posted July 25, 2009 09:19 AM         

sorry everyone, got quite the downer topic i hope you all will put your two cents in.

part 1

so very recently, i got into a discussion about what makes a friend. okay for me, i take that word extremely seriously. there are friends and then there are real friends. for me i consider my friends the people who are part of my family and i would invite to something important like my wedding or a holiday gathering. i was a bit put off that someone had nearly 900 facebook friends. i was like, as if you have 900 friends. he was insistent that they're all his friends. i guess our definition of friend is different. not everyone can be my friend and i don't want to be everyone's friends. i work hard to keep the several great friends i have and to build solid friendships. the schools i went to growing up didn't have like 500 people that attended so it's hard for me to believe one can have 900 friends. i'm sure they're mostly his acquaintances and not necessarily his friend. or maybe i'm way too serious a person and should relax my definition of a friend.

part 2

i have very high moral standards. i try to keep it real, but keep it nice when i am keeping it real. i either tell you the truth or just be like i can't talk about that right now. that's how i get around situations that may require a lie. my true friends tend to be those who tell it like it is. i respect people who tell me the truth because that means they respect me. well, since leaving my home, i've come across a couple of lies but only found out way after the fact through other sources.

this person asked me how long i had been working at my job for and at that time i was like oh about 2.5 years. but i was lamenting about wanting to leave and how everyone around me wanted to leave too. i had also laughed about how people can stay at their jobs for like 10 years or are lifers there. it's just a joke that's common where we work at. so i asked him the same question and he's like oh add about a year and that's how long he's been there for. so fast forward a year later and my friend tells me hey guess what, that dude's been there for like 10 years! he told me because i had told him the story about that guy and he was confused as well over the math. i was bothered that the guy lied to me, yet he felt comfortable enough to tell all these other people he's been there nearly 10 yrs. i felt a bit like oh you don't respect me enough to just tell the truth? i was bothered by it for a long time though i understood why he lied (ie maybe embarrassing since i laughed about it) so that lie, i will allow.

another lie was again something seemingly very trivial but i have standards that i expect from people and one is don't ever lie to me. i felt bad for a friend who was gonna stay home alone on a holiday so a bunch of us had planned on hanging out that day. she was like oh i'll text you if i change my mind but i really just wanna be alone and rest and clean. so i was like okay no worries. on that day, i texted her a hope you're okay msg though she never responded. this person is one of those who can't be alone so if she chooses to be alone then it must be serious.

next day i ask her how her day of cleaning and resting was and she was like oh yeah wasn't able to clean much. fastforward in time and i see photos of her on the holiday smiling and laughing at someone's house. then there's photos of that same day of her out at a restaurant. i even considered that the photos of the previous year but i saw her clothes and it's clothes she bought recently as i have the same shirt. i asked another friend what she thought about this lie and she was like whatever don't take it personal.

i think what upset me more was that this friend who i have known for about 100 yrs had known the truth. that friend actually told her how she went out on the holiday yet lied to me that she stayed at home. that part, i don't get. how can someone tell a lie, then tell someone how they told the lie? it seems very pathological and psycho to me. i held this friend in very high regard. i felt bad for her. i even texted her. and she lied to my face like it was not a thing. i no longer associate with her anymore. as for the friend who didn't even give me the heads up or defend me and was just like shrugs about it....i don't want to see her face anymore either. these are my friends outside of my home so it doesn't matter to me if i cut them out.

so what say you everyone? what do you consider to be a true friend? and do you tolerate lies from friends?

posted July 25, 2009 11:05 AM         

Okay, the story with the guy from work? Maybe I'm missing something or read it wrong, but it seems like some kind of misunderstanding or something, so if you get along fine as co-workers, I wouldn't hold it against him.

The story about the girl on the holiday, well, it seems that she didn't want to go where you were going and possibly didn't want to have to explain or hurt your feelings, so she made up an excuse. This is a pretty common thing, I mean I see people do this sort of thing all time. Especially with holidays, they are such a weird time anyway.
But once my boss asked me to her house for xmas because I was separated and my kids were all going to the inlaws house. I told her no, that I just wanted to be alone. And I did go out. But how do you tell your boss that you don't want to go over to her house because your just not feelin the family thing, and you don't want to be around certain people that she is around, and so forth. Do you see what I mean? Most people are thinking from their own agendas, crappy as it is, it is true.
And not hurting someone's feelings is a not necessarily a bad thing.

As far as the person with 900 friends on facebook, yeah that is ridiculous, I agree. There is no way you could maintain 900 friendships, there is not enough time in life. Obviously he has friendship and acquaintance mixed up.

