posted September 21, 2021 12:26 PM            

The first chart is my natal using the time of birth on my birth certificate.

The second chart is using my rectified birth time.

I’m not sure which one is more accurate. I thought perhaps this experiment could show which TOB is more likely to be accurate by which chart more closely shows the death of my father, which was a huge devastation for me.

Chart with TOB on birth certificate:

Chart with rectified TOB

posted September 23, 2021 11:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
What age did this happen?

---

posted September 23, 2021 01:12 PM            

Death of a Father has a powerful impact.
Sorry for your loss, Monte.

The TOB chart had transiting Mars cross his IC. Of any other amazing conjunctions, the Mars might have acted as 'the knife' that could have been involved freeing soul from body.

Aug 16, 1987 There was a Global Peace Meditation held during the *Harmonic Convergence* going on for the day he was born.

- http://dbpedia.org/page/Harmonic_Convergence

Jupiter is known to be involved in death charts.

Departure: Looks like there were transiting fire trines energizing your Father's strong fire trines, as he left his earth body.

I'd just received a piece of mail from the "Neptune Society" (funeral planners). First thing I noticed was how transiting Venus was conjunct his Neptune... How Beautiful. This is a transit of "surrender", and Love for those who are near.

Transiting Venus (on Neptune) was also in sextile with transiting Neptune in Pisces towards the end of your Father's 4th House (also the house known as end-of-life).
Resting from his labors.

(topic) Almanac: The Harmonic Convergence
(CBS Sunday Morning)
[2:06] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGfnae5kwsQ

YT Notes: August 16, 1987, marked a global celebration heralding a rare alignment of the planets. Lee Cowan reports.

posted September 23, 2021 01:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MonteCristo:
I was 27 when he died.

---

oops... Those are your charts?
Well, there was a Harmonic Convergence on the day you were born.

Signing off here.
Missed that! Definitely needing to take a break..

posted September 23, 2021 07:05 PM            

Thank you.

Yes, those are my charts. And I think your interpretations can still apply even to me. Losing someone so close to you feels like a death to yourself anyway.

posted September 23, 2021 08:20 PM            

I have never loved nor admired someone so much in my life. Towards the end he told people I was a soulmate. He was just the most amazing person I’ve ever met.

I feel so lucky to have been given the greatest gift of being his daughter in this life. I must’ve done something wonderful in my past life to deserve this.

He was a formidable man, a force. Many people were intimidated by his mere presence. He was a genius, a scholar, but within he had the softest, kindest, most empathetic heart I have ever known. His heart would shatter at the sight of someone’s misfortune, or of a kitten meowing, or at an emotional movie scene. He felt everything so deeply. Everything was very heightened for him.

No matter what happens on my journey it is such a comfort knowing his mind and soul and power still protect me to this day. Just even the fact of knowing that I come from him gives me such solidarity of purpose and it’s like a fortress around me. I’m protected and freed and empowered all at the same time. He truly understood me to the core. You don’t get many people like that in life.

We had a very deep understanding, a great friendship within the context of father/daughter, playfulness, teaching, and his authority and genius guide me even still after his passing.

posted September 23, 2021 10:05 PM            

Hi MonteCristo, thank you for sharing that, and I don't doubt that he is still very much involved with guiding you from the nonphysical. It sounds like you and he may be twin souls. People get caught up in the romance part of twin souls, but my partner and I have been each others parents at least a few times that we know of (especially in the larger Spirit sense of other Souls that along with us are part of a larger self). I know it may sound weird or the like, but it does happen, and is more common than people may think.

Anyways, based on what you said, I think that it is likely that the 2nd, rectified chart is relatively more accurate, since it has T. Uranus and South Node conjoining the Desc.

Uranus is that of the extremes, of very low lows and high highs and Desc* is that of close and/or deeply affecting relationships. While I doubt there was much obvious highs involved at the time, it may have been a spiritual catalyst for you in some ways (T. Jupiter being involved also points to this). Often times the death of a very close loved one does act as a change and growth catalyst. (I know it did in my case, after my Mom's body died).

South Node also being involved can indicate sadness, past patterns returning, etc.

*Clearly you had a 7th House type connection with each other i.e. particularly close/affecting.

P.S., while it is not a popular opinion, I actually see Uranus as a co-ruler of Capricorn, and so it is especially apropos that a ruler of the IC was conjoining the Desc at the time.

posted September 23, 2021 11:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MonteCristo:
. .

