posted April 09, 2023 01:48 AM            

I was one of the very few who made it out alive from the town I was raised in without being addicted to drugs or working a dead-end job.

However, I feel like I also have a dark side to me that the chart doesn't show. Like I have been obsessed in the past few years with things like how to break someone and punishment tactics that have been used. Sometimes I feel like society is not hard enough on people such as rapists, m0lesters, and other scum of society.

I also feel like I never forgive or forget and am constantly trying to find weaknesses in people that have wronged me, like almost obsessed with finding weaknesses in people that I think could topple them. It is almost like I run a gameplan in my head like a football coach around where a certain person might be weak and how to take advantage of them. I've spent hours sometimes on the web trying to dig up as much dirt as I could about people that ****** me off at my old job and was amazed at some things I found.

It is like my obsession in life is with vindication, vengeance, and getting even. Like that just drives me every day of my life. Even if I achieve something and push to it, it is to get even and almost bark back at whatever told me I couldn't do it.

What gets me is that my natal chart does not reflect any of this at all. Like it just does not show in my chart to where I wonder if I might just be one of those people that astrology does not apply to.

posted April 09, 2023 05:14 AM            

So it makes sense (looking at your chart) for Mars to be in 'clap back' Gemini widely squaring the Asc from the 11th house and forming an out of sign wide combo with your midheaven. I wasn't expecting Aries energy because if you were, I would have felt you in my 1st house.

Lindaland and similar forums that are made up of groups of people with differing opinions etc. Is 11th. And you have Mars in the 11th house. So in these groups, you can be the firecracker and firestarter(Mars).

In relation to me, you fall in my 3rd house. Sometimes I look at your posts and think "This mother***". I just can't say anything otherwise I'll just say the wrong f*** up thing 😡."

That's your Mars triggering my 3rd house of communication. And in these chat groups, I am more Sat(11th house ruler) conj Ven. Restrained(Sat) and polite (Ven).

This is the first post in a long time that I have chosen to interact🤔. But then again, I don't think I have seen you on here in a minute. You've been very quiet of late. Maybe because of trans Saturn on your Asc/Dsc and squaring Mc/Ic?

You likely have been going through the most since last year. I think we did have a chat many moons ago about the Saturn transits which (at the time) were yet to be exact. And I mentioned these hardships.

Anyways,Neptune continues to oppose your Moon. This tends to have feelings sway back/forth between two extremes. Feeling extra touchy about being "wronged" is likely. But there is also a tendency for these feelings of "injustice" to be so overwhelming, that they spill over to more broader concepts like societal ills and the debate around crime meeting the punishment etc.

Neptune can be the digging behind people's backs to find their weak points. Neptune is about subversive actions. And since Moon rules your 12th house of "hidden things"( I use whole sign) and is situated in the 2nd house. You value (2nd) secret/hidden things (12th).

In this case knowledge (Vir) that gives you the psychological advantage(Moon) by gaining valuable hidden knowledge(12th). Neptune opp Moon will be emphasising that a lot now.

I also see that Mars rules your Ic. The Ic is the lowest point of our chart. So Mars ruling it would suggest that you are very defensive and self protective.

You respond "In the moment" to perceived threats. And since Mars is in Gemini, perhaps growing up ,you have had to be fast-talking and fast thinking in order to navigate yourself out of threatening situations?

Now this learned coping mechanism will also manifest in you getting the "dirt"(12th house ruled by Moon in information seeking Virgo) on people. Then using what you have found to "clap back"(Gem) as a means of defending yourself(Mars)?

Wendy Williams(who was known for being a spicy talk show host with juicy gossip) courted a lot of controversy because of her sharp tongue and tendency to say things(Gem) that are cutting and offensivs(Mars) about celebs.

But most of the trouble Wendy got into, she instigated. Imagine if she had focused her energy on politicians and holding those in authority accountable to the public? Just picture the social change she would have helped make?

And that's the issue with Gemini. This energy doesn't know when opinion can cross over to offense and then degenerate to insensitivity. Be careful that you don't stir more drama through your vengeance, when in fact YOU may have been the one who started the quarrel through what you said that came out in a harsh or accusatory tone.

