Posts: 436
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 30, 2010 04:51 AM         

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A client sent this email to me today... interest read.... Albert Einsteins views:

Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921...
God vs Science

'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.'
The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
'Yes sir,' the student says.
'So you believe in God?'
'Absolutely. '

'Is God good?'
'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'
'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'
'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a
moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here
and you can cure him. You can do it.

Would you help him? Would you try?'
'Yes sir, I would.'
'So you're good...!'
'I wouldn't say that...'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.
Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't..'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him.. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer
that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor
says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the
student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'
'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'
'Then where does Satan come from?'
The student falters. 'From God'
'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?

Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'
'Yes, sir.'
'Evil's everywhere, isn't it?

And God did make everything, correct?'
'Yes'
'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to
the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?'
The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'
'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you
believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'
The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you.

Have you ever seen Jesus?'
'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'
'No, sir, I have not..'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?'
'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'
'Yes'
'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'
'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats.. 'And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His
own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '
' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'
'Yes, son, there's cold too.'
'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can
have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything
called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458
degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or
transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or
transmit energy.. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the
absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'
'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it
isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'
'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can
you explain how?'
'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains.. 'You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something
we can measure.. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses
electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?'
'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do.'
'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going.. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?'

The class is in uproar.. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the
other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student
looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen
the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.. 'Is there
anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no
brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent.. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man
answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.' 'Now, you accept
that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student
continues.

'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor
responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Every day. It is in the daily
example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and
violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else
but evil..'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself.. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the
absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that
comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

PS: The student was Albert Einstein.

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Posts: 4277
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posted May 30, 2010 12:10 PM         

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gotta love our albert!

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Posts: 1679
From:
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posted May 30, 2010 02:16 PM         

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Bravo!!!!!!!

Thank you for sharing that.

I am copying and pasting and sending it to my friends!

Thank you!

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Blog

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Posts: 3722
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 30, 2010 03:16 PM         

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Yep

I read that before.

It's very fascinating stuff!

I definitely believe that Albert Einstein was both a mystic and a scientist.

I believe that it was the same for Sir Isaac Newton and Johannes Kepler.

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Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog

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From:
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posted May 30, 2010 03:28 PM         

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I actually believe, and this is my personal opinion, that science and mysticism can't be separated; that they are different languages with which to express or describe the same "entity" - as heads is to tails on a coin.

So, reading this was validating that personal opinion.

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Blog

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Posts: 456
From: Mercury
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 30, 2010 05:36 PM         

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Niiiiiice one!!! I for one believe both sides have truths. However, one camp wants domination over the other but in fact, both camps need to work together!

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Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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posted June 01, 2010 02:46 AM         

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This is a bogus email that has been circulating for years. *sigh* I get tired of fake things being forwarded on. Sorry folks, but this is absolutely not true!

Glaucus, if you read about the Einstein you will find that he was not at all a mystic. I think a big problem is that people try to apply their own beliefs to Einstein as "back up" because he is so renowned and respected as as extraordinarily intelligent person. That's why there are so many quotes attributed to Einstein that he did not actually say, and so many fictions like this email story that did not actually happen. In reality, Einstein was an agnostic who was critical of religions and religious beliefs.

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From: Planet love :)
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posted June 04, 2010 07:48 AM         

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Impressed

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"If a theory is evidently or probably untrue, or pernicious, or at all harmful, it is to be rejected and condemned"

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posted June 04, 2010 09:58 AM         

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i agree he was probably not a "mystic" or at least did not see himself that way. but like many other scientists before and after him, he believed in something that he called "god" for lack of another name. as another equally brilliant thinker said "after years of observation and experiment it is obvious that the order of the universe is not random, and that something INTELLIGENT is behind it. that something is what i call god"

so are you saying einstein didn't say "god doesn't play dice with the universe"? that would be disappointing but even so,i would be very surprised to be proven he did not believe in a universal intelligence of some description.

"He acknowledged that he believed in Spinoza's god, which is essentially that the universe itself is god. When told that others claimed that he believed in the Judeo/Christian god, he responded "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

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posted June 04, 2010 03:04 PM         

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Hiya, Kat. In my post, I wrote: "there are so many quotes attributed to Einstein that he did not actually say." So I'm a little confused as to why you would assume the "dice" quote isn't authentic. Maybe I wasn't specific enough? I did not say or mean that all quotes ever attributed to him are not authentic, just that his words have been invented/taken out of context/misquoted so many times in order to promote so many different agendas that there are a large amount of fake quotes/stories attributed to him. That’s not surprising because who better to support an argument than someone widely acknowledged to be one of the smartest people to ever live?

Einstein definitely did not believe in a personal god. If you want to equate his belief in the natural laws of the universe with a belief in a universal intelligence, I don’t think that’s too farfetched, although I would be cautious in equating his belief in the natural laws of the universe with any specific spiritual systems. When he was directly asked if he was religious, he replied "Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion." He was very specific that "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic," and many letters and interviews reiterate his agnosticism. Because of his affinity for Spinoza, it’s reasonable to wonder if he was a pantheist, but he specifically stated he was not. He believed religion was “an incarnation of the most childish superstitions” and he also called astrology a “pseudo-science” and “superstition.”

