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Author
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Topic: Can't afford health insurance? We'll help with a FINE!
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Eleanore
Moderator Posts: 41
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 08, 2009 09:28 PM
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul quote:
WASHINGTON – Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama's effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.As Obama talked strategy with Democratic leaders at the White House, the one idea that most appeals to his party's liberal base lost ground in Congress. Prospects for a government-run plan to compete with private insurers sank as a leading moderate Democrat said he could no longer support the idea. The fast-moving developments put Obama in a box. As a candidate, he opposed fines to force individuals to buy health insurance, and he supported setting up a public insurance plan. On Tuesday, fellow Democrats publicly begged to differ on both ideas.
[bold mine]
******
roflmao Just ... the funniest ... stupidest ... can't-believe-anyone-thinks-this-is-a-solution-unless-they've-never-been-poor ... can't stop laughing.
Ah! (wipes tears) This is what we get when the children of pudding set out to save the world. 
(breathes) But, where are all the anti-vaccine, pro-natural healthcare people I so admire? Whether or not you like Pres. Obama is irrelevant. Expand the government into MANDATORY healthcare/insurance and how are you going to oppose the procedures for which the government mandates you should be covered? Snowflakes ----> snowball ----> avalanche.
IP: Logged |
Xodian
Moderator Posts: 139
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 08, 2009 09:34 PM
The ironic part of it all is the fact that in his platform outline, he opposed the idea of forcing people to buy legislated healthcare plans... Ah politics... Somethings never change.EDIT: Oh wait; The article already mentioned that Lol! IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1330
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 08, 2009 09:40 PM
Isn't that what Hillary wanted to do? That seems like the Hillary plan! I am a liberal,and I am against this. also I am a military veteran,and so I go to Vetaran Affairs hospital for my health care. Raymond ------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Knowflake Posts: 1330
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 08, 2009 09:40 PM
Isn't that what Hillary wanted to do? That seems like the Hillary plan! Raymond ------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively" - Eckhart Tolle IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 1349
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 08, 2009 10:24 PM
That is a proposal a Republican is pushing. (EDIT: This is not an accurate statement)IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 02:48 PM
eleanore, i haven't seen an actual bill yet. no one has. and though mandatory insurance would be the pits, i don't think it is a floatable consideration.in any case you can't make a person pay that kind of fine if they don't have it. even the irs is obliged to leave you with certain living expenses beyond which they can't touch you...and though i have heard this idea put forward it goes hand in hand with subsidies to people below certain income levels. over and over again it is the REPUBLICANS who are complaining about government run healthcare, when the people trying to set it up have never mentioned it! obama may have expressed a desire to put in singlepayer nationalized insurance, but he has also openly acknowledge it is too big a leap from where we are, and he hasn't pushed for it at ALL. IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 761
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 05:32 PM
quote:
That is a proposal a Republican is pushing...acoustic
Pray tell acoustic, exactly which "Republican" is pushing a proposal to fine Americans $3800 or any other amount for refusing to buy O'BomberCare insurance? I agree with you Eleanore. This is gross stupidity 2.0. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 1349
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 06:16 PM
Oh, it appears I was wrong on that. I thought the article made Baucus out to be a Republican. I didn't know Montana favored a Democrat.IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 136
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 06:48 PM
Thats all good Eleanore, I can afford the $3,800.00 a lot quicker than I can $5,800.00 for BC/BS.... oh wait, the fine would be on top of my current out of pocket health care.------------------
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 1349
From: acousticgod@sbcglobal.net
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 07:31 PM
No, it wouldn't be on top of your healthcare costs unless you just pay out of pocket every time. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 136
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 08:33 PM
quote:
No, it wouldn't be on top of your healthcare costs unless you just pay out of pocket every time.
... and indeed I do. Self employed and close to six grand a year for the most basic (practically useless unless hospital required) insurance. Thank God I`m a healthy farm girl
Makes the fine seem, well, cheap  ------------------
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 255
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 08:47 PM
If this actually becomes a bill rather than a mere proposal, please let me know. I'm not going to worry about it until then. I've got enough stress right now without focusing on every lame brained proposal, most of which get shot down before even becoming a bill. People who say "health care is a right" need to be as vehemently against this as everyone else. After all, this proposal isn't about making a health care a "right" but a DUTY. That's the exact opposite of Canada and other countries they say we should copy in this matter. Now's the time to see who is passionate about the issues, and who are just partisan jerks that will back whatever their masters come up with, no matter how contrary it is to the principles they preach. Of course once its mandatory, the prices for insurance--which they won't even cover you many times (unless you get a good lawyer)--will go up. This has happened before with auto insurance in Texas, but it all disappears down the memory hole. These are the details and PEOPLE NEVER LEARN. It's very upsetting to me. And this proposal also reminds me of something a sufi (Idries Shah) said once: quote:
A poor man said to a rich one: 'All my money goes on food.''Now that's your trouble,' said the rich man. 'I only spend five percent of MY money on food.'