I don't know who said "When you start nothing. There won't be nothing."? But I think this is very apt advice for Gemini(if they take it). This especially Mars/Sun there. Not every thought needs to be expressed. And freedom of speech is not a verbal licence to kill ☝🏿

posted April 09, 2023 05:43 AM            

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/blog/the-astrology-of-vengeance/

This popped up in my search as well:
https://youtu.be/uO06ON9gwSQ
😁

posted April 09, 2023 10:29 AM            

Thanks to Plutowashere to point out the T-square because I haven't studied those yet, so I wouldn't have noticed it but I did a little google search on the matter and it is said that a t-square is when two+ planets in opposition to each other square a third planet, causing tension and conflict in the native’s life. The third planet, known as the “focal point,” (this is Pluto in your case, making Pluto definitely central in your chart on top of it being conjunct your IC) offers a solution to the problem by looking to the point opposite of it, which is known as the “empty leg.”

There are three ‘types’ of t-squares, yours is in the fixed signs meaning :"the native can be inflexible and unwilling to change, and may let problems fester because they hold onto them for too long. they want things to stay the way they’ve always been."

To solve problems created by the t-square, look at which house the “empty leg” would be sitting in. In your case, that's the 9th house, so changing your life philosophy, your outlook on life will help to change your outer reality as well (since whatever you focus upon is what manifests outside). Perhaps literally by moving to further places away as well.

I think your Chiron conjuncting your Mercury in the 12th house is also symbolizing the darker side of Chiron which can be very destructive and that shadowy side doesn’t get as much air time in astrology textbooks as the Wounded Healer theme does.

The 12th house is what can not be seen , so has an association with what happens behind one's back/secretive: you googling what you can find about people without them knowing while having dark thoughts (chiron and pluto aspecting your mercury (mind) and sun (your identity).

So all in all, we do can see the way you describe yourself reflected in your chart.

posted April 10, 2023 03:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I'd like to also point out that your MC is conjunct the fixed star algol. This star is often called the "demon star" because of its insidious nature. Maybe you secretly want to be seen as a demon like presence to the outside world and it seems you may be fishing for validation from us? It may be very possible that this is just the way you're seen, and not necessarily who you are.

---

This exactly. I have observed you a little bit and I noticed that you are obsessed with proving how plutonian, badass, dark you are! You keep on trying to discredit scorpios too because they are considered to have these qualities that you are looking for. I saw you post your charts on Reddit as well, are you u/ManUFancomingthrough? As soon as some astrologers indicated insecurity or the disability to confront people you got visibly insulted.

Post like „Scorpios have an inferiority complex to Leos“ look like projection of your own inferiority complex. Don‘t get me wrong, this is not about Leo’s because I love Leos but you are an exception😄

posted April 10, 2023 06:55 AM            

You posted: „Leo is the STRONGEST Zodiac sign“

Another comment: „ As someone with a Pluto heavy chart, this is false. Scorpio is the Zodiac's biggest poser. The reason they are bitter and angry all the time is because they know that they are relatively spineless and the all bark no bite of zodiac signs. Most of them are desperate for validation but hide behind the mysterious facade.“ (btw I’m not a Scorpio myself, it’s not personal)

This is called projection, my friend😂 how many more posts do you need to prove your own badassery that is OBVIOUSLY fragile ??? I will find you on EVERY astrology website and call you out haha

posted April 10, 2023 03:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aries23Degrees:
I have always felt u were very Martial. Your interactions on here draw debate and can even be called "controversial". This because you don't tend to mince your words and don't care who you wind up.

So it makes sense (looking at your chart) for Mars to be in 'clap back' Gemini widely squaring the Asc from the 11th house and forming an out of sign wide combo with your midheaven. I wasn't expecting Aries energy because if you were, I would have felt you in my 1st house.

Lindaland and similar forums that are made up of groups of people with differing opinions etc. Is 11th. And you have Mars in the 11th house. So in these groups, you can be the firecracker and firestarter(Mars).

In relation to me, you fall in my 3rd house. Sometimes I look at your posts and think "This mother***". I just can't say anything otherwise I'll just say the wrong f*** up thing 😡."

That's your Mars triggering my 3rd house of communication. And in these chat groups, I am more Sat(11th house ruler) conj Ven. Restrained(Sat) and polite (Ven).

This is the first post in a long time that I have chosen to interact🤔. But then again, I don't think I have seen you on here in a minute. You've been very quiet of late. Maybe because of trans Saturn on your Asc/Dsc and squaring Mc/Ic?

You likely have been going through the most since last year. I think we did have a chat many moons ago about the Saturn transits which (at the time) were yet to be exact. And I mentioned these hardships.