His actual quote about the uncertainty principle within context is: "Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does not really bring us any closer to the secret of the 'old one'. I, at any rate, am convinced that He does not throw dice." Einstein was referring to the scientific laws of nature as "the old one/He" and the probabilities as "dice games."

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posted June 04, 2010 04:48 PM         

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I believe that the Universe is God. I don't define myself as agnostic, but I probably could be called one. Actually, depending on one's perspective, I could be called many things. Einstein chose a label to define his beliefs, just as I have- but I told my agnostic friend who calls himself an atheist, that we believe in the same thing but just choose to call it different things.

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Blog

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posted June 06, 2010 05:54 AM         

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I'm ok with calling the Cosmos God/dess or even some spiritual design, but that's very different from accepting the Bible or Koran as a unique transcendental truth about it.

Oh, btw, I knew this was glurge, there was just too many things that jumped out at me as "not bloody likely" even without the tone. And I pity the one who tries these arguments with the determine atheists because most of them (especially college educated) will tear them apart like steel through tissue paper. And the Christian who invented this story not only broke the commandment against bearing false witness but also shows a vapid understanding of the Bible.

I know someone who studied physics in college before she burned out on it. I LOVED hearing her metaphysical musings, and I'd have loved to have heard Einstein (the real one, not this imaginary one) muse on such things. But alas this is a story meant to inspire faith, not thinking.

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From: on the other side of the rainbow
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posted June 09, 2010 02:26 AM         

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Interesting

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quote:

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies with in us."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From: Australia
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posted June 09, 2010 04:40 AM         

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I love this story! It shows the strengths of aspergers syndrome!!

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Posts: 181
From: deerfield
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 09, 2010 08:17 AM         

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With religion & spirituality, science & faith aside - this is a good story.

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"Start by doing what is necessary, then what is possible, then suddenly you are doing the impossible” Saint Francis of Assisi

"Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
Robert Hunter

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From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted June 12, 2010 07:08 PM         

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From: MN, USA
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posted June 22, 2010 10:55 AM         

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There is actually a video on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvhGeNzdRZA

though it is much shorter than the post here. enjoy

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From: Toledo, OH
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posted June 22, 2010 11:04 AM         

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brilliant. thank you for posting. I was studying last night on darwin-ism and intelligent design and how hitler was actually a darwin extremist... and how you have to carefully consider these things as a whole, before understanding what you have decided to believe. most facinating. thank you again for posting this.

i think quantum physics will soon blow it out of the water, when they prove there actually is more to life than what we see, touch taste feel and smell.

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From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted June 29, 2010 06:34 PM         

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Liked the video your shared! thanks......

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posted June 29, 2010 11:52 PM         

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Amos 3:6, Micah 1:12, and especially Isaiah 45:7 give a different view.

Then there's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology

I've even thought some of what Jesus did is evil, as just one example what he did to the fig tree (I forget which version, there are 2 contradictory versions found in the 4 gospels and I only mean one of them).

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posted June 30, 2010 12:11 PM         

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I'm pretty sure it's fake, too,
though what Kat said about Einstein is true.
He was a theist, as Spinoza was.

But, regardless...

Taken on it's own merits,
the piece is Sophistry 101.

Sophistry is excusable
with respect to poetic license,
but it's not a real argument.

To say that evil is the absence of good,
or of God, is not to disprove, but,
to define evil.

It makes no difference
whether is it absence or entity.
The absence of heat IS cold.
That's what the argument amounts to.

So, we may conclude that,
even if good, and God, is everywhere,
it is, nevertheless, lacking in some places.

And this lack goes so far
as to exhibit itself in horrors.

So we can say that,
even where God exists,
and exists as good,
there is horror.

Or, "the absence of peace".

However you want to frame it,
to make it more palatable.

It may indeed be a more positive
way of looking at the world, but,
really, it's saying the same thing.

Whether you oppose good to evil,
or to the absence of good,
there is still duality.

Personally, I find it disingenuous.
It's like "newspeak", in Orwell's 1984.

To say something is "ungood"
seems like the game of a child,
who is afraid to say "evil".

It reeks of the "thought police".

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posted July 04, 2010 06:32 AM         

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I don't care if it's fake or real, I just love the message of it. You can dispute hot, cold, dark, light, but for me this single line says everything:

quote:

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Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart.

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That's what resonates with me, and makes sense to me. It simply fits with how I see and live in my world.

BiBi, thank you for sharing this, regardless as to whether it actually happened, this is my favourite thing I have ever read.

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Posts: 436
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted July 06, 2010 03:10 AM         

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Peace Angel...
thank you... that's why I posted it up in the first place... the message

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posted July 06, 2010 10:44 PM         

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