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Author Topic:   Your "Children" 👶🏿 are not necessarily what you think.
Librapurr
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posted March 24, 2020 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Librapurr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting, there is some synchronicity. I’d be too lazy to identify everything and precisely. So I mostly stick with Sun signs

One of my “child” came to me in my 7th house sign, he definitely has feisty Aries temper even his pediatrician described him similar when my baby tried to kill him. Some think it might be Rosemary’s baby, I think it’s just leadership spirit 😏 Anyway, 7th house - I’m stuck with it. His actual birthday Sun in Pisces (5th house). He gets compliments about his Pisces beauty all the time, but he is a dangerous creature.

The other was supposed to be Gemini, but I needed to make it Libra. I wasn’t too excited about it, and it kind of faded in 12th house as some of my Libra.

One more is Scorpio. She was moody and unpredictable in the beginning, but turned out to have a good head on her shoulders. Her Sun goes right to my 2nd house.

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hypatia238
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posted March 24, 2020 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I swear the tile sounds so moon in scorpio, like hahahah watch out! your kids are not what you think, be paranoid! they are out doing everything you taught them not to LOL, mischievous mavericks!

I know the thread is totally not about that at all but is a cute title...

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hypatia238
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posted March 24, 2020 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My children are my clients. Therapist basically are professional mothers and fathers but the nourishing archetype mostly, that help a baby develop a secure attachment so it grows up to be able to regulate well emotionally with a healthy self worth so it has the confidence to explore the world and pursue its dreams etc...they come to us and we help repair attachment issues essentially with the connection we develop with them and then they fly away with confidence once the internal work has reached a certain point.

My clients are my children, I love them. I like seeing them grow and helping them build up their wings so they are no longer afraid to fly.

I know I am a corny F*ck lol

Mars rules my IC and conjuncts my VENUS in the 8th in LEO, Venus rules my MC/6H/5H and my Mars conjunct Venus fall in my 8H.

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Aries23Degrees
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From: South Africa
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posted March 25, 2020 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a few clients I am in contact with. Now that the whole country is on lock-down ,I do consultations here and there online.

The issue I have is that I meet clients that are NOT self aware 🤷🏾‍♂️ And this is crucial in consulting & chart reading.

It's alright when a client contradicts me and expands on why they disagree etc. But I have met some(through correspondence) who are annoying AF 😠

You will intepret the chart & add layer and layer of explanations.Back up your interpretations with interview sessions. Do the ground work etc.And then they respond with grunts/a confused face.

One client( a Gemini)told me that he is not talkive at all and doesn't relate to my interpretation of his chart. He was specifically referring to his Moon in Vir in 9th.

Then he went into very detailed explanations as to why I am "incorrect".
And all the while I am reading all of
that there on my screen and getting a headache.

He has Virgo Moon/Mercury square with Jupiter in Virgo too in his chart. Which suggests a kind of finicky approach with words.

And I could tell that that was the case with that very detailed and very long winded E-mail(Jup in Virg in 9th).

I had to postpone reading other clients to refresh for a day. But I definitely avoid doing a follow up with some clients

After all that,the spoken of client came back to say "I think your interpretation was correct. I talked it over with my wife and she agreed to a lot of it."🙄

Now he wants a follow-up😭 How do you deal with such clients?

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Librapurr
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posted March 25, 2020 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Librapurr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Somebody says it’s about Scorpio moon too, oh, no.. I need to be banned from all topics related to it. 🙊

quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I have a few clients I am in contact with. Now that the whole country is on lock-down ,I do consultations here and there online.

The issue I have is that I meet clients that are NOT self aware 🤷🏾‍♂️ And this is crucial in consulting & chart reading.

It's alright when a client contradicts me and expands on why they disagree etc. But I have met some(through correspondence) who are annoying AF 😠

You will intepret the chart & add layer and layer of explanations.Back up your interpretations with interview sessions. Do the ground work etc.And then they respond with grunts/a confused face.

One client( a Gemini)told me that he is not talkive at all and doesn't relate to my interpretation of his chart. He was specifically referring to his Moon in Vir in 9th.

Then he went into very detailed explanations as to why I am "incorrect".
And all the while I am reading all of
that there on my screen and getting a headache.


I get it with some friends. Once I try to explain some placements, aspects, they’re not ready to accept about themselves or don’t like - “I don’t believe in Astrology, it’s BS”.

However, if the interpretation about something they like or aspire to be (even if it’s just a potential what sounds nothing like their current state) - they like and believe in Astrology.

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Graham
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posted March 25, 2020 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

quote:
How do you deal with such clients?

Bear in mind that the interaction with his/her astrologer may be the "event" created by his/her current progressions and transits?

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 25, 2020 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Librapurr:
Somebody says it’s about Scorpio moon too, oh, no.. I need to be banned from all topics related to it. 🙊

I get it with some friends. Once I try to explain some placements, aspects, they’re not ready to accept about themselves or don’t like - “I don’t believe in Astrology, it’s BS”.

