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Author
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Topic: the right to deny treatment by any means available
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katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 12:14 PM
  
The NHS is as great as Magna Carta
I am a very old man so I have strong memories of Britain before the NHS. I remember my sister dying of TB in a workhouse infirmary and me almost succumbing to whopping cough b/c we couldn't afford a doctor.
As a small boy, I remember hearing screams coming from a home on our street where a woman was dying of cancer without any medicine to relieve her pain. It was a barbaric world where money decided who lived and who died because that was the formula for medical care.
In fact it wasn't until I was 18 that I saw a physician and that was because World War Two was on and I had volunteered to join the RAF. The people of my generation sacrificed so much during the Great Depression and through the World War. The NHS was our reward, our peace time dividend. It was also our solemn pledge to future generations that we would be a civilized nation that would treat all citizens as worthy of care and compassion.
The NHS is for me as great as Magna Carta because it freed millions from the tyranny of sickness and poverty to move forward and lead productive lives. No one can fool me about these new measures. They are not about making the NHS more efficient, more accessible and more accountable to today's economic situation; its all about profit. Now a small minority of people and corporations are going to get very rich while making Britain a less healthy and vibrant nation. The names of all that voted for these provisions should be cut into a memorial stone to commemorate the death of Britain's greatest achievement the NHS. It was a tide that raised all boats
[URL=http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/4095798-the-nhs-is-as-great-as-magna-carta]http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/4095798-the-nhs-is-as-great-as-magna-carta[/UR L] as britain continues to sell off the NHS to private profiteers and americans quake in their boots at the idea of "socialized medicine!" a little perspective from someone who remembers england without the NHS and with it. i am so glad for south carolina that they appear to be denying the govt's desire to ensure health for everyone not just those who earn enough. it seems perposterous to me that some can't understand that a poor person with TB is a threat to them as well as other poor people. IP: Logged |
shura
Knowflake Posts: 566
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 02:08 PM
Thank you for this, Kat. It's a story worth considering, and I know there are many more like it. The choice between government or corporate controlled heathcare has always been a Scylla and Charybdis like scenario for me. I can't say I have a settled opinion on the matter.IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 03:01 PM
the nhs was doing fine until thatcher started unravelling it. then followed private insurance at a nice low cost to encourage what they call "queue jumping" and leaving the poorest to wait for treatment...last week parliament basically voted to sell off what's left to the highest bidders and to his shame my friend richard branson has bought a huge chunk of devon's healthcare system. he'd better do something VERY good with it...what with his "dedication to green" living his space ambitions are already desecrating his good rep."socialized medicine" doesn't have to be like the soviet style version. many countries have managed to incorporate free healthcare for all into their systems without destroying themselves, quite the opposite. but americans are allergic to mandates AND taxes and the suggestion that they give up anything for the common good seems to be anathema to at least half of us. the gains to everyone of a healthy population are legion. i agree that the way congress is going about it looks a mess. time for them to FIX it instead of continuing to try to ignore it. IMO of course! IP: Logged |
shura
Knowflake Posts: 566
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 05:17 PM
Yes, I recall reading about the queue jumping. Typical. Maybe expected in a traditionally class oriented society like the UK? Makes me wonder how insufferable those queues were though. What was your experience?A feeling of brotherhood is hard to come by here the States, that's true. We are a nation of merchants, founded by merchants, controlled by merchants. Each man for himself, law of the jungle, alpha dog wins blah blah. The positive side of this was we were stubbornly independent minded. were. Increasingly we are displaying the worst characteristics of both the independent man and the collective mind set. It's ugly. But it's our fate. I can't defend corporate controlled heathcare. Problem is, I can't defend government controlled heathcare either. I trust neither. A strong-arm state concerns me. You? Last week I read a glorious account of the universal heathcare system of Sweden. (We're hearing quite a lot about this lately, aren't we? Makes me wonder who's picking up the pr tab.) I then read a nightmarish account of a Swedish child taken from his parents by government authorities for the horrendous crime of homeschooling. Homeschooling is illegal in Sweden. The government will gladly educate your child for free and they will do it infinitely better than you are able. In fact, they insist on it. Maternity leave is a year long in Sweden for moms, dads receive four months, I believe. God bless! But you are expected to send your baby to government run daycare within that year. The state will raise him. The state knows best. See where I'm headed? Nothing is free. This concerns childcare, not heathcare but I think it brings up interesting issues about state sponsered societies. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21784716 IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 07:42 PM
I think sweden is overrated myself. The english system was fabulous but it's been in decline for over 30 years now. I found that some docs and dentists were better @ working the system than others, mostly thru the human connections of networking...as is true here too.Speaking of which a sutter hospital here in cali recently called CPS when the parents of a baby patient took their child to kaiser because thry were unhappy withsutter's treatment...and CPS took tjis sick child away from the parents. Now while some may think cali is a "gulag" these people were on private insurance and sutter is a private hospital. So what is the difference between here snd sweden? Any bureaucracy (including corlorate hospitals and insurance cos) makes these nightmare errors a percentage of the time. We only hear the newsworthy(= nasty) bits for the most part! IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 2289
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 07:47 PM
Good read katRE: South Carolina The ones who need it most [ Health Care Reform ] are also the most resistant, or at least their legislators are. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 07:49 PM
Sorry bout the typos...I am not really happy with either road myself, i would be glad to see mandate like reagan's applied to all healthcare, maybe making it each state's responsibility to work out details to a national standard...and how to pay for it too... But there's a reason i'm not a politician..the world's most complex and at the same time tedious job. I understand vermont is going single payer...looking forward to seeing how that works. Does oregon already have a facsimile? IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 07:51 PM
It's too expensive to guarantee healthcare but not to shoot up the world ikrIP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 29, 2013 07:58 PM
The best docs (american) i have known were anti-insurance racket...a good friend's mom and a neighbour of mine was a plastic surgeon who sewed up half our community at one time or another in her kitchen, usually for free...and she wasn't the only one who acted that way. I believe ron paul treated those who couldn't pay gratis too.In england my dentist got great tech service by developing relationships with the lab techs...and at a price most of his colleagues weren't creative enough to deliver IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 6583
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 10:01 AM
quote:
The best docs (american) i have known were anti-insurance racket...a good friend's mom and a neighbour of mine was a plastic surgeon who sewed up half our community at one time or another in her kitchen, usually for free...and she wasn't the only one who acted that way.
