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Author Topic:   How much do you know about Islam?
NosiS
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posted November 07, 2009 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
I do not have any experience with it whatsoever, but the little that I've been learning about the tenets and the culture of the Arabic world has been eating at my ignorance.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/radicals.mosque/index.html

Has anyone here heard of Reliance of the Traveler?

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koiflower
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posted November 08, 2009 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
Will check out your website later. I saw the Koran in a bookshop and it has encouraged me to buy it for a closer look.

I read in "The Next Hundred Years" by G. Friedman, that the war with Iraq will just become a memory like the Spanish War.

So, hopefully any irritating feelings between the States and Islamic countries would have changed course.

I know so little and you probably can tell, by this post.

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jwhop
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posted November 08, 2009 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
November 08, 2009
Memo to ABC: There's a Reason He's Not Called Smith
By C. Edmund Wright

Diane Sawyer - either espousing her editorial fantasy or a quoting a third hand comment from an anonymous "military wife" -- was dreadfully upset that the mass murderer from Fort Hood was not named Smith. One can only imagine how thrilled she'd have been had he been named something like, oh I don't know, Palin.

From what I can deduce, had his name been Smith it would be much easier for the Diane Sawyers of the Jurassic media to cover up what they fear really went on here. (In perhaps a related story, none of the 9-11 attackers were in the Smith family either.) And what appears to have gone wrong is that a poster child for every wrong headed politically correct liberal program our great military has been forced to accept blew a gasket and took 13 un-armed American soldiers out. Predictably blew a gasket I might add.

While many facts are yet to be determined, what we do know is that a man not named Smith -- but named Hasan -- had some decidedly un-Smith like beliefs and he was rather adamant about espousing them. That is to say, this well paid U.S. Army Major held some beliefs strangely coincident with the very people that most U.S. Army Majors are fighting against. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the idea that sympathy with the enemy is called "treason" rather than the modern touchy feely idea that it is simply a "healthy diversity."

Such diversity wasn't too damned healthy for about 45 soldiers, now was it? According to the coroner's report, many are even beyond sensitivity training at this point. Where is George Patton to slap some sense into someone when you need him?

We also know that a major who happens to be a devout follower of Islam -- the well documented religion of peace -- strode into one of the principal gathering points at Fort Hood and shot 40 some unarmed military personnel. Among them was a pregnant woman.

We also know that Major Hasan, quite consistent with many who follow Islam -- that well documented religion of peace -- was quite taken with the idea of the Middle Eastern homicide bombers. He is known to have compared them with valiant U.S. soldiers throwing themselves on a grenade to save buddies. Now I hate to quibble, but isn't a suicide bomber actually the opposite of those diving on a grenade?

And while we're on the subject of Islam -- that well documented religion of peace -- Hasan apparently agreed with Bin Laden's PR department that what the U.S. is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is occupation. Further, the U.S. military is just a bunch of infidels. Hasan has indicated he was in favor of our losing the wars in both theatres.

Now in a country that would not stand for the idea of Derek Jeter switching to Philly red in the middle of the World Series, what sense does it make to have Major Hasan in our military? For crying out loud, "don't ask don't tell" should not apply to the notion of whose side you are on!

In reality though, this was not even a case of don't ask don't tell. No one had to ask Major Hasan to get him to tell people what he believed. He was against the war in Iraq, against the war in Afghanistan and allegedly verbally pro-Allah as he was gunning down unarmed American soldiers.

Imagine in World War II if an American officer had shouted "Heil Hitler" as he was killing un-armed soldiers. Would there be any soul-searching debate about "PRE-traumatic stress syndrome" and other gobbledy goop? And if his name were Schmidt -- oddly close to Smith actually -- would Diane Sawyer be in a snit?

Of course, this would never have happened in WW2. Things are different today. Somehow our military remains the best in the world while accommodating all kinds of fast track programs for psychiatrist officers whose name sounds a lot like those on the roster at Gitmo while ignoring the detail that he might be anti-American.

And that's the real story here. He was not named Smith. He didn't act like a Smith or talk like a Smith or have allegiances like a Smith. He was so not-a-Smith that someone should have noticed. Or more to the point, our military should not be so eaten up with political correctness that the many who did notice were forced to shut up about it. This was so utterly predictable, which is to say utterly preventable.

