posted April 30, 2023 12:05 PM            

the fact that you're trying find flaws in others could be your virgo stuff (which does make an aspect to your pluto)

your 5th house is ruled by sag and sag has a tendency towards thinking big and they can fantasise about fighting and getting even in a larger than life kinda way...so all these revenge things u do in your free time could be sag getting a little lost in the fantasy...

posted May 01, 2023 11:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sherriontop:
I think it's funny though how you keep ignoring the fact that many people here have showed you how Pluto does take a strong position in your chart.

You didn't answer my question about how your south node in gemini in the anaretic degree plays out, but based on your reaction I think it means you're rather narrow minded and stubborn in your point of view (no offense) as this can be an issue with Gemini. Finding pleasure in a new life philosophy/ point of view may make you happier than spending more time on thinking how to get even with people as it may be an endless pursuit.

I'd also be interested in seeing where Pholus, Lilith and Hybris are placed in your chart...

BTW I just did a quick google search on Sun conjunct Chiron and you may have underestimated this aspect as I see a lot that resonates in the description with how you described yourself:

"When you are born with the Sun conjunct Chiron, it’s like your personal calling in life is to confront and heal pain.

The pain in question can be physical or emotional, as well as self-inflicted or handed to you by others.

Sun conjunct Chiron means that together the Sun and Chiron are enhancing the personality with a higher sense of purpose and a great desire to help others, sometimes giving the sense that he or she is “on a mission from God.” The person’s ego has been transformed into one of service.
..
This placement can give you a very strong sense of purpose for why you are on the planet at this time.

The desire to help others with their own issues may be strong because you have a knack for finding their weak spots. That said, your mission could be to just listen or guide them in a certain direction rather than fix everything for them."

Sun conjunct Chiron also gives you a great sense of self-sufficiency and independance with heightened sensitivity to the needs of others. Your success is easily achievable.

You may feel that you need to compensate for inner wounds through shining even brighter and being a healer for others.
You identify more with your own ambition and intuition and as a result you can be happy even without intimate connections. You don't rely on others for approval but you have no problems socializing in an ordinary way.

Sun conjunct Chiron represents the instinct of the human spirit to manifest itself and leave something immaterial behind. Our spirit seeking manifestation represents our “gift to the world”.

Sun conjunct Chiron is the compelling drive to push beyond your existing boundaries to find your true zone of genius.

It can also make you identify with some type of shaman role. The shaman’s role is to travel to hell, to heaven, and then back to earth.

Chiron is the connecting link between the conscious archetypes represented by the planets visible to the naked eye (all planets up to Saturn), and the unconscious aspects represented by Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

Chiron orbits between Saturn and Uranus and brings together these two worlds, connecting us with the whole universe.

I thought it was fitting with you saying you sometimes think God put you on this earth to correct or punish the wrongs of people, you finding people's weak spots and feeling very independent and successful...

And considering that this aspect is also conjunct Mercury and your South Node is ruled by Mercury, it may make you more calculated and less sensitive/ emotionally involved than some other people with this Chironic placement.

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posted May 01, 2023 11:45 AM            

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Originally posted by aah08:
I think it's easier. You don't really have to look that much into it.

The way you speak, write and express screams Pluto to me. Not only as a previous user said you have Moon parallel pluto 3° south but Pluto conjunct your IC its another type of moon/pluto energy to me since IC is the cusp of the 4th house which has natural cancer (moon) energy.

Pluto its in its own sign too, thats more power to it.

Pluto is also square Saturn, I think in the example you post about getting people fired without anyone knowing and other experiences in your life made you aware of the power you have when facing your demons and your dark side and of course, you low key feel afraid to it.
Because I feel on the inside you are a good person who comes from a deeply hard background and is aware of how evil someone can be and the damage you can cause to people, and so when you realize your own power, of course you dont want to cause the same pain, so its two sides, for once you are proud of how powerful you can be, and think but you dont want to be as the people in your childhood nor want to cause the same suffering.

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posted May 01, 2023 11:51 AM            

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

I wouldn't try to pin that ability for strategy and delicate, behind-the-scenes manipulation on any one thing in your birth chart. And I'm using 'manipulation' here in a very positive sense. Well done.

You have a pretty strong Sun, Saturn, and Mars (in that order). The strength of Saturn in your chart is one of the highest I've seen. It shows experience with wisdom for you to tap into (not just ambition as Saturn tends to be interpreted in the west). That helps you with the delicate control that Moon in Virgo can feel out with its attention to detail.