Same here kat. The country Docs I know are in it for the people not $$. I even had one sew up my pup when the vet wasn`t available , in return...for some mulberry jam.... ------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 11:11 AM
yes juni the woman i mentioned above put my HORSE back together when the vet said she was too injured to mend, sinew stripped to the bone from a freak accident...again, for nothing but the "practice" doing something she hadn't done before, and the love of horses.and this woman was v wealthy from her hospital and private practices, in the days before cosmetic surgery was commonplace. she also invented the waterbed (for burn patients) .. no country doc, though we were rural we were 20 miles from nyc and she was a very busy lady. not saying country docs are in any way less talented or sophisticated! she said, and publicly, in newsprint etc, that the insurance racket was killing medicine because doctors dare not take chances that might save lives due to litigation happy insurance cos, and that the price of healing was rocketting up due to the insurance costs and profits added onto the actual care. IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 2289
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 07:03 PM
I love reading stories like that you two.Very restorative: here is a pic I found restorative today:  IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 6583
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 07:25 PM
Awesome Node!! Oddly enough or not...this a.m. I took my young over energized Lab to the vet for heartworm blood test. He tried to bound out the door on the leash and dragged my entire hand and arm down the door jam . To keep on schedule and on time while bleeding freely, off to the vet we went where he offered to treat my hand for nothing but the pups office call. (I chose home bandaging and of course ended up behind schedule) Kudos to your Dr kat  I believe there are more good people than bad. More good Drs than greedy. ------------------
We need to listen to our own song, and share it with others, but not force it on them. Our songs are different. They should be in harmony with each other. ~ Mattie Stepanek IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 2289
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 07:28 PM
Ouch, Honey!and another affirmation. Thanks! IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 07:47 PM
Yes i agree juni ... such has been my experience though i have met some doozies in my time! In england there's a derogatory name for people who watch only their own backs..."jobsworth" as in "more than my job's worth"... it implies that there is more to life for most of us.heal soon. Nice satchmo, node! What a wonderful world. .. IP: Logged |
shura
Knowflake Posts: 566
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted April 30, 2013 08:34 PM
I wish I could say I've encountered a like minded doc, but I haven't. Node, that pic is FANTASTIC.  IP: Logged |
Node
Knowflake Posts: 2289
From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2013 12:10 PM
 made famous by Louis Songwriters: GEORGE DAVID WEISS, GEORGE DOUGLAS, BOB THIELE I see trees of green........ red roses too
I see em bloom..... for me and for you
And I think to myself.... what a wonderful world. I see skies of blue..... clouds of white
Bright blessed days....dark sacred nights
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world. The colors of a rainbow.....so pretty ..in the sky
Are also on the faces.....of people ..going by
I see friends shaking hands.....sayin.. how do you do
They're really sayin......i love you. I hear babies cry...... I watch them grow
They'll learn much more.....than I'll never know
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world (instrumental break) The colors of a rainbow.....so pretty ..in the sky
Are there on the faces.....of people ..going by
I see friends shaking hands.....sayin.. how do you do
They're really sayin...*spoken*(I ....love....you). I hear babies cry...... I watch them grow
*spoken*(you know their gonna learn
A whole lot more than I'll never know)
And I think to myself .....what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself .......what a wonderful world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGKqH26xlg w/ spoken intro IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 10140
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2013 12:41 PM
Interestingly i don't think i ever heard satchmo brag about how he "did it all himself" tho he succeeded well before civil rights were espoused, unlike many modern beneficiaries of affirmative action. He dealt with a world that did not include him by including himself. He led by example not precept...IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7307
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 01, 2013 12:59 PM
IP: Logged |
shura
Knowflake Posts: 566
From:
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted May 01, 2013 01:12 PM
He dealt with a world that did not include him by including himselfThat's beautiful, kat. IP: Logged |
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