Anyways,Neptune continues to oppose your Moon. This tends to have feelings sway back/forth between two extremes. Feeling extra touchy about being "wronged" is likely. But there is also a tendency for these feelings of "injustice" to be so overwhelming, that they spill over to more broader concepts like societal ills and the debate around crime meeting the punishment etc.

Neptune can be the digging behind people's backs to find their weak points. Neptune is about subversive actions. And since Moon rules your 12th house of "hidden things"( I use whole sign) and is situated in the 2nd house. You value (2nd) secret/hidden things (12th).

In this case knowledge (Vir) that gives you the psychological advantage(Moon) by gaining valuable hidden knowledge(12th). Neptune opp Moon will be emphasising that a lot now.

I also see that Mars rules your Ic. The Ic is the lowest point of our chart. So Mars ruling it would suggest that you are very defensive and self protective.

You respond "In the moment" to perceived threats. And since Mars is in Gemini, perhaps growing up ,you have had to be fast-talking and fast thinking in order to navigate yourself out of threatening situations?

Now this learned coping mechanism will also manifest in you getting the "dirt"(12th house ruled by Moon in information seeking Virgo) on people. Then using what you have found to "clap back"(Gem) as a means of defending yourself(Mars)?

Wendy Williams(who was known for being a spicy talk show host with juicy gossip) courted a lot of controversy because of her sharp tongue and tendency to say things(Gem) that are cutting and offensivs(Mars) about celebs.

But most of the trouble Wendy got into, she instigated. Imagine if she had focused her energy on politicians and holding those in authority accountable to the public? Just picture the social change she would have helped make?

And that's the issue with Gemini. This energy doesn't know when opinion can cross over to offense and then degenerate to insensitivity. Be careful that you don't stir more drama through your vengeance, when in fact YOU may have been the one who started the quarrel through what you said that came out in a harsh or accusatory tone.

I don't know who said "When you start nothing. There won't be nothing."? But I think this is very apt advice for Gemini(if they take it). This especially Mars/Sun there. Not every thought needs to be expressed. And freedom of speech is not a verbal licence to kill ☝🏿

---

Great point and yeah, I don't expect everyone to like me and if you need to debate me, go for it. However, what really gets me is that I cannot help but wonder that the creator and fate put me on this earth for the very sake of vengeance. Like it's almost comparable to Wick losing his dog, he was never a bad person until you killed his dog. I almost feel like life throws bad people in my direction who want to stir the pot and start $hit for the sake of starting it and is daring me to get even. Like there is this really dark side inside of me that is forcing me to be that Genghis Khan of modern day and whenever I try to live a life of peace and quiet, it always comes knocking.

posted April 10, 2023 03:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlutoWasHere:
@plutonianmenace, how do you not see the relationship between Pluto and revenge? Your Pluto is extremely active in your chart and part of a very prominent t-square.

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/blog/the-astrology-of-vengeance/

This popped up in my search as well:
https://youtu.be/uO06ON9gwSQ
😁

---

posted April 10, 2023 03:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sherriontop:
Right away I saw your Pluto being in Scorpio conjuncting your IC (inner feelings) being in Scorpio as well.

Thanks to Plutowashere to point out the T-square because I haven't studied those yet, so I wouldn't have noticed it but I did a little google search on the matter and it is said that a t-square is when two+ planets in opposition to each other square a third planet, causing tension and conflict in the native’s life. The third planet, known as the “focal point,” (this is Pluto in your case, making Pluto definitely central in your chart on top of it being conjunct your IC) offers a solution to the problem by looking to the point opposite of it, which is known as the “empty leg.”

There are three ‘types’ of t-squares, yours is in the fixed signs meaning :"the native can be inflexible and unwilling to change, and may let problems fester because they hold onto them for too long. they want things to stay the way they’ve always been."

To solve problems created by the t-square, look at which house the “empty leg” would be sitting in. In your case, that's the 9th house, so changing your life philosophy, your outlook on life will help to change your outer reality as well (since whatever you focus upon is what manifests outside). Perhaps literally by moving to further places away as well.

I think your Chiron conjuncting your Mercury in the 12th house is also symbolizing the darker side of Chiron which can be very destructive and that shadowy side doesn’t get as much air time in astrology textbooks as the Wounded Healer theme does.

The 12th house is what can not be seen , so has an association with what happens behind one's back/secretive: you googling what you can find about people without them knowing while having dark thoughts (chiron and pluto aspecting your mercury (mind) and sun (your identity).

