why they came up (not the shallow reason but the deeply psychological root) and then analyze why it doesn't make sense to have them. It never works, they go when I let myself feel them fully (I don't believe in dwelling on them, don't get me wrong) but something in my still tries to intellectualize them away.

posted May 09, 2019 11:19 AM            

they go away in my case though, at least temporarily, but what feelings aren't temporary to be fair?

if i feel depressed it's just like "suck it up you'll feel something else soon enough" and then i just clear my head and ignore it typically because it serves no purpose unless action can be taken to change it in which case it still serves no purpose other than as a reminder to do something and avoid feeling that way in the future

i'm not always good at it, but most of the time it's not a big deal and i keep **** in check and feel relatively neutral

i have a lot going on with my moon though i'm guessing it's likely the trine to mercury and the trine to uranus that does it, maybe the sextile to chiron helps and it being aries probably helps with the quick to change ****

posted May 09, 2019 12:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Kani.. It's okay to take it in 'dips'. You don't have to wallow, in order for breakthrough materials to surface for you.
If you do encounter feelings you need to process, you can 'temporarily' keep stuffing those-- but could come at a price to your physical health too (e.g. ulcers).

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I don't wallow and I've been through a veeeeery long clearing and processing phase where I almost did nothing but heal past trauma and the likes. I don't stuff them away either, because I know it's not healthy. Like I said, I just let them be and they resolve by themselves but my mind (which is very quick and LOVES to analyze) seems to think they will pass quicker when analyzed. Sometimes feelings don't need to be analyzed, they just are (and they'll always go away) but my mind always likes to jump in lol.

posted May 09, 2019 12:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
i have a tendency to feel something, tell myself it's pointless then focus on something else and move on

they go away in my case though, at least temporarily, but what feelings aren't temporary to be fair?

if i feel depressed it's just like "suck it up you'll feel something else soon enough" and then i just clear my head and ignore it typically because it serves no purpose unless action can be taken to change it in which case it still serves no purpose other than as a reminder to do something and avoid feeling that way in the future

i'm not always good at it, but most of the time it's not a big deal and i keep **** in check and feel relatively neutral

i have a lot going on with my moon though i'm guessing it's likely the trine to mercury and the trine to uranus that does it, maybe the sextile to chiron helps and it being aries probably helps with the quick to change ****

no personal planets in water probably makes it easier too

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Interesting how different we all are. I feel like emotions need to wash through me, like I need to feel them completely - especially if it's some old stuff coming up to be cleared - then they will dissolve by themselves. And still my mind jumps in and tries to accelerate the process which can be annoying at times.

posted May 09, 2019 12:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Moon in 3rd or Gemini

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posted May 09, 2019 01:35 PM            

Actually lately it's been a lot of practice in just feeling my feelings, so in that sense I can really relate.

I would look to Mercury aspects with the Moon, aspects to the third house or 3rd house ruler- Even Aquarius interacting with the moon (though slightly less so for Saturn/Uranus). Capricorn moon rationlizes the hell out of their feelings too- most Earth Moons do.

posted May 09, 2019 02:01 PM            

I rationalyze so much my head and mind are spinning like crazy everytime I do it.

In my case Air moon in earthy 10th house.
Conjunct Mars and Chiron.
Opposite Saturn (wants structure in thoughts and emotions) and Uranus.

Saturn and Uranus are not moons friends. They wanna have things their own way, if not they get authoritarian or rebellious. Saturn wants structure and get to bottom with things and maturity etc..( insert all saturn keywords here). Mars conjunct moon, vulcano of feelings that triggers saturn to wanna get all the feelings in line. Uranus wanna be free from the emotion and thus will try to analyze it and move on, I believe, (insert all uranus keywords here). If pluto is there (in my case to my mercury) it will never wanna let it go.

Moon is a planet that does reflect suns lights. It has no light itself. Moon only reflects the other aspecting planets energies.

