posted January 12, 2010 11:24 AM         

There are people that believe that they can tell if people are honest or not by body language,eye movements,and voice patterns.

They think that people are dishonest if they have problems recalling details,mixing them up.

I have to give a rebuttal to that and explain in detail.

This is also to raise awareness as a neurodiversity advocate, being a neurodivergent myself.

There are people that have problems with eye contact,body language,and voice patterns due to sensory integration/coordination and overall neurological differences. That's how I and many other neurodivergents are.

There are people that have problems communicating because they are are naturally nervous,anxious types. There are people with social anxiety disorders or avoidant personality disorders (people that have fear of negative evaluation). That has nothing to do with being truthful or not. I am a person with history of social anxiety issues too including a diagnosis of avoidant personality disorder, but that's connected to with the first mentioned stuff. Many people with neurodivergent conditions have history of anxiety issues. That is well documented. That's why mental health screening is done when doing examinations to find out if somebody has learning disability and/or ADHD.

There are many people that are nervous,anxious that would have a hard time passing lie detector tests. Many people will speak softly,speak with higher pitch,speak faster,speak slower when they are are anxious,nervous for no reason at all or because they are inconsistent in their speech patterns due to their atypical nervous system functions. That's how I am. My mother told me that my biological father was just like me. She even told me that he stuttered badly when around people that he didn't know,and so she would speak for him. I tend to stutter a little myself and tremble. I used to shake very badly when I was a kid to the point that I felt like a freak when I was a teenager because my peers would point that out to me. I always hated public speaking because I wouldn't talk right and would shake a lot. There are a lot of people just like me.

Many neurodivergents like myself have problems with auditory processing. Many of us can be confused when people are speaking to us. Many of us have problems remembering what's being spoken to us due to problems with verbal memory and sequential memory. A lot of us having auditory input speech lags (need time for things to register when people are saying stuff to us). We can take in too much information to ears for our brain to process (auditory overload). Those things can lead to many neurodivergents to have problems responding to people's questions. Many neurodivergents have problems with demand language versus spontanous language. Many of us have hypersensitive hearing. Those issues can easily lead many neurodivergents to have problems with a lie detector test as well as with communications in general. I have all these issues myself. I used to have auditory reversals (turned words around when I heard them),and that was corrected with auditory therapy.

neurodivergent people with speech and auditory issues can be easily misread and not pass a lie detector test. The same with people that are nervous,anxious,and have social anxiety issues which can occur in many people that aren't neurodivergent.

As neurodivergents, our behaviors can be misunderstood by neurotypicals and even by ourselves. Therefore, it's very important to understand the neurodivergent processing in social interactions. We can't be judged based on what people learn from psychology books and the common views based on neurotypical behavior.

One example is eye contact and handshaking.

page 41 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE - DYSLEXIA

Occasionally , dyslexics were considered to be negativistic on the basis of their hesitant, ambivalent, and anxiety-laden avoidance of handshaking and/or eye contact. Only in retrospect were these "anti-social" avoidance symptoms recognized to be due to primary somatic, rather than primary psychogenic, disturbances. Thus, upon neurodynamic exploration, hand contact was avoided because of right/left uncertaintly and the anticipated embarassment of using the wrong hand. In a similar fashion, upon analysis, eye contact was avoided in order to minimize (1) ocular perseveration, (2) directionally confused and dysmetric ocular scanning mechanisms, and (3) the catastrophic discomfort triggered when "forced" to fixate moving facial features during communication.

For some dyslexics, simultaneous listening and looking were more than they could "take" physiologically, and as a result they tended to sacrifice direction-dependent looking or eye contact in order to preserve the direction and sequence of auditory verbalizations and comprehension. In retrospect, it appeared as if dyslexics could not simulatenously coordinate and integrate directional and/or sequential visual,auditory,proprioceptive,and motor processing. http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album0 3&id=dr_levinson_eye_contact_shake_hands

I can relate to all those things.