So all in all, we do can see the way you describe yourself reflected in your chart.

---

I think it is the Libra New Moon or something but April has been a mess for me. It is like my mind has been unraveling and forcing me to think differently about literally everything. I have had to challenge so many of my beliefs and so many of my views on life. Come to find that I have attracted so many Sags into my life as an outcome and they have been the ones who have pushed forth that change in me.

posted April 10, 2023 03:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I'd like to also point out that your MC is conjunct the fixed star algol. This star is often called the "demon star" because of its insidious nature. Maybe you secretly want to be seen as a demon like presence to the outside world and it seems you may be fishing for validation from us? It may be very possible that this is just the way you're seen, and not necessarily who you are.

---

You could be on to something for sure and let's face it, the saying "better to be feared than loved" is a saying for a good reason. I do however feel like I was not meant to live a life of peace and niceness. I feel like something in my destiny or what fate wrote about me was meant to push me towards being a conqueror who is meant to dominate and set people straight. I have felt for the longest time that the creator and fate sent me to this planet to be broken to the point where I would be the modern day version of a conqueror or someone who has to set people straight (obviously within legal means) and that is that.

Like I was never meant to enjoy a life of peace and a life of quiet. I was meant to have a life of conflict and one that begs me to pull on my Mars and my Pluto. It's almost like fate is speaking to me saying that I need to embrace the darker side of myself and use it as an asset to set people straight, not to hide it or run from it.

posted April 10, 2023 03:35 PM            

I don't have a very strong Martian chart at all, Mars barely does anything in my chart.

Pluto is not in a strong house and only makes rough aspects.

By all accounts, I was not supposed to come as far in life as I have or get out of the dirt I got out of. Somehow, I did. My Jupiter is not in a strong place as it is in a detriment of a sign in Virgo. I can't say that I was lucky growing up.

posted April 10, 2023 06:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by plutonianmenace:

What gets me is that my natal chart does not reflect any of this at all. Like it just does not show in my chart to where I wonder if I might just be one of those people that astrology does not apply to.

https://i.imgur.com/xj9BN70.png

---

If we were talking only about the circle wheel chart I can see how you could come to this conclusion, although I'd still not totally agree. Venus square Pluto is pretty strongly emphasized and it fits much of what you describe.

However, I've tried to bring your attention over and over to your declination aspect of Moon parallel Pluto at 3° south. That is what you are missing. It is the single most standout aspect in your birth chart and it is not displayed on the circle wheel chart, which displays on longitudes (east-west).

If you want to understand that aspect, then look up interpretations of Moon conjunct Pluto. That will describe you more accurately than any single factor you can pinpoint. It's in the declinations, which is common to many people's birth charts. That's where the missing factor is that explains many things about the personality, many behaviors, many internal feeling/thought processes.

Declinations — the north/south axis of planetary motion — is the single most neglected, under-applied, misused part of astrology. Astrology is first and foremost planets and when astrologers neglect one of the two essential axes necessary to locate a planet they do most of their clients and astrology seekers a disservice.

This is why I emphasize declinations and call myself The Declinations Guy.

My page on Declinations: http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/declinations/

------------------
The Declcinations Guy
Soul Stars Astrology Gemstone Readings for energy balance and healing
Expert birth chart rectification

posted April 10, 2023 10:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
If we were talking only about the circle wheel chart I can see how you could come to this conclusion, although I'd still not totally agree. Venus square Pluto is pretty strongly emphasized and it fits much of what you describe.

However, I've tried to bring your attention over and over to [b]your declination aspect of Moon parallel Pluto at 3° south. That is what you are missing. It is the single most standout aspect in your birth chart and it is not displayed on the circle wheel chart, which displays on longitudes (east-west).

If you want to understand that aspect, then look up interpretations of Moon conjunct Pluto. That will describe you more accurately than any single factor you can pinpoint. It's in the declinations, which is common to many people's birth charts. That's where the missing factor is that explains many things about the personality, many behaviors, many internal feeling/thought processes.

Declinations — the north/south axis of planetary motion — is the single most neglected, under-applied, misused part of astrology. Astrology is first and foremost planets and when astrologers neglect one of the two essential axes necessary to locate a planet they do most of their clients and astrology seekers a disservice.

This is why I emphasize declinations and call myself The Declinations Guy.

My page on Declinations: http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/declinations/

[/B]

---

And there he is, a forum legend, Kanon! Hope all is well man and I probably never got a chance to say this but thanks for coming through for me months back when I felt like I was gonna die of a health condition.

