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Author Topic:   How Do You Deal With Real Horror?
Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 2151
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 17, 2010 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message
"The everyday horrors of factory farming are evoked so vividly, and the case against the people who run the system presented so convincingly, that anyone who, after reading Foer's book, continues to consume the industry's products must be without a heart, or impervious to reason, or both." (-J.M. Coetzee )

I found this review
particularly interesting:

quote:

A funny, enjoyable, and important book, February 15, 2010
By P. Chu (NC USA) - See all my reviews

Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
Disclaimer: I'm not a vegetarian (yet, but probably soon). I do enjoy meat. I'm certainly not an animal activist, and one recent post on my Facebook account (before reading the book) was "PETA= People Eating Tasty Animals".

Having said that, my opinion is that if everyone in the U.S. read this book, the world be a better place.

As Amazon customers, we search endlessly for those rare gems, the books that are funny, entertaining, engrossing, and yet life-changing at the same time. Books you can't stop thinking about. Those books only appear once in a great while.

This is one of those books. It's loaded with facts, but it's not preachy. It's not JUST that eating meat is cruel. We already know that. So why put yourself through the tedious facts yet again?

Well, that's not what this book is about. You could say that it's about a father's love for his son. Or his grandmother's odd food habits learned in the Depression and the Holocaust. About his father's culinary experiments. And yes, about his dog.

These are the characters that inhabit the book. It's a book about food. But since many of us eat meat at every meal... well, we need to confront what it means to eat animals.

Even if you choose to ignore every fact in this book, it's reasonable to ask ourselves what it means to eat meat. One argument that sticks with me is, why do we eat pigs and not dogs? Pigs are just as intelligent (if not more so) than dogs. Millions of stray dogs are euthanized every year, so why not use them as meat instead of tossing them into the trash? Why try to control the dog population instead of allowing them to breed freely and "harvesting" the strays? Cheap meat! Free range, too. Since they are already near human population centers, transporting them would also be cheaper and have less of an impact on the environment ("eat local").

By the end of this argument, I was thinking, "yeah, that makes sense, I could eat dogs". And then you go "eww"... and then when you substitute "pigs" for "dogs"... the whole book is like this. You have no choice but to engage with this book. If you're going to eat meat, fine (I had some chicken yesterday, as a matter of fact, because I'm weak), but are you going to fully consider and confront what it means to do that, or are you going to repress it and let it fester in your subconscious, ricocheting and feeding off the other repressed, uncomfortable ideas you've got locked up in there?

(By the way, did you notice the near absence of facts in that argument?)

Isn't this why we read books in the first place? To discover more about ourselves and possibly question our relationship to the world? (another disclaimer: like Mr. Foer, I also majored in philosophy)

Is it a happy, comforting book? No. But neither is Stephen King, and he sells a lot of books, right? But that's fake horror. You can laugh that off because none of it's real. Let's see how you deal with true horror and evil.

My wife and I already buy humane meat (and no, free range and cage free and all that nonsense is NOT HUMANE). We buy directly from the couple that raises the chickens, the chickens are out pecking in the yard every day, and they are slaughtered at a kosher facility. We also buy the highest humane ratings we can find at Whole Foods.

These are still only rationalizations. There's still the damage to the environment to consider. Ask yourself, are you the kind of environmentalist that sends $25 to WWF once in a while, or are you willing to put your mouth where your money is?

Do we love our meat enough to eat, well, not OUR OWN dog (our beloved Fluffy!), but ANOTHER ANONYMOUS dog if it's humanely raised and slaughtered? If the only meat you could eat were dogs, would you eat meat then? If not, what's the difference between a dog and a pig? Or a cow?

Now think about this. What if that dog was not humanely "harvested"? What if, instead of a quick painless death, you were to slam a meat hook into that dog's face and drag it into the pen until it stops struggling (as we do with large fish)? Or, what if you were to flatten it in a cage so that it couldn't stand up and cut off its paws (without painkillers) so that it couldn't scratch the other dogs, and yank out its teeth so that it couldn't bite the other dogs? Or what if, when a dog is too "damaged" to "harvest" (they are called "downers" in the industry), they left them out to die of exposure and starvation, because they don't want to spend the money on a mercy killing? Would you eat dogs then?

What if there were dogs mixed in with the cows and pigs, and we randomly shoot into the pens, killing a few dogs in the process? Or, what if we end up killing more dogs than cows? Or we merely wound the dogs, but left them out there to die on their own? Oh well, we call that "bycatch". A lamentable but necessary consequence, given our method of "harvest". Are other methods of "harvest" available? Yeah, but not as cheap. (For 1 pound of shrimp caught, 26 pounds of "bycatch" gets tossed back. If the bycatch is not dead yet, it will die soon. Is the bycatch death a painless one? No.)

Why do we put people in jail for organizing dogfighting, when every day far worse goes on within the slaughterhouses? Animals getting "processed" while they're still alive. Sadistic workers torturing animals for fun, because there's no oversight at the slaughterhouses. Even the USDA doesn't monitor what goes on when the animals are killed. We don't put these people in jail because when it's done for a corporation, that's OK.