That's not to say folks named Hasan should not be in the military. It just might be a good idea if they held onto some mudane Smith type attitudes, like perhaps being pro-American. This is not discrimination. ALL soldiers, regardless of their name, should be pro-American at a minimum. Surely this is logical.

Of course, what else is predictable is how the media is covering it. In the words of an NPR report: "we know he took his faith seriously, but we can't say for sure that was a factor." Right. That's exactly what they say about anyone who bombs an abortion clinic, as we know. Finding out that Hasan is a follower of Islam is harder to discover in most reports as was the fact that Eliot Spitzer was a Democrat.

Equally predictable is our President -- who is also not named Smith by the way. Barack Hussein Obama was giving "shout-outs" to folks at a speech related to native Americans at the Department of the Interior shortly after the news of the Fort Hood tragedy broke. This is not George Bush rapidly finishing a two-minute story to the school kids he was already in front of after hearing the horrific news of 9-11 whispered into his ear. No. This was a President who had time to delay, cancel or at least, reprogram a very non-crucial photo op in light of the news.

The only thing missing was Jeremiah Wright hootin and hollerin about "America's chickens" and high fiving and so on. I mean, God bleep America, we deserved it, didn't we? At the very least, Obama's reaction can charitably be characterized as cold. And not cool at all.

Now all we can hope is that the Army and the FBI will have the courage to look into the reasons his name was not Smith, and what light that might shed on what happened. Like many, I suspect that there is a relationship there. We can only hope that the FBI will reverse their decision to not even "discuss" the idea that terrorism was involved.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/memo_to_abc_theres_a_reason_he.html

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NosiS
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posted November 08, 2009 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
In my observations, I see an ancient culture whose spread not only dominated for some time but has given certain of its influences in the Christian West (the fatalistic/deterministic approach of the inorganic sciences as just one of many possible examples). I see a religion whose long traditions have come into conflict with the cultural evolution that the world has experienced (traditional perspectives on women's rights and slavery, for example). I see Muslims (with the exception of too few) that are too afraid to speak out against the maladies of Islamic, extremist philosophy because there is no real organization within the Islamic community that stands firmly against it (and because much of these extremist philosophies still have a firm grip on the culture of Arabic countries).

To paraphrase, there is a great trembling in my heart for the future of things to come. In regards to the inherent anti-Semitism and lack of respect for other ways of life found in the fascist interpretations of the Quran by Sharia law, if the adherents of Islam do not live up to their own responsibilities, towards the tolerance (and by that I mean a "proper" definition of the word, not a simple indifference) that should be awarded to those that do not share their religion, then there can only be a furtherance of discord and more war to come. Without this tolerance, and only a mere indifference to other faiths, what other word could we use for the description of such behavior that would be more accurate than "bigotry"? Let's call a spade a spade and not fool ourselves, shall we?

Given the complex nature of the spread of these conflicts, it has become obvious to me that this clashing of Western and Eastern principles is unavoidable. Finding the blame for the situation will not produce any solution and knowing what may be done to soothe it, if anyone with authority might arrive at such, will hardly be something that could be capably executed. There are strong karmic knots in this situation and, it saddens me to think it but, I cannot feel any possible resolution to these conflicts without more war and destruction as a result.

Anyone feel the same?

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katatonic
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posted November 08, 2009 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
so is it only muslim soldiers who go ballistic and shoot everyone in the near vicinity? i somehow doubt it. this was not a single occurence. and the bottom of it has not been reached yet, so commentary without full knowledge of the facts is a little premature, not to say biased...oh well, what else can we expect from the media, eh?

is our christian faith of peace responsible for us having military stationed all over the world? or is it something a little more material and less forgiving at work?

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Xodian
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posted November 08, 2009 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
I find it completely appauling that the media convineantly decided to point the finger of this particular at Muslims. And how convinient that the brain dead Islamophobes would quickly jump on the hate filled tried and true bad wagon and point fingers at the Muslim community for pushing a man who had shown signs of mental fatigue and trouble for quite a while yet no one on the army sought to do anything about it.

Lets list out the attacks done by other soldiers thus far to date shall we?