I have never loved nor admired someone so much in my life. Towards the end he told people I was a soulmate. He was just the most amazing person I’ve ever met.

I feel so lucky to have been given the greatest gift of being his daughter in this life. I must’ve done something wonderful in my past life to deserve this.

He was a formidable man, a force. Many people were intimidated by his mere presence. He was a genius, a scholar, but within he had the softest, kindest, most empathetic heart I have ever known. His heart would shatter at the sight of someone’s misfortune, or of a kitten meowing, or at an emotional movie scene. He felt everything so deeply. Everything was very heightened for him.

No matter what happens on my journey it is such a comfort knowing his mind and soul and power still protect me to this day. Just even the fact of knowing that I come from him gives me such solidarity of purpose and it’s like a fortress around me. I’m protected and freed and empowered all at the same time. He truly understood me to the core. You don’t get many people like that in life.

We had a very deep understanding, a great friendship within the context of father/daughter, playfulness, teaching, and his authority and genius guide me even still after his passing.

---

Such Love!! So beautiful...

If you own a paper ephemeris, on the day of your Father's departing, December 14, 2014, go back and look at the page for month of December, and November.

Jupiter and Uranus were both holding still in the sky... in retrograde

Transiting JUPITER
.. called the 'guru' - your Father
December is Father/Spirit of Christmas

Jupiter had stationed retrograde 22.37 --
.. conjunct YOUR SUN Leo 22.56.
.
In your 10th House {representing role of your father}
t Jupiter conjunct Sun EXACT
.
Jupiter-Sun occurs once every 12 years!
quote
"something positive might be happening in the life of important male or authority figures in your life. (father, boss, husband, boyfriend)."
ref.
- http://www.astrolada.com/transits/jupiter-conjunct-sun.html

NATAL
Sun Leo 22.56 conjuncts Venus 21.03 > 10th
quote
"Sun conjunct Venus natal" is the personification of love, peace, and beauty. You are an affectionate and refined person with a rich social life who loves entertaining and amusements.
You are a lover, not a fighter, and dislike threatening or ugly people and environments.
People are attracted to you because of your genuine lovely nature.
.
Beauty comes not only on the outside--
but also inside as compassion, sympathy, and a strong belief in unity and unconditional love.
You do appreciate beauty so your personal appearance and that of your home and loved ones are important to you."
- http://astrologyking.com/sun-conjunct-venus/

(music)

`natal LEO H10 leo 4.26 MC
Mercury 13.49
VENUS 21.02
SUN 22.56
Mars 25.52
___________
transit
Jupiter stationing rx 22.35
22 deg from Nov 19
22 deg on Dec 8 RETRO hold
22.35 on Day of death Dec 14, 2014
remains 22 deg till Dec 29 in rx

`
TRINE H7 aries cusp 24.50
Jupiter 29.42
trine natal Uranus AND transit Sun-Mercury
in sign of Sagittarius
in H2 scorpio cusp 20.24

`
IN THE H6 aries (cusp 5.11 Aries) TO 24.24'50 Aries--
is
transiting Uranus 12.35 station retrograde
Uranus steady-rx 12+ station-direct Sunday Dec 21, 2014
with
transiting South Node Aries 16.49 d H6
. t SN + Uranus rx sta dir
. t NN in H12 Libra, t SN in H6 Aries

`
TRINE to sign Sagittarius in H2 scorp
Saturn rx 14.32
Uranus rx 22.50
___________
transit
t SUN 21.54 .. later 22.++
transit Mercury 25.00+
. t Sun-Mercury Sag to Sat-Uran
___________
transit
t Uranus rx Aries 12.35 trine
na Saturn rx Sag 14.32
.
t Uranus rx 12+ Aries square t Pluto 12+ Cap

`
natal Neptune 3rd house rx 5.29 Capricorn
___
transit Venus 4.09 Capricorn
. t Venus - Neptune {soulmate }

MonteCristo,
Your CHART, and the TRANSITS that day
are BOTH Phenomenal/ Surreal.
You're very special, do you know that?
Your Father did!

CLEAR message... Jupiter on Sun and Venus
Venus on Neptune

'Saturn' represents 'the Father' also.
Around 8 days before his death on Dec 14,
you had a FULL MOON Gemini 14.18 in your 8th,
across from
FM SUN 14.18 Sag conjunct your Saturn 14.32 Sag

Sun is father, Saturn is father

YourBirth Certificate TOB
has your Ascendant Libra 24.24'50"
Lucky Star Spica conjuncts your Ascendant

___
computer is starting to act up!!
keyboard not working corruectly.. oh no LOL

I think your Birth Certificate shows its relevance through transting MARS ccrossing IC,
and that the transiting Sout h node in your 12th is a place of 'ancesteors' .. as well as the IC.