I had the chance to read about Moon conjunct Pluto and it shed some light into my personality but it did not describe how I function fully. Maybe something else is at play. I will share a story.

Many years ago, I worked in an environment where we had a handful of toxic coworkers. These guys, and one girl, had an above the law type of persona to them. They broke a lot of company rules but because they were practically close with management, they got away with things. One of the guys even tried to force himself on an intern at our company and another really tried to get with a younger beautiful woman. I was not liked much by them but not too hated.

For a while, people tried to figure out how to get rid of them. I was able to tactically plan out a way to get them out of the company in a very innovative type of ordeal that involved the company's reputation, CEO, and other things if they were not going to get rid of them. In a way, I bypassed them having immunity in front of the direct manager as well as his boss and made it to a point where they had to fire them or risk serious damage to the company.

I do not want to go into too much detail about it but after four months of it, I was able to do something people before me tried but failed at. I was able to get my boss and his favorites fired and bring forth a healthier culture at the company without even exposing that it was me who did it.

This is not something I post to brag but on that day, as someone who was still getting into Astrology, I started to realize there may be more to my chart.

I hear Pluto by nature rips away that which is rotten so something better can grow in its place. However, my entire chart seems to hint that I am all about the inward and not about the outward. Since then, I have had this strange curiosity about where in my chart that came from.

It cannot be Mars as Mars is inactive in my chart.

posted April 11, 2023 12:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:

However, I've tried to bring your attention over and over to [b]your declination aspect of Moon parallel Pluto at 3° south. That is what you are missing. It is the single most standout

If you want to understand that aspect, then look up interpretations of Moon conjunct Pluto. That will describe you more accurately than any single factor you can pinpoint. It's in the declinations, which is common to many people's birth charts. That's where the missing factor is that explains many things about the personality, many behaviors, many internal feeling/thought processes.

Declinations — the north/south axis of planetary motion — is the single most neglected, under-applied, misused part of astrology. Astrology is first and foremost planets and when astrologers neglect one of the two essential axes necessary to locate a planet they do most of their clients and astrology seekers a disservice.

This is why I emphasize declinations and call myself The Declinations Guy.

My page on Declinations: http://kannonmcafee.wordpress.com/declinations/

---

@Kannon McAfee, Excuse my ignorance I don't know how parallel aspect dynamics work but wouldn't a parallel aspect between North and South considered contra-parallel and thus an opposition aspect would be more relevant or they all work like a conjunction essentially?

posted April 11, 2023 01:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by plutonianmenace:

But I just find that if we were to go by chart readings and what the chart says, my chart is just not reflecting who I really am and how I really see the world. My chart is just not reflecting what kind of person I am and how I go about things so I was wondering if a Whole Sign house reading could be worth it, maybe a Draconian chart.

---

I think it's funny though how you keep ignoring the fact that many people here have showed you how Pluto does take a strong position in your chart.

You didn't answer my question about how your south node in gemini in the anaretic degree plays out, but based on your reaction I think it means you're rather narrow minded and stubborn in your point of view (no offense) as this can be an issue with Gemini. Finding pleasure in a new life philosophy/ point of view may make you happier than spending more time on thinking how to get even with people as it may be an endless pursuit.

I'd also be interested in seeing where Pholus, Lilith and Hybris are placed in your chart...

BTW I just did a quick google search on Sun conjunct Chiron and you may have underestimated this aspect as I see a lot that resonates in the description with how you described yourself:

"When you are born with the Sun conjunct Chiron, it’s like your personal calling in life is to confront and heal pain.

The pain in question can be physical or emotional, as well as self-inflicted or handed to you by others.

Sun conjunct Chiron means that together the Sun and Chiron are enhancing the personality with a higher sense of purpose and a great desire to help others, sometimes giving the sense that he or she is “on a mission from God.” The person’s ego has been transformed into one of service.
..
This placement can give you a very strong sense of purpose for why you are on the planet at this time.

The desire to help others with their own issues may be strong because you have a knack for finding their weak spots. That said, your mission could be to just listen or guide them in a certain direction rather than fix everything for them."

Sun conjunct Chiron also gives you a great sense of self-sufficiency and independance with heightened sensitivity to the needs of others. Your success is easily achievable.