I use compensated coordination mechanisms. I always visualize myself doing things before I do it, and I always visualize things while I am doing it like I am seeing myself in the mirror. It works when I shake hands with people and eye contact. However, it actually takes a lot of energy when I do that because of the things that Dr. Levinson explained. I do tend to have problems looking at people while they are talking and when I am talking. My auditory processing problems also factor because I get auditory overload. My visual processing problems also factor because I get visual overload and poor eye tracking leading to visual disorientation. I also get left/right mixed up too, but it doesn't affect my handshaking as I automatically know which hand to use because i visualize it first and it becomes automatic after you keep doing it.

I think that I mistake my coordination difficulties with eye contact for shyness which is based on actual fear and anxiety. The sensory integration issues could be mistaken for shyness too. It's important to distinguish neurological issues from psychological issues.

I want to make a point that just because people have problems with handshaking and eye contact doesn't mean that they are rude,inconsiderate. If person has problems with eye contact when communicating, it doesn't mean that they are being dishonest. It might not even be shyness like I pointed out.

I know what it's like to be told "Look at me when I am talking to you." and getting chewed out for having poor eye contact by my stepfather and my superiors when I was in the navy.

my mother told me that my father was the same way with eye contact just like me, and she also has problems with eye contact too. Both parents are neurodivergents too. I inherited my neurodivergence from both my parents.

Be aware that psychiatrists can misunderstand poor eye contact as a flat affect symptom of psychosis. Poor eye contact is a known symptom of psychosis. tt is also a known symptom of autistic spectrum conditions.

Poor eye contact in schizophrenia http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkwsSQ8RJ490A3P5 XNyoA?p=poor+eye+contact++in+schizophrenia&y=Search&fr=fptb-sunm

Poor eye contact in autism http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oGkkg.Q8RJbDI B.BlXNyoA?p=poor+eye+contact++in+autistic+spectrum&y=Search&fr=fptb-sunm

That's why I strongly stress that neurodivergent conditions be understood to prevent them from being misdiagnosed as psychotic disorders.

Dr. Harold N. Levinson believe that neurodivergent conditions have highly significant overlapping symptoms and tend to be comorbid with each other. That's why Dr Levinson refers to the whole neurodivergence as Dyslexic Syndrome, and Ronald D. Davis believes that root of neurodivergent conditions is Dyslexia which he views as a perceptual talent. That's why his first book was called GIFT OF DYSLEXIA.
They both believe that the neurodivergent conditions and disorientation/confusion are strongly connected. The only difference is that Dr. Levinson believes that it stems from cerebellar vestibular dysfunction,and should be treated with antimotion sickness medication. Ronald D. Davis believes that it stems from being a highly visual,picture thinker, and that it can be resolved with mind's eye focus therapy.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 11:29 AM         

the following is page 47 from A Solution to the Riddle Dyslexia by Harold N. Levinson, M.D.

Although primary receptive aphasic speech disturbances were distinctly absent in this dyslexic sample, an occasional dyslexic reported experiencing an unusually long delay between hearing and comprehending a language sequence. As a result, they often found themselves either requesting speakers to repeat themselves as if they had not heard what was said, or forgetting what was said and repeating it later on as if was their own thought. This interesting difficulty was expressed by a patient as follows: "I find myself sayin, "What?' and by the time I've asked the question, I know what was said....And at other times, I'll say something only to find out I've just repeated something told to me." This temporal receptive speech impairment appeared to mirror the temporal expressive speech delays noted in slurring,stammering,and stuttering, and seemed also consistent with the temporal-spatial sequencing disturbances generally chacterizing the speech dysfunctions in Dyslexia.

The aforementioned stuff is how I am and many other neurodivergents are. My mother told me that my father was the same way with both auditory and speech. Neurotypicals tend easily misjudge our auditory processing problems for numerous things. Neurodivergents with these problems could have problems with lie detecting tests. Some psychiatrists will even see the auditory processing problems as a form of psychotic-related disorientation.

Auditory imperception or scrambing for specific and sequential phonetic sounds was not infrequently observed. This disturbance appeared to parallel the visual scrambling and blurring phenomena previously described, and often provoked both speech and spelling errors.

