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Author
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Topic: Friendships with Women/ Friendships with Men/ Mid-Life Crisis?
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Lyra
Knowflake Posts: 138
From: London, UK
Registered: May 2009
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posted January 17, 2010 02:12 PM
 
I'm a 35 y.o. female, and most of my friends are men. Trouble is that most of them ultimately want to go out with me, when you scratch the surface deeply enough (though I only want them as friends), and all of them, without exception, seem to be going through a mid-life crisis of sorts at present (they are in their 30s and 40s). I don't know whether this is because they are all still single or haven't achieved what they wanted to in terms of work or what. They all also seem to be developing really odd tics or personality traits as they approach their mid-30s, i.e. if they were potty before, they suddenly become even pottier (I noticed this with my ex-husband the moment he hit 35). For example, one's got an OCD (washing-hand) problem, the other's just split up with his girlfriend and is two- and three- and four-timing girls right left and centre, and another has become a (very) extreme vegan. Whether this is an example of blokes tending towards extremes I don't know.
I would try to be friends with other women but the art of friendship with other women has always eluded me from school upwards, I felt completely alien at the all-girls' school and fashion colleges I attended because I am fairly direct, and women are yes, bitchy, and don't communicate very well. I work in an all-male office where they have a fairly robust style of communication, which suits me down to the ground.
In general I have tended to find that men are better friends than women, and, if they are friends (as opposed to having a relationship) will tend to make more of an effort to keep in touch and get out and do things. But gradually I am feeling a bit of an island as the friends I have had over the last couple of years just aren't quite giving me the satisfaction they once did.
I'm also rather disillusioned with my generation's attitude to relationships. It seems that anyone who's not married is sleeping around, or just going out with people for the sake of it until they find someone better - and anyone who is married seems to be sleeping around too! Marriage is by no means the prize it's made out to be, so anyone who doesn't enter into it just seems to have casual sex, and it makes me so cross, because it's totally cynical and love just doesn't come into it anywhere.
So I'm finding myself in mental disagreement with many of my friends or associates right now. It seems I am reevaluating my life and priorities. I was speaking to my mother on the phone this afternoon - I have had several issues with her in the past but it seems she must have been at the game-playing and backstabbing again, as I probed her, and as far as I can ascertain she was lying. So I re-collected my thoughts and thought, well, I don't have to have anyone as my friend that I don't really like very much. I don't even have to make too much of an effort to be friends with women, because it will only result in my being unhappy and dissatisfied if I can't achieve it. Many "friendships" among women seem to be built on saying "oh you're so wonderful" to someone's face and trashing them the moment their back is turned, and I don't really need any of that. What do you think?IP: Logged |
vapor-lash
Knowflake Posts: 645
From:
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted January 17, 2010 09:07 PM
I've always had both male & female friends.There is a difference in style overall in these friendships - I agree.. However anyone can be an a-hole or a good friend, ultimately. I don't mind the feminine vs masculine style. Generally I'm more direct with men and more subtle with women, although not always. I have an Aries Sun and my best friend (female) has Venus/Mars in Aries. I've never felt the need to tone down around her. I don't mind anyone based on gender/sex - as long as they seem trustworthy - easy-going, funny.. My type of person overall. I've known men who talk behind people's backs and women who are confrontational, so it isn't all that set in stone. However there are some social norms that I see quite a lot of people abiding by, so I know what you're referring to. Back-stabbing seems more common in female circles. Lyra - I'm curious whether you have one of the following placements: 1.Venus in Aries, Mars in Taurus
2.Venus in Scorpio, Mars in Libra
3.Venus and Mars in a negative aspect – square or opposition
4.Venus retrograde I've noticed individuals with either of these aspects can have trouble with one gender or the other. The expectations they have from men-women tend to be drastically different to what society dictates, so they often feel disappointed. IP: Logged |
Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 429
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted January 18, 2010 03:25 PM
First, I think you're overly cynical about women, though I recognize the type you're talking about (for the record, they're called "frenemies," or "friends who are really enemies"). But since you've had that lesson learned over years and you're in your 30s, I don't expect you to lose the cynicism, so trying to make friends with women probably wouldn't work for you with such pessimism & suspicion from the start. Though I'm surprised you haven't found guys that way, too (ie, backstabbing two-face jerks)...That said, women tend to be obsessed with sex in their (*) own way, too (*I'm female, but when I describe something from the GENERAL PoV as oppose to the specific, I tend refer to women as "their" as well as men). I think what men & women TEND to value & look for in sex and/or relationships differs a lot, but it tends to work out the same in the end anyway (though both genders are in danger of not finding what they want, probably a contributing reason why both genders cheat). I mention that because even if you make friends with women, they'd be just as likely to offend you with their cheating ways (after all, it takes 2 to cheat with all those men). Granted, I find all that cheating surprising (it's common enough, but it's sounding almost universal & to be assumed where you're at). The only potentially helpful thing I can think of is to try to go to places that interest you and try to CASUALLY make friends there (talk more about the subject at hand, like a painting at an art museum, or whatever related to the place, and maybe it will go further, but don't push it). Sounds like your mom is best avoided, too. Troubleshooting: Men are likely to assume you're chatting them up for more than friendship. They may also feel rejected (and thus offended, feeling as if you put out "false signals" at best) once they find all you want is friendship. So if a new friendship leads to going on anything that could be perceived as a date, I suggest you start off right away making sure it's casual enough (lattes at noon, for example, as opposed to dinner) and saying with a shrug something along the lines of, "I'm not ready for more yet." It sounds like you wouldn't have a problem saying something like this, either. (The "yet" might also give false hope, however.) Don't go to church functions assuming the men (and women) are any more moral there than elsewhere. I'm not saying avoid them, just be aware that being more devout doesn't mean being less flawed (and plenty who are especially bad like to hide behind "respectability" of things like the church in a "wolf in sheep's clothing" manner). Most importantly, don't dump the stuff in this thread on them all at once or right away, as that's a good way to push men & women both away. IP: Logged |
koiflower
Knowflake Posts: 1568
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 19, 2010 05:53 PM
I often wonder if our western society philosophy opens up boundaries too much for people who prefer tight social boundaries to operate in.That is, in our society where there is no religious or traditional domination, our 'choices' are too great for those who 'need' tighter guidelines to living. I believe the western society is great for people are who visionary, dreamers, activists, adventurers, and pioneers. I believe that a person like your ex-husband and boyfriend, where OCD is a symptom of anxiety (unsafe feelings are lurking), and sleeping around is a symptom of inappropriate boundaries, they need boundaries put in place to direct their attention and focus toward healthier choices. This is why some people become members of dog groups, vintage car groups, knowflake groups  and other passionate ventures to pour their energy into. The topic of women......... stable, down to earth, easy-going women seem to make me feel more comfortable. It is difficult finding safe people to be around. I think there's a saying about having 5 friends in your lifetime means you're lucky! Take time out for yourself for a while, and maybe do some people watching instead. Treat yourself as your own best friend and spoil yourself rotten!! IP: Logged |
Lyra
Knowflake Posts: 138
From: London, UK
Registered: May 2009
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posted January 22, 2010 02:33 PM
Well I have Mars in Gem square Venus in Pisces, & conjunct Saturn. Venus=direct, Mars=direct, Saturn=retro (I think).
Plus I have a lot of Pisces, + Virgo Asc, and tend to need a lot of alone time anyway, lots of intuition etc. Try to channel the tendencies to worry generated by these placements into intuition at this time and making balanced choices about what is right for me (Saturn tr. through Libra?)Yes I agree the men in my life have suffered from not having any boundaries - perhaps I don't set enough boundaries myself, I don't know, so my current situation is an exercise in setting boundaries and being completely honest with others. I like to think I get on well with my dad but had a nightmare about him last night - he was approaching me with the intention of beating me up and I was so scared I became unconscious (in my dream), and the second after becoming unconscious a sort of rationale kicked in and I said to myself, that's not him really, something or someone is behind him telling him to be that way towards me. It scared me so much because this was an exact repetition of what happened in my childhood when my nother used to badmouth me to him and he came to beat me up - except in real life I never lost consciousness. I told him about it today on the phone and when I mentioned the beating up he laughed, which I found really weird. He does like to be seen as a strong man and is fairly aggressive, but I didn't like that at all. I sometimes feel - and this is not the first time I have felt this - that I am a sort of pawn being pushed around and held by other people in this little bubble just where they want me. I'm probably being irrational here and it's probably not the case at all, I feel fairly *normal* most of the time but it is definetely a transitional period for me (Saturn in 1st house, for an extended period of time, + Pluto moving into 1st house soon). IP: Logged |
shura
Knowflake Posts: 198
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted January 23, 2010 10:55 PM
interesting. was talking about this with someone today. quote:
1.Venus in Aries, Mars in Taurus
2.Venus in Scorpio, Mars in Libra
3.Venus and Mars in a negative aspect – square or opposition
4.Venus retrograde
For your anecdotal astrological pleasure ...I have Venus retrograde in Scorp and Mars in Libra. I always have 1 or 2 very close female friends, but other than that it's mostly male. I've always had male friends. Not to say that this has always worked out  but I've always had them. I've had three female bosses. One fired me and the other two forced me to transfer. Every other boss was male and, excepting one truly disgusting pig I probably should have sued, I got along very very well with all of them. Sometimes too well. I married one. IP: Logged |
T
Moderator Posts: 1954
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 23, 2010 11:41 PM
I hear you all. Relationships with men have always been easier for me too. Astrologically I'd attribute it too having a very strong Saturn and Mars emphasis.Females are often very cold to me - at first anyway (Moon square Venus?). I don't play into it (am used to it) and eventually they want to be friends. Sorry I can't give you any advice. I'd rather hang out with a bunch of guys any day. IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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