I feel, I think. I think, I feel. You can not isolate thise things!

posted May 09, 2019 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by implosions:

I would look to Mercury aspects with the Moon, aspects to the third house or 3rd house ruler- Even Aquarius interacting with the moon (though slightly less so for Saturn/Uranus). Capricorn moon rationlizes the hell out of their feelings too- most Earth Moons do.

What's going on with your moon in your chart? That may point to it! Also just depending on how we grew up being raised how to express (or how we should express) our emotions is a big thing, too.

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Mercury is in Aquarius in the 8th and it is the 3rd house ruler. It squares Uranus, trines Pluto and sextiles Neptune.
My Moon is in Cancer in the first and has mostly good aspects to the other personal planets (trines) but it has a tight square to Pluto. It is also trine Uranus and contraparallel Uranus. And yes I was punished for expressing my feelings when I was growing up.

posted May 09, 2019 02:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Interesting how different we all are. I feel like emotions need to wash through me, like I need to feel them completely - especially if it's some old stuff coming up to be cleared - then they will dissolve by themselves. And still my mind jumps in and tries to accelerate the process which can be annoying at times.

That is different from being upset about sth. someone else just did to me. I grew a thicker skin over time because it really doesn't matter that much, I don't get that upset by others' actions and words anymore.

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i have a hard time really understanding what i'm feeling to even process it in all honesty, so if it's unpleasant then it will generally feel pointless and i go about the process of distracting myself or clearing my head or both at once

drugs, sex, meditation, any kind of activity really or a combination of things

there was a point when i was really depressed where i'd go outside in the middle of the night and wander around with a couple cigarettes some weed and/or alcohol for hours because where i'm living now there's bears and **** so needing to let my eyes adjust to the dark and watching out for them or whatever else would force me to needing to really be in the moment and then i'd feel better by the time i got home however long it took

then i'd pass out and the next day would be a new day where i wouldn't necessarily feel anything in particular depending on how that went and if something came up that made me feel **** like that again then i'd just do that all over again

what i do to distract myself all depends on how much i feel and if i even need to past "that's stupid, stop"

it all really depends, when it's completely illogical to be upset i'm typically not; even with death in some cases

for example i found my grandfather's death awkward because i didn't see it as a bad thing even though i had been close to him and loved him the last year or so of his life was terrible and him dying would've probably been better than him going through that

so i didn't cry or get upset or anything about it, i mostly just felt bad for my mother and other people who were taking it hard and then found the whole thing uncomfortable because him living longer wouldve been sadder

i figured you meant it different than being upset by something other people do or say, though i guess i'm not sure why i thought as much you never said as much now that i think about it

when it comes to other people it's a matter of closeness that can cause pain for me

im really terrible with feelings though, negative ones anyway, i don't understand them i have a hard time grasping why they're there in the first place, i don't really know how to feel them properly etc i wasn't exactly allowed to have them or deal with them as a kid though regardless of situation (aside from death) so i'm all kinds of ****** up really lol

posted May 09, 2019 02:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
Mercury is in Aquarius in the 8th and it is the 3rd house ruler. It squares Uranus, trines Pluto and sextiles Neptune.
My Moon is in Cancer in the first and has mostly good aspects to the other personal planets (trines) but it has a tight square to Pluto. It is also trine Uranus and contraparallel Uranus. And yes I was punished for expressing my feelings when I was growing up.

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we have that in common then, punished for feelings as a kid and moon trine uranus

in my case i have uranus 3rd house and moon and mercury both trine it too so there's that

posted May 09, 2019 02:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:

im really terrible with feelings though, negative ones anyway, i don't understand them i have a hard time grasping why they're there in the first place, i don't really know how to feel them properly etc i wasn't exactly allowed to have them or deal with them as a kid though regardless of situation (aside from death) so i'm all kinds of ****** up really lol

i'm really thinking there's probably **** to do with mercury and uranus that do it though if i had to guess i don't remember your chart though

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I used to walk around on my own at night as well to clear my head. I really used to love doing that.