You may feel that you need to compensate for inner wounds through shining even brighter and being a healer for others.
You identify more with your own ambition and intuition and as a result you can be happy even without intimate connections. You don't rely on others for approval but you have no problems socializing in an ordinary way.

Sun conjunct Chiron represents the instinct of the human spirit to manifest itself and leave something immaterial behind. Our spirit seeking manifestation represents our “gift to the world”.

Sun conjunct Chiron is the compelling drive to push beyond your existing boundaries to find your true zone of genius.

It can also make you identify with some type of shaman role. The shaman’s role is to travel to hell, to heaven, and then back to earth.

Chiron is the connecting link between the conscious archetypes represented by the planets visible to the naked eye (all planets up to Saturn), and the unconscious aspects represented by Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

Chiron orbits between Saturn and Uranus and brings together these two worlds, connecting us with the whole universe.

I thought it was fitting with you saying you sometimes think God put you on this earth to correct or punish the wrongs of people, you finding people's weak spots and feeling very independent and successful...

And considering that this aspect is also conjunct Mercury and your South Node is ruled by Mercury, it may make you more calculated and less sensitive/ emotionally involved than some other people with this Chironic placement.

posted April 11, 2023 03:02 PM            

The way you speak, write and express screams Pluto to me. Not only as a previous user said you have Moon parallel pluto 3° south but Pluto conjunct your IC its another type of moon/pluto energy to me since IC is the cusp of the 4th house which has natural cancer (moon) energy.

Pluto its in its own sign too, thats more power to it.

posted April 12, 2023 02:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaGioconda:
This exactly. I have observed you a little bit and I noticed that you are obsessed with proving how plutonian, badass, dark you are! You keep on trying to discredit scorpios too because they are considered to have these qualities that you are looking for. I saw you post your charts on Reddit as well, are you u/ManUFancomingthrough? As soon as some astrologers indicated insecurity or the disability to confront people you got visibly insulted.

Post like „Scorpios have an inferiority complex to Leos“ look like projection of your own inferiority complex. Don‘t get me wrong, this is not about Leo’s because I love Leos but you are an exception😄

Listen, observant people see right through you and they see somebody who is not confident about their own strength and seeks out other people to validate it. But external validation will never satisfy you and never give you what you want. A person who is strong on the inside and KNOWS it, does not NEED other people to tell them!!!

---

posted April 12, 2023 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by plutonianmenace:
... I do not want to go into too much detail about it but after four months of it, I was able to do something people before me tried but failed at. I was able to get my boss and his favorites fired and bring forth a healthier culture at the company without even exposing that it was me who did it.

This is not something I post to brag but on that day, as someone who was still getting into Astrology, I started to realize there may be more to my chart...

---

I wouldn't try to pin that ability for strategy and delicate, behind-the-scenes manipulation on any one thing in your birth chart. And I'm using 'manipulation' here in a very positive sense. Well done.

You have a pretty strong Sun, Saturn, and Mars (in that order). The strength of Saturn in your chart is one of the highest I've seen. It shows experience with wisdom for you to tap into (not just ambition as Saturn tends to be interpreted in the west). That helps you with the delicate control that Moon in Virgo can feel out with its attention to detail.

One of the benefits of Moon aspects with Pluto like the parallel is that you can keep secrets and focus your internal energy with great concentration. Pluto in Scorpio in such a pivotal place in your chart helps with subterfuge and strategies behind the scenes. So the example you gave at work is one of a positive application of those potentials. The negative ones relate to jealousy, unhealthy fixations or passions, suspicion of others, etc.

quote:

---

It cannot be Mars as Mars is inactive in my chart.

---

Not so. Not even possible. Where did you get that idea?

quote:

---

Did I just misread and misinterpret what Pluto actually is? I used to think it was about inward transformation but could one not say that it is really just a more intense, focused, colder, and more calculated version of Mars?[/B]

---

Pluto is power — total consciousness — the god self. It's process is transformation because so long as we are stuck in the human (animal-biological) way of thinking we cannot realize what we've got inside us. Pluto / Hades correlates to Shiva in Hinduism, but destruction is only a part of the process (especially when we resist from egoism).

Because Pluto is power, there are many mentions and admonishments in the astrological literature and interpretive sources about domination, abuse, etc, as unhealthy expressions of it from human ego. The myth of Pluto involved kidnapping/rape as part of the progression of Pluto out of dominance as an underworld monarch into a place of sharing power. All power is shared.