The term "friend" is kinda thrown around loosely.
In my life, friends are people that have been with me through thick and thin.
These are the people you call when you have to move, and they show up with a truck.
Friends don't ask "why" they ask "when?."
You can get mad at each other, and then resume as if nothing happened a day or so later.
You love friends as much, or sometimes more than family. Because you can't pick your family, but you can pick your friends.

posted July 25, 2009 11:19 AM         

i guess in general, i don't get why people just flat out lie. it doesn't sit well with me. i seem to accept everyone and everything under the sun, but i only ask that you have but a few things in order for me not to close the door on you. one of them is being real with me. i find dishonesty to be highly offensive. i take it on a case by case basis. like with that guy, he was insecure and felt embarrassed as we were making fun about people who stay at one job for more than 5 years. i actually joked and said just watch 10 yrs from now we'll all still be here! i didn't know he had already been there 10 yrs. i don't hold it against him, but i'll keep this mental note in the background whenever i deal with him.

as for that friend who i thought was a friend, it's not about hurt feelings or anything like that. the fact is, she lied to my face then actually told another friend what she did. like it was not a thing. that i don't get. it's like lady, respect me enough to keep it real.

it's like don't think so highly of yourself that your absence will hurt my feelings. i just don't appreciate being lied to. it's like, don't take me for granted and disrespect me. it takes a lot to anger me and to get me upset. people were actually talking about that at work recently. they were like yeah if she actually starts to get upset or says something bad then you KNOW it's serious. it's funny because i'm always the most understanding, empathetic person. i will let people get away with all sorts of things and take them back with no strings attached. why? because that's how i was raised and that's how me and my friends and family are like at home.

however, if someone deceives me or is disloyal, that's when i become all dark and not understanding at all. i will hold a grudge for years and years and years and just not care. i will not forgive her for this nor will i forget. i've already discontinued my friendship with her. i don't deal with dishonest fake people and that's just how i was raised and where i came from. i choose not to understand people like this. ugh these people make me sick.

posted July 25, 2009 06:24 PM         

Yeah, people have different definitions. He probably means he doesn't dislike them and/or he'll be inclined to go along with them on whatever (but expect the same herd loyalty in reverse, too). And if he keeps people at a distance, he could very well define that as true friendship, too.

Others define it differently still, like someone who always agrees, no matter what. At the extreme end of this variation (and it does happen), they'll expect their friends to back them even if it comes to light that they're running a preschool prostitution ring and feel bitterly betrayed if their friends aren't cool with this.

So yeah, your mileage may vary.

Personally, I have my BFFs (Best Friends Forever) & close friends, which would probably total a dozen (I'm being too lazy to count those who are separated by distance, known only by the internet, and/or haven't talked to much in ages, and also family, though I'm only especially close to a handful of relatives so the ones I'm close to should count), and countless acquaintances. Acquaintances are those I know at least a little and get along with them, and often make polite chitchat with them, sometimes even exchanging favors, but most of the time we don't go out of our way for each other (or get presents for, etc).

Part 2:

Apples & oranges to compare, because my close friends are weird enough that generally they wouldn't feel a need to preserve my feelings if they were going elsewhere or otherwise lie to me. If to tell me the truth was to stick my foot in my mouth as a result, at least some would probably do it with glee (more mischievous than malicious).

Now if one did?

I'd be more curious than offended. Where did she go? What happened? I'd probably ask why she kept it from me, mainly out of curiosity. If she honestly told me, "I didn't want you to scare them off," I'd probably tease her mercilessly whenever I got the chance over it ("So those people are coming over? Let me decorate the doorstep with bones to use as a conversation starter. Yeah, I said conversation starter. I can say that they're the bones of Jehovah's Witnesses who dared to wake me too early in the morning. What, you don't think I'll scare them off do you?")

The co-worker you mentioned sounded like an acquaintance, not a friend, so he shouldn't even count. (If you knew him better, you'd already knew he worked there a long while.) I wouldn't care in the slightest about that, because we weren't that close anyway.

Basically, to be a close friend of mine, I do see mutual trust being very important. However, secrets are allowed, and they're not answerable to me, nor do they owe me all their time. Only in my BFFs would I expect full disclosures (within reason), and even then it's just because we share about everything without need of fearing condemnation over it, not because they OWE it. It's something we share because we're comfortable with each other, not because we swore some oath of perfect love, perfect trust, and/or perfect honesty. And if I did catch one lying to me in the way you described, I'd be more curious and explain they didn't have to hide such things (I'd guess because she or he felt it would hurt my feelings or some such).