And I think negative feelings occur when reality doesn't match up with our expectation/wish of how reality should be (this can be subconscious at times). this is what we can control though, we can become aware of our expectations and practice mindfulness.

The other thing is old stuff coming up to be cleared. this is another type of negative feeling which is positive in the end though because we are getting rid of crap that was in our system which makes us freer eventually. I separate these two types of negative feelings for myself.

posted May 09, 2019 02:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
we have that in common then, punished for feelings as a kid and moon trine uranus

in my case i have uranus 3rd house and moon and mercury both trine it too so there's that

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posted May 09, 2019 02:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:

The other thing is old stuff coming up to be cleared. this is another type of negative feeling which is positive in the end though because we are getting rid of crap that was in our system which makes us freer eventually. I separate these two types of negative feelings for myself.

I do have merc sq Uranus actually. Interestingly my mother and my middle sister have it as well. I wonder if they do have the same thing going on like me.
And I was also discouraged from expressing my feelings, mostly punished for them actually. Crying, even being grumpy was upsetting for my father and he couldn't handle it so he beat me up about it sometimes.

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i never did it for that purpose when i've lived in a city, only here, city it'd just be about getting bored and looking for something to do not really about clearing my head in the same way

yeah you're right, i tend to look at depression as a symptom of being too idealistic lol

old stuff that needs to be cleared is easier to rationalize or just meditate through if it even still feels like anything, though i think i probably have issues recognizing that

i was punished too for that kind of thing, getting upset meant getting hit and **** and i wasn't allowed to have feelings because other people had them too was another thing that i'd be told a lot

didn't matter how things went down really, or what was going on just how it was

my younger brother didn't get treated like that at all and my older brother would deal with the first half of it sometimes but not the second

i was also the one everyone would go to with their feelings when they were sad (with the exception of my father but we just don't really talk about anything other than really nonpersonal **** ) so there was always a weird "you specifically don't get to have feelings" thing going on

my mother would tell me it was because i was the "stronger" one and "more rational" "less emotional" etc all those qualities she'd talk about like they were virtues just made **** worse really (both my parents were abusive about that kind of thing though)

funny how that works

posted May 09, 2019 02:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:

I just remembered one thing. I used to have daily anxiety attacks (it was part of that long clearing process) and what really helped me through them was a combination of rationalizing them and feeling the feelings. I was telling myself "It's just emotions. they can't do you any harm. E-motion = energy in motion. you are just flushing out old, stuck energies that have to get out" and it really helped. I still let that wave of anxiety wash through me but the rationalizing helped me to not let it escalate, if that makes sense. I also knew they'd be gone for good one day and they have been gone for several years now.

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i used to have them too, but it was mostly while i was smoking a lot of pcp laced weed so i'm not sure it counts the same

but i would handle it the way you're talking just "this is just a feeling it will pass" and then go on like it wasn't happening until it did pass because when you pay attention to that kind of thing or aren't aware of it rationally that only makes it worse

posted May 09, 2019 03:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:

funny how that works

similar though, abuse due to people who couldn't control their own feelings having an issue with me having any

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posted May 09, 2019 06:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
You just PERFECTLY described my father. A very volatile, moody, explosive, unpredictable man. We never knew when he would explode and go wild (meaning shouting, breaking stuff, hitting me - my sisters rately got hit), because he would get upset about sth, someone else did but not have the guts to confront them and then kick off when I did sth. (like laugh to loudly at my sister's joke) and then take all his frustrations out on me.
But God forbid I would cry or whatever. I did express my feelings, I think I would have gone mental if I didn't, but guilt was always attached. the vicous cycle was: don't express bad feelings (sometimes even good ones) because that might upset your dad which would eventually upset your mum (because he was a ******* psycho) who has high blood pressure and isn't allowed to be upset. So I'd eventually get the blame if they were upset for showing my negative feelings that only existed because of them. Really ****** up. My father even blamed me when my mum had a stroke even though it was me who called the ambulance (I was visiting them and was alone with her when that happened). I basically saved her life and he blamed me. So messed up, really. If anyone then it was him who indirectly caused it.

