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Author Topic:   Socialism Explained (by request)
juniperb
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From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted September 06, 2011 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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juniperb
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posted September 06, 2011 11:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000450.html

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Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it. ~Rumi~

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Randall
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posted September 07, 2011 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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jwhop
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posted September 07, 2011 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why socialism is evil
Posted: November 19, 2008


Walter E Williams

Evil acts can be given an aura of moral legitimacy by noble-sounding socialistic expressions such as spreading the wealth, income redistribution or caring for the less fortunate. Let's think about socialism.

Imagine there's an elderly widow down the street from you. She has neither the strength to mow her lawn nor enough money to hire someone to do it. Here's my question to you, and I'm almost afraid for the answer: Would you support a government mandate that forces one of your neighbors to mow the lady's lawn each week? If he failed to follow the government orders, would you approve of some kind of punishment ranging from house arrest and fines to imprisonment? I'm hoping that the average American would condemn such a government mandate because it would be a form of slavery, the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another.

Would there be the same condemnation if instead of the government forcing your neighbor to physically mow the widow's lawn, the government forced him to give the lady $40 of his weekly earnings? That way the widow could hire someone to mow her lawn. I'd say that there is little difference between the mandates. While the mandate's mechanism differs, it is nonetheless the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another.

Probably most Americans would have a clearer conscience if all the neighbors were forced to put money in a government pot and a government agency would send the widow a weekly sum of $40 to hire someone to mow her lawn. This mechanism makes the particular victim invisible, but it still boils down to one person being forcibly used to serve the purposes of another. Putting the money into a government pot makes palatable acts that would otherwise be deemed morally offensive.

This is why socialism is evil. It employs evil means, coercion or taking the property of one person, to accomplish good ends, helping one's fellow man. Helping one's fellow man in need, by reaching into one's own pockets, is a laudable and praiseworthy goal. Doing the same through coercion and reaching into another's pockets has no redeeming features and is worthy of condemnation.

Some people might contend that we are a democracy where the majority agrees to the forcible use of one person for the good of another. But does a majority consensus confer morality to an act that would otherwise be deemed as immoral? In other words, if a majority of the widow's neighbors voted to force one neighbor to mow her law, would that make it moral?

I don't believe any moral case can be made for the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another. But that conclusion is not nearly as important as the fact that so many of my fellow Americans give wide support to using people. I would like to think it is because they haven't considered that more than $2 trillion of the over $3 trillion federal budget represents Americans using one another. Of course, they might consider it compensatory justice. For example, one American might think, "Farmers get Congress to use me to serve the needs of some farmers. I'm going to get Congress to use someone else to serve my needs by subsidizing my child's college education."

The bottom line is that we've become a nation of thieves, a value rejected by our founders. James Madison, the father of our Constitution, was horrified when Congress appropriated $15,000 to help French refugees. He said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." Tragically, today's Americans would run Madison out of town on a rail.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81349

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Randall
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posted September 08, 2011 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Jwhop.

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I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be.

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jwhop
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posted September 25, 2011 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Distrusting The Common Man
by Herbert London
09/25/2011


Karl Marx, the 5th rate thinker from the 19th century

If there was one overarching goal of the Marxist project, it was refashioning human nature. Whether in religion or politics, the Marxists argued that an obsession with God and a belief in national identity had to be challenged and defeated.

His beliefs had little confidence in the common man. Marxists maintained they were endowed with an understanding others did not possess. While Marxism is dead, this distaste for the opinion of the common man persists.

Instead of Marxism, this belief now takes the form of "Expert Opinion," or the "Fraternity of Experts," who are eager to regulate human behavior. These are the new progressives, many of them former Marxists, and many who believe that American patriotism should be subordinated to transnational loyalty. Some call these people "Liberal Internationalists." who rely on U.N. prerogatives and other international bodies -- often under the sway of totalitarian governments with not the slightest interest in civil liberties or human rights for guidance.

On the home front, this "Fraternity of Experts" has answers for everything that ails us. If health care is a problem, the experts contend a government engineered system must be put in place, rather than rely on the the marketplace.

If global warming is a problem – a somewhat contentious point – government regulations should be imposed through a "limited carbon footprint" rather than through educating people to deliver restraint. The "Expert" always believes public choices are ignorant and therefore decisions [his) must be imposed.