However, if the interpretation about something they like or aspire to be (even if it’s just a potential what sounds nothing like their current state) - they like and believe in Astrology.


Selective listening 🤦🏾‍♂️ lol.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 25, 2020 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

Bear in mind that the interaction with his/her astrologer may be the "event" created by his/her current progressions and transits?

True. I took that in mind. There are times we are more receptive to information than at other times.

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hypatia238
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posted March 25, 2020 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I have a few clients I am in contact with. Now that the whole country is on lock-down ,I do consultations here and there online.

The issue I have is that I meet clients that are NOT self aware 🤷🏾‍♂️ And this is crucial in consulting & chart reading.

It's alright when a client contradicts me and expands on why they disagree etc. But I have met some(through correspondence) who are annoying AF 😠

You will intepret the chart & add layer and layer of explanations.Back up your interpretations with interview sessions. Do the ground work etc.And then they respond with grunts/a confused face.

One client( a Gemini)told me that he is not talkive at all and doesn't relate to my interpretation of his chart. He was specifically referring to his Moon in Vir in 9th.

Then he went into very detailed explanations as to why I am "incorrect".
And all the while I am reading all of
that there on my screen and getting a headache.

He has Virgo Moon/Mercury square with Jupiter in Virgo too in his chart. Which suggests a kind of finicky approach with words.

And I could tell that that was the case with that very detailed and very long winded E-mail(Jup in Virg in 9th).

I had to postpone reading other clients to refresh for a day. But I definitely avoid doing a follow up with some clients

After all that,the spoken of client came back to say "I think your interpretation was correct. I talked it over with my wife and she agreed to a lot of it."🙄

Now he wants a follow-up😭 How do you deal with such clients?


A lot of what you do is plant seeds, sometimes people are not ready to face something about themselves or look at something objectively but you plant a seed so they start thinking about it and exploring it and that is what YOU DID WITH HIM, evidenced by him asking his wife about it, but I have mercury in virgo and I question everything and need to go through my process before I accept something, he needed to question it and not take it at face value just bc an expert told him this is how you are and you need to be patient with that and understand he needs to process it internally before he accepts it, he is not just going to accept it bc you said it. I get what you mean but the good news is that him coming to you for a reading means he wants to explore himself more in depth and increase his self awareness but everyone's process is different.

So learn from this and next time if they don't agree with an insight you are giving them ask 1. How do you think you are communication wise? and be humble and say I can learn from you from your feedback as astrology is also an art, provide psychoeducation on astrology and 2. lets do something, ask your friends and family if they agree with this interpretation as you might learn something interesting about yourself and then provide psychoeducation on the Johari window maybe........

Or do none of that LOL, you still planted a seed and that is most of the work just getting them to think about themselves more in depth or in a different way and sometimes you will be wrong about an interpretation, astrology is very complex.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 25, 2020 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
A lot of what you do is plant seeds, sometimes people are not ready to face something about themselves or look at something objectively but you plant a seed so they start thinking about it and exploring it and that is what YOU DID WITH HIM, evidenced by him asking his wife about it, but I have mercury in virgo and I question everything and need to go through my process before I accept something, he needed to question it and not take it at face value just bc an expert told him this is how you are and you need to be patient with that and understand he needs to process it internally before he accepts it, he is not just going to accept it bc you said it. I get what you mean but the good news is that him coming to you for a reading means he wants to explore himself more in depth and increase his self awareness but everyone's process is different.

So learn from this and next time if they don't agree with an insight you are giving them ask 1. How do you think you are communication wise? and be humble and say I can learn from you from your feedback as astrology is also an art, provide psychoeducation on astrology and 2. lets do something, ask your friends and family if they agree with this interpretation as you might learn something interesting about yourself and then provide psychoeducation on the Johari window maybe........

Or do none of that LOL, you still planted a seed and that is most of the work just getting them to think about themselves more in depth or in a different way and sometimes you will be wrong about an interpretation, astrology is very complex.


True. Live and learn I guess. My Mars 7th nature takes over a lot sometimes one on one. I can be very forward- perhaps even a little pushy 🤣

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hypatia238
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posted March 25, 2020 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
True. Live and learn I guess. My Mars 7th nature takes over a lot sometimes one on one. I can be very forward- perhaps even a little pushy 🤣


hahahahaha I know I get that too, I am direct too. And there is definitely a place for been directive and straight forward in these types of professions. TBF the world can use more direct, I think people can find that refreshing but you have to have that trust and safety established first and your gut lets you know "Hey be direct about this they need to hear this" and if it comes from the right place it usually plays out okay.

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Graham
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posted March 26, 2020 04:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
True. I took that in mind. There are times we are more receptive to information than at other times.