Transiting Neptune 5.001 at the end of your 4th house sextieled your natal Neptune 5.29 wand transiting Venus --- Beeautiiful!!

posted September 24, 2021 10:28 AM            

Thank you so much for the in depth look. You know more than I can ever hope to about astrology.

If t Jupiter was conjunct my sun in 10th, and t Venus was conjunct my Neptune in 3rd, and those are such beautiful and positive transits, how could such a dark time in my life ensue? Literally after his death I went down a dark hole. I quit my job, my sweetheart a few months later began to stray—with multiple other women. Then my grandmother (my dads mom) passed, not even a year after him. It was a time of such uncertainty and pain. However, I do see that as a catalyst towards my spiritual journey. A few years later, I even enrolled in university for the first time to pursue knowledge and any wisdom and truth that I can unveil. My dad was a professor, I know he would’ve been really excited about that. I’m even going for my Masters next year

What’s interesting is that my father was a Capricorn, so his natal sun, mercury, and north node are conjunct my Neptune in third house. His natal Pluto was also conjunct my personal planets in the 10th house.

I also find it interesting that as close as we were, I haven’t gotten distinct messages from him. I do see signs here and there that I think are obviously from him, but then I doubt whether I’m just forcing connections to signs that don’t have any real meaning. And there was one time where I dreamt so vividly that he was alive, that when I awoke I still thought it to be real, that he was here. It’s such a disappointment when you come to your senses and realize which reality you’re really in at the moment!

posted September 24, 2021 11:39 AM            

With Neptune there is the ADDED Idealization of the Other (Each Other).

She who FEELS the Love with Such Sensitivity---
would also sense deeper Pain as it comes in this world.

So glad you shared your Chart,
and your Parting from someone so close to your Soul.

DEATH is so freakin' sad!!, in 'this' side of the veil.

There's been just TOO MUCH of it in Our World. SOOOO many people losing their Loved Ones. (covid). So many other kinds of losses too, leading to anguish and much suffering.

BECAUSE of your sensitivity you might feel the brunt of your losses. Sorry for the loss of your paternal grandmother too.

I'm an older person.
I've had many who were close to me, die.
Strange feeling when (like you) you lose your Father, your Grandmother. It's like death took a piece of you, too.

Do you have body-piercings?
Earlobes?
Notice that if you don't fill the holes (with jewelry) that 'those holes' NEVER close up. They heal the 'rim' around the 'hole', but the hole is there until you give up your earthsuit.

Losing people you love, is kind of like having HAD a piercing... But this kind of piercing was in your Heart. Left a hole that heals around itself eventually, but you never forget them.

Much Love to you

Your username..
I know common things that it refers to.

But as I look at it from another angle,
'monte' in other language means 'to show' or 'to climb' , to mount.
Cristo .. is another word for Christ. Christ Consciousness.
In that Light, you Climb, you Ascend, towards a Higher Light.

And yes!! People were calling-in Peace, Harmony in All, WHILE you took your first Breaths of Life on this planet.

May you find Strength ..
The ones you've lost are still there,
cheering you on from the heavenly 'Cloud of Witnesses'.

(music) God Be In My Head
(John Rutter, perf by Chingford Parish Nov 2020, lyrics)
[1:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gvL4CmRY0k

ADD
As far as the astrology that I 'know'---
I've been delving into it for at least a decade.
WITH applied TIME and dedication, you will get to know it too-- like breath.
I have a lot of things missing from my knowledge. Don't have software, never could afford classes, and must deal with INCREDIBLE interruptions where I've been living this past decade of interest.
This place has been slowly slowly making my body sick.. and I had no connections or support here. Couldn't relocate~~ no funds, no real life friends. Wound up being a big sucking hole that stole from me.
And it sucks when you don't have money... LOL
but even more, when you don't have 'life' support.

posted September 24, 2021 02:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MonteCristo:
I was 27 when he died.

---

posted September 24, 2021 02:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
Aries23 .. I used my ephemeris--- Traced his birth back to Sunday 16 August 1987, or on late Saturday 15 August.

