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Author Topic:   Who's bored of ...." Nice guys "
VenusDeLionesse
Knowflake

Posts: 99
From: mumbai,india
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 03, 2009 06:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDeLionesse     Edit/Delete Message
I have forwarded this to the many nice guys to happen to be friends and confess that they are considering turning into jerks or PUA's because women dont appreciate them....tchtch

================================================

heartless-bitches.com

You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless ***** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like **** , because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...


{{ has happened to EVERY Nice guy as well as NICE GIRL i know }}


Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

{{ OMGAWD - the above is the perfect description for so many men who have tried to be friends with me hoping it'll go somewhere and the friends who complain about women }}

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VenusDeLionesse
Knowflake

Posts: 99
From: mumbai,india
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 03, 2009 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDeLionesse     Edit/Delete Message
They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.


Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."


{{ Never thought of it that way }}

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

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VenusDeLionesse
Knowflake

Posts: 99
From: mumbai,india
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 03, 2009 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VenusDeLionesse     Edit/Delete Message
More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

{{ Isnt that also the problem with many of or our GF's who often pick up such lost causes ? }}

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

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PeaceAngel
Moderator

Posts: 1025
From: peace.angel@live.com.au
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 07:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
I don't think nice guys are insecure. I think nice guys are just simply nice guys. Maybe too nice for some women, that's all.

My personal preference is for the Dark Knight over the White Knight.

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cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake

Posts: 488
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpn_edgar_winner     Edit/Delete Message
there is nothing wrong with being nice, be it a man or a woman. it doesn't cost a dime to be nice.

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 123
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted July 04, 2009 08:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
When I saw that site, I saw it featuring guys who PRETENDED to be nice in order to get into a woman's pants, and being bitter when women saw right through him. An extreme example would be the guys who do favors for women but feel they're entitled to sex in return (who unfortunately exist for real).

There were also some features of passive aggressive guys, spineless guys who would still smother you and/or want you to be his mother instead of partner, etc.

But it wasn't a website begging for guys to be jerks or bad boys.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
well....I agree with some of the stuff that was written about nice guys.

I used to like a woman named Traci, and she rejected me for a guy that had this nice,charming guy image. He was mixed race like I was,and he's Canadian. He has a deep voice with a French accent.

the gal fell for him. I knew that they liked each other because I saw their synastry! Yes...Astrology really does work! I knew that they were going to fall in love before they did! He turned out to be an alcoholic (I got that impression of him only a few months of knowing him) who had history of beating women. She didn't find out until 3 years later after she got together with him. She was emotionally abused by him. Her intelligence was belittled by his condescension. She has Dyslexia and ADHD, and she worked with daycare/preschool special education needs children. I didn't know about the former for years, but I did know about the latter which was one of the reasons that I was very attracted to her. I even told her about my history of being special education needs child myself. That was before I realized about my own neurodivergence. She was the first woman that I liked that I opened so quickly about myself. She used to work with adults with mental retardation. She's a very loving,caring woman, but she's definitely been taken advantage of in relationships. She tends to be very submissive.
She felt sympathy for the Canadian man. She overlooked what faults that he had, but she didn't realize to the extent they were.

Now she's with another nice guy, but he's different. He's very spiritual. Heck..he even talked about wanting to be a monk. She's been married to him. They are thinking of creating a computer game that help people with learning differences too.
I actually asked her to be a consultant.

so there are jerks who pose as "nice guys" and prey on nice women. Many guys do that actually. There is no wonder that many gals have trust issues and then when they do find nice guys, they have doubts about them. A lot of guys do treat women like crap. It's also the other way around too. I would say that a lot more men treat women like crap compared to women that treat men like crap.
I feel that nobody should tolerate an abusive partner. I believe in zero tolerance when it comes to abuse in any shape or form. A slap across the face by either gender is a form of abuse in my opinion. I have watch many movies and shows, and it seems like it's ok for a woman to slap a man. I don't think that's right. If a partner slapped me, I would take it as a form of abuse and I would break up with her.

I also want to point out that some nice guys that do come off "wimpy","pushover", and are insecure,and get taken advantage of might actually be men with Dyspraxia.


"The following is from a Dyspraxia page:

A non-dyspraxic partner can criticize their dyspraxic partner in a cruel way in front of their children and encourage the children to join in with the ridicule. A woman living with dyspraxia may have difficulties maintaining the perfect fashionable groomed appearance portrayed by the media, due to her co-ordination difficulties. She may have problems brushing her hair and putting on make-up. She may choose clothes that are easy to fasten which may not be the latest fashion, causing their partner to criticisce her for not making an effort to look good for him.
A dyspraxic male may be br belitled by his partner for his attempts at DIY and sports.

A mother living with dyspraxia may have difficulties with childcare, this may be criticised if the dyspraxia is not recognised or the father may refuse to help and ignore her needs. This added stress can make mild dyspraxia more severe.

Dyspraxics of either gender can be easily manipulated by their partners and may tolerate emotional and physical abuse rather than deciding to live as a single person and feel that they would not cope on their own or may be trapped by financial circumstances.