Sometimes though ... just a quick look at the synastry between myself and the other person tells me that "he/she will believe himself/herself to have read something that I will believe myself to have not written" (and vice-versa). ... And that kind of astrologer-client mismatch is perhaps best avoided from the outset.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 26, 2020 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
Ironically, I ran a longer post where I was detailing all this before I decided that it was too long winded. Lol

What I realised about Universal law is that there is some weird synchronicity/ timing that we don't "escape" from.

We may tend to think that things are "random" & are impersonal.No.Everything that occurs in our relative experience concerns us personally and is related to divine timing.

[b]But one thing seems insurmountable to me, how do you decide the birth date and time for such projects?

To me the "birth date" would depend on the project concerned. If its an art gallery to showcase your talent, it's the day and time of the official opening.When the "public" views your work. Its the moment you put yourself "out there" [Asc]

What about something you've worked over the years on such as a craft or art? How do you manufacture a birth date and time for any such child?

If not the formal gallery as stipulated above. It is the day you put up a stand and others come to view your creations, buy and even ask questions.

What about pets? had one I actually nurtured but from about a week old so no precise birth day and no birth time...

It is the day you received the pet. The day it came under your possession and you became responsible for it.

The birthing of a child involves taking the child out of the stomach(hidden from the world) and into your arms.

So the "birthing" of your "child"/project involves coming out of the shadows and into the open for public consumption.

If you are into writing, it is the day that you have your story published in a book to be read by many. And you reserve a copy of the book for reference.

If you are into mountain climbing.That could be the day you decide to enter a competition until its completion and receive something in hand for your participation. You keep that medal as reference to taking part.

If you are into cooking. It is the day you are tasked to cook for an event that has a number of people in attendance.

You keep the event itself as memory to how your cooking was received/what went right/what went wrong/ what worked/ what didn't etc.

"Success" here is not the evaluation for the "birth". It is the fact that you put your work/heart out there for public consumption or to a greater audience.

That book may not have been a bestseller, you may not have come 1st in that mountain climbing competition,your cooking may have gotten bad reviews etc. But it is the putting it out into the public platform that matters.

As you have more "children" I.e more galleries, adopt more animals or enter more competitions etc. You may get more comfortable with putting yourself out there to the public space.

Or( in the case of puppies), you may become more comfortable in taking care of animals and even become an "expert" to a point where you open a shelter for animals.

But you will always recall the "1st" gallery or the 1st puppy you adopted. Whether that was a good/bad experience, the memory of it will linger on.[/B]



First of all, so sorry to get back to you so late, working from home is ruining me, it takes so much more time than to do it for real… I’m exhausted and constantly lacking time ^^
Haha, sorry, I imagine you can always count on me to be the numpty who needs extra information, or just the one to wreck your new years’s resolution of ranting a little less
I can take the “divine” intervention part of synchronicity, but I still cringe a little at the determination of the exact when…
Your notion of “out in the open” both makes perfect sense to me and irks me to no end. First because the biological baby analogy is flawed a) because a child exists before it’s born, and I’m not being some douche pro-life bint here, I mean somewhere between the moment it’s an embryo you can decide to carry out or not and a living breathing human, it’s a baby and that should matter too I think (ask a woman who’s lost a child in utero at 7 month when the head’s formed and he/she kicks, the proof pretty much is in the pudding), somehow I have always taken for granted the fact we use the birth to make someone’s chart is because we consider this is when their will comes into play for the first time, they decide to be born, not because it’s when the parents have made them. In other word, they become people, but the parents have already been parents for a while.
O and just to tease you, babies aren’t carried in the stomach lol
b) because it reduces the whole “baby”’s identity to “others” and while I’ll give you any day we’re up to at least 50% what others make of us, even if you’re some strong R&B mama chick, how others see you defines you, it’s part of the package, whether it is because it makes you some independent big mouth, or a bullied victim or just someone who’s very much loved, you are not yourself as long as you haven’t interacted with others. Otherwise you’re just some living 12th house too blurry to say “I” and know what it means (absolutely no offence here Pisces, I love you and your house); but a walking blob still is a thing and it still is reductive as all **** to reduce someone/something’s all identity to others in that respect because in your examples, you always insist on the idea of consumption too and as someone who hates money and think capitalism is the worst thing that has happened to us in a long while, the notion really bothers me.
Take my pet, I can make an “event” chart for the moment we met, I pretty much even have a decent time slot for it 😊 but that’d be reductive. He was born before that, had his own chart, why on earth should I impose a new one on him? If I follow the same logic, should I make myself a new chart the day I meet my husband? The “born the day they kiss you” is very romantic but is it really fair to carry it that far?
What about my dancing? I adore dancing but I hate performing, does that doom my dancing to never deserve being credited as one my “children” just because I keep it to myself? I don’t really mind, but it doesn’t sound fair, same for the many talented authors who can’t get published. Your notion makes sense but once propelled into reality it’s not sound enough to be fair. It’ll work every time someone looks back at it going “I wasn’t really serious about climbing until the day I enrolled in that competition”, but what about the millions of us who have passions that are very much our children but never become so “official”? Can’t they get credit too? I could actually argue it’s the very thing that makes them passions, if you compete, perform…. You may not make a living from it but you’re still taking it from hobby to pro in some form, so why reject amateur creations so harshly? Just because a “hobby” is hidden from the public doesn’t mean it’s light-hearted. You also hide what’s precious to you, what you’re most passionate about, you protect it, just like the womb protects the unborn child, already formed and loved for a while and while the biological birth is inevitable, we all know if given a choice some of us would never leave, so if that choice suddenly becomes available with our other children, why shouldn’t it be on the table? Why can’t hobbies be children? (even though I give you hobby sounds light-hearted, which is why I refer to passion )
I think it’s rough to consider anonymidarkness’ workout regime and art classes are “just” works in progress. They’re not, it takes something to commit, to go, to learn, to repeat the discipline day in and day out, to have done it long enough to say “I have a work out regime” or “I attend art classes” is already an achievement and I actually think it’s one of our problems as a society to not validate these enough. We tend to be a lot about result, but even as you aptly explained why result in itself wasn’t the matter in your approach, the fact your system cannot incorporate those 2 examples from anonymidarkness’ bothers me. It just would be a much more enticing thing if it did