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my father was like that too, never knew what would set him off and it had to do with other people often (if my younger brother did anything or was upset over anything if my older brother or i were in the vicinity we were the ones who would get **** for it)

that's not to say i never did **** but in all honesty a lot of the actually bad **** i did growing up i never got caught doing so i never got in trouble for it, and the stuff i did get caught doing was usually by my mother who would lie to him and hide it anyway (she was more volatile and abusive when i was really young when i was around 10 or so she eased up in a lot of ways but was always the easier parent to deal with) to avoid the **** that would follow if he knew

i spent a lot of my childhood trying my best to avoid everyone i lived with and reading instead and it left me with having a hard time with sorting through my own feelings and whatnot

though it made me feel like other people's feelings are important and i tend to not speak about my own, but have no problem listening to other people and being there for them long after most people would lose patience

it's not so much that i felt guilty for having feelings the way you did (though i can think of instances where i sometimes will have that issue) it's that i would go out of my way to escape them (i would do things like hide in the bathroom while my father was losing his **** somewhere else and barricade the door and just drink whatever meds i could find in the sink that'd make me drowsy and whatnot before i was even 10) and as i got older i'd just go out a lot and do a bunch of stupid reckless **** for a rush etc and so on

i'd get hit for all kinds of retarded **** too for example my whole digestive system is ****** and has been since i was a kid, and when i'd say it as a child my parents would assume i was trying to get out of school (based on ass backwards logic like "you don't have a fever") and i'd get hit for that, on the bright side if i could hold out long enough with getting hit to be really late i'd get out of school (and i nearly always held out long enough)

never took me to a doctor for it though, but that would've made sense lol

also got hit for having insomnia if i got out of bed or made noise when i couldn't sleep, so i'd get like an hour or 2 a night if that and the rest of the night i'd just be trapped in bed with absolutely nothing to do most of the time unless i managed to sneak a couple of books in and then i'd have to hide them because they'd insist it was the books keeping up (not that i'd read them because i couldn't sleep and staring at the cracks on the ceiling for hours on end is mind numbing)

so i get you on just the retarded **** setting them off thing too, just anything to pick at was fair game

******** that he blamed you for your mother's stroke, people like that always need someone though and you were unlucky enough to be the scapegoat (there's always one you know, people like that always need at least one scapegoat) i guess you being there was good enough

i always wonder though if people like that are delusional enough to really believe that sort of thing or if they're just acting out and somewhere in there they know better it's hard to tell

posted May 10, 2019 03:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:

it's not so much that i felt guilty for having feelings the way you did (though i can think of instances where i sometimes will have that issue) it's that i would go out of my way to escape them (i would do things like hide in the bathroom while my father was losing his **** somewhere else and barricade the door and just drink whatever meds i could find in the sink that'd make me drowsy and whatnot before i was even 10) and as i got older i'd just go out a lot and do a bunch of stupid reckless **** for a rush etc and so on

i'd get hit for all kinds of retarded **** too for example my whole digestive system is ****** and has been since i was a kid, and when i'd say it as a child my parents would assume i was trying to get out of school (based on ass backwards logic like "you don't have a fever") and i'd get hit for that, on the bright side if i could hold out long enough with getting hit to be really late i'd get out of school (and i nearly always held out long enough)

never took me to a doctor for it though, but that would've made sense lol

also got hit for having insomnia if i got out of bed or made noise when i couldn't sleep, so i'd get like an hour or 2 a night if that and the rest of the night i'd just be trapped in bed with absolutely nothing to do most of the time unless i managed to sneak a couple of books in and then i'd have to hide them because they'd insist it was the books keeping up (not that i'd read them because i couldn't sleep and staring at the cracks on the ceiling for hours on end is mind numbing)

so i get you on just the retarded **** setting them off thing too, just anything to pick at was fair game