In my experience both men and women who live with dyspraxia suffer bullying and discrimination from an early age. This results in internalised oppression and low self-esteem. This can continue when she/he is an adult if his/her dyspraxia is misunderstood at work. Partners who are controlling are more likely to choose a person who has low self-esteem in a relationship, because of their venerability. Especially if he/she has not developed the self-confidence to make decisions for her/himself, due to low expectations and of society, others lack of understanding or due to the label dyspraxia. This learned helplessness can affect a dyspraxic person’s’ self esteem and also explain the circumstances of isolation and dependence and isolation in which those people find themselves.
http://www.colsal.org.uk/sites/daa/DOMESTICVIOLENCE.asp

Dyspraxic males tend not fit the traditional male stereotypes,and so that turn off most females..especially the ones that prefer the macho types. Out of the defense of the females, there is nothing wrong with that at all. It's just the natural order of things. The societal norms. I also feel that because the Dyspraxic males are different from other males, they might even be held under suspicion by women because they seem so different and nice, so they must be weak,gay, incompetent,and other things. They may even think that they will later on just turn out be just another typical guy. Some Dyspraxic guys try to be like a typical guy because they are foolish to believe that women go for that because they want strong,macho,take charge men, and they end up regretting it. Of course, there is the intimate,sexual stuff. The coordination problems of Dyspraxic men can make it hard for them to have intercourse. Even if Dyspraxic male is sexually experienced, he can tend to be so clumsy and disorganized like he's having sex for the very first time,and he could have anxiety when it comes to sex. He might not have the control and stamina to last as long as the average male. He might be too sensitive to touch,and that can adversely affect intercourse even though he could be aroused easily because of that same sensitivity. The Dyspraxic male tends to be far more emotionally sensitive than many females in general, and that could give the impression to many females that the man is emotionally weak,a sissy,or even gay as well as immature and childish.
There are also people that might believe in eugenics,and so there are people that wouldn't want to have children with Dyspraxic males because they are viewed as having bad genes because Dyspraxia is viewed as a disorder that could be passed down to children and can cause significant challenges and hardships. It takes a lot of patience and care to deal with a Dyspraxic child, and many people lack that patience to deal with a child with special education needs like Dyspraxic children have. There is nothing wrong with that. People have their preferences for who they want to be parents of their children. Tolerance and patience vary in people.


I can see both sides of the issue about whether or not to be in a relationship with a Dyspraxic male.

I know that there is a strong possibility that a relationship with a Dyspraxic male could end up being a co-dependent relationship with the Dyspraxic male tending to be the dependent one. There is a feeling that could happen. The nonDyspraxic partner could feel like the Dyspraxic man is not doing his share of things. His forgetfulness,absentminded,and disorganization might be see as being evasive,deceptive,and irresponsible. She can feel like he's incompetent and cannot take care of her and her children. She might feel that she's the more the grownup even if she's considerably younger than him. The Dyspraxic male might even feel that he's a burden, and so he can end up pushing her way. He could end up isolating himself. Then he give the impression of being a detached type. There is also the possibility if he's very stressed,he could have an emotional meltdown. The woman who doesn't have the same type of emotional nature as the Dyspraxic might be scared of the Dyspraxic.


The Dyspraxic male is a very complexed person.

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

I included the following because this can pertain to neurodivergent men in relationships that can give the impression of the "nice guys finish last" type with the issues of insecurity and other issues that lead them to have problems in relationships with women.


This is from the site, LD Pride
the article is about Top Five Emotional Difficulties of Adults with Learning Disabilities.


1. Shame

People growing up with a learning disability often feel a sense of shame. For some, it is a great relief to receive the diagnosis while for others the label only serves to further stigmatize them. For many adults, especially older adults, an accurate diagnosis was unavailable. These individuals were frequently labeled as mentally retarded, written off as being unable to learn, and most passed through the school system without acquiring basic academic skills.

Sadly, these feelings of shame often cause the individual to hide their difficulties. Rather than risk being labeled as stupid or accused of being lazy, some adults deny their learning disability as a defense mechanism. Internalized negative labels of stupidity and incompetence usually result in a poor self concept and lack of confidence (Gerber, Ginsberg, & Reiff, 1992)

Some adults feel ashamed of the type of difficulties they are struggling to cope with such as basic literacy skills, slow processing, attention difficulties, chronic forgetfulness, organizational difficulties, etc.

The following myths about learning disabilities have perpetuated the general public’s negative perception about learning disabilities:

Myth #1

People with learning disabilities have below average intelligence and cannot learn.

Fact

People with learning disabilities have average to above average intelligence (Gerber. 1998). In fact, studies indicate that as many as 33% of students with LD are gifted (Baum, 1985; Brody & Mills, 1997; Jones, 1986). With proper recognition, intervention and lots of hard work, children and adults with learning disabilities can learn and succeed!

Myth #2

Learning disabilities are just an excuse for irresponsible, unmotivated or lazy people.

Fact

Learning disabilities are caused by neurological impairments not character flaws. In fact, the National Information Centre for Adults and Youth with Disabilities makes a point of saying that people with learning disabilities are not lazy or unmotivated (NICHCY , 2002).

Myth #3

Learning disabilities only affect children. Adults grow out of learning disabilities.

Fact

It is now known that LD continues throughout the individual’s lifespan and “may even intensify in adulthood as tasks and environmental demands change” (Michaels, 1994a). Sadly, many adults, especially older adults, have never been formally diagnosed with a learning disability. In fact, the majority of people with learning disabilities are not diagnosed until they reach adulthood (LDA, 1996)

Myth #4

Dyslexia and learning disability are the same thing.

Fact

Dyslexia is a type of learning disability. It is not a another term for learning disability. It is a specific language based disorder affecting a person’s ability to read, write and verbally express themselves. Unfortunately, careless use of the term has expanded it so that it has become, for some, an equivalent for "learning disability".

Myth #5

Learning disabilities are only academic in nature. They do not affect other areas of a person’s life.

Fact

Some people with learning disabilities have isolated difficulties in reading, writing or mathematics. However, most people with learning disabilities have more than one area of difficulty. Dr. Larry Silver asserts that "learning disabilities are life disabilities". He writes, “The same disabilities that interfere with reading, writing, and arithmetic also will interfere with sports and other activities, family life, and getting along with friends." (Silver, 1998)

Typically, students with LD have other major difficulties in one or more of the following areas:

*

motor coordination
*

time management
*

attention
*

organizational skills
*

processing speed


*

Social skills needed to make friends and maintaining relationships
*

emotional maturation
*

verbal expression
*

memory

Many adults with learning disabilities have difficulty in performing basic everyday living tasks such as shopping, budgeting, filling out a job application form or reading a recipe. They may also have difficulty with making friends and maintaining relationships. Vocational and job demands create additional challenges for young people with learning disabilities.