I had those issues too,and it was corrected with auditory therapy before I had speech therapy in special education class.
http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=A_Solution_to_the_Riddle_of_Dyslexia_gif

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 11:32 AM         

page 47 to 49 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE OF DYSLEXIA(The DISCOVERY OF
CEREBELLAR-VESTIBULAR SYNDROMES by Harold N. Levinson, MD

Occasionally, dyslexics manifested a "loose" and telescopic quality to
their associative speech or thinking styles, and as a result tended to
be rapid,wordy, and rambling in their spontaneous descriptions. This
interesting speech pattern appeared independent of anxiety factors,
and tended to resemble a schizophrenic's "loose associations" and
tangential thinking. However, these dyslexic children were not
psychotic, and lacked autistic preoccupation and projective thinking
mechanisms. They merely seemed to forget momentarily the direction of
their thought sequences and/or the thoughts and words themselves.
Occasionally, the temporal spacing between words and sentences was
shorter than normal and even dysmetric.

Later studes noted nonpsychotic "absentminded" adult dyslexics to
manifest similar loose,wordy, and rambling speech patterns ----
clearly demonstrating the need to qualitatively and diagnostically
distinguish dyslexic speech patterns from schizophrenic patterns
(Kasaninin, 1964). Upon analysis, this loose, absent-minded dyslexic
thinking style prone to slips was found to be due to the very same
underlying memory, directional, and temporal spatial dyscoordination
mechanisms characterizing dyslexic reading, writing, and spelling.

Not infrequently these so-called absent-minded individuals intend to
do say or do one thing and wind up saying or doing another, even the
opposite of what was originally intended. Forgetting is commonplace. As
a result, the dyslexic's speech and action patterns may often exhibit
a disoriented and disjointed, even comical, quality, which many
clinicians fallaciously consider due to primary psychogenic
determinants. However, upon analysis, the dyscoordination or slip
between intention and speech or motor response was most often found
lacking a primary emotional causation, and appeared qualitatively
consistent with the dyslexic symptomatology. In retrospect, these
slips invariably provoked secondary emotional attempts at
compensation; and the unsuspecting psychiatrist and psychologist will
unwittingly mistake secondary defensive reaction with primary
causation. For example, some dyslexics become embarassed, blush, and
retreat socially as a result of their slips, while others attempt to
joke and rationalize them away.

Paradoxically, some dyslexics were found to demonstrate highly
organized, crystal-clear thinking and expressive styles. Upon
analysis, many of these individuals were found to have had subtle and
compensated speech impediments during their early childhood. In
retrospect, their highly condensed speech patterns appeared to be
defensive or adaptive attempts at minimizing speech output and
thinking errors. Although these dyslexics were often incapable of
spontaneous free-associative and reflective speech, they were more
than capable of performing these same very same functions in silence.
For example, when asked to freely think aloud about a question, they
could not or would not. But they could, and would,invariably produce
the answer after a silent pause----clearly demonstrating their highly
developed, silent associative and reflective thinking capacities.
Following recognition and resolution of their guarded or defensive
speech mechanisms, many learned to think aloud and to express
themselves without embarassed or fear of criticism. Later adult
stories not only confirmed these observations but revealed the
existence of dyslexics who were capable of free association and
reflection only when writing. Their fluent and lucid writing styles
appeared to be motivated similarly by dyslexic verbalization
difficulties which were compensated for by gifted and/or unhampered
writing functions.

Because the ability to free-associate is a cardinal and essential
prerequisite for candidates being evaluated for psychoanalytic
therapy, and since this ability may be nonverbally present, it
behooves psychiatrists and psychoanalysts to explore seriously these
clinical considerations in their diagnostic-treatment assessment of
psychoanalytic patients.

The first part are my problems. That's why I was misdiagnosed as
having schizoaffective bipolar by psychiatrists years ago in
adulthood,and they never did any medical testing. They only went by
what they observed.

Luckily, Dr Levinson understood that my speech and thoughts weren't
psychotic but Dyslexic. I saw Dr Levinson in June of 2005. He is
the psychiatrist/neurologist who diagnosed m e as having cerebellar
vestibular dysfuncion and recognized my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,sensory
integration diffiiculties. He didn't diagnose me with any mental
illness. He thought my problems were neurological.