• May 11, 2009: Five soldiers shot dead at Camp Liberty in Baghdad by Sgt. John Russell.

• Sept. 8, 2008: Spc. Jody Michael Wirawan shoots himself to death after killing 1st Lt. Robert Bartlett Fletcher at Fort Hood.

• Feb. 25, 2008: Dustin Thorson, an Air Force technical sergeant, fatally shoots his son and daughter at home on Tinker Air Base in Oklahoma in domestic dispute with ex-wife. He had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder after returning from Iraq.

• June 7 2005: Two National Guard officers are killed by a grenade at headquarters in Tikrit. Staff Sgt. Alberto Martinez is later acquitted of murder in a court-martial.

• Oct. 27, 1995: Sgt. William Kreutzer goes on shooting spree at Fort Bragg, killing one and injuring 18 in a sniper attack during formation. He is serving a life sentence after a death sentence was overturned.


I find it truly INSULTING that the media is portraying ALL MUSLIMS who serve in the damned army as a possible threat and the brain dead masses are lapping it all up. My God... These men and women are willing to lay their lives down to protect the American people! I think they deserve a bit more respect then that.


And Noisis, maybe you need to look at events like these for a change:


Muslim group calls for burka ban in Canada

By Charles Lewis

http://www.canada.com/life/Muslim+group+calls+burka+Canada/2081876/story.html

TORONTO — A Canadian Muslim group is calling on Ottawa to ban the wearing of the burka in public, saying the argument that the right to wear it is protected by the charter's guarantee of freedom of religion is false.

"The burka has absolutely no place in Canada," said Farzana Hassan, of the Muslim Canadian Congress. "In Canada we recognize the equality of men and women. We want to recognize gender equality as an absolute. The burka marginalizes women."

She said many women who cover their face in public are being forced to by their husbands and family. As a result, she argued, these women are denied opportunities and cannot live freely as other women in this society.

"The Koran exhorts Muslims toward modesty, which can be expressed in a number of different ways and it doesn't have to be that you have to cover your face or you have to wear a virtual tent wherever you go. This is not a requirement of Islam or the Koran. We are saying this practice has become a political issue promoted by extremists and to counter this trend we are asking for a ban on the burka."

The proposal calls for the banning of "masks, niqabs and burkas." A niqab covers the face but allows the eyes to be seen; a burka covers the entire body and the eyes are obscured by a mesh covering.

"For me that is a huge embarrassment," said Hassan. "It brings the kind of criticism Muslims (unfairly) face."

Hassan said her group is bringing this up now because of an edict released this week in Egypt, by a top Muslim authority, calling for a ban on the burka.

Hassan said she is not asking for the banning of the hijab, which just covers the hair, but she would also like to see that custom vanish.

Professor Amir Hussain, who teaches theology at Loyola Marymount College in Los Angeles, but grew up in Toronto, said the fact that the burka is not in the Koran does not mean that it is not part of authentic religious practice and that many religions absorb cultural practices that eventually become sacred.

He said he does not believe there are enough women wearing the burka in Canada to call it a serious issue. But for those women who are being forced to wear it by family members, the best way to deal with it is to reach out to those women on an individual level.

He said any legal ban will infringe on fundamental democratic rights.

"In Turkey, a secular society, it is illegal to wear it. In Iran you'll be punished if you don't wear it. Either way imposing a belief on women."

In the past few years, the debate over what kind of religious dress should be allowed has been loud and intense.

In June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy went so far as to call a parliamentary commission to look at whether to ban the wearing of burkas and niqabs in public. In France, religious headgear of any faith has already been banned in public schools.

Also in June, the Michigan Supreme Court amended its rules of evidence to give trial judges discretion over whether a woman can be fully veiled when testifying or when bringing accusations. The new rule did not mention Muslims but it will clearly affect Muslims.

Last year an Ontario judge said religious beliefs did not give a woman the right to wear a veil while testifying against her alleged rapist. The decision is now before the Ontario Court of Appeal.

In 2007, a Quebec election official created controversy when he said veiled Muslim women would have to take off their veil if they wanted to vote.

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NosiS
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posted November 09, 2009 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Xodian.

I sure hope that your reference to me as "Noisis" was an innocent typo.