Myth #6

Adults with learning disabilities cannot succeed in higher education.

Fact

More and more adults with learning disabilities are going to college or university and succeeding (Gerber and Reiff 1994). With the proper accommodations and support, adults with learning disabilities can be successful at higher education.

2. Fear

Another emotional difficulty for adults with learning disabilities is fear. This emotion is often masked by anger or anxiety. Tapping into the fear behind the anger and/or the anxiety response is often the key for adults to cope with the emotional fallout of learning disabilities.

Feelings of fear may be related one or more of the following issues:

*

fear of being found out
*

fear of failure
*

fear of judgment or criticism
*

fear of rejection

Fear of Being Found Out

Many adults with learning disabilities live with fear of being found out. They develop coping strategies to hide their disability. For example, an adult who can hardly read might pretend to read a newspaper. Other adults may develop gregarious personalities to hide their difficulties or focus on other abilities that do not present learning barriers. Unfortunately some adults will have developed negative strategies such as quitting their job rather than risking the humiliation of being terminated because their learning disability makes it difficult for them to keep up with work demands.

The fear of being found out is particularly troublesome for many older adults who have never been diagnosed with a learning disability or those who received inappropriate support. Such adults were frequently misdiagnosed with mental retardation, inappropriately placed in programs for the mentally disabled, and/or stigmatized by teachers and classmates. In later life, these adults often return to learning through adult literacy programs in order make up for lost educational opportunities. Seeking help is a difficult step forward for these adults because it requires them to stop hiding their disability. The simple act of entering a classroom can be an anxiety producing experience for adults who have been wrongly labeled and/or mistreated by the educational system. For these adults, returning to a learning environment is truly an act of courage!

Low literacy skills and academic difficulties are not the only type of learning disabilities adults try to hide. Adults with social skill difficulties may live in constant fear of revealing social inadequacies. For example, an adult who has trouble understanding humour, may pretend to laugh at a joke even through they don’t understand it. They may also hide their social difficulties by appearing to be shy and withdrawn. On the other hand, hyperactive adults may cover up their attention difficulties by using a gregarious personality to entertain people.

Fear of Failure

The National Adult Literacy Survey, 1992, found that 58% of adult with self-reported learning disabilities lacked the basic functional reading and writing skills needed to experience job and academic success (Kirsch, 1993). Most of these adults have not graduated high school due to the failure of the school system to recognize and/or accommodate their learning disability. Needless to say, adult literacy programs are a second chance to learn the basic academic skills missed out in public school. As mentioned above, going back into an educational environment is often a fearful experience for adults with learning disabilities. One of the main reasons for this is the fear of failure. Many adults reason that, if they have failed before, what is to stop them failing again and, if they do fail again, then this failure must mean they, themselves, are failures.. The tendency for adults with learning disabilities to personalize failure (i.e. failure makes ME a failure) is perhaps the biggest self-esteem buster for adult learners. Educators need to be aware of these fears to help learner’s understand that failure does not make them a failure and making mistakes is a part of the learning process.

For most people, anxiety about failing is what motivates them to succeed, but for people with learning disabilities this anxiety can be paralyzing. Fear of failure may prevent adults with learning disabilities from taking on new learning opportunities. It might prevent them from participating in social activities, taking on a new job opportunity or enrolling in an adult education course.

One positive characteristic that often helps adults overcome their fear of failure is their ability to come up with innovative strategies to learn and solve problems. These strategies are often attributed to the “learned creativity” that many adults with learning disabilities develop in order to cope with the vocational , social and educational demands in their everyday lives. (Gerber, Ginsberg,& Reiff, 1992).

Fear of Ridicule

Adults with learning disabilities frequently fear the ridicule of others. Sadly, these fears often develop after the individual has been routinely ridiculed by teachers, classmates or even family members. The most crushing of these criticisms usually relates to a perceived lack of intelligence or unfair judgments about the person’s degree of motivation or ability to succeed. For example, comments such as “you’ll never amount to anything”, “you could do it if you only tried harder”, or the taunting of classmates about being “in the mental retard class” have enormous emotional effects on individuals with learning disabilities. For many of these adults, especially those with unidentified learning disabilities, these and other negative criticisms, continue to affect their emotional well-being into their adult years. It is not uncommon for adults to internalize the negative criticisms and view themselves as dumb, stupid, lazy, and/or incompetent. Such negative criticisms often fuel the fear adults with learning disabilities have about being found out.

Fear of Rejection

Adults with learning disabilities frequently fear rejection if they are not seen to be as capable as others. If they come from a middle to upper class family where academic achievement is a basic expectation for its members, fear of rejection may be a very real concern. They may also fear that their social skill deficits will preclude them from building meaningful relationships with others and may lead to social rejection. Prior experiences of rejection will likely intensify this sense of fear.

3. Environmental and Emotional Sensitivity

Environmental Sensitivities

Adults are often overwhelmed by too much environmental stimuli (e.g. background noise, more than one person talking at a time, side conversations, reading and listening at the same time). Many people with LD and ADD have specific sensitivities to their environment such as certain fabrics they cannot wear, foods they cannot tolerate, etc.

