posted February 03, 2013 10:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Anyone see Obama's gun photo shoot (pun intended)?

What a fake pretentious individual!

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Yes, I saw a FB picture where he was shooting with a giant scissors

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posted February 03, 2013 10:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, I saw a FB picture where he was shooting with a giant scissors

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Ami Anne, what do you shoot skeet with?

Agreed is is a lame photo op & he looks as out of place a a pig at Tiffanys.

posted February 03, 2013 08:02 PM            

Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.

—By Dave Gilson
Thu Jan. 31, 2013 3:01 AM PST

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By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.

Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.

Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey

Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higher than those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements.

Myth #3: An armed society is a polite society.
Fact-check: Drivers who carry guns are 44% more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77% more likely to follow them aggressively.
• Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.
• In states with Stand Your Ground and other laws making it easier to shoot in self-defense, those policies have been linked to a 7 to 10% increase in homicides.

Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
• 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

Myth #8: "Vicious, violent video games" deserve more blame than guns.
Fact-check: So said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre after Newtown. So what's up with Japan?

United States/Japan

Per capita spending
on video games

$44/$55

Civilian firearms
per 100 people

88/0.6

Gun homicides
in 2008

11,030/ 11

Myth #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.
Fact-check: More guns are being sold, but they're owned by a shrinking portion of the population.
• About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun.
• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each.

Myth #10: We don't need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Fact-check: Weak laws and loopholes backed by the gun lobby make it easier to get guns illegally.
• Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
• An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
• 20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has not had a permanent director for 6 years, due to an NRA-backed requirement that the Senate approve nominees.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

posted February 03, 2013 09:43 PM            

Good gods, that's so messed up I don't even know if I have the patience to deconstruct it or not. I can't even decide which to start with first, the "facts" it gets wrong (and I suspect some were invented with no basis in reality), the tunnel vision (like looking at Japan, but not Switzerland which banned violent video games but has military rifles common, not that I blame video games), or the really bad logic.

Ah well, just goes to show that people on both sides of the debate can be really embarrassing, and I've noticed many years ago that both Mother Jones and National Review allow people to post in their magazine that discredit them with absurdity (though both have good authors as well).

posted February 04, 2013 10:38 AM            

Wyoming yeah...so many murders there. A full 18 murders in 2011.

Massachusetts had 185 murders in 2011, and thousands of other crimes where I'll just bet a gun was involved: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/macrime.htm

Even if they are talking about more murders per capita in WY, 18 murders in a state where 70% of the people have guns is hardly indicative that a gun ban is in order.

In 2010, there were only 8 murders in WY, 214 in MA.

posted February 04, 2013 01:11 PM            

more wolves are shot in wyoming than massachussetts. i wonder why that would be given the similarity in gun ownership?

posted February 04, 2013 07:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by watermonkey:
Very interesting thread, in my country even possessing a pepper spray will get you charged, a gun will get you a 10 years jailterm. Personally being born and raised in a country with a strict gun policy, i think if the government is able to regulate the security by imposing gun controls isnt it a good thing?? I mean dont you feel safer walking on the streets this way banishing the thought of any crazy lunatic with a gun being a threat to your safety?

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Wish I could find it again, but one Brit shared on the BBC how he felt safer in New York City than in some place like Liverpool, and he hadn't expected that, he expected wild shoot outs to be the norm.

And he wasn't even raised with guns. As for me I was raised with guns in easy reach, every time I cleaned my granny's room I saw at least 2 handguns and 2 long guns (though I knew not to touch them). Guns were everywhere and so I didn't learn to fear them. I suppose it must be the same for like those who were raised in the Outback of Australia who shrug off the critters there as they know a little common sense will keep tragedies to a minimum. Heck, a few months ago I met a guy at Disneyland from the Arctic Circle (grew up there) and he was having a very hard time with the crowds, said he came down just to try winter outside his home (where he'd be snowed in for months) but was never, ever going to do that again, the arctic was dangerous but familiar and he could accept it, but the crowds in California was something he couldn't handle. There's no way I'd want to live in the Arctic, however, in part because I wasn't raised there and the thought of being trapped there through a winter scares me (and without help from someone who knew what they were doing I'd probably die from it).

And there are other things at work besides law, such as culture, and laws are man made, not physics. That is banning guns to civilians doesn't mean that civilians can't have guns, anymore than the laws and BILLIONS of dollars worth of anti-drug law enforcement doesn't stop cocaine, heroin, and meth being easy to get (and kids say it's easier to get pot than alcohol), heck I got offered crystal meth in a Bible Belt town so small that many maps don't even list it (and it's a dry county meaning even alcohol wasn't sold there, though that's also easy to get illegally). Basically strict gun control tends to cause violence, including gun violence, to skyrocket because the criminals have guns and are a lot less scared of their victims having anything to stop them with, and what's even worse is if legal guns are prohibited enough then the black market will instead be flooded with military issue guns & ammo making them even more deadly.

posted February 04, 2013 08:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
it is ironic to see Faith arguing for the sake of an easy access to guns. this is where an argumentative mind will bring you.

of course, your reasons are good ... yada yada

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I never said one thing about easy access to guns.

But it's typical for you to make stuff up.

posted February 04, 2013 08:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I never said one thing about easy access to guns.

But it's typical for you to make stuff up.

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Ha ha ha ha

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