I’m not saying every drawing my nephew does is his child, but people write in their diaries, it gives them solace and comfort and allows them to realise how much they grow, evolve, it nurtures them in return, and all of that is an achievement. It would be like saying you haven’t self-worked unless you’ve paid a therapist. I love therapists, but you have to give people: for some of them the achievement of overcoming trauma, becoming their selves, making their coming out…. anything; comes from their work alone, no “public” involved. And once the achievement starts begin noticed by others, it’d be close to rape to say that’s only when it gets real - of course in some cases people will self-work precisely for that, but I for example have been through lots of weight struggles due to illness and when I finally reached a weight I felt myself at, the looks of men were horrendous to me, I hadn’t done this for them, it did not belong to them, it was my achievement, me Vs illness and I still am not keen to share any of that with any man who’d think the fruit of my labour, my “child”, is for consumption. The day it all got real to me was when I weighed and it was finally moving downward, something the doctor had vowed would never happen because of my hormonal imbalance. I was still far from a summer dress then, but that’s the day I achieved. Not when the doctor waited an extra 6 months before he validated the pattern, not when someone I hadn’t seen in a while acknowledged the change, nope, it was right when nothing had changed for anyone else but me, I knew, I felt, I could see. This is when I won. The same way Buffy felt she had lost that day when she put a book back on the shelf and in a split second, she wished for Glory to have Dawn and it be over. (you just know I mean **** when I quote Buffy right? )
A biological child is meant to leave your body but your other creations aren’t bound t that biological reality so if you want o astrologically acknowledge them, shouldn’t you take that into account? (essentially repeating myself here )
So before I get both of us in a never-ending survey of cases where your approach brilliantly works and others where it gets if-ee, I think we can agree it’s a pure shade of grey situation and that’s the thing that bothers me. When you do a birth chart, it’s birth, same for everyone. But with a metaphorical child the birth gets also quite metaphorical itself and since it can be anything, I’m afraid it ceases to be relevant to an extent. But in some cases only, I’m very keen on thinking you’re onto something with the cases where there’s a date to be kept, I’ll just link it to “event” rather than “birth” charts maybe.
I’ll only nit-pick about the hour then and only because you mentioned the child’s Asc. How can you give any value to an Asc, IC…. House…. When you only really worked with a date? (unless it was one of those exception when you had a time of course 😊 )
Thanks for bearing with me ^^

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hypatia238
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posted March 26, 2020 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Sometimes though ... just a quick look at the synastry between myself and the other person tells me that "he/she will believe himself/herself to have read something that I will believe myself to have not written" (and vice-versa). ... And that kind of astrologer-client mismatch is perhaps best avoided from the outset.


Good point

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Aries23Degrees
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From: South Africa
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posted March 27, 2020 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
I generally agree -- we can give birth to lots of things and all of it is our innate creativity. There seems to be a subconscious presumptive longing that if I have children of my own from my own body/ with my own DNA they are obligated to love me and I will be more loved ... not always so true, huh?

Too true. We do certainly give birth to our "children" through our creative expression.

And to be honest,many people's real reason for having kids is so that those kids stay with them, take care of them AND make them the focus of their undivided attention.

That's why I think many parents tend to have a problem when a child asserts their own independence & wants to be their own selves. The Leo ego development coincides with the teenage phase.

But what parents don't realise & artists quickly do,is that your "creations"/children take a life of their own after birth.

They are no longer just an extension of your personality.They evolve in their own unique way-separate from you.