Emotional Sensitivity

Many adults with learning disabilities see themselves as more emotionally sensitive than other people In its most extreme form, high levels of emotional sensitivity are both a blessing and a weakness. The positive features of this trait helps adults with learning disabilities build meaningful relationships with others. For example, they are often very intuitive and in-tune with both their own and other people's emotions. Sometimes they are actually able to perceive other's thoughts and feelings. However, this strength also serves as weakness due to its propensity to overwhelm the individuals. Emotional difficulties occur when they are unable to cope with the onslaught of emotions they are feeling. Highly sensitive adults with LD may be moved to tears more easily or feel their own and other people’s pain more deeply. For example, Thomas West, writer of "The Minds Eye", not only gives a thorough explanation of Winston Churchill's learning disability, but also describes his sensitive nature. West details Churchill's tendency to break into tears quite easily" (West, 1997) even out in the public eye. He notes one incident in which Churchill was moved to tears after witnessing the devastating effects of a bomb.

This description of Churchill also serves to highlight the strong sense of justice that many adults with learning disabilities possess. Unfortunately, this sense of justice often serves as a double edged sword. On one hand, it is refreshing to behold the passion of many of these individuals in their fight to overcome injustice. While on the other hand, this very passion, when it crosses the line into aggression, can cause social rejection and/or emotional overload. Often the individual may be unaware that their behavior has turned aggressive. They only wish make their point known and have others understand it. This type of over reaction is not a purposeful attempt to hurt anybody. It is more likely to be caused by a difficulty with monitoring their emotions and consequent behavior.

4. Emotional Regulation

Difficulties with regulating emotions are common for highly sensitive adults with learning disabilities. Dr. Kay Walker, describes the connection between learning disabilities and self-regulation problems in her paper “Self Regulation and Sensory Processing for Learning, Attention and Attachment”. She asserts that self-regulation problems frequently occur in those with learning disabilities (Walker, 2000) In its most extreme form, individual may easily shift from one emotion to the next. Others may experience difficulty regulating impulsive thoughts or actions.

Fortunately, most adults have learned to handle their emotional sensitivity to avoid becoming overwhelmed or engaging in negative social interactions. Nevertheless, some adults may be so deeply affected that they become depressed or suffer from anxiety. A lack of school, job and/or social success will likely add to this emotional burden. Some adults with LD, especially those who have been ridiculed by their family members, teachers and/or peers, may be more apt to take criticism to heart because of their experiences and/or their ultra-sensitive nature. Emotional wounds from childhood and youth may cause heightened emotional responses to rejection. In turn, social anxiety and social phobia may result

5. Difficulty Adjusting to Change

Change is scary for everyone, but for people with learning disabilities and other neurological disabilities, change may be particularly difficult. Children with learning disabilities may prefer procedures to stay the same and have a hard time moving from one activity to another. Usually this difficulty becomes less of an issue as the child matures. However, adults with learning disabilities may still experience difficulty adjusting to change in more subtle ways . For example, some adults will have trouble moving from one work task to another without completely finishing the first task before moving on to the next one. Adults with learning disabilities are frequently described as inflexible when it comes to considering another person’s view point or a different way of doing something.

Adjustment to change is difficult for adults with LD because change brings the unexpected. In general, people with learning disabilities are less prepared for the unexpected. The unexpected may bring new learning hurdles, new job demands or new social challenges. Since all these areas can be affected by learning disabilities, it is no wonder why change can produce so much anxiety for adults with learning disabilities.

To avoid the tendency to blame the person for their lack of flexibility, it is important to understand the neurological basis for this difficulty with adjusting to change. With this said, through social skills practice, adults with learning disabilities can improve their ability to tolerate change. In addition, parents, instructors, and other professionals can help adults with learning disabilities by making transition processes easier through understanding and accommodating the adults’ needs.
http://ldpride.net/emotions.htm


Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

The following is about dealing with neurodivergence in relationships. It's about solutions to prevent problems in relationships involving neurodivergence.


Dealing with Learning Disabilities in Relationships

By: Brita Miller (1999)

Learning disabilities may present many challenges to the individual other than the obvious. They can have a great impact on relationships and personal interactions. The effects are experienced by persons with learning disabilities and their partners. The problems can manifest themselves in a variety of situations.

A person with learning disabilities may be frustrated about the way a partner provides assistance by feeling stifled when too much is routinely provided, which may give rise to the perception that he or she is stupid or being treated like a child. Also, he or she may feel unfairly blamed for relationship problems, such as not listening or not trying hard enough, which may be due to his/her learning disabilities.

The partner without learning disabilities may experience resentment at having to continually tend to the needs of the other, while many of his/her needs may seem to go unmet.

As everyone has good and bad days, so do individuals with learning disabilities, but theirs are often much more pronounced and frequent. Their capabilities can vary widely from day to day without any predictable patterns or identifiable causes.

Since learning disabilities often are not visible, both partners may have difficulty understanding and accepting the limitations they create. No matter who has the disability, the problems must be worked out together. It is important to distinguish between difficulties which can be overcome (using strategies and accommodations) and those which are not likely to change.

The following are some helpful tips that may be useful for partners who have learning disabilities:

* Have a good understanding of the way in which the learning disabilities affect your ability to process information, communicate, etc.
* Explain to your partner how the learning disabilities interfere with many aspects of everyday life.
* Request accommodations in a direct manner without feeling guilty or giving excuses.
* To maintain credibility with others, avoid "crying wolf."
* Accept that some tasks may take longer.
* Be as self-reliant as possible by finding alternatives to overburdening your partner.

These tips may be useful for the partner of a person who has a learning disability:

* Try to recognize, specifically, how the learning disability impacts your partner's ability to: pay attention, comprehend, conceptualize, visualize, communicate, be organized, follow conversations, interpret body language, etc.
* Be aware that what appears to be a simple and logical way to carry out a task for you may not be the most logical way for the person with learning disabilities. Persuading the partner to "just do it this way" is not necessarily helpful. Conversely, you should accept that what seems like a roundabout method may, in fact, be the easiest way for your partner to complete the task.
* Remember that the learning disability thought process may manifest itself in a nonlinear fashion, which may seem confusing.
* Refrain from demanding that your partner "try harder" to correct a disability. This would be like expecting a deaf person to hear by trying harder.
* Be aware that "symptoms" of the learning disabilities may be more apparent at the end of the day or when your partner is fatigued.