'Course if someone habitually lies to me, they never become close friends of mine to begin with. Or any of the other things that I wouldn't tolerate in a close friend (head games, backstabbing, revealing my secrets, stealing, etc).

I don't know. It just seems like too much of an apples & oranges thing, both in how we measure friendship and also in the friends we have and even just how we get along while also respecting each other's space (both psychic and physical).

posted July 25, 2009 09:09 PM         

as for the friend who lied, yeah it was a close friend. and it was a closer friend who chose to keep me in the dark and not keep my best interests in mind when she was just like whatever about it. it's like wow, 10 years and i get no credit? thanks.

i think what frightens me is that one friend betrayed me and so did another one. i expected more out of both of them. it's like i've never experienced this before. i went my entire life until now and to have it done to my actual face...like i actually followed up with her and she was all like blah blah blah...telling her fake story...it just seemed so real and i believed it. it makes me wonder now okay what else has she lied about? how can i know when she lies? it was such a minor and whatever thing. what happens when it's something more serious? can i even trust both of these friends anymore? i guess now i see that my moral standards are different from theirs and i should just keep my distance from them. i guess, i considered them two to be great friends and now it's like that can't ever be.

it also makes me curious as to why she lied to my face, yet chose to tell another friend the actual truth. it makes me think what i'm not good enough of a friend to her that she can't keep it real with me? well that sucks to be me. i consider this to be a heinous infraction and i won't deal with liars. i come from a small town. you can't get away with anything where i come from. but this is a big city. and i get why people hate this city and accuse people of being fake and two-faced. it's because you can get away with it here.

posted July 26, 2009 01:38 AM         

If it happened to me, I'd be baffled, but I'd assume that it had probably been an unplanned divergence. I can't think of any reason why someone especially close would lie to me, or feel they'd have to. Though I realize that once in a blue moon, everyone does something stupid, sometimes even for reasons the person being stupid doesn't understand (maybe the planets?).

posted July 26, 2009 10:48 AM         

and maybe that's it too, maybe they don't want me to be close to them. this incident has made me very insecure about where i stand in these people's lives. i thought we were cool but maybe it's just me who thinks that way.

posted July 26, 2009 08:22 PM         

And I've learned to question everything I'm ever told, including the news (especially if it's at all political in nature), as I've seen them knowingly & willfully lie.

It doesn't matter if it's school rumors, word on the street, or small town gossip, I learned that it requires major evaluation because so much of it is BS. Which is to say, if I held such high standards on honesty, I don't see myself being social with ANYONE anywhere.

Heck, I EXPECT lies from just about everyone, though some are done for a good cause (preserve the peace, avoid hurt feelings, etc), and some are told to one's self as much as everyone else (ie, believes one's own lies). Small towns are no different, I could go on and on about the outrageous lying that goes on there in multiple states just from personal experience alone.

I can see your point to a point (the old, "first time shame on you, 2nd time shame on me"), but personally I measure people by their habits rather than their occasional mistakes. If someone has managed to become a close friend to me, then that means they've been screened pretty thoroughly in my book, so they get the benefit of a doubt (while mere acquaintances aren't held up to high standards, so are easily shrugged off when they mess up, and lies can easily be excused by me as avoiding hurting my feelings or some such, at least more graceful than saying, "None of your business"). I don't expect others to be perfect, anymore than I expect myself to be. Humans are weak, pathetic creatures, and frankly I want to transfer to another species.

Your 2 examples do seem kinda minor to me, though I see your point, at least with the 2nd one. The main thing for the 2nd one is WHY? That's what I'd be wondering about. I can't imagine anyone close to me doing that, but if it did I'd be more baffled than hurt. As for the first example, he could've even been trying to avoid an "awkweird" moment, which was nice of him in my book, as well as lying due to insecurity (which is at least understandable), and if you'd been that close, you'd know he'd been working there for more than a year anyway (unless it was someone you knew strictly on the internet).

posted July 26, 2009 09:15 PM         

i've decided to just let this go and erase it from my mind and continue on as is. like just continue on being friends, but i'll just know that hey we're not as good friends as i thought we were and just leave it at that.

as for the friend who's mad at me and has now cut me off, same rude awakening there too. she's not that great of a friend to me either if she pulls the plug on me for being honest and expressing my feelings to her. it's like wow...all these years of trying and putting in effort, it just means nothing. it's fine if she does it to me but it's never fine when i do it to her.

with this lie i've discovered how strong real friendships are and i just realized these ones are not as strong as i saw them to be. it was on my end, but on theirs, not so much.