Ask any singer who has produced/ written or sung a hit song. Often when asked about the reception of the song and subsequent success, their response is "I didn't know that it (song) was going to blow up like it did".

How could they? The song became a separate entity and perosnality.Even though they have their proverbial "DNA" on it i.e. vocals, lyrics etc. The song will likely outlive them physically or go further out into the world than they could ever thought to have reached into by themselves.

However, the themes of the 5th house of creative talents/passion and Love Given is always available to us. Mars-Jupiter-Saturn-Pluto are all transiting through that house in my birth chart and I've never been more interested in expanding my creative activities. I'd have been surprised by this shift from writing to painting a year or two ago. Now it seems entirely natural. I'm getting a crash course by watching painters in action on youtube. Modern home media and communication is awesome!

That is fantastic. This energy is opening you up to untapped resources of creative expression.

It matters little now whether what you create is "good" or "bad". What is essential is that you follow the urge to create. Have fun 😊

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 27, 2020 04:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
hahahahaha I know I get that too, I am direct too. And there is definitely a place for been directive and straight forward in these types of professions. TBF the world can use more direct, I think people can find that refreshing but you have to have that trust and safety established first and your gut lets you know "Hey be direct about this they need to hear this" and if it comes from the right place it usually plays out okay.

Easy does it. I am learning more patience. More compassion. It's work in progress.

I have noted interestingly enough that those with 12th Aries, Mars/Sat aspects or Gem/Vir tend to be the more challenging ones.

Gemini clients tend to want to "trick" you or "catch" you out.Virg tend towards being very pedantic & critical of the words used or context i.e "I wouldn't say I was "sad" per.Just disappointed!" etc.🙄

Whilst the former two can be oblivious (12th Aries) & outright denialists (Mars Sat)respectively.

Patience Aries. PATIENCE😎

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 27, 2020 04:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
Sometimes though ... just a quick look at the synastry between myself and the other person tells me that "he/she will believe himself/herself to have read something that I will believe myself to have not written" (and vice-versa). ... And that kind of astrologer-client mismatch is perhaps best avoided from the outset.

Oh ok. I see now. With my fav client,we have a Mercury(mine)/Moon(theirs)trine and Mars(theirs)/Ven(mine) conj. Hmm....

I feel like what I say, they just "get".

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Aries23Degrees
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posted March 27, 2020 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:

First of all, so sorry to get back to you so late, working from home is ruining me, it takes so much more time than to do it for real… I’m exhausted and constantly lacking time ^^
Haha, sorry, I imagine you can always count on me to be the numpty who needs extra information, or just the one to wreck your new years’s resolution of ranting a little less
I can take the “divine” intervention part of synchronicity, but I still cringe a little at the determination of the exact when…
Your notion of “out in the open” both makes perfect sense to me and irks me to no end. First because the biological baby analogy is flawed a) because a child exists before it’s born, and I’m not being some douche pro-life bint here, I mean somewhere between the moment it’s an embryo you can decide to carry out or not and a living breathing human, it’s a baby and that should matter too I think (ask a woman who’s lost a child in utero at 7 month when the head’s formed and he/she kicks, the proof pretty much is in the pudding), somehow I have always taken for granted the fact we use the birth to make someone’s chart is because we consider this is when their will comes into play for the first time, they decide to be born, not because it’s when the parents have made them. In other word, they become people, but the parents have already been parents for a while.
O and just to tease you, babies aren’t carried in the stomach lol
b) because it reduces the whole “baby”’s identity to “others” and while I’ll give you any day we’re up to at least 50% what others make of us, even if you’re some strong R&B mama chick, how others see you defines you, it’s part of the package, whether it is because it makes you some independent big mouth, or a bullied victim or just someone who’s very much loved, you are not yourself as long as you haven’t interacted with others. Otherwise you’re just some living 12th house too blurry to say “I” and know what it means (absolutely no offence here Pisces, I love you and your house); but a walking blob still is a thing and it still is reductive as all **** to reduce someone/something’s all identity to others in that respect because in your examples, you always insist on the idea of consumption too and as someone who hates money and think capitalism is the worst thing that has happened to us in a long while, the notion really bothers me.
Take my pet, I can make an “event” chart for the moment we met, I pretty much even have a decent time slot for it 😊 but that’d be reductive. He was born before that, had his own chart, why on earth should I impose a new one on him? If I follow the same logic, should I make myself a new chart the day I meet my husband? The “born the day they kiss you” is very romantic but is it really fair to carry it that far?
What about my dancing? I adore dancing but I hate performing, does that doom my dancing to never deserve being credited as one my “children” just because I keep it to myself? I don’t really mind, but it doesn’t sound fair, same for the many talented authors who can’t get published. Your notion makes sense but once propelled into reality it’s not sound enough to be fair. It’ll work every time someone looks back at it going “I wasn’t really serious about climbing until the day I enrolled in that competition”, but what about the millions of us who have passions that are very much our children but never become so “official”? Can’t they get credit too? I could actually argue it’s the very thing that makes them passions, if you compete, perform…. You may not make a living from it but you’re still taking it from hobby to pro in some form, so why reject amateur creations so harshly? Just because a “hobby” is hidden from the public doesn’t mean it’s light-hearted. You also hide what’s precious to you, what you’re most passionate about, you protect it, just like the womb protects the unborn child, already formed and loved for a while and while the biological birth is inevitable, we all know if given a choice some of us would never leave, so if that choice suddenly becomes available with our other children, why shouldn’t it be on the table? Why can’t hobbies be children? (even though I give you hobby sounds light-hearted, which is why I refer to passion )
I think it’s rough to consider anonymidarkness’ workout regime and art classes are “just” works in progress. They’re not, it takes something to commit, to go, to learn, to repeat the discipline day in and day out, to have done it long enough to say “I have a work out regime” or “I attend art classes” is already an achievement and I actually think it’s one of our problems as a society to not validate these enough. We tend to be a lot about result, but even as you aptly explained why result in itself wasn’t the matter in your approach, the fact your system cannot incorporate those 2 examples from anonymidarkness’ bothers me. It just would be a much more enticing thing if it did