Socially constructed gender roles may compound the effects of learning disabilities. For instance, men have traditionally been designated as breadwinners. This has not been realistic for some men with learning disabilities who have had difficulties with job stability and career advancement. A couple can reduce the stress they feel by creating more realistic expectations and redefining their roles according to each person's abilities, rather than tradition.

Although couples may feel that learning disabilities are a unique problem, they are shared by a great number of people. Due to the close interaction of a relationship, the effects of learning disabilities are often greatly magnified, thus creating additional stress for the couple. It is only with hard work and a lot of understanding that these problems may be resolved.
http://www.ldonline.org/article/6007

Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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Glaucus
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Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

I have the book,
THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON IN LOVE by Dr. Elaine Aron.

In the book, she makes some very good points about highly sensitive males,and how they can have problems in society for not fitting in the male stereotypes. Because of that, they can be rejected by many women that prefer the typical male...even by highly sensitive women who might just see highly sensitive men as "he's just a friend".

It's very interesting. I feel that the stuff fits with the nice guys threads.

Raymond


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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
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posted July 04, 2009 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

page 50 to 52

of HOW GENDER PREJUDICES DAMAGE RELATIONSHIPS FOR HIGHLY SENSITIVE MEN

from THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON IN LOVE book by Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.

HSMs are trickier to study than HSW's. There are as many men as women born highly sensitive, but adult women score higher on the HSP Self-Test, no matter how I work to avoid sex-biased items. Given our culture, I am sure there is no way to write a self-test of sensitivity that men could answer without the interference of a conscious or unconscious fear of being seen as unmanly. So I know now I am writing mainly to men unscarred enough to embrace their sensitivity without defensiveness, or so sensitive they can't ignore it. As a result, most of you do not think of yourselves as "typical males." This turns out to be potentially very good for your relationships. But it is a source of many of your problems as well, with the other gender and your own.

Feeling like a Failed Man

"He's a real man" ---somehow you have to prove that's you, or you'll be in big trouble. That's the burden of men in this culture, and much of this fear and need to prove take place in boyhood, when sexism most narrowly defines the ideal male's behavior. At that age a "real man" should be tough and cool---that is, have no no deep thoughts to conform to the crowd. He should be spontaneous, even recklessly impulsive, rather than reflective. He should be fiercely and successfully competitive, especially in team sports. He should be outgoing without needing people or showing any vulnerability---that is,not truly intimate. He never cries and rarely shows any emotion, especially not fear,shame,or response. In short, he is not highly sensitive. And by that logic, a highly sensitive man is not a "real man."

William Pollack, Harvard psychologist and author of Real Boys has spent twenty years studying boys in our culture. He points out that, at birth, male infants actually seem to be more emotionally expressive than females. But by elementary school, most of that is gone, thanks to a gender straitjacket enforced by what he calls the Boy Code. According to the code, boys and men must not, above all, express their feelings. This rule constrains not only boys, "but everyone else, reducing us all as human being,and eventually making us strangers to ourselves and to one another."
Spencer Koffman, a San Francisco psychotherapist and HSM writing for the HSP newsletter, Comfort Zone, describes his own experience with the Boy Code.

Boys are enlisted into "gender bootcamp" at a very early age, where they are taught to be good Warrior/Kings. One of my earliest memories of this indoctrination comes from first grade. I fell off the jungle-gym. I wasn't seriously hurt, but the shock of the fall caused me to cry. The uniform reaction from every boy and teacher was not to console me, but to point out that boys do not cry. That was the first and last time that I cried in school. I was in training to become "a little soldier."

I do not want to claim that only HSM's suffer from the Boy Code, but HSM's have far harder time living up to it. You are especially affected in your relationships with women, who bring the culture's prejudices home in hurtful ways they seem unaware of, such as confiding in you as a friend but not seeing you as sexually interesting. As a result, you can be as shy of the other gender as they are of you, but your "love-shyness has more serious consequences.


Love-shyness is a term coined by sociologist Brian Gilmartin, who has studied that small but troubled set of heterosexual men who have become too shy to initiate a romantic sexual relationship or marry, although they desperately want to. If you are love-shy, you simply expect to be rejected romantically, mainly because of your sensitivity. Although most HSMs are not love-shy men by this definition, most very love-shy men are HSMs. And I think love-shyness paints an extreme picture of what most HSM's fear or experience to a lesser degree.

Of course, the term can apply to many HSW's too, who both want and fear men's attentions as desperately as love-shy men want women's love. For either gender, love-shyness is a direct result of sexism, working with special toxicity on HSPs, with our extra reasons to fear being judged as not a "real man" or "real woman." However love-shyness is a more devastating problem for HSMs, because in matters of romance, men in this culture traditionally are supposed to make the first move. It is more acceptable now for women to show interest first, but it is still expected that, being a man, you will then respond to decisively and take charge. A woman can stall and "play hard to get," but you are not given that leeway. So what happens to your strong innate preference as an HSP to pause and check before acting, to see if you will like the person you are approaching and if she will like you? Having to leap before you look in order to seem manly means you must override your own temperament. If you can't, you are likely to remain without a partner.

Gilmartin interviewed 300 love-shy men, ages 19 to 50, and also compared the younger men with those who were older---still virgins after age 35. He also interviewed 200 college men who were not shy with women. The love-shy men had much more unhappy childhoods than the non-love-shy, and the older cases more than the younger ones. But most love-shy men also reported the numerous physical sensitivities that would be normal for all HSPs---allergies,a rapid knee-jerk response, and being unusually bothered by wool, insect bites, extremely hot or cold weather, the shorter days of winter, bright sunlight, pain and sudden or annoying sounds, like that of chalk grating on a blackboard. The combination of unhappy childhoods and sensitivity was creating their intense love-shyness.