******** that he blamed you for your mother's stroke, people like that always need someone though and you were unlucky enough to be the scapegoat (there's always one you know, people like that always need at least one scapegoat) i guess you being there was good enough

i always wonder though if people like that are delusional enough to really believe that sort of thing or if they're just acting out and somewhere in there they know better it's hard to tell

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I didn't feel guilty for having feelings, I knew they were right (living in that environment made me angry, understandably) but I felt guilty if I expressed them in front of my parents - usually by throwing fits and screaming - because that could potentially endanger my mother's health. That was the way of thinking. My father had carte blanche to express whatever he felt, anytime he wanted, I didn't.
As for the stroke and he blaming me: I'm sure deep down he felt guilty himself but of course couldn't admit (he never could admit to any wrongdoings) so he projected that onto me.

posted May 10, 2019 08:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lalafortunaea:
It can be a very Virgo thing, too, to rationalize or explain away.

In general earth signs do it a lot as well.

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makes sense that Earth signs would do it. My boyfriend is a Taurus sun and he says it doesn't make sense to get mad about minor stuff so he doesn't. I have an Earth void in my chart though

posted May 10, 2019 08:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
I didn't feel guilty for having feelings, I knew they were right (living in that environment made me angry, understandably) but I felt guilty if I expressed them in front of my parents - usually by throwing fits and screaming - because that could potentially endanger my mother's health. That was the way of thinking. My father had carte blanche to express whatever he felt, anytime he wanted, I didn't.
As for the stroke and he blaming me: I'm sure deep down he felt guilty himself but of course couldn't admit (he never could admit to any wrongdoings) so he projected that onto me.

And I used to be like you when it came to dealing with other people's feelings: I used to have really good patience with people telling me about their issues and problems (even though they weren't real problems in my eyes, only in theirs) and I attracted tons of people who would cry on my shoulder for ages and over and over again. I would never tell anyone about my stuff though. I sorted my issues out on my own mostly.
Do you still have a relationship with your parents?

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oh you and i took it differently in that sense, for me i would have feelings, feel like i should have control over them rational or not and feel guilty when i couldn't just push them away or ignore them and it'd make me feel like **** for being weak etc and so on (on a rational level i'm aware that those thoughts aren't actually logical or fair to myself and so on) but yeah i definitely saw it as a sign of weakness and then would feel guilty about exhibiting weakness

as a kid i didn't see the level of hypocrisy there when it came to expressing feelings, did you? i'm curious because it was only in retrospect and after a lot of really picking things apart that i started to see that they were doing what i wasn't allowed to and that it was hypocritical of them to behave in that manner and how damaging it is etc

did he ever laugh or brag about some of the abuse like it was all a fun game? curious because my mother in particular would retell times that she'd hit me or my older brother like it was all just really funny, even to other people (she hasn't since my fiancee called her out on it after she told her some story like she was supposed to laugh or some **** , i can't remember what) but my parents would do it like this "yeah you really deserved that beating" or "i really got you that time" and i've noticed neither of them have since my niece was born

i've always attracted people like that and react like that, but when something is actually deeply bothering me i close myself off and just can't talk about it at all

i can seem more open than i am in a sense because i'll talk about some heavy **** , but it's only ever heavy **** i feel a level of detachment from anything that really hurts i can't bring myself to manage it and there's been points where i've just disconnected from damn near everyone just to not have to hear "how are you?" lol

it depends on how you define relationship, do i still speak to them and see them? yes, and i'm not angry with them about the past i understand they had their own trauma and terrible childhoods and were acting that out and all that **** so i don't hold it against them

but are we close at all? no, as far as my immediate family goes i'm the closest to my younger brother and not close to my older brother and even with my younger brother i don't tell him a lot of things that are personal

the reality is my family doesn't really know me, and they don't know a whole lot about my life on any level and likely never will because i see no reason to really speak to them about a good deal of it

i tend to keep it light and just make a lot of jokes and very rarely say much of anything

what about you?