I’m not saying every drawing my nephew does is his child, but people write in their diaries, it gives them solace and comfort and allows them to realise how much they grow, evolve, it nurtures them in return, and all of that is an achievement. It would be like saying you haven’t self-worked unless you’ve paid a therapist. I love therapists, but you have to give people: for some of them the achievement of overcoming trauma, becoming their selves, making their coming out…. anything; comes from their work alone, no “public” involved. And once the achievement starts begin noticed by others, it’d be close to rape to say that’s only when it gets real - of course in some cases people will self-work precisely for that, but I for example have been through lots of weight struggles due to illness and when I finally reached a weight I felt myself at, the looks of men were horrendous to me, I hadn’t done this for them, it did not belong to them, it was my achievement, me Vs illness and I still am not keen to share any of that with any man who’d think the fruit of my labour, my “child”, is for consumption. The day it all got real to me was when I weighed and it was finally moving downward, something the doctor had vowed would never happen because of my hormonal imbalance. I was still far from a summer dress then, but that’s the day I achieved. Not when the doctor waited an extra 6 months before he validated the pattern, not when someone I hadn’t seen in a while acknowledged the change, nope, it was right when nothing had changed for anyone else but me, I knew, I felt, I could see. This is when I won. The same way Buffy felt she had lost that day when she put a book back on the shelf and in a split second, she wished for Glory to have Dawn and it be over. (you just know I mean **** when I quote Buffy right? )
A biological child is meant to leave your body but your other creations aren’t bound t that biological reality so if you want o astrologically acknowledge them, shouldn’t you take that into account? (essentially repeating myself here )
So before I get both of us in a never-ending survey of cases where your approach brilliantly works and others where it gets if-ee, I think we can agree it’s a pure shade of grey situation and that’s the thing that bothers me. When you do a birth chart, it’s birth, same for everyone. But with a metaphorical child the birth gets also quite metaphorical itself and since it can be anything, I’m afraid it ceases to be relevant to an extent. But in some cases only, I’m very keen on thinking you’re onto something with the cases where there’s a date to be kept, I’ll just link it to “event” rather than “birth” charts maybe.
I’ll only nit-pick about the hour then and only because you mentioned the child’s Asc. How can you give any value to an Asc, IC…. House…. When you only really worked with a date? (unless it was one of those exception when you had a time of course 😊 )
Thanks for bearing with me ^^


I sense Virgo or a strong Mercury from this response. Lol.

All valid points.What I said is not cast in stone, it's an idea I had that "fit" when I put it on paper.

The reason I had the date(even time) for those two events mentioned was because there was planning/organizing put into them on my side.

I can write a beautiful story. Leave it in my cupboard. It's still a creation. But it won't be as impactful as the one I publish.

I think the word I am reaching for here is "impactful" on you. Not necessarily the world. As its not about them.

When you get a brilliant idea(creation) and mull it over in your mind, you get excited. You can't keep it in.

So you call up a friend and run the idea past them (not necessarily because you are seeking "approval") but because you simply can't contain your brilliance for thinking of it.

Now if this idea is really awesome( not that you haven't had others), you will want the WHOLE WORLD to hear it. Not because you want material gain, but because it is really thar brilliant in your eyes.

A candle is lit and not put under a table. People create not because of material gain(although that can be the consequence of "success") but it is not the aim

The aim is elation, a feeling of freedom , of inner brilliance and seeing oneself as a powerful creative and original force.

If a woman miscarried a child that meant the world to her( there's that world again- "world") she will mourn the baby and remember in detail the month of the miscarriage.

This especially when she is unable to conceive and carry to term again. The first disappointment lingers on in memory. True.

