posted January 06, 2010 02:50 PM         

A friend of a friend of mine works for a credit card collection agency, and says he was trained to lie and cheat people, and is now earning good money doing just that. He is conflicted about it, as many people in professions like that are, but its what he was "educated" to do, and it pays more than working at Starbuck's. This got me thinking, again, about how many people make good money, and appear to be responsible members of society, but are, in fact, exploiting and preying upon others every single day. I wonder if most people worry, or wonder, about the decency of the work they do, and how it fits into the bigger picture. There are so many people doing jobs that are downright insidious, but I wonder how many of them know it, and wrestle with it. They can't all be bad people. Just weak, confused, misled...

It's something to think about. How many people acquire the appearance of responsibility by playing the role of predator? And how many occupations provide people with a cover of normalcy, even success, because they're both legal and lucrative, while actually perpetrating heinous acts upon society and its members? Normalcy -- or the appearance of normalcy -- at what cost? Is it better to receive charity (and all the stigma that goes with it), or to be working hard, and making a "respectable living", at fooling and ripping people off? And what percentage of occupations, do you suppose, are completely based on fooling and ripping people off? I'd bet it's a good chunk, if not most.

posted January 06, 2010 04:01 PM         

I don't think I still anyone.

I was trained to be salesman. I did the training for two years and was selling furniture. I didn't want to pursue, it wasn't my branch, I kind of felt like stealing people from their money although I had a good contact with clients. but I wasn't stable and wanted other things from life.

I think it comes down to ones objectives or perception of themselves and the world around them.

you can sell flowers because u love them or sell flowers to make money.
but if nobody was involved in selling them, how those who cultivate them would do that?

posted January 06, 2010 04:03 PM         

I completely understand this thread, Valus, and the way you broached the idea. It's a difficult line to walk in life, NEEDing to make a living in order to survive and WANTing to do the right thing while doing so.

I work as a paralegal and we deal with a lot of worker's compensation cases. Thankfully, we are on the side of the injured worker, I absolutley could not work for the insurance companies that screw these people over and over, leaving them broken in spirit, body and mind. I would not be able to look at myself in the mirror. But I wonder if the people who DO work for the insurance companies look at my job and think "I could never work for the lying, lazy, pill popping injured workers" because they think they are all making up their problems. It's disgusting, really, what these people go through. I have cried many times because of the treatment of some of our clients. A few of them have attempted to take their lives because of what they go through, they suffer deep depression and anxiety due to feeling incompetent because they can't work and are being followed by private investigators all the time. My heart breaks for these people. I am guilty of judging some people that we have declined, and I know there are people out there that are trying to "get something for nothing" and just want money to stay home. Another problem with this is that doctors will prescribe medications for pain which the clients will then get hooked on, and of course that decreases their desire to get better and return to work, thus making the insurance companies cut them off completely, leaving detoxing, hurt, sad people to fend for themselves. This is what I deal with every day. I am sickened by the people that are out to take advantage, yet feel for them that it's not their fault they got hurt and addicted to pain killers or lost a lot of ambition. I am sickened by the adjusters that don't return phone calls so deadlines will go by and people will have to wait weeks to get their benefits checks or surgeries approved, but will pay thousands of dollars to private investigators to follow them around. I am sickened by the attorneys that twist every little thing to make our clients look like drug addicts and liars.

Then my mind literally wants to explode because they are all people with the right to do what they want and live their lives and who am I to say what they should and shouldn't be doing with their freedoms?

A vicious circle, a double edged sword.

posted January 06, 2010 04:07 PM         

black

and

white

and then a whole bunch of shades of grey in-between

Took me a good while to appreciate that, but so glad I did, it makes me much tolerant of others perspectives.

posted January 06, 2010 04:36 PM         

quote:

---

And what percentage of occupations, do you suppose, are completely based on fooling and ripping people off? I'd bet it's a good chunk, if not most.