edit: btw my fiancee can tend to try to rationalize things and like you she's an earth void (she has a lot of water actually scorpio venus and mercury and pisces mars) though she tends to still act out her emotions without realizing it or she'll obsess over them etc

she's more emotional than she likes to admit and i don't think she can fully see it

posted May 10, 2019 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
oh you and i took it differently in that sense, for me i would have feelings, feel like i should have control over them rational or not and feel guilty when i couldn't just push them away or ignore them and it'd make me feel like **** for being weak etc and so on (on a rational level i'm aware that those thoughts aren't actually logical or fair to myself and so on) but yeah i definitely saw it as a sign of weakness and then would feel guilty about exhibiting weakness

as a kid i didn't see the level of hypocrisy there when it came to expressing feelings, did you? i'm curious because it was only in retrospect and after a lot of really picking things apart that i started to see that they were doing what i wasn't allowed to and that it was hypocritical of them to behave in that manner and how damaging it is etc

did he ever laugh or brag about some of the abuse like it was all a fun game? curious because my mother in particular would retell times that she'd hit me or my older brother like it was all just really funny, even to other people (she hasn't since my fiancee called her out on it after she told her some story like she was supposed to laugh or some **** , i can't remember what) but my parents would do it like this "yeah you really deserved that beating" or "i really got you that time" and i've noticed neither of them have since my niece was born

i've always attracted people like that and react like that, but when something is actually deeply bothering me i close myself off and just can't talk about it at all

i can seem more open than i am in a sense because i'll talk about some heavy **** , but it's only ever heavy **** i feel a level of detachment from anything that really hurts i can't bring myself to manage it and there's been points where i've just disconnected from damn near everyone just to not have to hear "how are you?" lol

it depends on how you define relationship, do i still speak to them and see them? yes, and i'm not angry with them about the past i understand they had their own trauma and terrible childhoods and were acting that out and all that **** so i don't hold it against them

but are we close at all? no, as far as my immediate family goes i'm the closest to my younger brother and not close to my older brother and even with my younger brother i don't tell him a lot of things that are personal

the reality is my family doesn't really know me, and they don't know a whole lot about my life on any level and likely never will because i see no reason to really speak to them about a good deal of it

i tend to keep it light and just make a lot of jokes and very rarely say much of anything

what about you?

edit: btw my fiancee can tend to try to rationalize things and like you she's an earth void (she has a lot of water actually scorpio venus and mercury and pisces mars) though she tends to still act out her emotions without realizing it or she'll obsess over them etc

she's more emotional than she likes to admit and i don't think she can fully see it

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They wouldn't brag, but my father would feel uncomfortable when I brought up stuff from the past and he would try to justify it. I stopped trying to get some explanation because I soon realised it doesn't make sense. My mum used to deny stuff when I brought it up which made me livid. she is much better now though and more realistic. I'm civil with my father now, Im keeping my distance and I only see him because he and my mother are still together. I love my mum. She is very witty and funny and she has learnt from the past (unlike my dad) and she sticks up for us now while she hasn't in the past when my dad starts complaining or talking sh* about us (he really has no reason to anyway). So I would say I do have a relationship with my mother and not really with my father.

I did see the hypocrysy when I was little and that is what really bothered me. I also saw how spineless my father was with other people and then tried to establish his authority with us (his family). It never worked because we saw his true self. He never had inner authority and let himself be used and taken advantage of by certain people. That wouldn't have been an issue if he didn't take the frustration about this out on us, especially on me. Of course I couldn't trust him and wanted to be close to him.

I can relate to the connection you made between having emotions and weakness. that was communicated in my family as well.

I wouldn't consider myself an unemotional person at all. I m not extremely emotional but I'm definitely not purely logical lol. Sometimes my emotions can be delayed. For example sth. sad happens, like someone close to us dying. Everyone starts crying straight away when hearing the news, but I usually don't. It usually comes much much later. I always have used my mind to regulate my emotions though and get myself through some tough situations (like the anxiety attacks I told you about). So Im definitely not out of control emotional like my dad (or a little child lol).