The second part is me too....mainly compensatory thinking,speech
mechanisms.
http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=A_Solution_to_the_Riddle_of_Dyslexia_gif
http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=A_Solution_to_the_Riddle_of_Dyslexia_001_gif

please note that stuff could make a neurodivergent misunderstood and can make it hard for a lie detector test to work on them. The speech patterns can easily be misread:

Not infrequently these so-called absent-minded individuals intend to do say or do one thing and wind up saying or doing another, even the opposite of what was originally intended. Forgetting is commonplace. As a result, the dyslexic's speech and action patterns may often exhibit
a disoriented and disjointed, even comical, quality, which many clinicians fallaciously consider due to primary psychogenic
determinants.

I just felt the need to be an advocate,help raise awareness about neurodivergent conditions and how they can and usually are misunderstood by neurotypicals which can lead to false assumptions,accusations as well as psychiatric misdiagnoses.
My life purpose is help get rid of those perceptions that neurotypicals have about us neurodivergents.

those psychology textbooks and other books that people write about psychological interactions,body language,social behavior is based on the biases,perceptions of neurotypical majority.

There need to be psychological text books and other books that talks about these things from both the neurotypical and neurodivergent perspective. That means showing differences and similarities when it comes to neurotypicals and neurodivergents in how they process things. This what lead to less misunderstanding of neurodivergent behavior and communications.

also....people with autistic spectrum conditions have great difficulty with reading emotional/social cues that include voice patterns,body language,facial expressions. That's the hallmark of autistic spectrum conditions.

Autistic Spectrum conditions (especially Aspergers) tend to have comorbidity with other neurodivergent conditions like Dyspraxia,Dyslexia,ADHD.

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 11:34 AM         

Dr. Michael Ryan is a psychologist with a
private practice in Grand Rapids, MI. He
specializes in working with people with learning disabilities. A dyslexic himself, Dr. Ryan is a past president of the Michigan Branch of the International Dyslexia Association (IDA) and a former national vice president of IDA..

The dyslexic frequently has problems with social relationships. These can be traced to causes:
▪ Dyslexic children may be physically and
socially immature in comparison to their peers.
This can lead to a poor self-image and less peer acceptance.
▪ Dyslexics’ social immaturity may make them
awkward in social situations.
▪ Many dyslexics have difficulty reading social cues. They may be oblivious to the amount of personal distance necessary in social interactions or insensitive to other people’s body language.
▪ Dyslexia often affects oral language
functioning. Affected persons may have trouble finding the right words, may stammer, or may pause before answering direct questions. This puts them at a disadvantage as they enter adolescence, when language becomes more central to their relationships with peers.

My clinical observations lead me to believe that,just as dyslexics have difficulty remembering the sequence of letter or words, they may also have difficulty remembering the order of events. For example, let us look at a normal playground interaction between two children. A dyslexic child takes a toy that belongs to another child,who calls the dyslexic a name. The dyslexic then hits the other child. In relating the experience, the dyslexic child may reverse the sequence of events. He may remember that the other child called him a name, and he then took the toy and hit the other child.

This presents two major difficulties for the
dyslexic child. First, it takes him longer to learn from his mistakes. Second, if an adult witnessed the events, and asks the dyslexic child happened, the child seems to be lying.

Unfortunately, most interactions between
children involve not three events, but 15 to 20. With his sequencing and memory problems, the dyslexic may relate a different sequence of events each time he tells the tale. Teachers,parents, and psychologists conclude that he is either psychotic or a pathological liar.
http://www.interdys.org/ewebeditpro5/upload/Social_and_Emotion_Problems_Related_to_Dyslexia.pdf

any ways...I posted the above stuff to make a point that neurodivergents are hard to pin down when it comes to communications and social interactions and that you can't always tell a person is being dishonest by speech patterns,body language as well as having problems with details,sequence when it comes to recalling things.

I know this personally,and so do many other neurodivergents.

Neurotypicals need to understand that.

Neurodivergents can't be judged based on the biases,perceptions of neurotypical majority.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 05:50 PM         

quote:

---

cerebellar vestibular dysfunction

---

I haven't got time to get into this fully - but vestibular activities are great for healing - ie, rocking in a chair or hammock. Rocking a baby in a pram can get it to sleep.

Anxiety issues can be profound in autism. I enjoy working with people with autism as I understand anxiety issue due to my own past childhood emotional truama. A part of the goal is to ease anxiety. I'm anxiety challenged in the way that I have overcome many anxieties, but observe it in the people around me - which frustrates me. I wish they could be aware of their anxiety and deal with it.

posted January 12, 2010 06:15 PM         

thanks for responding to the thread and your suggests about vestibular activities.