One of the benefits of Moon aspects with Pluto like the parallel is that you can keep secrets and focus your internal energy with great concentration. Pluto in Scorpio in such a pivotal place in your chart helps with subterfuge and strategies behind the scenes. So the example you gave at work is one of a positive application of those potentials. The negative ones relate to jealousy, unhealthy fixations or passions, suspicion of others, etc.

Pluto is power — total consciousness — the god self. It's process is transformation because so long as we are stuck in the human (animal-biological) way of thinking we cannot realize what we've got inside us. Pluto / Hades correlates to Shiva in Hinduism, but destruction is only a part of the process (especially when we resist from egoism).

Because Pluto is power, there are many mentions and admonishments in the astrological literature and interpretive sources about domination, abuse, etc, as unhealthy expressions of it from human ego. The myth of Pluto involved kidnapping/rape as part of the progression of Pluto out of dominance as an underworld monarch into a place of sharing power. All power is shared.

Pluto belongs under the horizon. That is where it can best use its power: from an 'underworld' or hidden position. Up high in the chart, it tends to turbo charge ambition and a desire to change the world or dominate groups of people and the resources associated with them. It is a less natural way for Pluto to function because it would seem to become more a Martial-like force.

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Since I suck so much with quoting lol.

1. I do think Saturn was playing a role but not a positive one given that it opposes all of my key inner planets. In fact, I think it has had a say with me being a late bloomer in life as well but also not being quick to act to get myself into trouble. I am curious to see how Saturn is so strong in my chart though.

2. I feel like Mars makes no contacts or major aspects to anything in my chart.

3. So in that case, is Pluto more under the horizon or up high in my chart?

posted May 01, 2023 11:52 AM            

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Originally posted by Fromashell:
Did you ever notice you have a square from the Black Moon to your Pluto. This would make any plutonic expression come natural to you. These link up with Nessus as well, great for setting boundaries as Nessus moves between Saturn and Pluto. One has to be careful with that knife of Nessus though, so it is not misdirected.

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posted May 01, 2023 11:55 AM            

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Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
This need to "right wrong" or "setting people straight" is tied up with the illusion of control and the need to have things go in the way that you approve of.

To do all that takes energy (Mars). To plot revenge and vengeance, is energy (Mars). To get emotional and reactionary to a slight or rebuff, is energy (Mars). To start a fight/ respond to a quarrel with another person, is energy (Mars). To struggle to find peace (as peace is about letting go and being resolved to the idea that things are really out of your hands) means you are still invested in controlling the outcome and are not convinced that there is someone else in charge outside of yourself. Thats energy (Mars).

I stand by what I said, to me you come across Martial (Mars). Always have. And the debate around you is usually Martial i.e., people trying to figure out why you would say the things you say or are so offensive in your view -and yet still maintaining that you are only telling the "truth" and being "objective".

On my side, I realized that after seeing that you have Mars in Gem, I am now better able to understand and see that your rants are likely passing discomforts that you wish to express in the NOW. That they are not forever.

I have a sister with Mars in Gemini. She is always changing her mind about what she will get angry at. But one thing for sure (much like you), she also has Sun/Moon midpoint= Mars and Mercury/Moon midpoint=Mars and is passionate about whatever subject tickles her fancy on that day.

That subject will preoccupy her until she is bored of it and moves to another thing that she finds "upsetting". Then rally people around her to be as reactionary to it as she is etc. before abandoning that subject matter too. With her, I have learned that its NEVER that deep.

As a family, we used to react and be concerned. But now we have become impassive because (quite frankly) it's exhausting to go through the back/forths she can put us through with her passionate (and fleeting) feelings. 🤷‍♂️

I don't know your place of birth, but I guessed the date as to likely to be between the 1st to 2nd August 1992. With this date and your stated positions, Mars is on your Sun/Moon midpoint and Mercury/Moon midpoint. Very seldom do things come out of your mouth or your way of external expression, without them being sharp/ passionate (Mars)

Sun rules your Asc and is part of the Mars midpoint connection. Look at your current posts i.e.[b] "I just want to say f** April 2023 so far". And then look at the things you wrote? YOU are the Firestarter and then somehow find a way to blame others for reacting whilst absolving yourself of all liability of having started the raucous backlash in the 1st place.

My God. I already hate Aries energy, but this month is such a dump of a month for me. My energy is more drained than usual. People are feisty and combative for no ******* reason at all. Everyone is going out of their way to be a pain to deal with. I am turning angry as a result.

