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Author Topic:   Democrats Stand In The Way Of Obama's Gun Measures
Randall
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posted January 26, 2013 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-may-stand-obamas-way-gun-measures-134432125--politics.html

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aquaguy91
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posted January 26, 2013 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm a southerner and i have guns and enjoy them as much as the next person but i still dont understand why people are soo opposed to these very modest restrictions... i mean who in the heck needs an assault rifle anyway..

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Randall
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posted January 26, 2013 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's a progressive plot. You gradually chip away at rights. Obama would make all private ownership of guns illegal in one fell swoop if he could.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 26, 2013 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i seriously doubt it, i personally think banning assault rifles is a good idea, at the very least people should have to go through classes and get a special permit to have them. i dont think its safe for average people to be able to buy them at gun shows, not a good idea.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 26, 2013 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
It's a progressive plot. You gradually chip away at rights. Obama would make all private ownership of guns illegal in one fell swoop if he could.

Yes, frog in the boiling water. You don't make boiled frog, all at once. The dumb frog would jump out

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Stawr
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posted January 27, 2013 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't trust any of Obama's intentions.(I tried being a democrat/liberal in 08. I really tried, but can't do it.)

And that would just disarm the people who own them legally.

I've gone shooting with my dad at the gun range. Want to own a gun myself. Had to wait for my tax return money to finally come, before buying one. And a week after that the school shooting happened. Now some people want every legal gun owner to be punished for it. Really p!ssing me off.

When I finally get one I don't plan on getting the biggest baddest gun. But just because the biggest baddest guns don't apply to me, mean I think other people's rights should be taken away.

Tyranny and street thugs, that's why. Even if you think the people running the country have the best intentions right now...it could be possible for someone to weasel his/her way into office years down the road strip away our rights. And behave like a dictator.

The people can stand up for their rights peacefully at fist with petitions, protests, phone calls to their representatives.

But if that doesn't work...and if our government becomes corrupt and starts harming honest people. Then people can use their guns to fight off a big bad government.

I know that may sound radical. But better safe than sorry.

I believe that our founding fathers knew that in the future the power would go to some peoples heads. And that is the peoples last resort for putting a corrupt government in check.

I'm all for the gun classes though. Owning a gun is a HUGE responsibility. I look forward to taking classes on how to use mine, though my dad is a good gun educator.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 27, 2013 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
they just want to outlaw "assault rifles", i dont see whats soo hard to understand about that... if the bill passes there will still be tons of different guns that are legal. you can use pistols for self defense or even a 22 rifle, assault rifles are not a defensive weapon they are an offensive weapon, they are specifically designed to kill lots of ppl..... you dont need an ak47,m16,or a tommy gun to go hunting or for self defense.... also i want to know how many people actually have an assault rifle to begin with, i'd wager not many, so whats the big deal....

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PixieJane
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posted January 27, 2013 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm fairly neutral on assault rifles. I don't care if they get banned, but at the same time I see banning them as treating a symptom instead of the disease itself. I'd favor making it much harder to get & keep assault rifles without actual prohibition myself to keep it to the serious collectors only with many checks in place to help prevent tragedy, but I think any difference it would make (for good or bad) would be marginal. Going after the guns is missing the point. And the Swiss don't have our frequent mall & school shootings, so it's not the guns being present that are the problem.

If I had serious money to burn I'd buy an AR-15 one day, strictly for sentimental reasons. But I'd get many other guns first, including those present in the Old West (I've always been meaning to start going to Cowboy Action Shoots, and I'd LOVE to have at least one authentic gun of the period in mint condition, which would cost a pretty penny), and if it becomes illegal to get an AR-15 in the meantime I'm not going to shed any tears over it, nor would I go to the black market for one (though I'm confident I could if I wanted to).

But I understand the fears. All too often, countries that went after assault rifles went after all other guns next, that is it inspires a slippery slope even though it shouldn't (and as a result gun owners tend to "hang together so we don't hang a part"). That makes me glad there's such resistance to it, if they do get banned but the banners feel utterly exhausted as if they took away a bunch of people's teeth instead of assault rifles then they're a lot less likely to take it even further.

And for more on why people fear it:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/innocents-betrayed/

If it helps I think the actual documentary is more like 40-45 minutes, the rest is an interview in how & why the documentary was made.