I will post pages 52 to 55 later.


Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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koiflower
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Posts: 397
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
That's really interesting reading about HSM. It does make sense about being sensitive to the environment is a clue to emotional sensitivity. This can be applied to women, aswell.

I'm thinking now in terms of the nervous system (which is the expressway for the brain).

If we are made up of only 25 elements, then what combination of elements gives us that sensitivity?

I'm also wondering about the brain's hemispheres in playing a part in autism. People with autism cope better with facts (left side). Is one side of the brain reactive to different elements than the other side?

...... will go away and ponder this idea

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2009 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

pages 52 - 55

of HOW GENDER PREJUDICES DAMAGE RELATIONSHIPS FOR HIGHLY SENSITIVE MEN

from THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON IN LOVE book by Elaine Aron PhD

Where's Daddy? Absent and Dismissive Fathers Revisited


Sensitive boys definitely suffer from the absence or indifference of their fathers far more than non-HSMs. Fathers not only teach boys how to be in the world, but in particular how to handle feelings successfully as men in this culture. A boy raised only by his mother can miss out on that help.
A great deal has been written about the negative effects on young men of the lack of the involved fathers and the even greater lack of male mentors, who instead compete with young men and try to keep them down. Male elders are seen as betrayers who, for example, send young men off to wars they would not fight themselves and fail to see that these soldiers are honored and healed on their return. As an HSM, you may even believe you do not deserve better attention from older men, not having been able to adhere as well to the Boy Code. Maybe you believe you not really a part of the exclusive male club everyone else admires.

The Complexities Created by a Sensitive Boy's Sympathy For His Mother

Seeing the harm done to women by men, possibly hard done by own father, you may have felt a deep division in your loyalties, and great compassion for your own mother in particular.
This may have been generalized to all women,
so that you saw them as being like you, bullied
by tough guys. But his sympathy can obviously alienate you from your own gender. You will feel, in a sense, a traitor in the gender wars---and in the end admired by neither side. This feeling can be augmented if you sensed subtle signs that your mother may have appreciated you as confidant or companion, but again, not as a "real man"---remember the research on "shy" sons being their mothers' least favorite children.
Finally, if you had this kind of strong connection with your mother in our culture you probably saw yourself as a "mama's boy," which means being feminine, which means in our culture being weak,inferior. It would be easy to come to hate, perhaps only unconsciously, both the "weak,second-rate" gender you have been relegated to and your own gender, for its aggressions against you and women. You are left in literal no-man's-land. And who do you trust, with whom do you confide your deepest feelings? Men? Women? or neither?

More on the Fear of Being Weak or Feminine

As I sat down one day for lunch with an HSM, the eater brought us our menus and said, "May I get anything to drink for you ladies?"
I was flooded with embarassment for my friend, who is slight of build but otherwise looks and acts, to me like a totally typical male. I was furious as well. Another HSM put the anger into words for me, in response to my telling him about the incident:

See, the Boy Code becomes the Man-Code---subtle, but always waiting to undercut you just when you let down your guard. Why was he seen as feminine? Because HSMs are being human beings---not iron driven robots---and the real name for being human in this culture is "feminine." What's wrong with being feminine/human? Nothing. But the reality is, in our culture, being like a woman is seen as an insult. So any man, HSM or not, if does not want to be marginalized, has to play the game and learn to be okay with this robot role (or to find corners of society where it is not so emphasized). But I hope we see HSMs know inside that we are the leading edge of a new, nonpatriarchal world.

Besides happening to be slight of build like my friend (not even an HSP trait), I suppose an HSM might be perceived as feminine for seeming to show, as many women do, an understandable subtle alertness to the possibility of physical attack---a vigilance augmented by all HSP's sensitivity to pain. As Gilmartin says, sensitivity to pain "can have an extremely negative affect upon a male's ability to get along successfully with the his same-sex peer group. Such fears can render a male child highly vulnerable to persistent bullying," that is, it makes him as easy to bully as a girl, especially a sensitive girl.
Or maybe HSMs seem feminine because you do not control or subtly dominate others, or because you seem to be a person who shows your feelings---something not done by those who must always be in control. Or because you seem to be more sad or anxious than other men. As I already said, my research indicates that HSPs with troubled childhoods will evidence greater depression and anxiety. This result is mainly due to the fact that non-HSMs seem unusually unaffected by childhood problems. Women and HSMs with troubled childhoods feel the resulting feelings.
Maybe non-HSMs handle troubled childhoods better because life is just easier for them. But many do not truly handle the pain better---they simply stuff down their feelings. When an I'm-fine-I-don't-need-anyone attitude is used to coverup a deep sense of inadequacy, it is called a narcissistic defense, and it is employed far more by men than women, and far more by non-HSMs than HSMs. Again, HSMs and all women (HSPs or not) with troubled pasts on the average react to their troubles. They are disturbed. But this is interpreted as feminine.
The trouble with narcissistic defense, in a man or woman, is when feelings about fear or need are shut off, one must be sure those feelings stay forgotten by shutting off awareness of anyone else's fears or needs too. As a result, narcissist can use people without seeming to see the effect on those he or she uses---hardly the sort of person one wants in a close relationship. It is almost as if men with troubled childhoods are given a strange choice of either rigid narcissismor not being seen as "real men." Personally, I likeless narcissism, what most HSMs choose. I'd far rather livein a world where people do not deny their basic human feelings, even if these are fear or sadness.


Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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Glaucus
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Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
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posted July 05, 2009 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

page 56 to 57s
from
THE HIGHLY SENSITIVE PERSON IN LOVE by Elaine Aron, PhD

Low Self-Esteem

For HSM's, this same lack of confidence seems to emanate from failing to meet the Boy Code. Maybe you violated it by being too creative and "different," crying or blushing easily, or being bothered by things "tough guys" don't notice---heat,cold,water in your eyes,itchy clothing.