In all honesty, your article is hardly comforting. I'm not sure if you have taken offense to the questions that I am bringing up here, but I just want to clarify that I do not harbor any hatred for nor fear against Islam or Muslims. I am just asking questions that beg to be answered.

With all due respect to women and their rights, the issue of the burqa/niqab is the least of our worries.

Xodian, I am earnestly trying to make sense of the severity of the intolerant, anti-Semitic/anti-apostate/anti-non-muslim bigotry that is often shown in the speech and subject matter of the propaganda that is spread in Arab countries, but I cannot wrap my mind around it.

I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty to ask, but:
Have you ever read or even heard of Reliance of the Traveler? What is your opinion on Sharia?

I'd really like to know.

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Xodian
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posted November 09, 2009 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
My sincerest apologies Nosis:

a) For the typo Lol!
b) If my post came out as a condemnation to your post. It wasn't my intention. You have every right to ask the given question.

quote:
With all due respect to women and their rights, the issue of the burqa/niqab is the least of our worries.

Unfortunately in Arab nations that have chosen to confuse the verses of the Quran with Archaic tribal laws, it isn't. Infact if women in those nations didn't choose to move on to bigger and better positions offered in more moderate Islamic nations that chose to value their rights, the hardliners in the nations in question wouldn't have bowed down to pressure and chosen to bend to the moderate POV for women's rights.

quote:
Xodian, I am earnestly trying to make sense of the severity of the intolerant, anti-Semitic/anti-apostate/anti-non-muslim bigotry that is often shown in the speech and subject matter of the propaganda that is spread in Arab countries, but I cannot wrap my mind around it.

There is no sense in it. Its a twisted facade of hate and bile that needs to be debunked once and for all. Ironically enough, even in hardline nations like Saudi Arabia who on the surface have chosen to disconnect all ties with Israel, there are silent trade talks going on with representatives from Israel and they have even collaborated togather to hunt down wanted terrorists who have inflicted harm to both nations. Most recently: Mughniyeh... The "former" commander of Hezbullah that bombed a U.S. compound in SA.

So yes, its absolutely horrendous and more Muslims do need to speak out on the matter without fear. I have chosen to do it. So can others.


As for my views on the Sharia law, I can honestly say that its the single most warped up parchment that has been misinterperted way too many times. While I agree that harsh punishment for criminals is the key for maintaining order, the Jurisprudence through which the proceedings go through the Sharia law aremjust... Argh! Ergo the misinterpertation can only end when a secular base law has been introduced that a huge majority of people can agree upon.

However, I do support the presence of the Monarchy in given Arab nations. If it weren't for the monarcy, the extremists would be running the nations with even more unreasonable laws and idiocy.

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Dervish
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posted November 09, 2009 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
One thing I have noticed is that no matter how good or bad a text is, large parts of it will be emphasized and large parts ignored to fit the needs & desires of the believer. I mean that in a general sense, of course, as some won't and sometimes either give up their religion or will reject evil despite the Koran or Bible or whatever promoting it but feel intensely guilty over doing so. But the majority will have the ability to see what they want and ignore what they don't want to see (and call everyone else who sees & ignores what they choose to see & ignore as "false" believers).

The exceptions are where like oaths of loyalty are blunt and unambiguous. For example, I've never been a supporter of the Hamas faction in Palestine for clearly stating what they intend to do to Jews, as well as other people they don't like in their charter & public statements (as opposed to making a statement of what being a member of Hamas means to them).

And I don't like ANY theocracy. It doesn't matter the religion, both historical & contemporary times show me that making a specific religion as a dominating force in a government is a VERY BAD THING. Of course, many (but not all) predominantly Islamic regions have varying degrees of theocracy (some of them outright--the fact that they're opposed to other sects is irrelevant to me, just like the Catholics being protested by the Protestants or Orthodox is irrelevant, or the more contemporary Serbia or the African nations where barbaric Christians & barbaric Muslims vie for supremacy--and often for a brutal theocracy of their specific religion, or even sect).

I've never heard of the Reliance of the Traveler.

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shura
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posted November 10, 2009 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message
Nosis

I've been waiting years for you to broach the subject.