Pluto belongs under the horizon. That is where it can best use its power: from an 'underworld' or hidden position. Up high in the chart, it tends to turbo charge ambition and a desire to change the world or dominate groups of people and the resources associated with them. It is a less natural way for Pluto to function because it would seem to become more a Martial-like force.

------------------
The Declcinations Guy
Soul Stars Astrology Gemstone Readings for energy balance and healing
Expert birth chart rectification

posted April 14, 2023 03:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by plutonianmenace:
Great point and yeah, I don't expect everyone to like me and if you need to debate me, go for it. However, what really gets me is that I cannot help but wonder that the creator and fate put me on this earth for the very sake of vengeance. Like it's almost comparable to Wick losing his dog, he was never a bad person until you killed his dog. I almost feel like life throws bad people in my direction who want to stir the pot and start $hit for the sake of starting it and is daring me to get even. Like there is this really dark side inside of me that is forcing me to be that Genghis Khan of modern day and whenever I try to live a life of peace and quiet, it always comes knocking.

It is almost like I cannot run from my inner dark side and that I was sent into this world for the purpose of setting some people straight. That's how I feel but I feel like my chart does not show it.

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This need to "right wrong" or "setting people straight" is tied up with the illusion of control and the need to have things go in the way that you approve of.

To do all that takes energy (Mars). To plot revenge and vengeance, is energy (Mars). To get emotional and reactionary to a slight or rebuff, is energy (Mars). To start a fight/ respond to a quarrel with another person, is energy (Mars). To struggle to find peace (as peace is about letting go and being resolved to the idea that things are really out of your hands) means you are still invested in controlling the outcome and are not convinced that there is someone else in charge outside of yourself. Thats energy (Mars).

I stand by what I said, to me you come across Martial (Mars). Always have. And the debate around you is usually Martial i.e., people trying to figure out why you would say the things you say or are so offensive in your view -and yet still maintaining that you are only telling the "truth" and being "objective".

On my side, I realized that after seeing that you have Mars in Gem, I am now better able to understand and see that your rants are likely passing discomforts that you wish to express in the NOW. That they are not forever.

I have a sister with Mars in Gemini. She is always changing her mind about what she will get angry at. But one thing for sure (much like you), she also has Sun/Moon midpoint= Mars and Mercury/Moon midpoint=Mars and is passionate about whatever subject tickles her fancy on that day.

That subject will preoccupy her until she is bored of it and moves to another thing that she finds "upsetting". Then rally people around her to be as reactionary to it as she is etc. before abandoning that subject matter too. With her, I have learned that its NEVER that deep.

As a family, we used to react and be concerned. But now we have become impassive because (quite frankly) it's exhausting to go through the back/forths she can put us through with her passionate (and fleeting) feelings. 🤷‍♂️

I don't know your place of birth, but I guessed the date as to likely to be between the 1st to 2nd August 1992. With this date and your stated positions, Mars is on your Sun/Moon midpoint and Mercury/Moon midpoint. Very seldom do things come out of your mouth or your way of external expression, without them being sharp/ passionate (Mars)

Sun rules your Asc and is part of the Mars midpoint connection. Look at your current posts i.e. "I just want to say f** April 2023 so far". And then look at the things you wrote? YOU are the Firestarter and then somehow find a way to blame others for reacting whilst absolving yourself of all liability of having started the raucous backlash in the 1st place.

My God. I already hate Aries energy, but this month is such a dump of a month for me. My energy is more drained than usual. People are feisty and combative for no ******* reason at all. Everyone is going out of their way to be a pain to deal with. I am turning angry as a result.

I am sure that there are some good Aries out there, but I just want to say that despite this being Linda's sign, screw Aries. Truly the most worthless sign of the zodiac. Head-first idiots that make the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again but never learn from them. Unreliable as people and unreliable in general. I actively avoid them.

I don't care what criticism I get for this, f-ck Aries season and f-ck Aries as people."

I suspect the Mars energy of the season triggered you a lot and thereby exacerbating your defences and tendency to be reactionary.

Aries nature tends to be insensitive and brash (but not consciously so). So, in my view, I suspect that you were/are getting a mirror view of your own "shoot from the hip" approach that you have with other people.

You get angry, you get outraged, then you start throwing everything out and writing things off (baby with the water) and cursing everyone involved with "I don't care who I offend" sentiments whilst making negative blanket statements. That (to me) is all Mars.