But should she adopt, redirect that energy of mourning to other avenues etc. She will remember the date therein too I.e " that March of whatever year,I decided to let go of the pain and adopted a puppy" etc.

Not to say the adoptipnbof the puppy replaces the grief. That will still be there. But she will remember the date where it started to "ease". Where things started to look up.

A puppies existence is separate from you.True. But it doesn't come into your point of focus and attention until it moves to the the proverbial 1st house of "in your possession". That date is important. It's when you created a new reality for it.

The date of meeting your husband is important only in as far as it holds "impactful" significance to you.

A woman may say " I met my husband when I was interviewing for my first job". She will remember the date, what she was wearing, what he was wearing etc. Especially if this was a "love at first sight" thing.

If the 1st kiss was impactful or had some kind of poetic meaning. You will remember that tbh.Perhaps it was at your fav restaurant or it marked some special milestone etc.

The gist here is that the "creation" date or "birth" date holds some powerful emotional significance. That's why we remember things(whether "good" or "bad")

Some creations have trauma therein. Typically there is Mars/Pluto/ Uranus involved.So the feelings associated with those creations are not great or depressing etc. But we still recall.

My sister remembers both dates of when she miscarried. They linger on in memory. But when she has her 1st child, that too will be very significant (for differing reasons).

It depends on what is impactful to you as an individual. Not every creation has a strong emotional impact. There are "duds" you create and throw away without much attachment.

But heightened (10th) emotions (Moon) is needed for the 5th house event. To me that would be getting a degree or publishing a book. To another person, that would be selling their first piece of art at a profit. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Whatever the event, it is a creation that is associated with the 5th because it is something you nursed and put all your creative energy and focus on.

Even at work, we have "creations". Certain projects that we enjoyed and had immense fun in doing. We remember those as well as those that put our creative abilities to the rest.

I just chose to speak of "hobbies" here because I was reaching for doing something that you "enjoy" or investing energy in something that you believe speaks of and through YOU. That is 5th and "creation".

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Randall
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posted April 01, 2020 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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Kannon McAfee
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posted April 01, 2020 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
... The issue I have is that I meet clients that are NOT self aware 🤷🏾‍♂️ And this is crucial in consulting & chart reading...

... How do you deal with such clients?


With patience, expanded understanding, better listening and more finely tuned intuition. Everyone is just where they are at the moment.

It makes being a practicing astrologer more a challenge than doing readings for fun, doesn't it?

------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification

The birth chart is a starting place not a pre-determiner of fate.

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Aries23Degrees
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posted April 02, 2020 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aries23Degrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
With patience, expanded understanding, better listening and more finely tuned intuition. Everyone is just where they are at the moment.

It makes being a practicing astrologer more a challenge than doing readings for fun, doesn't it?


Truly frustrating at times. And it's like you can feed and elaborate on information that is relevant to a question. Only to have the client ask the exact same question(put differently) 10 minutes later.

One client I had has Pisces/Nep energy over her whole chart. But it's very emphasized in the house of projections/ relationships(7th).

And as I sat with her over Skype.I worried our interaction would be frought with confusion. Not because of signal issues but because of Neptune sqauring the ruler of the 7th Jupiter very tightly.

The interview already started with her being lukewarm.I kept on trying to evoke in her more dialogue & asking questions.I made notes and used examples. Allowed her to talk etc.

She kept on asking why she attracts so much chaos in relationships? I broke the question down further and explored what was on the chart for a while.

When her eyes lit and body language changed,I was convinced we were finally heading somewhere.

Then after I thought I had finally clarified some issues and opened up more to ponder within her etc.Just as she and I were closing off she says;"But why do I have chaotic men around me?". 🙆🏾‍♂️

I felt like I could take a knife, slit my wrists and end it all right there.# Death by consultation 😥

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Moonbeth
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posted April 09, 2020 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Haha, you don’t just “sense” Virgo, we have talked about my massive Sun in that old Moon-Pluto thread 😊

I see what you mean and again, you too make seriously valid points, just that rrrrrr thingee that irks and hurts me It’s a cursor we don’t place the same way.
You’d compare having written a story and kept it in a drawer to a child in the womb, un-so-real yet because unborn, literally not born yet to the world…
I would compare that to your idea of a story or a few chapters, but a completed story, even unpublished, still is done.
Otherwise it’s as if you tell me that popping a child out isn’t enough to have a baby, that child has to lead an impactful life for them to just be and that’s bloody wrong, right?
So, I do get what you say, all theory experimentation included, let’s just say it’s too anchored in “social norms” for me to relate.
For example, my bullying history makes me so careful and cautious my first instinct when I produce something I’m happy with/proud of, is actually to hide it, NOT share it with others and show it. It can’t be just me, I’m not that unique, but if I follow your idea, it means no CPTSD sufferer can ever produce a “child” and that’s tough because I like to think that what I do out of a pure need for creative expression is far more important and consistent than what I do creatively out of a need for expression (if you catch the difference I fabricate here 😉 )