I am very sorry about your history of emotional trauma. I admire your working with autistics.

here is my take about the cerebellar vestibular dysfunction when it comes to neurodivergent conditions.

Ronald D. Davis, talks about focusing mind's eye....He talks about it from his experience as a neurodivergent...He talks about the shifting of the mind's eye and move it to optimum viewpoint for real-world perception can help with disorientation of neurodivergents.......who knows....maybe that could help with schizophrenic's symptoms too http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=Gift_O f_Dyslexia_018_gif http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=Gift_O f_Dyslexia_019_gif http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album03&id=Gift_O f_Dyslexia_020_gif

Disorientation/confusion also are symptoms of cerebellar-vestibular dysfunction which Dr. Harold N. Levinson believes is root of neurodivergent conditions. http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=al bum03&id=Smart_But_Feeling_Dumb_Dyslexia_018_gif

Dr. Harold N. Levinson and Ronald D. Davis seemed to agree on some things about neurodivergent conditions. They both believe that neurodivergent conditions have highly significant overlapping symptoms and tend to be co-morbid with each other. That's why Dr Levinson refers to the whole neurodivergence as Dyslexic Syndrome, and Ronald D. Davis believes that the root of neurodivergent conditions is Dyslexia which he views as a perceptual talent. That's why his first book was called GIFT OF DYSLEXIA.

They both believe that the neurodivergent conditions and disorientation/confusion are strongly connected. The only difference is that Dr. Levinson believes that it stems from cerebellar vestibular dysfunction,and should be treated with anti-motion sickness medication. Ronald D. Davis believes that it stems from being a highly visual,picture thinker, and that it can be resolved with mind's eye focus therapy.

I believe that cerebellar-vestibular dysfunction can be in synchronicity with neurodivergent conditions and not just cause and effect. It could be one of those " what came first....the chicken or the egg" I believe that it's possible that the neurodivergent person can be ultrasensitive to sensory input to the point that the cerebellar vestibular system is overwhelmed which results in disorientation/confusion. Therefore, cerebellar vestibular problems could actually be the symptoms of hypersensitivity. I am just coming at it from a neurodivergent perspective.

Things like Omega 3 fatty acids are not only found to decrease the symptoms of neurodivergence but also hypersensitivity too. Neurodivergents tend to be hypersensitive any way. Certain vitamins and minerals help with cerebellar vestibular functioning too,and they also can decrease hypersensitivity...especially Vitamin B complex which is known as the stress vitamin. Motion sickness medications are used to treat cerebellar vestibular dysfunction. They could actually decrease hypersensitivity. Motion sickness could stem from hypersensitivity to movements.

In psychology text books, I have read that schizophrenics can be hypersensitive and so they can retreat inside themselves for protection. However, this also be said for people with autism.

Studies show that Omega 3 fatty acids can help with schizophrenia,bipolar too. Hypersensitivity is very common in people with those psychiatric disorders. Also Vitamin B6 and zinc deficiencies can lead to schizophrenia and bipolar issues. Pyroluria is a condition that pulls Vitamin B6 and zinc out of the system which can lead to schizophrenic,bipolar symptoms.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 12, 2010 10:53 PM         

First, reading that kinda reminded me of reading Lovecraft: uses a lot of unnecessary big words that (for me) detract from the message ("story" in the case of Lovecraft, though I acquired a taste for his writing after awhile), but kinda fun anyway.

Second, lie detectors are a sham and easily fooled. I don't know much about voice analyzers, but what little I have heard of them doesn't sound promising and I know other avenues for telling lies were being explored (including using a brain scan).

Other detectors are also over hyped. For example, a computer program was said to be able to tell if a person was male or female based on how they expressed themselves online. So I tested it using various authors, and it got it wrong more than half the times I tried it. One of the authors gotten wrong was Janet Fitch from her book White Oleander, a chick lit that made Oprah's Book of the Month, IIRC. I noticed that it seemed to be basing its judgment by how emotional the writing was, so if a passage had a lot of exclamation marks, for example, or words describing feelings, that was labeled female, while all others were listed as male. Yet it had the audacity to claim to be scientific and accurate, and many, easily bamboozled by anyone claiming to be an expert, fell for it.