Further, both HSWs and HSMs can have trouble being "cool" that strange ideal. We are easily overaroused by stimulation, so instead of looking cool, we often look nervous and perform poorly in competitive or high-pressure situations, including with a romantic partner we are just getting to know. As a result of all the pressure and low self-esteem, we may develop anxiety-related problems---a "nervous stomach," rashes,phobias,stuttering,shyness. These lower confidence and a sense of being attractive even more.


Poor Boundaries

For HSMs, the issues is that "real men" are expected to have overly rigid boundaries---to pay little attention to others' needs, their emotional needs especially. At the same time, men are expected to meet the needs of women in particular---especially their need to be protected. It's that impossible contradiction again. No matter how overwhelmed a man is himself, he must perform. But in what way? So this is another case where, as an HSM just trying to be yourself, you may be accused not only of being codependent but of being feminine as well if you attend to the emotional need of others. Or you may be accused of allowing yourself to be controlled by a woman, if it is a woman's emotional needs you are attending to. Or else you are seen as "not up to" fully meeting all of woman's needs, always. And if, due to overarousal and conflict, you shut down completely, you are seen as not sensitive!

pages 149 to 150
A WORD TO HSWS WITH SUPPOSEDLY NON-HSM PARTNERS

As I mentioned in the first paragraph of this chapter, more HSPs think they are with non-HSPs than actually are. This seems especially true of HSWs. The classic gender-war issue is that a woman is all too sensitive to a man's feelings and sick of his inability to reciprocate. But suppose your supposedly non-HSM partner is actually an HSM who has carefully covered up his sensitivity due to early and intense indoctrination into the Boy Code (see chapter 2). On top of this, suppose he has had a difficult early childhood? Being a man, he is more likely to have adopted an avoidant-dismissive attachment style and to seem disinterested in having or showing feelings, especially feelings of need or of caring for others.
It can be very threatening to such a man that you as an HSW are so interested in deep feelings. He fears being lured into that dangerous area where he will be exposed as vulnerable and not a "real man." Would you leave him if he cried or needed you desperately? Or because it seems he never will? Or could you instead use your own sensitivity to attune yourself to his defenses and coax his sensitivity and vulnerability out into the open? And if not completely out into the open with you, could you help him accept his need for psychotherapy? If you think about the problems on this planet, there are so many men who need the help of an HSW. It's not your duty to help them all, or even this one. If it isn't right for you. But perhaps if he can appreciate your efforts to help, listen to your own struggles without too much judgment, and give even a little back, it would indeed be right for you.


Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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Glaucus
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Posts: 633
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 05, 2009 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"That's really interesting reading about HSM. It does make sense about being sensitive to the environment is a clue to emotional sensitivity. This can be applied to women, aswell."

"I'm thinking now in terms of the nervous system (which is the expressway for the brain)."

Yes...Elaine Aron writes that highly sensitive people have highly sensitive nervous systems. She even writes that it's equally distributed in genders. Therefore, females aren't the dominant gender when it comes to having a highly sensitive nervous system even though it's naturally viewed as a feminine trait. If males show that trait,then they are viewed as being feminine even though the trait is actually gender neutral.

Neurodivergence seems to be found more in males than females. A highly sensitive nervous system is a very common thing for neurodivergent people.

The LD Pride site mentions Elaine Aron, PhD and how neurodivergents tend to be highly sensitive people http://www.ldpride.net/sensitivity.htm

here is the site for the book
with the overall gist of it

The Highly Sensitive Person In Love
by Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.

button: HS Person In Love Why did I turn to this topic? First, a corny sounding reason, but so true: The world needs love. And I believe HSPs are meant to bring much of that love to light. But we need help with intimacy, I have found. Maybe we are afraid, have been hurt, and can't forget it. Or we have trouble being known and appreciated for who we really are. Or we have trouble in relationships because of our different needs, so that we always feel "too much" or "overly sensitive."

Second, before I began studying HSPs, my husband (a social psychologist) and I were very engaged in psychological research on love and close relationships--and we still are. Indeed, in that field we are considered preeminent leaders, although neither of us has ever written on the topic for the public. This book will teach you quite a bit about what's been uncovered by solid research about relationships. Plus, it unveils my most recent results on HSPs and relationships. You won't find that blend or those new results anywhere else.

Third, for over thirty years I've been an HSP married to a non-HSP--some of it pretty stormy--so I have considerable experience with how temperament impacts a relationship!

The Truth About The "Divorce Gene"
Most of us assume that the success of a relationship between friends or lovers depends on having good communication skills or sharing similar interests. But consider this: A 1995 study found that 50 percent of the risk of divorce is genetically determined. Does this mean success and fulfillment in social life are inherited? What can we do about that?

The single largest reason for this genetic effect is not a "divorce gene," I'm certain. (To say something is genetically determined doesn't clarify much--wearing skirts or owning a rifle is almost totally "genetically determined," thanks to the genes for gender plus a lot of cultural moderators.) Genetics enter into marriage because of the way that certain inherited temperaments cause trouble in relationships. They cause trouble only because most of us are totally ignorant about the reality of the drastic differences that can exist among nervous systems. But with the right guidance, the many "mismatches" in this world can have the most fulfilling relationships of all.

HSPs in Love
Let's start with the temperament we know, sensitivity. About 20% of us are highly sensitive persons (HSPs); at least 34% of love relationships involve an HSP. And everyone has at least one HSP friend. I have found that when HSPs aren't understood by themselves and others, that spells trouble. That's surely part of why my data show that, on the average HSPs, are a bit happier paired with each other. They understand each other.