---

posted September 24, 2021 02:58 PM            

Uranus arcs to conj 20 Ic at age 28 though. Not 27.

posted September 24, 2021 07:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Galactic,

That’s interesting—I know we incarnate in groups, but it’s a weird thought to think that you were once a parent to your lover, or vice versa. But yes I’m sure it’s possible.
And it’s also interesting that you say my father and I had a 7th house connection. I never thought of it that way. I thought more 10th house connection for sure. His natal Pluto is there conjunct all my personal planets. I wish I knew his birth time!

---

Sounds like a combo 4th, 7th, and 10th connection primarily. 7th House is not just about marriage and close and long term romantic connections, it's about any particularly close and/or strongly affecting relationship--including even open enemies.

That your Dad was a Cap Sun definitely makes me think that the rectified chart is more accurate since it has Cap IC. One person's IC to another's Sun, is a fairly significant connection in and of itself, especially in a parental sense.

Tbh, I might even move your Asc back a couple degrees. Aries23Degrees (good catch) noted that T. Pluto was square your Asc. If your Asc was like 12 degrees, then both T. Pluto, Uranus, and SN/NN would have been very closely involved with your Asc all at the same time, and that definitely makes sense. Not that events "have" to happen when T. Planets are exactly or near exactly in aspect to the Asc etc. There is often a orb range of around +/- 3 degrees, so it's possible that the rectified chart as is, is fairly accurate.

posted September 24, 2021 11:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosionV2:
Tbh, I might even move your Asc back a couple degrees. Aries23Degrees (good catch) noted that T. Pluto was square your Asc. If your Asc was like 12 degrees, then both T. Pluto, Uranus, and SN/NN would have been very closely involved with your Asc all at the same time, and that definitely makes sense. Not that events "have" to happen when T. Planets are exactly or near exactly in aspect to the Asc etc. There is often a orb range of around +/- 3 degrees, so it's possible that the rectified chart as is, is fairly accurate.

---

My thoughts exactly. I was thinking around 11/12 Lib Asc.

But then again, there is that Mercury which conjuncts both Sun(the father) and Venus (admiration). So perhaps the rectified tob is correct as is?💁🏿‍♂️

Mercury rules the 12th house of "loss". Solar arc Mc/Ic 20 would arc to conjunct it at age 28(not 27 though). This would signify a sort of "wipe out"/difficult time dealing with the loss. Mercury also rules the 9th (teacher/knowledgeable sage).

My thinking is that Mercury has a "domino" effect as a result of its conjunction to Sun and Venus? So Mercury is exalted in importance by sokar arc progression because of this powerful association.

We have Sun ruling & in the 11th house of friendships. From what it sounds, Dad was like a "best friend"? Add to that, Venus rules the 8th house of death as well as the 1st house of self. Dad's death (8th) impacted the chart owner(1st house) in a profound way.

Jupiter in 7th would be the 'soul mate' thing. Jupiter rules the 3rd house and 6th house respectively (very intellectual houses).

With Saturn in Sag 14 arcing to conjunct the Ic 20 Cap at age 36, i would say that year 2023/24 is significant. Saturn rules the 4th and 5th. So my thinking is that (if the rectified TOB is correct) these areas of life should be affected.

posted September 25, 2021 09:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
The rectified chart is so visceral 😮

---

Really?

I’m having a hard time figuring out which one fits better. The TOB chart puts Saturn and Uranus in 2nd house, and judging by the state of my finances for the past 15 years that seems pretty accurate lol.

But in the rectified chart, Saturn and Uranus are in 3rd with Neptune. It’s interesting because I say outlandish things, and my mind is quicker than my speech can handle lol. And academically, I write very well, perhaps even exceptionally. However, if you were to ask me a question on the spot, my mind literally can go blank and I’ll sound as though I’ve never uttered a word in public in my life lol. It’s the weirdest thing. Maybe only I notice it, but I feel SO DUMB sometimes when trying to explain my ideas or thoughts. Not all the time, though.

One thing I don’t like about the rectified chart is that it puts Pluto into my 2nd house, and I believe it very much belongs in the 1st, judging by how things have evolved in my life.

I thought figuring out which chart best showed the life changing event of my fathers death (there’s a pun in there somewhere), I could get a better idea of which is more accurate.

posted September 25, 2021 09:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosionV2:
On some level what you said Aries23Degrees made sense but at the same time, I'm really f'ing high right now and have no idea what you're saying. (random shrooms encounter).