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mercuranian
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posted January 27, 2013 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercuranian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
It's a progressive plot. You gradually chip away at rights. Obama would make all private ownership of guns illegal in one fell swoop if he could.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 27, 2013 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
they just want to outlaw "assault rifles", i dont see whats soo hard to understand about that... if the bill passes there will still be tons of different guns that are legal. you can use pistols for self defense or even a 22 rifle, assault rifles are not a defensive weapon they are an offensive weapon, they are specifically designed to kill lots of ppl..... you dont need an ak47,m16,or a tommy gun to go hunting or for self defense.... also i want to know how many people actually have an assault rifle to begin with, i'd wager not many, so whats the big deal....

one step at a time. Obama et al wants a disarmed populace. I am glad to see what a hard time he is having in doing it. Some small satisfaction

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mercuranian
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posted January 27, 2013 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercuranian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this method of gradually stripping us of our rights didn't start with obama not in any way defending him, just sayin'.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 28, 2013 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
one step at a time. Obama et al wants a disarmed populace. I am glad to see what a hard time he is having in doing it. Some small satisfaction


ok , at this point those are just rumors.... if (and thats a big if) he ever does try to outlaw guns alltogether then we need to complain and raise cane, but that hasnt happened, so theres no use stirring up fear and negativity over something that probably wont happen.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 28, 2013 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mercuranian:
this method of gradually stripping us of our rights didn't start with obama not in any way defending him, just sayin'.

i agree 100% ...its as if people forget the previous 8 years before obama took office... less then two months after obama took office people were already blaming the country's economic problems on him... i personally think most of the hatred directed at him is cloaked racism.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 28, 2013 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
ok , at this point those are just rumors.... if (and thats a big if) he ever does try to outlaw guns alltogether then we need to complain and raise cane, but that hasnt happened, so theres no use stirring up fear and negativity over something that probably wont happen.

Aquaguy
This is how they take our freedoms. Now, they have limited bullets. That is a big power grab. They want NO guns, Sweetie.

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Faith
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posted January 28, 2013 07:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I see banning them as treating a symptom instead of the disease itself.

I guess the ultimate question is, what's the point in banning them? Does the government really want to protect schoolchildren or is that just an excuse to gradually disarm the people and dismember the Constitution even more? And once the people are disarmed, police state oppression and violence usually begin in earnest. So when the politicians say they are trying to protect the children, that of course is propaganda.

If they really cared, they would openly hold Big Pharma accountable for its role in screwing up the minds of so many of these school shooters.

They would look at the whole education system to see why it is so emotionally unhealthy for so many children.

quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
All too often, countries that went after assault rifles went after all other guns next... That makes me glad there's such resistance to it...

Yes...me, too.

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Faith
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posted January 28, 2013 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i personally think most of the hatred directed at him is cloaked racism.

Maybe some of the hatred is cloaked racism, but the legitimate criticism is not.

If you are insinuating that most of Obama's critics are racists, that's another kind of bigotry in itself.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted January 28, 2013 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
None of the weapons I would buy, if I were to buy weapons, are allowed, except for the Benelli M4 Super 90.

Why should I have to be limited to someone else's choice of gun?

The ones I want include the H&K MP7 PDW, the MP5/10, the IMI Uzi, the FN Herstal P90, the ST Kinetics SAR-21, the IMI Tavor TAR-21, the Colt M4 and the H&K G36.

It's like the government telling me that I can only drive Chevy or Ford. Those are the only choices.

Sure got the local police department all worried when I enquired about the legalities

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Stawr
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posted January 28, 2013 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mercuranian:
this method of gradually stripping us of our rights didn't start with obama not in any way defending him, just sayin'.

that is true

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aquaguy91
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posted January 28, 2013 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
all i'm saying is we dont have any proof that obama wants to take away all guns, thats just an assumption... assault weapons were outlawed from 1994-2004, did we lose all our freedoms during that time? no... were all guns eventually outlawed? no.... so why are things any different now?

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Faith
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posted January 28, 2013 10:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
all i'm saying is we dont have any proof that obama wants to take away all guns, thats just an assumption... assault weapons were outlawed from 1994-2004, did we lose all our freedoms during that time? no... were all guns eventually outlawed? no.... so why are things any different now?