Heh, I think I just demonstrated neurodivergent thinking twice above. This is what inspires my saying this:

quote:

---

Occasionally, dyslexics manifested a "loose" and telescopic quality to
their associative speech or thinking styles, and as a result tended to
be rapid,wordy, and rambling in their spontaneous descriptions. This
interesting speech pattern appeared independent of anxiety factors,
and tended to resemble a schizophrenic's "loose associations" and
tangential thinking. However, these dyslexic children were not
psychotic, and lacked autistic preoccupation and projective thinking
mechanisms. They merely seemed to forget momentarily the direction of
their thought sequences and/or the thoughts and words themselves.
Occasionally, the temporal spacing between words and sentences was
shorter than normal and even dysmetric.

---

I personally prefer to think of this as a more holistic understanding/approach. Seriously, to fully understand something you have to see how it relates to the whole, not just examine it as an isolated component.

And I also think many people talk/think this way. As a quick example, look around on this forum and see how easily threads go off topic.

posted January 12, 2010 10:57 PM         

Is Asperger's an example of neurodivergent thinking? Because I read the symptoms recently and was amazed at how well it fit so many people I knew. In fact, I kinda lean to thinking that's just guys in general.

Also, what exactly is "neurotypical"?

That is to ask, how is it different from people of different reality tunnels affecting how they misunderstand each other?

In language alone there's plenty of room for misunderstanding. As an example, try talking to someone into Ayn Rand about "altruism" and see how fast the talk breaks down. Use "liberal" outside the USA and see how it can confuse people (since liberals are often right wing, sometimes far right wing, in other countries). Or ask different people to define "freedom"--and if it means as long as you follow the laws of the government you can do what you want then also ask if that means [insert country disliked by other person, like say China] is "free." Or try to get a Pentecostal and a Wiccan to discuss "binding." Tell a skater kid you think something is "sick" in a neutral tone of voice and see how s/he responds. Someone who reads a lot of fantasy may refer to someone good at taking care of life's essentials as "good at the mundane" but the person so complimented will translate the words as "good at being ordinary/boring" (and goths will bristle even harder).

It's not just with words; people of different backgrounds can interpret actions they see in radically different ways. Yet such people generally aren't seen as "neurodivergent" or anything, they just have a different "reality tunnel" and/or background experience to work with.

posted January 13, 2010 02:45 AM         

quote:

---

Is Asperger's an example of neurodivergent thinking? Because I read the symptoms recently and was amazed at how well it fit so many people I knew. In fact, I kinda lean to thinking that's just guys in general.

---

Aspergers can be described as neurodivergent thinking. Many people who work with others on the Autistic Spectrum always invariably start discussing how we are all probably autistic in some way. In other words, I believe many people have characteristics of ASD at the higher end of the spectrum, or in other words, Aspergers.

When you think about how anxious, frustrated, upset or angry if someone's shopping trolley dings your car, or an unexpected bill comes in, or even if your friends want to go out the same night as the Grand Final. These anamolies increase discomfort in your life. A person with Autism or Aspergers, can get upset if something out of routine, out of the ordinary happens, that threatens a sense of security.

However, with a person who struggles with this disorder, life can be full of unexpected surprises that can be exhausting and lead to 'acting out' behaviour. It's a way of saying "Stop the world. I want to get off".

Cerebral processing is challenged, and because the brain is such a complex organ, no-one can say exactly what is causing the austism. I believe it's almost a type of brain damage (and please forgive me for saying that, but this is from working with many people with severe autism).

And of course, it is a Spectrum Disorder. So it can be measured, as an example, from a small limp through to not being able to walk at all.

posted January 13, 2010 02:55 AM         

quote:

---

There are people that have problems with eye contact,body language,and voice patterns due to sensory integration/coordination and overall neurological differences. That's how I and many other neurodivergents are.

---

Social processing is difficult for someone for Aspergers. But when you think about it, we are all meant to read everyone's minds!!! We are all meant to be courteous to everyone!!! We are meant to smile and be polite to everyone!!!!

posted January 13, 2010 03:10 AM         

quote:

---

I believe it's (autism) almost a type of brain damage.