If you don't get how this applies to people who don't have health insurance in regards to this insane proposal, then you have absolutely no right to consider yourself wise on how to care for the poor and financially hurting. Please spare us your stupidity that you mistake for "compassion," we've got enough problems without you making us homeless and then clucking about how we need more government to take care of the homeless YOU and your government "solutions" created in the first place. Thank you. IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 218
From: Nov. 11 2005
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 09:18 PM
Dervish like a calibrated bell, you always ring true.IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 09, 2009 09:22 PM
well they ARE talking about mandatory insurance as in mandatory car insurance. but they are also offering subsidies to people who can't afford it, dreadful eh?as to $3800 that's the cheapest plan i could find 7 years ago and it didn't seem worth it at the time, what with co-pays and deductibles and exclusions etc, all of which should be eliminated in many policies if this goes ahead. and if you're paying for insurance you won't be fined for it...? govt option still on the table but not a deal-breaker apparently... and still there is NO BILL so any scaremongering conclusions being jumped to are PREMATURE. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 10, 2009 02:35 PM
i wonder how any of the naysayers would fix the situation-as-is, ie insurance is too expensive for most people as it is, and medicine too?personally i don't DO doctors, but if they want to include massage and other preventive treatments i will be happy to pay into the pot so everyone can get covered. however if it isn't a lot cheaper than 300/month they will have to figure out how to include a lot of people who CAN:T pay. IP: Logged |
Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 255
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 10, 2009 04:27 PM
As soon as I get resettled, I'm gonna look into cooperatives, just as I already am for some groceries. Here's a mainstream description of what I'm talking about:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/18/cooperatives.doctors.patients/
And as for other solutions, this one woman makes some passionate points at a Townhall meeting which actually strikes me as plausible (and refreshingly free of references to Nazis, socialism, etc):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAm6Qck5v78
IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 10, 2009 06:01 PM
it's a mistake though to say canadian healthcare is free, since it has to come out of taxes, no? as in england. this just makes the tax monthly.i'm with whoever said there's no point worrying about it till they actually come up with a bill. which has yet to happen. but at least the folks who are happy paying thousands on thousands for their insurance won't have to help the rest of us. how wonderful. in fact their premiums should go down with EVERYone having to pay... prices will inevitably go up as they always do, you're right. until we put our feet down and refuse to pay EN MASSE, inflation will continue...and people will continue to be fooled into thinking the economy is growing because the numbers are bigger! IP: Logged |
Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 255
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 10, 2009 08:24 PM
I don't know...if EVERYONE has to be insured, that's a HUGE risk to insurance companies who can no longer screen out people with dangerous lifestyles and conditions...which means everyone pays more to cover the bigger risks. I expect it would encourage the insurance companies to be even bigger pigs about finding loopholes in not paying, too (which, natch, will hurt those who can't afford it as they can't afford a good lawyer either). IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 761
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 12, 2009 08:02 AM
Look out Dervish.If...what this woman says rings true to you..or if you find what she says..plausable..you may be a conservative. We've been trying for tort reform to eliminate junk law suits, opening up competition in health care by permitting purchasing across state lines...and letting free markets operate to control prices of health care and health insurance. demoscats oppose anything which is not controlled by government. That's the reason some insurance companies have a virtual monopoly in some states and there's no competition. That's government mandated monopoly and it's usually a result of large campaign contributions to politicians. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 12, 2009 12:28 PM
where is this free market you keep talking about, jwhop? the insurance business is run by a relatively few international corporations who work together to keep the options pretty narrow for everyone. in maine one corp owns 70% of the insurance market. in alabama, apparently, one covers 90%! this is a free market??the point of mandatory is that people are paying in (minimally, one presumes) during their healthiest years, ie the years a lot of people don't bother with insurance. this floats the portion of the population that actually needs coverage and everyone is covered, patients and insurance companies and doctors. i don't go to doctors and i don't expect there will be much coverage of "complementary" medicine, ie that outside the pharmaceutical/surgical arena; but i guess i would just as soon pay the insurance companies if they had decent policies without exclusions, as the government (ie instead of paying taxes you pay for insurance in this plan). and this means that YOU, jwhop, won't have to pay for MY coverage, only your own. and should i NEED emergency help or expensive care in future, i won't have to go the emergency room route and burden you with the excess premiums that pay for THOSE people at present. the only way you can avoid paying for the uninsured is by a) refusing them treatment or b)raising taxes or c)making THEM pay for the insurance. as things stand, everyone who DOES have coverage is paying approximately $1K/year to cover the UNinsured. is that fair? IP: Logged |
jwhop
Knowflake Posts: 761
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 12, 2009 01:38 PM
With the government, both state and federal meddling in health insurance there is no free market. Government is the problem with their mandates and monopoly grants.O'BomberCare will magnify...greatly magnify government meddling in health insurance...and health care. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 1644
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 12, 2009 02:51 PM
well, go on paying for my emergency visits then! thanks!!IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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