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pire
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posted November 11, 2009 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message
in france, 10% of the pop is muslim; sharia is out of order here because as opposed to england for example, france is very "centralised"; meaning there is one ideal, the laic republic, but there is tolerance for diversity. (work could be done to create situations which make tolerance easier though, but all in all we manage to mix;

islam is the second religion in france with 6 millions in a pop of 60. they APPEAR very attached to their principles but they aren't always following them;

islam is very peaceful and promote peace, love and respect.

i think islam is not sharia. like western countries aren't the illuminati;

people are looking for preconceived notions to put other in boxes, on all sides of the world.

great posts nosis

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pidaua
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posted November 11, 2009 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message
Xodian,

The Fort Hood Massacre sits heavy in my heart. The example you bring up about SGT Russell also breaks my heart.

He killed two Soldiers from our BDE. My husband, Bear the Leo, is STILL deployed, even though 1000 of our Soldiers are back. The ahole from Bamberg killed two of our guys. I WENT to their memorial. I cried at their memorial.

While this is an example TO YOU- this is ALL TOO real to me. My friends are at Fort Hood. When I saw what happened, I had no idea if several of Bear's colleagues, my friends, were okay. Hasan opened fire on an SRP- Soldier Readiness Preparation. As a Family Readiness Support Technician, I have to attend those SRP's.

Would it have been different if you read here that one of our own were killed by some jerk that used his religion to kill? What about the white, insane right-wing extremist that kills an abortion doctor? Would you tip toe around that or would you call a spade a spade?

This is ALL WAY too REAL to me. I live this life, I am one of the few people here that has a real dog in this race. Jwhop knows, Eleanore knows LaLaLinda knows. But most here live in a little bubble where this war or these wars are just something to talk about.

I have attended more than 15 memorials in less than 2 years. Not only for my DH's Brigade but for the Regiment that I work for. My friends- who I see as my family in the Regiment.. they will deploy to Afghanistan and replace the BDE that is losing so many people. These are the people I see on a daily basis. I take care of the families and Soldiers. I report to the squadron commander. It kills me that so many people would rather defend a piece of sh!t terrorist that used his religion to kill than our own Soldiers that fight for us to say this bullsh1t all the time.


Shame on you!

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shura
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posted November 11, 2009 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message
my stepdaughter is stationed at Ft Hood. very scary.

Pid

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Xodian
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posted November 11, 2009 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Pid:

While it may seem convinient to you to point fingers and get angry at others for stating the facts regarding the incident, maybe you should try to see the circumstances behind THEIR backgrounds.

I lived through the Gulf War. Heck I grew up near a U.S. fighter base in Taif and later in Riyad. My family and I used to live in a western housing complex in the region. I practically grew up around American Fighter pilots. I laughed with them, I morned with them, and it pained me so badly that every time they went up in the air, there was a possibility that they would get shot down by SAMs or a lucky hit by a two bit Iraqi jet. The friendship I developed with these pilots was life altering. The Gulf war ended, and I didn't have to worry about manditory service or Saddam anymore. But lo and behold, in comes that dickward Usama Bin Ladin and decides to blow up western housing complexes to send his twisted little messages. The family members of people I know died in those attacks... Americans included.

So please... Don't you personalize this conflict to one end alone. I know how you feel and in no way am I defending this douchebag's actions. I am certain he is about to get the firing squad treatment and rightfully so.

What irks me off is the fact that honourable Muslims are going to be lashed out at for this douche's actions and this is why I put those examples up. Treason knows no bounderies and they all were or are about to be punished accordingly.

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Dervish
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posted November 11, 2009 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Has ANYONE from the USA (or even the Western World in general) defended the guy who shot up Ft. Hood?

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katatonic
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posted November 11, 2009 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
no one has defended him. no one is tiptoeing around him the topic is trying to understand if the extremists are extremists because they are muslim, and what islam is really about.

glad you're okay pid and bear is still doing okay too. when do you get to come home?

but i wonder about this: " Would it have been different if you read here that one of our own were killed by some jerk that used his religion to kill? What about the white, insane right-wing extremist that kills an abortion doctor?"

since as i recall you were in the "serves'im right" category when that abortion doctor got killed. there are two sides to EVERY story.

and as i hear it whatever this guy was he was not exactly secretive about it but he got PROMOTED anyway and they were going to send him, a very unstable candidate for the job, to iraq?