My data also show that on the average HSPs' relationships in general are less happy--implying that relationships HSPs are in are less happy, at least for the HSP. Why? HSPs have nervous systems that pick up more on subtleties in the world and reflect on them deeply. That means, for starters, that they will tend to demand more depth in their relationships in order to be satisfied; see more threatening consequences in their partners' flaws or behaviors; reflect more and, if the signs indicate it, worry about how things are going.

Because HSPs are picking up on so much, they are also more prone to overstimulation, quicker to feel stress--including the stimulation and stress that can arise in any intense, intimate interactions. They need more down time, which can cause a partner to feel left out. They find different things enjoyable compared to others.

Sensation Seekers In Love
The Highly Sensitive Person in Love also explores, to a lesser degree, the other basic, well researched inherited trait-sensation seeking. Sensation seekers (SSs) are born with a deep curiosity and need to explore. Although this sounds like the opposite of being sensitive, nature planned it otherwise. Different genes and brain systems seem to govern the two traits, so that HSPs can also be SSs. But it certainly complicates their lives. An HSP with very little of this trait, in a relationship with a non-HSP/SS will certainly have a conflict-filled if exciting relationship. Self-tests at the beginning of The Highly Sensitive Person in Love allow individuals and couples to see how they rank on both traits. Even though temperament is invisible, it is very real. I have found many couples in which one person answered every question true on one of these self-tests, the other, false. That makes for a lot of misunderstanding and "what's-the-matter- with-you?'s." No wonder genetics cause 50% of the divorce rate-- this figure represents the many divorces caused by the pairing of persons with extremely different temperaments who have no clue about how the other really experiences life.

What About The Culture?
As with my first book, this one looks carefully at the effect of culture on HSPs--how it makes an HSP feel less desirable, less confident. The problems are special for male HSPs. As many men as women are born sensitive, but the stereotype is that women are sensitive, "real" men are not. Women love to be friends with male HSPs, but want to date and marry non-HSPs. One goal of The Highly Sensitive Person in Love is to help HSP women realize their mistake and HSP men to feel less to blame for their situation.

Another goal is to explore the different ways that HSPs and sensation seekers approach intimacy. HSPs are naturally cautious and reflective before committing. They also have good reason to fear being rejected for being "too sensitive" or overwhelmed by another's needs. Sensation seekers also fear commitment, for quite different reasons--the loss of variety, the fear of boredom.

I provide a self-assessment of eight fears about deep love, then suggests what to do about each. After that, we discuss how to meet someone and fall in love, if that's your desire, whether you would like to meet an HSP or a non-HSP.

Relationship Advice For HSPs
Most important, this book tailors all those relationship self-help books to meet an HSP's needs. For example, it tells partners who are temperamental opposites why they fell in love and how to get along together now. It's not simple. The initial, often extraordinary attraction dissolves fast with familiarity. Then each can feel deeply disappointed with the other, even contemptuous.

Similars can get into trouble too. In fact, my husband and I have been granted large research grants to study the effect of boredom on relationships. Boredom is a special problem for a pair of similars, two HSPs in particular. They may be initially excited to find their similarities, but in time tend to use each other as a sanctuary rather than as a partner in exploring new experiences. This is only one of the problems I address in the chapter on HSP-HSP pairs.

Finally, I also develop six crucial pointers for HSPs in relationships, whatever the temperament of their partner.

No, I Did Not Leave Out Sex or Spirit
A special feature is the chapter on sexuality, based on the first survey ever about the preferred sex practices of different inherited temperaments. Here are whole new standards for "normal." For example, compared to others, HSPs are more likely to find sex to be mysterious and powerful, to be turned on by subtle rather than explicit sexual cues, to be easily distracted or physically hurt during sex, and to find it difficult to go right back to normal life afterwards. Sensation seeking men and women tend to enjoy sex more, want more partners, have had more, and feel they can enjoy "sex without love."

Finally, I am very proud of the chapter on love and spirituality, even though my editors had grave misgivings. I know what HSPs like. Or I hope I do. Let me know how you like The Highly Sensitive Person in Love.

The Highly Sensitive Person In Love
by Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D.


What About The Culture?
As with my first book, this one looks carefully at the effect of culture on HSPs--how it makes an HSP feel less desirable, less confident. The problems are special for male HSPs. As many men as women are born sensitive, but the stereotype is that women are sensitive, "real" men are not. Women love to be friends with male HSPs, but want to date and marry non-HSPs. One goal of The Highly Sensitive Person in Love is to help HSP women realize their mistake and HSP men to feel less to blame for their situation.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/love.htm


This nice guys thread and the HSM stuff made me realize that I should read the Highly Sensitive Person in Love book cover to cover and really focus on the HSM stuff. I admit that I do have insecurities of being an HSM complicated more by my neurodivergence. Therefore, I feel that I need to read that book and really process it. I bought the book back in 2002, but I never read it cover to cover nor in depth in any way. I have recently finished reading Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth,and I found it be very insightful...especially about the painbody. It made me think of Chiron in regards to pain,woundedness,healing,and teaching as well as the overall striving to be whole. I was going to read The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz,and that was a book that my shamanic healer recommended to me. This thread made me realize that I need to read the The High Sensitive Person In Love book next. It has 9 chapters, and I will read 1 chapter per week. Therefore, it will take me 9 weeks to finish it.

I really believe that the book really applies a lot to neurodivergent people. When I have my neurodiversity group, I would like to have a class based on the book for neurodivergent people to understand their high sensitivity and how it works in relationships.


Raymond

------------------
“It is absolutely the perfect name,” Dr. Brown said, given the continuing discord among astronomers and the public over whether Pluto should have retained its planetary status.

In mythology, Eris ignited discord that led to the Trojan War.

“She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them think their opinions are right and everyone else’s is wrong,” Dr. Brown said. “It really is just perfect.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/15/science/space/15xena.html?_r=1

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