---

Gee, I'm quoting myself. Some believe that autism is genetic. It can be. When I say brain damage, I mean that the brain has physically developed differently than most people, which can be a genetic trait, eg, a hair lip, endometriosis.

Some believe austism can be environmental, eg, smoking marijuana while pregnant, exposure to toxins while pregnant.

posted January 13, 2010 03:19 AM         

yeah...Aspergers is considered part of the neurodivergence. Aspergers is common in people with other neurodivergent conditions like Dyspraxia,Dyslexia,ADHD.

It seems like there is so much overlap with Aspergers with Dyspraxia. I even read that they want to add problems with motor skills/coordination for criteria for Aspergers. Problems with understanding emotional social cues and taking things too literally is common in Dyspraxics.

I believe that low functioning autism is definitely caused by brain damage. It is well known that lead poisoning can cause autistic symptoms.

I was reading that Aspergers and high functioning Autism can be genetic.

Ronald D. Davis is both Dyslexic and Autistic.

Dr. Temple Grandin is also Autistic

I found something that she wrote:

"There is evidence that high functioning autism and Asperger's Syndrome have a strong genetic basis. G. R. DeLong and J. T. Dyer found that two thirds of families with a high functioning autistic had either a first or second degree relative with Asperger's Syndrome. Sukhelev Naragan and his co-workers wrote, in the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, that educational achievement of the parents of an autistic child with good language skills were often greater than those of similar parents with normal children. Dr. Robert Plomin at Pennsylvania State University states that autism is highly heritable. "
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/Genius_May_Be_Abnormality.htm

this article discusses how the intelligence of nonverbal autistics have been measured the wrong way with verbal based tests and that they score might higher on abstract visual skills intelligence tests

The following is from DANDA (Developmental Adult Neurodiversity Association)

DANDA – the Developmental Adult Neuro-Diversity Association has been set up for people with Dyspraxia, Asperger’s Syndrome, AD(H)D and other related conditions such as dyslexia and dyscalculia.

It became a registered charity in December2003 - No 1101323. It is run by adults with one or more of these conditions, thus following the Madrid declaration of 2001, which stated that no decisions about the disabled should be taken without their active involvement -'Nothing about us without us'.

DANDA has grown out of the Dyspraxia Foundation Adult Support Group, as it became clear that most people connected to the Group did not have dyspraxia alone. Most, in fact, had AD(H)D (Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder, Asperger’s Syndrome or dyslexia as well. It was the norm rather than the exception.

Dyspraxia will remain one of the main priorities as there are very few groups catering for the needs of adults with this condition. However, more and more people wanted to know more about the other conditions they had, especially those with Asperger’s and AD(H)D. Many dyspraxics in fact joined groups for adults with Asperger’s Syndrome, but very few are run by Asperger’s adults themselves in the UK; and there are very few established AD(H)D groups, just for adults, here, either.
http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/about-danda.php

I never heard of the terms, neurodivergent,neurodiversity,and neurotypical until after I joined Dyspraxia group on yahoo in 2003. Mary Colley is in that group,and she is also one of the founding members of DANDA. She even wrote a book on Dyspraxia. Of course,she is Dyspraxic too. She even told me that a lot of neurodivergents in UK are diagnosed as having bipolar,schizophrenia.

neurotypical is the term for people that are not neurodivergent.

Neuro-Diversity refers to the spectrum of neurological profiles describing how effective an individual is in processing information. This information comes in many forms, including written and spoken language, sounds, visual images, light, temperature, touch, texture and taste - as well as movement and co-ordination signals from the brain. The processing of all these things includes not only receiving and interpreting, but also transmitting, concentrating on and storing information. For most people, i.e., the Neuro-Typical (NT), the cognitive profile is relatively smooth, with little variation in effectiveness of information processing. This is in line with their general level of intellectual and reasoning ability. http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/neuro-diversity.php

One of the members of the yahoo Dyspraxia group,Warren Fried founded Dyspraxia USA organization. He has Dyspraxia.
http://www.dyspraxiausa.org/

Raymond

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"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted January 13, 2010 03:23 AM         

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"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"