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NosiS
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posted November 12, 2009 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
Hello, everyone.

Xodian,
Thank you again for responding.
I've been working on replying to you but it has been taking me a bit longer than I expected. I have been writing a little bit every day but I won't be able to complete it in a timely manner. Thanks for your patience.

Pidaua,

Thank you for taking part in this thread, despite it being so painful for you to read some of these words. I cannot imagine the kinds of emotions that you must confront on a daily basis and I know this must be extremely hard for you. I can only hope that something good will come of this conversation for those of us that need to hear it. These very real emotions that come out of the discussions of this very topic is one of the very things that I wanted to address in my reply.

Sorry all, for my delay. It will take me just a little longer to reply (perhaps another day or two?).

Blessings,

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NosiS
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posted November 14, 2009 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
Xodian,

quote:
Unfortunately in Arab nations that have chosen to confuse the verses of the Quran with Archaic tribal laws, it isn't. Infact if women in those nations didn't choose to move on to bigger and better positions offered in more moderate Islamic nations that chose to value their rights, the hardliners in the nations in question wouldn't have bowed down to pressure and chosen to bend to the moderate POV for women's rights.

I understand your meaning and although I agree that Muslim women fighting for their equality and rights under the law is an important current towards the confrontation against the fulcrum of the Middle East's conflicted state, I still feel strongly that our concerns must draw a greater attention to those forces that have allowed for this oppression of women to take place. (In stating this, I hope it is understood that I am not pretending to know any answers. I simply mean that I feel a great importance is owed to a conscious understanding of the elements that plague this highly relevant issue of our times.)

There is no way of getting to the roots of the conflict within Islam (and the turmoil that this conflict is unleashing upon the world) while trying to avoid certain truths simply because they might hurt others’ feelings. This is probably the most debilitating element in regards to this issue! The fact that we cannot even slightly talk about these things without detractions of thought and a flaring of volatile emotions interrupting the currents of conversation is not simply unfortunate – it is becoming THREATENING to the security of the world in the realest sense! This has been torturing me a great deal lately and so I have felt the necessity to lay my thoughts out candidly without fear or hesitation.

As a Christian, I am going to put forth some ideas that may seem biased. Depending on your definition, this may well be justified. With the intention of inviting a more accurate spirit, however, I will personally define my perspectives as “influenced”. These considerations, obviously, are from my own experiences through life and are therefore inspired by them. That fact alone should not be considered the weakness of my arguments, for that exactly would be the kind of dogmatic interpretation which I am arguing against. It is this kind of hardened, dogmatic thinking that is the same mechanism used by religious hardliners promoting atrocities across the world.

As I have said before, I harbor neither hatred nor fear against Islam or Muslims. If I may be accused of any trepidation in my thinking, I would confess that my heart trembles when I bring my mind to contemplate the spiritual meanings of the current maladies by which Islam and the world suffer. Although I look onward with much hope in knowing that the work of Christ is still being done throughout humanity, I am also highly aware of the work of an enmity that stands as the antithesis to Christ. I know this work well for its presence stands before me and affects me in a very real way. This enmity is the same that is the root of the debilitative characters involved in Islam and all spiritual life: the unquestionable adherence to a stale, spiritless, and rigidly interpreted dogma.

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NosiS
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posted November 14, 2009 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
In an observation of fairness, I would like to clarify that my opinion is not that Islam is the only religion that suffers from such an enmity. This is an enemy that is deeply involved within human nature. On the Christian side, we can see its effect in the romanticizing notion of the Gospels as historical records of the life of Jesus Christ written by his very disciples. There are many facts that confront us about this topic that deny a logical acceptance of such a notion. The Gospels were originally written in Greek and not in any Semitic language, for example. Also, there is the consideration that the literate population at this time would not have included the very average men that Christ called to follow Him. Many other facts like these call our questioning to the validity of this notion. Despite these facts often being used as an opening for atheism or other knee-jerk reactions, I have come to see this as a revelation. Christ cannot be approached by the search for any physical evidence of His physical existence and, instead, the spiritual realm where He resides can be the only way to know Him. It is by our inner life, the life of the individual ego, which we can enter the spiritual realm and it is by this thinking that I begin to find a more fluid interpretation of the quote, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” In my experiences, I find there are many Christians that cannot seem to hold to their faith without believing that the Gospels are historical records of Jesus Christ and, because of this, their arguments often become unreasonable. As strange as it is, there are those who cannot understand the work of Christ as a truly spiritual work and only see the edification of churches, religions and dogma as the manifestation of Christ’s authority. I make a reference to this because it is an example that I hope may quell any accusations of blind prejudice in my position. As I am quite capable of understanding that the enmity that I refer to is not something confined only to Islam, I must equally confess to myself the unequivocal and dissimilar manner in which Islam is gripped by this enmity.