I am sure that there are some good Aries out there, but I just want to say that despite this being Linda's sign, screw Aries. Truly the most worthless sign of the zodiac. Head-first idiots that make the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again but never learn from them. Unreliable as people and unreliable in general. I actively avoid them.

I don't care what criticism I get for this, f-ck Aries season and f-ck Aries as people."

I suspect the Mars energy of the season triggered you a lot and thereby exacerbating your defences and tendency to be reactionary.

Aries nature tends to be insensitive and brash (but not consciously so). So, in my view, I suspect that you were/are getting a mirror view of your own "shoot from the hip" approach that you have with other people.

You get angry, you get outraged, then you start throwing everything out and writing things off (baby with the water) and cursing everyone involved with "I don't care who I offend" sentiments whilst making negative blanket statements. That (to me) is all Mars.

First it was Sag that you had a problem with (this in particular the women). You cursed them out but still entertained their "crazy" selves by implying that you "reluctantly" sleep with them, because they apparently "couldn't leave your Leo self alone".🤔. So it's not your fault, its theirs? You are just too charming and attractive to be resisted.

Then soon after that, Scorpio's were on the receiving end of your rage. You called them "overrated" and said that their bark was worse than their bite etc. and basically dismantled them by saying they were simply "inferior" to Leos. All this based solely on Sun sign (mind you).

Then at some point, you went after Aquarius women-calling them "evil". Now in the new year, its Aries? If you keep at it at this rate that you are stereotyping and making sweeping generic statements, you will have alienated yourself with all people.

These extremes in reactions are Martial to me. And could also be influenced by the current trans Neptune/ natal Moon opposite (Moon is also a part of your Mars midpoint connection twice). So, you could be feeling that you are "losing your mind" at times.[/B]

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Except the only thing is that it never really changes and I never really forget about such things. I might not always post about how Scorpios are but if you were to ask me, my opinion that they are desperately to be portrayed as the most powerful sign has not changed. Same with my views and opinions on all else, it remains right in there tugged in for years and even forever. I just don't talk about it all the time but I do keep coming back to it when I find the time.

posted May 01, 2023 12:05 PM            

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread but I agree that the Tsquare with Pluto is obvious.

That Pluto is at the apex of the Tsquare, and it's reinforced also, at the apex of a minor grand trine - or "talent triangle". Pluto is a strong focus of your chart. Pluto here is also in it's own sign. As is your Sun, which is in the square to Pluto.

That's a strong ego battle with the outside world. Especially with a Sun in Leo.

Also that Tsquares are challenges and motivating elements: so the energy here is strong (and fixed) to continue to release the inner fight somewhere (outward). But also, a talent triangle is the "go to" for the personality of the chart owner. It really is a talent location in the chart too, and that is an easy place to hang out - it's a place that comes naturally to the personality.

So, Pluto is a place you hanging out a lot.

Your Chiron there, and depositing to the Sun, which is in its own sign. Your Venus, challenged with that Chiron, to Pluto. And your Mars depositing to Gemini, whose ruler is also there in that little pain pocket of your chart. All in your 12H so not easy for you to see, or grasp. But other people can see it, and you are vulnerable to them. And "them" is Pluto in your chart, and which reflects a whole generation you are up against (those with the Pluto square your 12H).

It explains a lot.

Challenged Venus as your wounded self esteem, incoming love is also hard, and being restricted and made brittle by Saturn, and wanting vengeance for the pain of not being able to love or be loved. Not being seen (12H), appreciated (Venus), and respected (Sun and Leo), like you long and deserve to be (Leo). And the struggle of other people, instead, having power over you, and oppressing you (Pluto). And those knowing nothing about you, how far you've come, and how much pain you have seen and experienced, and not treating you with the compassion you deserve (Chiron and 12H).

And Mars, depositing there (Mercury), is always willing to help out (trine), have some fun and games (Gem and Mars) to outwit those who have hurt you. And a Sun in Leo that surely wants to be king. And deserves it, but Saturn in Aqua is saying, no, that you need to buck up and be less self absorbed.

The answer (or part of it), as they say, is at the other end of the Tsquare - here it's in Taurus: to find the esteem in yourself (rather than seek it from others?). It will give you the inner strength and composure required to not be overpowered by the pain inflicted on you from your oppressors (Pluto), and it will temper the cinders of your vengeance. Which, arguably are, ultimately, troublesome for you, and keep you bound in a no-win battle. Not advising here, but reiterating what is said about Tsquares.

