posted March 09, 2010 12:34 PM         

How about this one...

You were driving along without a seatbelt (I know, I know, you always wear your seatbelt, -- but, just for the sake of argument, let's say that one time you didn't), and a boulder fell and landed on your car and paralyzed you. Let's say the doctors could easily determine that, had you been wearing a seatbelt, you would have survived virtually without a scratch. Let's also say that the boulder fell on account of some irresponsibility on the part of a certain highway worker. Lastly, let's say that you take this person to court. It would, no doubt, be insensitive of the defending attorney to suggest that you were partly responsible for becoming paralyzed, but would it be untrue? If the jury awarded you enough to buy a new car, but not enough for the medical fees, would that be entirely unjust? I mean, after all, you could have avoided injury by wearing your seatbelt -- and that is, after all, what seatbelts are provided for. "It's not just a good idea, it's the law." Personally, while I would want to award a large settlement to you, I would also have to admit the validity of the defendent's case. It's not cut-and-dry, by any means.

But how does that relate to CTD's, you ask?

I dunno. You figure it out.

posted March 09, 2010 12:46 PM         

We try our best to overcome the obvious lack of intimacy here on LL due to the fact that only a small percent of communication is verbal. We end up taking sides and defending extremities that we later question ourselves.

It's hard to stand alone. It's much easier to pick a side and go with the majority. Plus majority always rules. Unfortunate in some cases. Fortunate in others.

That's how I like to see it. Helps me sleep at night. I may be wrong.

posted March 09, 2010 01:10 PM         

That's how I like to -- or, rather,
how I cannot help but -- see it.

And, no, it doesn't help me sleep at night, lol.

But, yes, I may be wrong.

We appear human.

posted March 09, 2010 01:20 PM         

quote:

---

It's hard to stand alone. It's much easier to pick a side and go with the majority. Plus majority always rules. Unfortunate in some cases. Fortunate in others.

---

Yep. Also, when your position is somewhere
between the opposing sides, you tend to be
misunderstood and opposed by both of them.

posted March 09, 2010 01:20 PM         

"Obvious lack of intimacy" is not implying that our posts lack intimacy, only that we cannot be face-to-face intimate and therefore all kinds of nuances like facial expression, intonation, non-verbal reactions are missed. How often do we say something cheeky on here and it's completely overlooked or misinterpreted?

quote:

---

Likewise, this virtual world is no more, and no less, real than that physical world. But we are different. My online self is another self, but it is not any closer or any further away from the "real me" than my physical self is. The "real me", I suppose, does not even exist! Or, it exists only in the realm of perfect abstractions. It can never be known. The only thing that can be known is, me-online, or me-in-the-body, or me-in-the-supermarket, or me-by-the-ocean, or me-in-a-mars-transit, or me-in-a-venus-transit, or me-in-America, or me-in-Tibet, or me-in-despair, or me-in-God,... and so on. All of these may reveal another truth about who I really am, but none of them is "more me" than another.

---

posted March 09, 2010 04:54 PM         

A couple of days or so ago I got an apology via PM on another board for throwing a temper tantrum over something I said. I had literally forgotten all about it. I had to think about what that person was talking about before I remembered. And then I remembered that I saw the person got way too upset to talk rationally and so wasn't worth talking about that subject so I let it drop and talked with others on other things, and once I resolved to not touch it I just pushed it out of my mind, and within a week I'd forgotten about it.

I don't think I could stand the net if I couldn't do that. Or real life in the same way.

Ah well, here's a quote I like (for myself as well as for others):

"I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."

--Alan Greenspan

posted March 09, 2010 06:34 PM         

This is a matter of how invested you are, I think. You can care and still be detached enough not to take things personally.
I mean, I can.

I do see a point in what Valus is saying, or at least my sleep deprived interp of it ATM.
Some relationships form online and it's almost more intimate than RL, because the NON eye contact and all that helps us to really say what we mean, with less fear of rejection.

sure, words said harshly are still a form of rejection, but it's not the same as an eye roll, a bird flip, or a door slam.

posted March 09, 2010 08:55 PM         

quote:

---

"I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."
--Alan Greenspan

---

Great quote Dervish and it totally sums up my comments on this forum!
Amazing how easy it is for 'people' to jump to totally the wrong conclusions LOL

posted March 11, 2010 10:41 AM         

Say What You Mean & Mean What You Say
October 4, 2006 by Mary Jo Manzanares

One of the most important skills for a leader to possess is the ability to communicate effectively and appropriately.