We lost a lot of freedoms with the passing of the Patriot Act and all the post-911 reforms (TSA, DHS, expansion of power via Executive Order, etc.)

But I agree, to say Obama will take all the guns is an assumption.

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PixieJane
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posted January 28, 2013 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
We lost a lot of freedoms with the passing of the Patriot Act and all the post-911 reforms (TSA, DHS, expansion of power via Executive Order, etc.)

Technically speaking, most conservatives supported that. When I spoke out against that at a gun range the conservatives called me a terrorist-loving socialist. I've seen a conservative country singer on TV tell a cheering crowd that he supported the TSA as he was patriotic. It was only after Obama got elected that they had second thoughts, and even then they often accuse him of being soft on terrorists and acting like he's going to carry out his false promise of getting rid of those infringements on liberty.

IOW, the AWB had nothing to do with it, and had enough Americans (at least of the liberal kind) protested it a lot harder and Homeland Security under Bush decided to deputize NRA members to put the protestors down I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the majority of the NRA would've been happy to use their civilian guns to enforce the post-911 reforms.

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Faith
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posted January 29, 2013 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Yes, I agree. I was just answering aquaguy's question about whether or not we lost a lot of freedoms.

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Randall
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posted January 29, 2013 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obama won't take our guns. I said he wish he could. That commie-loving Socialist thinks he is King in his own deluded mind (like the Saudi King he bowed to), but in reality, America is still a republic. Silly President, Kings are for monarchies.

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katatonic
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posted January 29, 2013 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
it's so nice to have a personal acquaintance of obama's innermost mind here to clue us in on what he thinks.

i can think of all kinds of reasons for wanting to regulate guns, and a lot of americans are calling for just such a remedy. are they also deluded that they are kings? i doubt it.

how many valiant citizens were at that special ops exercise in houston defending their homeground yesterday? what would have happened if they had tried?

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PixieJane
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posted January 30, 2013 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
how many valiant citizens were at that special ops exercise in houston defending their homeground yesterday? what would have happened if they had tried?

Let's see, real bullets vs. those in body armor but probably using blanks, the unit would likely hole up and call for the cavalry while some Texans kept them cornered and waited for the police to show up. Something similar to that actually happened about a century ago (with cops & soldiers shooting each other), which was exciting to say the least though the city has tried very hard to forget that scandal. But in this case I think many emergency phone calls would be made and the sitch quickly resolved peacefully if with a lot of tension (not counting the initial confrontation of course).

And being Texas the entire state (generally speaking) would become excited, especially the rural regions, who liked the idea of secession even before Obama. The paper that my hometown gets has even been pushing for secession since Obama won the reelection. Of course the Texan politicians would love to grandstand on it. Obama would call for cooler heads to prevail while the incident was investigated thoroughly to see what went wrong and the media would have a field day and pretty soon it would be a federal circus with several other states (especially in the South, but also states like Arizona & Idaho) making noises in support of Texas with a real media circus (including agitated pundits) going on.

After that it would blow over once the media got bored with it, OR some hotheads would try to escalate the sitch which could become a major chapter in American history or, more likely, be disavowed by most others who want to beat their chests but not actually lose their jobs and otherwise face real risks (I think they're called sunshine patriots), because what we all pretty much know deep down is it's not what's happening that's bothering people, it's that Obama's in the White House (and if it were a Republican who was almost the same as Obama then many who support Obama would condemn the Republican while many who condemn Obama would support the Republican, because it's not what you do that matters with most people, but which political party you belong to when you do it, and Obama is even more hated than Clinton was by the more extreme conservatives), and a little patience is all that's needed for that sitch to correct itself.

A complicating factor would be if any soldiers were killed by Texans and the "minute men" were tried in a federal court (a Texas jury would almost certainly clear them of any wrong doing). That would aggravate the sitch. But with the body armor of soldiers who would still be intimidating even with blanks it's entirely possible they wouldn't have any serious casualties (please don't mistake the movies of dramatic, larger than life battles leaving a wake of bodies for real life). And if the soldiers switched to live ammo and killed the "minute men" then I doubt much would come of it (though it would reboot the militia movement) as our government has gotten away with that crap for a long time now.

But in any case I'm pretty sure that there would be an overhaul of how these military exercises were handled in the future.

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