But also the answer is in the talent triangle whereby Pluto is at the apex here, too. It can be used here as a great tool for your wellbeing and for those around you as well. Used in this way it will attract less opposition on your path to your own empowerment.

But that Pluto can be flipped easily, into the rough dynamics of the Tsquare where it enjoys a dirty scrappy fight as well. So it's all a bit tricky.. flipping back and forward..

If you don't already, it would do you well to take up a fighting art, or sport, where you can get down and fight good and proper

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This was actually quite the underrated reading and it explains so much. However, I disagree that others can see "it". This might be for a different thread but 12th house is really invisible to all and only God or a superior power like that can see it. If anything, I think the reason I have been able to get the wrong kinds of people fired is because they never really saw me coming and by the time they did, they were on unemployment.

My thoughts are, even though overall you had a great response, that it is more of the reverse. I can see it and predict things in others that they cannot themselves. I feel like I can almost predict who is going to do what and just read people which is what has helped me get ahead in life. Like I can predict who is going to turn on who and who is going to be the one to do something based on just minutes of knowing them.

I think it is more of the reverse where others cannot see me but I see them clearly and use that information as I see fit. I have helped a few people out in terms of turning their lives and careers around but I have also been the reason a few people are on unemployment.

posted May 01, 2023 12:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ithinkimightbewrong:
the fact that so much of what you described is mental could be pluto in third house

the fact that you're trying find flaws in others could be your virgo stuff (which does make an aspect to your pluto)

your 5th house is ruled by sag and sag has a tendency towards thinking big and they can fantasise about fighting and getting even in a larger than life kinda way...so all these revenge things u do in your free time could be sag getting a little lost in the fantasy...

those are just the closest things i could come up with ...overall looking at the chart i wouldn't guess vengeful tho

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*reads your name*

posted May 01, 2023 12:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:
Since I suck so much with quoting lol.

1. I do think Saturn was playing a role but not a positive one given that it opposes all of my key inner planets. In fact, I think it has had a say with me being a late bloomer in life as well but also not being quick to act to get myself into trouble. I am curious to see how Saturn is so strong in my chart though.

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There are many factors that go into Saturn's strength in your chart. One is its direction of being on the west side (descending).

quote:

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2. I feel like Mars makes no contacts or major aspects to anything in my chart.

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A planet does not need to make any major aspects to have the strength of its own energy. Mars's strongest directional position is up high, near the MC/noon/10th house position.

quote:

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3. So in that case, is Pluto more under the horizon or up high in my chart?

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Being near the IC, it is about as far below the horizon as it can get. However, that puts it opposite the MC, doesn't it. That indicates an opposition mentality, at least towards authoritarianism or individuals who push their personal use of power too far.

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So far on this entire thread, your reading has been the most profound by far.

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Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

------------------
The Declcinations Guy
Soul Stars Astrology Gemstone Readings for energy balance and healing
Expert birth chart rectification

posted May 01, 2023 12:53 PM            

Pluto square Venus/Asc
+ opposite MC
+ parallel Moon
= a very Plutonian personality.

Consider it a process of learning to handle the Pluto energy. It's a bit like an internal extension of the Mars and Saturn energies, as if congealed into one. Passion often containing its own inhibition.

------------------
The Declcinations Guy
Soul Stars Astrology Gemstone Readings for energy balance and healing
Expert birth chart rectification

posted May 01, 2023 04:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
…Consider it a process of learning to handle the Pluto energy…

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Getting to the highest expression of Pluto energy is a journey of transformation. When Pluto is low, it’s very low and consistently hitting below the belt. It requires a lot of spiritual development before someone is no longer controlled by their fears and insecurities but is able to turn their darkest experiences into their strength. Like the ascension from Scorpio to Eagle to Phoenix.

posted May 23, 2023 05:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
So to sum it up ...

Pluto square Venus/Asc
+ opposite MC
+ parallel Moon
= a very Plutonian personality.

Consider it a process of learning to handle the Pluto energy. It's a bit like an internal extension of the Mars and Saturn energies, as if congealed into one. Passion often containing its own inhibition.

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Come to think of it, my Saturn oppositions came to mind. I have it with almost all of my inner planets and I think I read somewhere that it almost always leads to someone being a late bloomer if they do get to it. It just seems like in recent years, I am just now becoming more and more aware of human nature at its worst and what people can do. However, I almost did not want to. I just wanted to live a prosperous life, love people, have a peaceful family, provide for them, and make some friends.