If someone said they’re going to: write a book, lose 10 pounds, learn a language… fair enough that’s not a child yet, it doesn’t ‘deserve’ a chart, but if someone attends classes long enough to introduce themselves and have a Cambridge KET level conversation, loses 5 pounds or writes a whole unpublished book, the impact is there, the fact its range has less magnitude because it’s not reflected by a similar, bigger or lesser impact on others does not make it not impactful, just more or less.
So, yep, I do think taking that variable into account would make your theory a bit sexier in my eyes 😊

It’s brilliant you used all those very 5th house terms because my moon’s in the 5th and I’m a Leo rising and Venus so it spoke to me! Lol and honestly, when I create the brilliance is happiest when contained. Not with all my creations I give you that, some things I do at work I’m eager to run through co-workers but it’s mostly because I lack confidence and when I spend so much time instinctively putting myself down, I feel I need to show when I get something right so my doubts don’t cost me the job by making my boss and team think I can’t do sod lol
Freedom to me comes a lot of times from the very emancipation of having to run things by others, not having any opinion, or feedback, good or bad, on what I’ve done, is one of the few ways I have to really appreciate certain things.

If the creation has an impact on its author, boom, it is born, as you say it’s not about success or fame or scale, it’s about impact and if losing those 5 pounds or fat makes me feel like a queen but nobody else sees the weight loss cause I hide it in oversize wear, it’s not less impactful, especially since my well-being may end up show up in other ways that others ill notice, but it won’t be linked to the weight loss to them, so they won’t be able to trace it, name it and it will still be my child, not theirs. If I write a book and it just gives me more faith in myself, that could be, might be, felt, in time, by others to an extent, but its primary impact is on myself, it’s how it exists.

Same with dates, I lived a lot of happy and terrible things and cannot remember the dates to save my life, I can trace a lot because I have medical records… but don’t ask my memory to give a direct access to something we both have worked hand in hand burying. I also have no idea when was that moment I found a pet that was my entire world (world 😉 ) and yet I remember every second of that first encounter, I remember smells, feeling textures, sounds… way better than I remember visuals or factual things such as a date. I’m seriously awful with it, once I was asked what someone wore the last time I saw them and I was perfectly unable to answer because I basically submitted my brain one proposition and considered it, repeated, and they all fitted, I could imagine that person wearing a variety of clothing in a variety of colours lol

I’m a chore, but I can’t be the only one, yet, I too have children of my own 😊

But…. But…. If someone is special enough for you to marry them, then when you meet them is important, isn’t it? I’d tend to say whether you remember it or not, it’s still important.

I completely see the degree of emotional attachment, my point precisely is that this is what matters and that a high degree of attachment does not necessarily imply an audience, therefore you may have “children” that mean the world to you and remain unknown to the public. Just like those miscarried babies are babies the world never met.

Hmmm, my 5th house moon is square Pluto so by now I just have accepted that “intense” is my go-to, it’s like food, I call it tasty people say it’s a fiery chili chasm, so, I cannot, for my health, sanity and the world’s, act on every intense emotion I feel, and subsequently, feeling that much won’t ever be reason to particularly act on anything, because how would I decide that dropping everything to write that story I’m obsessing with is more valid than plotting the demise of that bloke who betrayed me as a creative project? Especially if the story is that of the murder fantasy I nurture about him
See my point, I just feel there is something somehow easy about what you’ve “set”, that people will remember, and people will want to tell others, and people will…. And I won’t, and again, I’m a chore, I know, but as weird as I am, I am not unique, not in the exceptional special kind of way, so, while I cannot find the compromise (because I do hear that for probably 99% of people all you say goes) something rubs and goes “yeah, but…”
…but maybe, I’m just that much of a Virgo 😊


Oh and about what you talked about with Kannon, that I know (at least for myself) from experience: you cannot decide to help.
That’s where a form of altruism exists. You do your best, use skills, life experience, pure heart, whatever, and you put it out there, give or sell you time for it, doesn’t matter, but you put it out there and can only hope the man makes it gold. Sometimes he will, sometimes he’ll make it rubbish, sometimes even worse, you’ll hurt the one you tried to help, and that’s the price to pay.
As glorious as the well-being and sometimes pride of having helped someone is, its beauty is that it’s not science, even when you expose yourself to it regularly by being a doctor, therapist, teacher, carer… you cannot decide to help, only try. If you find it frustrating it’s normal I guess, but how you react to it I think is what separates great therapists, counsellors…. from those who do that for unhealthy reasons (even with angelic intentions). If you want to help, if you need to help, 9/10 it’s the wrong motivation and you should do something else. If you just try, for better for worse with nothing but faith and hope it could help, you’re on a better track. Helping isn’t a choice or an act you perform, it’s a calling 😊

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