---

There are certainly a lot, but I wouldn't jump to most.

posted January 06, 2010 04:46 PM         

if you help the needy for a living and when autited to maintain funding have to back date inspections, is that cheating? who are you cheating? certainly not the ones you help..

its all relative valus.

remember when Jesus ate corn on the Sabboth? Against the rules of the day, and yet, he had no sin. he broke the law and had no sin. explain that Valus.

sometimes you have to just accept yourself and accept others and realize there is a much bigger picture than the one we see. no?

Sometimes you just need to give things a rest dude.

posted January 06, 2010 04:50 PM         

all fall short of perfect. who am i to judge? who are you to judge? our hands are not clean either...not mine...not yours... due to the fact that the last living man with no sin lived over 2000 years ago.

posted January 06, 2010 05:42 PM         

What do you tell the parent? They want to hear their child is happy. Yes, they are happy, but the system could do more for the child.

Many times, I've had to tell parents that their child is doing a fabulous job, but omitting the fact that there are staff members who are letting the team down.

posted January 06, 2010 05:51 PM         

Jobs, in my case. No, they don't.

posted January 06, 2010 05:54 PM         

Shades of grey, and we battle with what the exact shade should be every day.

posted January 06, 2010 06:19 PM         

One thing that works well in a school is passion. You need enough to drive you through the demands and expections. There's a proverb that says "where there is no vision, the people perish"

I know what you're saying about your friend loving the kids. It's great that people love kids, but love alone doesn't give them the skills they need - like how to wipe their bottom and brush their teeth. My role is a challenging one.

posted January 06, 2010 06:25 PM         

This person (a friend of a friend) works for a bank that pushes credit cards, or something like that, and not for a collection agency. I don't know how much of a difference that makes, if any, but it's at least accurate to this instance.

Okay, carry on.

Keep thinking!

posted January 06, 2010 06:38 PM         

Nothing seems fixed, and running in circles and hoping your making prgress seems to be the nature of the job.

posted January 06, 2010 07:56 PM         

In the USA, it's actually easier to sue a corporation for being ethical instead of raping the planet. See if a corporation is careful in order to preserve the environment's integrity, and still makes a profit while doing so, they can STILL be sued for "robbing the shareholders" because they COULD have made even more of a profit by not caring of their impact (their best legal defense would be to demonstrate how doing so would actually make a much bigger profit).

MAD magazine from time to time has a series that's pretty much about how those who "play by the rules" and show fairness & decency are the ones most likely to be burned (based on actual events), including by so-called "ethics committees."

And image is everything, thus the need for spin doctors (which is essentially marketing, even if you're doing it for political actions as opposed to trying to sell something for money).

quote:

---

Jane: What happened to all your paper-writing money?
Daria: My mom wouldn’t let me keep it. She said it was wrong to encourage cheaters and to profit from them.
Jane: So, she’s giving up being a lawyer?
Daria: I asked her that. And I’m sure some day we’ll once again be on speaking terms.
*
--from the Daria ep "College Bored"

---

posted January 06, 2010 07:58 PM         

i can think of a few people in GU who would find it hard to wander from the view in your quote, ghani!

i also remember talking to a friend about what a rip off his fledgling business was when you analyzed it closely...to which he said

"in a way ALL business is a swizz. it depends how you look at it. sure, i charge people three times what it would cost them to do it themselves...but i save them the hours it would cost them, so its a trade off. how much those hours are worth varies for everyone but for most its well worth it to stay at work earning, or go out having fun while the stress and effort is completely removed from them..."

and i had to admit he was right! of course some businesses and jobs are more prone to dishonesty than others, and some are ALL about lying and persuasion...advertising comes first to my mind. and the whole credit industry as it has evolved is a house of cards. but even they serve a function...

if people swallow being lied to and cheated it is often because THEY are swayed by appearances and want to believe that their money is going somewhere that will satisfy them. so who exactly is to blame for this state of affairs?