First it was Sag that you had a problem with (this in particular the women). You cursed them out but still entertained their "crazy" selves by implying that you "reluctantly" sleep with them, because they apparently "couldn't leave your Leo self alone".🤔. So it's not your fault, its theirs? You are just too charming and attractive to be resisted.

Then soon after that, Scorpio's were on the receiving end of your rage. You called them "overrated" and said that their bark was worse than their bite etc. and basically dismantled them by saying they were simply "inferior" to Leos. All this based solely on Sun sign (mind you).

Then at some point, you went after Aquarius women-calling them "evil". Now in the new year, its Aries? If you keep at it at this rate that you are stereotyping and making sweeping generic statements, you will have alienated yourself with all people.

posted April 14, 2023 06:00 PM            

That Pluto is at the apex of the Tsquare, and it's reinforced also, at the apex of a minor grand trine - or "talent triangle". Pluto is a strong focus of your chart. Pluto here is also in it's own sign. As is your Sun, which is in the square to Pluto.

That's a strong ego battle with the outside world. Especially with a Sun in Leo.

Also that Tsquares are challenges and motivating elements: so the energy here is strong (and fixed) to continue to release the inner fight somewhere (outward). But also, a talent triangle is the "go to" for the personality of the chart owner. It really is a talent location in the chart too, and that is an easy place to hang out - it's a place that comes naturally to the personality.

So, Pluto is a place you hanging out a lot.

Your Chiron there, and depositing to the Sun, which is in its own sign. Your Venus, challenged with that Chiron, to Pluto. And your Mars depositing to Gemini, whose ruler is also there in that little pain pocket of your chart. All in your 12H so not easy for you to see, or grasp. But other people can see it, and you are vulnerable to them. And "them" is Pluto in your chart, and which reflects a whole generation you are up against (those with the Pluto square your 12H).

It explains a lot.

Challenged Venus as your wounded self esteem, incoming love is also hard, and being restricted and made brittle by Saturn, and wanting vengeance for the pain of not being able to love or be loved. Not being seen (12H), appreciated (Venus), and respected (Sun and Leo), like you long and deserve to be (Leo). And the struggle of other people, instead, having power over you, and oppressing you (Pluto). And those knowing nothing about you, how far you've come, and how much pain you have seen and experienced, and not treating you with the compassion you deserve (Chiron and 12H).

And Mars, depositing there (Mercury), is always willing to help out (trine), have some fun and games (Gem and Mars) to outwit those who have hurt you. And a Sun in Leo that surely wants to be king. And deserves it, but Saturn in Aqua is saying, no, that you need to buck up and be less self absorbed.

The answer (or part of it), as they say, is at the other end of the Tsquare - here it's in Taurus: to find the esteem in yourself (rather than seek it from others?). It will give you the inner strength and composure required to not be overpowered by the pain inflicted on you from your oppressors (Pluto), and it will temper the cinders of your vengeance. Which, arguably are, ultimately, troublesome for you, and keep you bound in a no-win battle. Not advising here, but reiterating what is said about Tsquares.

But also the answer is in the talent triangle whereby Pluto is at the apex here, too. It can be used here as a great tool for your wellbeing and for those around you as well. Used in this way it will attract less opposition on your path to your own empowerment.

But that Pluto can be flipped easily, into the rough dynamics of the Tsquare where it enjoys a dirty scrappy fight as well. So it's all a bit tricky.. flipping back and forward..

posted April 15, 2023 07:22 PM            

leo ascendant with the sun in the 12th literally your identity is unknown to you cause the 12th house hides everything from you 12th house people don't have " identities" .

obsesssion with serial killers might come from pluto in your third house . Your mind ( third house) is filled with crime and death( pluto).

posted April 22, 2023 01:01 PM            

If one were to sum me up it's Mars conjunct Pluto and Ascendant in declinations. I am extremely brave and I have a will that can move concrete, or until I hurt myself. I am also capable of ugly manipulation and that's a side I don't like in myself, but I'm aware of it (Mars/Pluto). I have also seen the darker side of life and humans and most of it is self inflicted. I subconscioulsy attract people that try to dominate me and then I lash out but I have found that regeneration is the best way for me and thus I kinda "roll with the punches" and get back up (Pluto). I feel that the only way to keep me "honest" is to be of service any which way I can.

In declinations I have found my core-self but it took a long time to understand what it is that people really see and feel when they meet me. The see Pluto and it fascinates them, scares them and ignites them. I am not a neutral person by any stretch of the imagination and I have yet to learn 100% to own my power and not use it for the wrong causes.