(Kids, don't do drugs, they're "bad" mmmkay!)

---

posted September 25, 2021 10:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking around 11/12 Lib Asc.

But then again, there is that Mercury which conjuncts both Sun(the father) and Venus (admiration). So perhaps the rectified tob is correct as is?💁🏿‍♂️

Mercury rules the 12th house of "loss". Solar arc Mc/Ic 20 would arc to conjunct it at age 28(not 27 though). This would signify a sort of "wipe out"/difficult time dealing with the loss. Mercury also rules the 9th (teacher/knowledgeable sage).

My thinking is that Mercury has a "domino" effect as a result of its conjunction to Sun and Venus? So Mercury is exalted in importance by sokar arc progression because of this powerful association.

We have Sun ruling & in the 11th house of friendships. From what it sounds, Dad was like a "best friend"? Add to that, Venus rules the 8th house of death as well as the 1st house of self. Dad's death (8th) impacted the chart owner(1st house) in a profound way.

Jupiter in 7th would be the 'soul mate' thing. Jupiter rules the 3rd house and 6th house respectively (very intellectual houses).

With Saturn in Sag 14 arcing to conjunct the Ic 20 Cap at age 36, i would say that year 2023/24 is significant. Saturn rules the 4th and 5th. So my thinking is that (if the rectified TOB is correct) these areas of life should be affected.

What happened at age 30 when solar arc Saturn arced to square the Asc/Dsc axis? Something to do with the 3rd,4th and 5th house issues?

---

Aries,

Father was more of a mentor figure. Yes, he was a “best friend” but there was still that fatherly distance and authority that trumped any sort of friendship. We did get along very well though and argued maybe a handful of times. We just understood one another.

2023/2024–if things go as planned, I’ll be getting my masters in 2024. And hopefully meeting someone I love and getting married lol. I’ve also been trying to move out of state for like 4 years but something has always gotten in the way! Perhaps for the best, who knows.

When I was 30....the most significant thing I can think of is it was the first time I ever seriously considered going to university. I almost applied to a college out of state where I wanted to move, but somehow, with a stroke of fate, I ended up applying at the university I’m at now and I’m so grateful to be enrolled there. It’s tiny but top notch. I applied in June of 2018, and got accepted in august. Then turned 31 two days before classes started.

Also, within the timeframe of my father passing until now I’ve had very turbulent relationships. I mentioned somewhere above that I was in a serious relationship when my father passed, and then about a year later I broke up with him. It was a terrible year lol. We got back together for a short while in 2017, and then again in the fall of 2018 until April 2020. Then all of a sudden one day it was like a flipped switch. I was completely done. No more “idealizing”. And it felt AMAZING. He’s still trying to get me to marry him but I never will. Done with that chapter. There was one other very significant relationship from October 2020-January 2021 (he’d been in love since 2018 but I was not available). Anyway, this was perhaps the most amazing, then crushing, and then Phoenix-rising effect on the soul I have ever experienced.

posted September 25, 2021 12:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosionV2:
On some level what you said Aries23Degrees made sense but at the same time, I'm really f'ing high right now and have no idea what you're saying. (random shrooms encounter).

(Kids, don't do drugs, they're "bad" mmmkay!)

---

posted September 25, 2021 12:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Really?

I’m having a hard time figuring out which one fits better. The TOB chart puts Saturn and Uranus in 2nd house, and judging by the state of my finances for the past 15 years that seems pretty accurate lol.

But in the rectified chart, Saturn and Uranus are in 3rd with Neptune. It’s interesting because I say outlandish things, and my mind is quicker than my speech can handle lol. And academically, I write very well, perhaps even exceptionally. However, if you were to ask me a question on the spot, my mind literally can go blank and I’ll sound as though I’ve never uttered a word in public in my life lol. It’s the weirdest thing. Maybe only I notice it, but I feel SO DUMB sometimes when trying to explain my ideas or thoughts. Not all the time, though.

One thing I don’t like about the rectified chart is that it puts Pluto into my 2nd house, and I believe it very much belongs in the 1st, judging by how things have evolved in my life.

I thought figuring out which chart best showed the life changing event of my fathers death (there’s a pun in there somewhere), I could get a better idea of which is more accurate.

---

Trust your gut.Perhaps there is one placement in your chart that is difficult to refute? This is the case with mine. Then work aorund that. And take your time with it-watching for transits.

What is the one placement that you KNOW instinctively is you and is consistent each time i.e there is no doubt there?