Edit: like your fiancee I can have phases of obsession but it's usually sexual and related to someone Im lusting after haha. That is really rare though because I don't find that many people sexually attractive in the first place. But when I do I can obsessively fantasize about them. My middle sister is an obsessive person when it comes to resentment especially. she has less water than I but she has a much harder time letting go. It might be her Pluto in the 1st

posted May 10, 2019 10:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kani:
They wouldn't brag, but my father would feel uncomfortable when I brought up stuff from the past and he would try to justify it. I stopped trying to get some explanation because I soon realised it doesn't make sense. My mum used to deny stuff when I brought it up which made me livid. she is much better now though and more realistic. I'm civil with my father now, Im keeping my distance and I only see him because he and my mother are still together. I love my mum. She is very witty and funny and she has learnt from the past (unlike my dad) and she sticks up for us now while she hasn't in the past when my dad starts complaining or talking sh* about us (he really has no reason to anyway). So I would say I do have a relationship with my mother and not really with my father.

I did see the hypocrysy when I was little and that is what really bothered me. I also saw how spineless my father was with other people and then tried to establish his authority with us (his family). It never worked because we saw his true self. He never had inner authority and let himself be used and taken advantage of by certain people. That wouldn't have been an issue if he didn't take the frustration about this out on us, especially on me. Of course I couldn't trust him and wanted to be close to him.

I can relate to the connection you made between having emotions and weakness. that was communicated in my family as well.

I wouldn't consider myself an unemotional person at all. I m not extremely emotional but I'm definitely not purely logical lol. Sometimes my emotions can be delayed. For example sth. sad happens, like someone close to us dying. Everyone starts crying straight away when hearing the news, but I usually don't. It usually comes much much later. I always have used my mind to regulate my emotions though and get myself through some tough situations (like the anxiety attacks I told you about). So Im definitely not out of control emotional like my dad (or a little child lol).

Edit: like your fiancee I can have phases of obsession but it's usually sexual and related to someone Im lusting after haha. That is really rare though because I don't find that many people sexually attractive in the first place. But when I do I can obsessively fantasize about them. My middle sister is an obsessive person when it comes to resentment especially. she has less water than I but she has a much harder time letting go. It might be her Pluto in the 1st

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my mother only feels uncomfortable about it now that she's been helping my older brother take care of his daughter, but prior to that it was like i said

my father and i have never discussed any of it and i wouldn't even bother because i barely know him (my parents are still married and have been for longer than i've been alive btw so it's not like he was out of the picture)

it's interesting that you saw the hypocrisy then, for me it was just all self blame like "i'm weak for this" and "i need to be stronger and not have feelings" etc and then later on being like "wait that's ****** up and they clearly had lots of feelings" i think because i got it worse in a lot of ways and my younger brother was very free to cry and all kinds of **** i saw it as somehow different when i had feelings rather than just seeing hypocrisy

signs of weakness weren't allowed yeah, and even now as an adult i have a tendency to have a "never let someone see you crack" mentality for myself that i don't put on other people it's still stuck that other people can have all the emotions in the world but mine are for me to control and move past etc

i've done that actually, with the crying way later thing, actually i cried about a year after my grandfather died when i found something he had given me because i missed him and it had been even longer since i had him in my life than him actually dying so it wasn't really his death that did it

i try my best to avoid funerals because of it, i can't deal with the way other people will act and it makes me really uncomfortable to be that level unemotional (i have a very hard time crying at all, like actual tears i can get close occasionally and then it's just gone) and having people who are crying hug me and talk etc

and i'm the same way where i'll just talk myself through something if i'm feeling it just that knowledge of "this will pass" does a lot for me

i actually have pluto in the 1st (with some house systems anyway, my ascendant is libra and pluto is in scorpio) sextile my sun and neptune (my sun trines neptune) but i'm not the obsessive type i don't replay things in my head or obsess about other people etc i'm not sure if it's the positive aspects to it that make it easier or not