Another example is the government-imposed minimum wage. Although exploitation and sweatshops are not an acceptable answer, is it not enough to argue that the market, which is primarily based on the combined needs of the producer, the worker and the consumer, is sufficient to determine wages? The experts know better; they actually think they can determine the point at which wages meet labor needs.

Of course the United States is not alone in producing members of the "Fraternity of Experts." If the French are expert at self-proclaimed experts, the European Union is the exemplar of Expert Opinion so confident in its assertions that it seeks to regulate everything from truck tonnage to the size of lawn mowers. Moreover, the EU intends to eliminate national loyalty through the imposition of a transnational entity which not only fails to represent the will of the people, but which fails to note how these "Experts" (read: bureaucrats) in Brussels might be removed should they fail to succeed in their work.

From the ashes of Marxism has emerged a class of elitists not unlike the former members of the Soviet Communist party. They claimed to know what was best for the citizens of Russia; the "Fraternity of Experts" knows what is best for us.

Former Democratic candidate for president John Edwards liked to lecture about two Americas: the privileged and the poor. But this quasi-Marxist theme does not describe the real two Americas: one, managed by "Experts," who believe they possess superior knowledge that translates into engineered regulations; and the other, common sense embodied by the common man.

How can elites demonstrate their "superior" wisdom if they are restrained? How can experts flaunt their expertise if their plans for us are rejected?

The very fact that the "Fraternity of Experts" distrusts the common man should be cause to distrust it. So when the new big idea emerges from the tombs of government, beware. The expert who wants to regulate you distrusts you and your ability to decide anything for yourself.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46415

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Randall
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posted September 26, 2011 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed!

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Randall
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posted September 26, 2011 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed!

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katatonic
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posted September 26, 2011 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2297676/conspiracy-Gary-Allen-None-Dare-Call-it-Conspiracy-english-rarereactor

this little book (98 smallish pages) was written in 72. it is where david icke jumped off from, as far as i can tell. no aliens, reptilian or otherwise are needed.

a lot of what jwhop calls socialism is explained within. also explained is why socialism is NOT the crux of the matter, and why both parties are party to the progress of the global agenda...including using a perverted form of what people reasonably understand socialism to be.

who do you think bankrolled marx while he wrote his blueprint?

how boom and bust cycles make the bankers rich and powerful, wars ditto, why religions are pitted against each other and who profits from the existence of israel (hint: NOT the jews)

and if you think it is incompetence or LACK of planning (or socialism) that put us where we are today, might give you reason to think again.

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BearsArcher
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posted October 01, 2011 03:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BearsArcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop.. you are AWESOME!!!

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Randall
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posted October 01, 2011 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed!

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"Fall down 100 times, get up 101...this is success." --ME

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted October 01, 2011 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Love Walter

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Do You Think This Psychic Is Cute?


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Randall
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posted October 02, 2011 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, Walter rocks.

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"Fall down 100 times, get up 101...this is success." --ME

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katatonic
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posted October 03, 2011 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
here's a nice quote from ronald reagan, class warrior:

When President Obama released his plan for “the Buffett rule,” which involves closing tax loopholes and ensuring that millionaires pay their fair share in taxes, he explained that “middle-class families shouldn’t be paying higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires.” “Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett,” he said.

Ever since, many Republicans have been attacking Obama for inciting “class warfare.” “It looks like the President wants to move down the class warfare path,” said House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI). “I don’t think I would describe class warfare as leadership,” agreed Speaker of the House John Boehner (R-OH).

However, if calling for an end to millionaires having lower tax rates than their secretaries is class warfare, Obama is only the latest class warrior to occupy the Oval Office. In a June 6, 1985 speech at Northside High School in Atlanta, Georgia, then President Ronald Reagan explained that tax loopholes allowing a millionaire to pay lower taxes that a bus driver were “crazy,” because they allowed the “truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share”:

We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy. [...] Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/03/333912/reagan-tax-loopholes-crazy/

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Randall
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posted October 03, 2011 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bus drivers have no write-offs while business owners and passive investors do. There's no disparity there.

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katatonic
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posted October 03, 2011 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what are you saying randall? that reagan was wrong? or that a ceo takes home the same pay as a busdriver?