OK, one more tidbit. Chickens are separated into "broilers" and "layers". They are genetically different, and you can't use one for the other. OK, now, if you're a "layer"... well, we know that only females lay eggs, right? What happens to the males? Before reading the book, I always thought they got slaughtered for food, but why be reasonable when you can be CRUEL. If you want to know, search [...] for "chickens", and view the first video (the title gives a small hint of the subject matter: "Chicks being ground up alive: Video").

It's difficult to imagine designing a more insanely cruel system. I won't further belabor the details. Stephen King is a master of horror, but his worst characters rate favorably to Mother Teresa compared to the food industry. What's a few murders compared to billions of painful agonizing deaths every year? Actually death is a relief when it comes, it's their life that's agony.

For the food industry spokesfolks out there, I say, let us tour some of your facilities, of our own choosing. No? 'Nuff said. Go away.

And after all this, I still eat meat? Yeah, I do. I'm a hypocrite. A big one. I am an end customer and I feed money into this system, allowing it to happen. I need to change. This book will help.

Please don't let my ranting review stop you from reading the book. Mr. Foer is a far more skilled writer than I am. Unlike my clumsy attempts in this review at arguing against the food industry, his book is not full of bullet points about why the food industry sucks.

Instead, it's about something more important, about who we say we are (as human being), the stories we tell ourselves, and how hard it is to live up to those stories. And who we want to be.

AND, the book is enjoyable, well-written, funny at times, and reads at times like an action novel, but also harrowing. Buy it, read it, and enjoy.

UPDATE: I am giving up all meat for Lent (even though I'm an atheist). We'll see how that goes.


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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1144
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Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 17, 2010 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Just got my copy from the library. Looks like a good read.

OMG!

I opened it randomly on page 78 - There is a black square drawn across two pages with the title "Hiding/Seeking" in the upper left corner.

This is what it says below the square:

quote:
In the typical cage for egg-laying hens, each bird has 67 inches of space - the size of the rectangle above. Nearly all cage-free birds have approximately the same amount of space.

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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 2151
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posted February 17, 2010 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 460
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posted February 18, 2010 05:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Perhaps coincidentally...
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35442008/ns/today-today_people/?GT1=43001

quote:
Italian state TV has suspended a cooking show host who shocked the nation by saying cat stew is a Tuscan delicacy he swears he has enjoyed many times.

quote:
Only a few moments after revealing his startling recipe, Bigazzi seemed to anticipate he would be barraged with criticism. "Now there will be letters from nature lovers. Why don't they defend rabbits?" he asked.

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 460
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posted February 18, 2010 05:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
In the typical cage for egg-laying hens, each bird has 67 inches of space - the size of the rectangle above. Nearly all cage-free birds have approximately the same amount of space

That's 5'7" (about 1.7m for those outside the US)

And on the farm I lived on that had free ranged chickens, they chose nests tighter than that to lay their eggs, at least those that could. There were more chickens than nests for them, and they'd always get filled and the other chickens would have to go elsewhere (though some got on the roosts). It's possible they did this because they felt it protected them from predators like foxes & coyotes (which it probably did as such predators would grab a closer chicken first and run off with that than bother getting one in a nest).

Interesting enough, the roosters never got into the nests. But our roosters were mean and liked to fight so they probably wanted to be where they were to fight predators.

Personally, I thought it was funny that after Zack made chickenhawk noises at the alpha rooster (which always got it strutting, acting upset, and glaring about) it finally attacked him.

Which reminds me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izZSpGkEiM8

ETA: I love these comics...I'm sharing because of the 3rd one where Calvin asks him mom to define "well adjusted"
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/calvin.html

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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 2151
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2010 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message
That's interesting, Dervish.

The hippocrisy is funny,
but also makes my head hurt.
Rabbits, indeed.

edit*[67 square inches]
sounds alright when you
compare it to a nest.

But I suppose it makes a difference if
the birds aren't free to leave the "nest";
assuming the farm is properly fenced-in
and protected from predators, of course.

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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 2151
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2010 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message
also,
have you read
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac?
http://www.google.com/search?q=johnny+the+homicidal+maniac&hl=en&sourceid =gd&rlz=1D1ACAW_enUS366US366

My friend introduced me
to the Invader Zim show --
and i loved it, so he
showed me this comic
the creator made before Zim.

"Daddy, make him die."

not as tame as Calvin
but in a similar vein,
i think.


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Valus
Knowflake

Posts: 2151
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2010 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message
http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/images/Sports.gif

"Mom and Dad don't value hard work and originality as much as they say they do."

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1144
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2010 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting. I need to look at the book again but I don't have it with me right now. He clearly stated:
quote:
- the size of the rectangle above.

I wonder if it's a typo and he meant 6.7 inches? Actually, he probably meant 67 square inches.
a quote from the Humane Society

At any rate, my grandma used to take care of chickens and they had "sleeping quarters" where they did indeed liked to be huddled together at night but then they roamed free during the day.
I've seen all kinds of cruel practices in taking care of "livestock" with my own eyes.

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Valus
Knowflake

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posted February 18, 2010 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message


http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/07/24/egg3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Industrial-Chicken-Coop.JPG

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1144
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2010 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
I can't copy the pictures from my favorite Urban Homestead family site but here is a link to a picture of their hens.

http://photos.pathtofreedom.com/Hens_g96-_p1728.html

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