Yet, life threw me some of the worst of humanity, especially in the workplace, and it is like it has really been forced on me. Like life wants me to tap into that power of Pluto to set things right and deliver some much needed justice (within legal means).

posted June 23, 2023 02:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PlutoWasHere:
Getting to the highest expression of Pluto energy is a journey of transformation. When Pluto is low, it’s very low and consistently hitting below the belt. It requires a lot of spiritual development before someone is no longer controlled by their fears and insecurities but is able to turn their darkest experiences into their strength. Like the ascension from Scorpio to Eagle to Phoenix.

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I wonder, what if Astrologers just suck with knowing human nature and just go by plain surface-level views of planets? Like for example, to me, Mars is more bark than bite and a dummy. It is the foot soldier hitting head first into things and getting itself into trouble.

Hate to attack Scorpios here but think about how Scorpios get worshiped as the mightiest sign and one to not be trifled with. Yet, they are also very sensitive and take offense to nearly everything as water signs do. So you have someone who gets offended by everything and tries to get even. I see an exhausted fighter ripe for picking and easy prey.

I am more scared of the guy who is patient, has a thick skin, does not offend easily, but once it finally comes time, cracks like Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood. Now that is the kind of energy that would scare me to go against because I know once a decent person goes to that end, it is a scary being to ever go against.

posted June 23, 2023 12:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:

I wonder, what if Astrologers just suck with knowing human nature and just go by plain surface-level views of planets? Like for example, to me, Mars is more bark than bite and a dummy. It is the foot soldier hitting head first into things and getting itself into trouble.

Hate to attack Scorpios here but think about how Scorpios get worshiped as the mightiest sign and one to not be trifled with. Yet, they are also very sensitive and take offense to nearly everything as water signs do. So you have someone who gets offended by everything and tries to get even. I see an exhausted fighter ripe for picking and easy prey.

I am more scared of the guy who is patient, has a thick skin, does not offend easily, but once it finally comes time, cracks like Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood. Now that is the kind of energy that would scare me to go against because I know once a decent person goes to that end, it is a scary being to ever go against.

So I never brought any Martian ruled sign as being powerful. I saw them as being more bark than bite because they are the sensitive drunk that gets into a bar fight and spends the night in jail. I am more scared of the patient guy that smiles when insulted, bides his time, and when the moment is right, hits hard. Only thing, it took a while for him to even get that mad at someone.

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That used to be me, except I’m not fond of hitting anyone. Or lashing out. I don’t like violence, or arguments. Arguing used to make me sick. I’m an Aries. I would be patient, gave people the benefit of the doubt. Some people don’t want that, they want a reaction, like a family member one night, when her boyfriend upset her (by saying he was in love with me, to my mother, not my sister). Taurus created the situation, and sat back and let Capricorn punish Aries for his actions (I hate him so much). She was only satisfied, when I finally showed some frustration. I’m using sun signs, only because Aries is constantly vilified, when Gemini isn’t available for a situation in question.

You seem to respect the people who don’t mind fighting, though. You also don’t give others the benefit of the doubt that maybe their chart is under siege, like yours.

posted June 24, 2023 01:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:
I don't like people who start fights, I love people who finish them. My point was that it is a bit asinine for Astrologers to say one sign is sensitive, easily offended, loves to provoke but nooo, don't ever fight back because they are this vengeful mastermind. It just shows how perhaps most Astrologers are out of touch with human nature.

I don't like people that start fights, I love people who put those that start fights in their place.

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Ultimately, it’s free will but it’s the planets and their aspects that would indicate if someone is easily triggered to start fights and not the signs. The signs describe the way the energy expresses itself. I don’t think that TikTok shorts on the signs and their rankings are actual astrology or made by real astrologers. It’s entertainment and click bait.

A Mars challenged by Pluto or Uranus, especially squares, is notorious when it comes to outbursts of aggression. Even when it’s in the Venus ruled sign of Libra, which still is a Cardinal sign.

posted June 24, 2023 03:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:

So I never brought any Martian ruled sign as being powerful. I saw them as being more bark than bite because they are the sensitive drunk that gets into a bar fight and spends the night in jail. I am more scared of the patient guy that smiles when insulted, bides his time, and when the moment is right, hits hard. Only thing, it took a while for him to even get that mad at someone.

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I've wondered why my dog comes to me, when things really scare him. He adores my dad, and loves me, but I'm the one he runs to, when things get really scary. This must be why. I've joked that I'm scarier than them all, and that's why he thinks I can protect him. I will do anything I can to protect him, but I can't do much against thunder, lightning, loud noises. I wish I could soundproof the basement for him, or a room.