The hard-line approach to interpretation is, in every way, a mechanism that constricts and chokes the spirit of life in human wisdom. In the most obvious example of our times, the rigidness of jihadists results in their sickening propagation of barbarism. Again, this takes place through an inhuman compliance to dogma that proceeds with the strictest belief that Islam is the one true religion. When this works upon them, the pitiful jihadists justify the atrocities that they perform because they become physical declarations of the authenticity and authority of Islam. This is one manner in which it becomes clear to reason that these jihadists operate through a great measure of insanity. These are not, in any way, a people that are fighting for their rights and equality. By their very actions they have, in a very real way, sacrificed their own humanity for something that falls horribly short of a fair deal.

The discussions that have flourished on the topic of moderate and radical Islam are many and varied. This seems an obvious development as the relevance that this topic has to our current period grows exponentially. There are some that simplify the cause of the problem at hand to the lack of secularism in Islamic states. This is a futile argument. Secularism has been practiced to varying degrees in many Islamic countries. The difference in the Middle East is that secularism is condoned and not directly addressed. The hijab (an Islamic code for dress), for example, is not actually a legal requirement in most Muslim countries. Of course, there isn’t often the need to make it law since most Muslims in the Middle East are very compliant to the doctrines of their religion. This is not to say that most Muslims are mere followers. Most Muslims, as a people, simply have a strong impulse to sacrifice everything for that which is moral and good. The unfortunate side of this character - with such potential for virtue - is that when it is coupled with a hyper-dependence on the world of the senses, it can often become a recipe for great volatility. This is most readily perceptible in the observance of the hijab. Muslim women are often very willing and even proud to wear burqas and niqabs because they see it as something that is good for the community. This is where the Arabesque character is most notable, too. Lust, as a great detractor of the hearts of men, is perceived directly as something that occurs in the physical world. In observing this, a great attention is given to the attractiveness of women in this regard. Therefore, it is the attractiveness of women that seems to be the cause of men’s lust. In other words, the spiritual value for the presence of the hijab in the Islamic tradition is found in the direct perception of the physical world through the senses. It is in this particular manner of experiencing the world, a manner that seems to me more fitting for the adjective “secular”, that allows for the acceptance of this tradition to take place even today, in the most “secular” of times. Many Muslim women hold fast to their nature in willing to make great sacrifices for what is right. So much so, that they are willing to sacrifice even their own rights. It should easily, then, be realized that a ban of such behavior is not addressing the root issue. Such adherence simply fights fire with fire. Those that would ban the burqa for this reason become exactly that to which they are opposed without even realizing it. (This is not to support the notion that no restrictions should apply. I find myself quite opposed to this garb in certain places like banks, for example).

This is why I feel that the article on the burqa ban has no positive value. On the contrary, I feel that this distracts from the issues that Muslims are in great need of addressing. How is it that the existences of madrassas, that twist the minds of little children with the perversions of jihad, are allowed to continue their operations? Why is the Middle-East so ridden with great contempt and scorn for non-Muslims and Western nations? Is it possible to question Islamic tradition and to support the establishment of a more moderate Islam without being accused of apostasy by dogmatic believers?

Understanding this situation in the highest sense is urgently required of all of us. We cannot afford to lose any sense of this to the comfort we allow ourselves in ignorance and detachment. If this has not affected some in a direct way presently, it is sure to do so some time in the future. For, as I have mentioned, my heart fears that the enmity so prevalent in Islam will begin to flourish in a Western manner. When the West begins to uniformly call the Middle-East out on its bigotry, its brain-washing, its oppression and so on, there may very well be a transference of character in Western nations that lies outside the fringes of Christ’s synthesis.