We frequently think of communication skills from a public point of view: a press conference, interview, or speech, but some of the most vital communication occurs on a daily basis -- the communication between boss and employee, co-workers, family and friends.

Although the stakes are different in every situation, most conflicts and disagreements among people result from communication misunderstandings. When we aren't clear about our words and meanings, we are likely to get stares, puzzled expressions, and confused looks in return.

A good rule of thumb to remember is that it is the speaker's obligation to speak to be understood. Respected leaders always take responsibility for their message, crafting it to be understood rather than expecting listeners to decipher the meaning.

Here are three tips to help you craft better messages, so that you'll reduce the times you are misunderstood:

Say what you mean: Sounds easy, huh? Saying what you mean is more than choosing your words and stating them. Words, after all, have at least three meanings: what you mean, what the listener thinks you mean, and the dictionary definition(s). Getting those first two meanings into alignment is the ultimate success of every speaker. One way to be clearer about saying what you mean is to think about your message from your listener's perspective. Is the message crafted using words appropriate to the listener? You'd use different terms and jargon with someone skilled and experienced with a topic than with someone new to the information. It is up to the speaker to choose language that conveys the message and the meaning, rather than using language that makes the listener work to understand what's being said.

Mean what you say. In order to mean what you say, you have to be very firm and certain about what message you are trying to communicate. If your message sounds like you're waffling about on a topic, and you're not, you are unfairly misleading your listener. This is no time for passive aggressive communication, hinting about hoping someone will get what you really mean, or outright disingenuous messages (frequently referred to as lies). If you don't mean it, best keep silent.

Illustrate or demonstrate your message. Once you have said what you meant, and meant what you said, you can take one further step to enhance the understanding of your message. The simplest way to do this is with descriptive word and examples that clarify the message. Descriptive words are not necessarily big words, and they should be used to more succinctly craft your message, rather than used to show off your vocabulary. Think of the differences in a message using these terms: a drink, a cold drink, and an ice cold drink. See how the subtleties of the messages are made clearer by your choice of words. Using an example or illustration further clarifies your message, again preventing confusion and misunderstanding. Using the example from the last paragraph I could say: "I'd like something to drink, some cold water, in a large glass filled to the top with ice."

While these three steps may seem awkward and difficult now, when you start working the concepts into every day communication, you'll soon see how quickly your communications skills improve.

posted March 11, 2010 10:45 AM         

Alice: I do; at least - at least I mean what I say -- that's the same thing, you know.

Mad Hatter: Not the same thing a bit! Why, you might just as well say that, 'I see what I eat' is the same as 'I eat what I see'!

March Hare: You might just as well say, that "I like what I get" is the same thing as "I get what I like"!

posted March 11, 2010 10:51 AM         

quote:

---

That's right, communication is a skill, which means with practice comes improvement.

---

Agree completely. Mistakes and misinterpretations can be made when people don't effectively represent themselves or their ideas with words. It's worth it to take the time to state your case unless you want to deal with the backlash of people's reactions. It is also for the reader to ask questions and represent their take on the matter as well. Ego drives aside, nobody is perfect and should be willing to say "oh, sorry, no that's not what I meant" OR "oh, sorry, I thought you meant this" rather than "f*@k you if you don't get me, toss off" or "well i took it this way, no apology" That is, if you want to become clear.

posted March 11, 2010 04:31 PM         

Yeah i agree... and if someone doesn't "get" the other person then it's nice if they say "I'm not sure i understand you" or "are you implying something racist" instead of "HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT.. THAT'S THE MOST RACIST THING I'VE EVER HEARD"

then maybe the originator of the comment won't feel like their truthful and non racist comment has begun a witch hunt upon them which ends in them being burnt at the forum stakes...

posted March 12, 2010 02:10 PM         

i think standing alone makes it hard for the herd-ers. there is an implied threat that even being in company does not make them "right" or "safe".

but i think cyperspace and realspace are VERY different in terms of conversation. the anonymity afforded by invisibility and untouchability spurs some people to say all manner of things they would not say in person. and even invent things because, "who will ever know?"

though having a person in front of you does not guarantee their truthfulness, being visible to others threatens to expose lies and inventions and does curb them somewhat!