DEDUCTIONS come BEFORE takehome...they are supposed to be MONEY SPENT earning that takehome. what is left AFTER deductions is what we are taxed on, busdriver or ceo. are you telling me the CEO spends his entire income on business expenses and takes home less than the busdriver?

or perhaps you are saying that the CEO claims ALL his meals, meds, housing costs, travel and clothing entertainment etc? i know a few like that! but i don't call it kosher or even honest.

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jwhop
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posted October 04, 2011 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
People who earn $200K per year ARE NOT millionaires and billionaires.

More Marxist math from O'Bomber and the credibility challenged Buffett...who avoids every penny of taxes possible; mainly by taking his income in the form of Capital Gains...instead of paying himself a salary and paying taxes on his income as "Ordinary Income".

Of course, Buffett and his merry little band of billionairs who are in favor of economic insanity could contribute more of their money to government...instead of handing their money off to...for instance...The Gates Foundation in order to create an even bigger TAX DEDUCTION.

I'm sure Treasury Direct at Pay.gov would be more than happy to relieve Buffett and his billionaire buddies of lots of their excess wealth.

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

One must wonder why Buffett and his billionaire buds don't take advantage of the opportunity to contribute to reducing the US government debt...instead of seeking ways to further decrease their own tax liability?

Oh wait. I already know. The answer to that question is..... utter hypocrisy!

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Randall
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posted October 04, 2011 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the tax code allows it, it's honest. That's what honesty is--taking the allowable deductions. Cheating is the antithesis of that. And if Reagen said that it was probably taken out of context. If not, he was just misinformed.

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"Fall down 100 times, get up 101...this is success." --ME

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katatonic
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posted October 04, 2011 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you are aware of reagan's tax hikes and insistence on "CLOSING LOOPHOLES" are you not?

do you think a bus driver doesn't have expenses? in my line of work i can deduct my mileage IF i have a home office. if not, the gas i spend going to work is not considered an "expense". ...does that make sense to you?

i am STILL amazed that you don't seem to appreciate how much the reagan mandate that everyone be treated, making NO provision for payment to docs, hospitals and suppliers, has affected the cost of medical care in general and insurance too. yet you will defend it to the end, for some reason. i think it is a great, humanitarian thing too, but i wonder why a small percentage of your income in taxes is a more abhorrent way to pay than the price of getting medical care going through the roof?

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Randall
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posted October 04, 2011 09:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, it does make sense to me. Having a business is not a loophole, and working a job does not entitle one to write off so-called expenses.

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katatonic
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posted October 05, 2011 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so if you are a CEO for a big company, which makes you an EMPLOYEE, you think it is fine to claim every penny you spend as a biz expense? in my business, i have to bring my profit down to next to nothing before i escape taxes. why should someone be able to walk with 400K over and above and not pay taxes?

when i put my own income up as an example, in a year when i made 22K on a W2, jwhop said my accountant was incompetent if i paid ANY taxes. however, i did pay taxes that year...

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Randall
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posted October 05, 2011 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's perfectly legal and encouraged.

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katatonic
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posted October 05, 2011 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so you agree that a millionaire should pay LESS tax than a bus driver. interesting. do you think the millionaire doesn't use the roads the REST of us pay for? the stores whose builders paid taxes on their income? the police the REST of us pay taxes for?

and if so, why not? because it is allowed? do you think ALL laws are fine and dandy? i don't hear you using that as a good reason to buy into insurance for everyone. you think healthcare should be free and doctors go unpaid just because it is law?

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katatonic
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posted October 05, 2011 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@ jwhop i don't believe the 250K people are being targetted presently? they are talking much higher income brackets now.

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katatonic
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posted October 05, 2011 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Billionaire Bet: Warren Buffett Challenges Rupert Murdoch To Release His Tax Returns | Last week, News Corp’s Wall Street Journal editorial board told the billionaire behind the president’s “Buffett Rule” that, instead of calling for America’s wealthy to pay their fair share in taxes, Warren Buffett should “educate the public” by allowing “everyone else in on his secrets of tax avoidance by releasing his tax returns.” Today at Fortune’s Most Powerful Women Summit, Buffett wholeheartedly agreed to release his tax returns to the public. He just has one condition: “I think it might be a terrific idea if [the Wall Street Journal] would just ask their boss, Rupert Murdoch, and he and I will meet at Fortune, and we’ll both give you our tax returns and you can publish them.” Buffett noted, “I’m ready tomorrow morning.” Murdoch has yet to respond

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