Peace be with us.

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Xodian
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posted November 14, 2009 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Nosis, a very astute post and for once I am glad that someone asked all the right questions; Questions that need to be addressed.

And like you, I am going to reply to your post a bit late . Gota full day ahead of me. I do want to give you complete reply though so stay tuned for that .

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amowls*
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From: richmond va
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 14, 2009 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls*     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not religious. I'll even go as far to say that I'm a Christian Atheist. I grew up in a very diverse area where there are a lot of people from Arab/Persian backgrounds, most of them are also not religious. One of my best friends is actually from Bosnia and fled the country because of the genocide committed there against Muslims. Though she is not religious (the only thing she does is not eat pork), her family had to leave the country because they celebrate Ramadan. She is a refugee, as weird as that is to think about.

I think people being afraid of Muslims or Arabs in the military are born out of straight up ignorance. They obviously have not been around these people or their culture. Muslims are like Christians. Most of them live normal lives, have friends and families, go to Mosque once a week, have jobs, and participate in the community. Not all of them are extremist and in fact, Christian extremists scare me as much as any other kind. People like Pat Robertson, the abortion terrorists, EVEN Sarah Palin, scare the sh*t out of me. A Christian Theocracy is much more likely in this country than the Taliban coming over here and making us all convert to Islam.

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katatonic
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posted November 14, 2009 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
when i was growing up in the US, many years ago! there was not much recognition of islam, or other "oriental" religions. you just didn't come across them much! of course we had oriental immigrants and citizens, but i think most of them were either largely secular in bent or kept their religions to themselves, and why not? whose business is your relationship with god anyway?

that was a different time. while there WERE some religious "bigots" (my church is the right church) mostly religion was a personal affair and not something to be commented on. of course this homogenous outlook tended to exclude jews...many of whom changed their names on entering the country so as to be less subject to scrutiny and discrimination. i think it took WWII and a huge influx of jewish refugees to create a space of tolerance and even protection of judaism here in the states...

but i find it interesting that we devote so much time and attention on the transgressions and misapprehensions of islam while our own fundamentalists become more blatant and confrontational every day. the horrible similarity between, as pidaua pointed out, the religious nut who shot the abortion doctor in kansas and the religious nut who will blow himself up to take out a few "infidel" is what has created many of the most atrocious wars of our histories.

the crusades - almost a thousand years ago it was the christians who marched into muslim land to eradicate the devil from men's lives [ the fact that there was also a huge financial motive tends to go unnoticed when religion comes into the propaganda picture] even today many people do not see the outrageousness of our "christian" countries condescending to all others in our sincere attempts to "save" people from UNCHRISTIAN lives [you can substitute UNDEMOCRATIC or UNFREE if you like!]

AND WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS WHAT SOMEONE ELSE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD LOOKS LIKE?

so i think the remarkable thing is that it has taken this long for islam to assume the same stance...all non-muslims need to be either converted or destroyed...it sounds just like the hardline christian M.O. to me.
and we crusading christians have contributed to the ferocity of their extremism by pushing our own.

as to the burqas, i can actually see how it might be LIBERATING for women to cover themselves and thus not have to preoccupy themselves with HOW THEY LOOK. are they attractive enough? not an issue. it takes the sex angle out of a large portion of daily life where it really doesn't belong anyway. but the ENFORCED wearing of coverup is certainly repressive and oppressive to all, not just women.

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NosiS
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posted November 14, 2009 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
No prob, Xodian. Take all the time you need.

BTW, I was wondering whether or not you are still a practicing Muslim and, if so, are you a Sunni, Shi'a, or another denomination?

I understand if these questions are too private to answer.

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NosiS
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posted November 14, 2009 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
shura,

quote:
I've been waiting years for you to broach the subject.

What on earth are you talking about?

If there's something I love about Scorpios, it's that you all follow a different set of rules altogether.

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 211
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Registered: Jun 2009

posted November 15, 2009 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message
there's really not much to it, nosis.

just interested in your thoughts.

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