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Author Topic:   Help page for Climate Change deniers
Astro keen
Knowflake

Posts: 5077
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 24, 2016 05:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rule 1 - read more widely.

Here's something which may help climate change deniers think again:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/ 15/rate-of-environmental-degradation-puts-life-on-earth-at-risk-say-scientists

http://www.unep.org/newscentre/Default.aspx?DocumentID=27074&ArticleID=36180&l=en


Any contributions would be welcome.

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Randall
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From: Saturn next to Charmaine
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posted May 25, 2016 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The climate has always been changing. But man has nothing to do with it.

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athenegoddess
unregistered
posted May 26, 2016 04:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ Agree.. it will change with or without our help.

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lightbones
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Registered: Dec 2014

posted May 26, 2016 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lightbones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro keen:
Rule 1 - read more widely.

Here's something which may help climate change deniers think again:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/ 15/rate-of-environmental-degradation-puts-life-on-earth-at-risk-say-scientists

http://www.unep.org/newscentre/Default.aspx?DocumentID=27074&ArticleID=36180&l=en


Any contributions to help inform our brethren would be welcome.



Honestly, I don't think there is anything anyone can say to change the minds of those who still don't believe it.

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Randall
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posted May 27, 2016 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Real scientists would never use the term "consenus." That's a political term, which is what climate change is really about.

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pire
Knowflake

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From: France
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2016 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As long as everyone agrees that taking care of shared ressources and EARTH is the ultimate necessity... Everyting is fine

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Astro keen
Knowflake

Posts: 5077
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 30, 2016 07:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall,

I think you're doing this on purpose - it's a strategy to keep people joining the discussion.

How can anyone in their right minds deny the human role in environmental degradation ?!!

Here's a video that you should watch (just see the first 3 minutes) - hear this academic. I love how he says that if people are not depressed knowing of conditions on the earth, then they need a therapist!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523bXlK5t34

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Randall
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posted May 30, 2016 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not saying humans can't harm the planet--such as polluting the oceans. I'm saying humans play no role in the weather or climate change or the warming of the Earth. The Sun is the biggest driver of climate, and water vapor is the main greenhouse gas, but the powers that be can't control water and tax it, so they chose CO2 instead (which is a miniscule percentage of total greenhouse gasses).

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Randall
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posted May 30, 2016 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And the CO2 levels have been way higher in the past, long before man, and the Earth did just fine. The Earth is thriving. High CO2 levels equal a green and lush planet. What is there to be depressed about? Would you rather the planet be cooling? I can assure you the cold will harm us much worse than 1/7th of a degree in rising temps.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

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From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted May 31, 2016 08:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
C02 levels is just one of the problems.

The fact that damage to the natural environment is increasing globally has been highlighted in recent reports. Of nine core processes that enable life on Earth, as shown in the diagram below, four have exceeded “safe” levels. These are human-driven climate change, land use change (loss of rain forests and grasslands), loss of biodiversity and biochemical flows, i.e., high levels of nitrogen and phosphorus flowing into the oceans due to fertiliser use. The changes were not showing any evidence of slowing down.


The costs of the use of the environment not only affect other species and future generations but unjustly affect people living today. Energy and materials used to fuel growth are usually extracted in increasing quantities from developing countries, which suffer the impacts of extraction, such as the plight of the Ogoni people in the Niger Delta. Pollutants and waste end up in indigenous or marginalised communities or in developing countries. It is the poorest who are most vulnerable. Everywhere.

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Randall
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posted May 31, 2016 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You lost me at human-driven climate change.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

Posts: 5077
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted June 01, 2016 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lightbones:

Honestly, I don't think there is anything anyone can say to change the minds of those who still don't believe it.

Yes, It's looking that way.

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 15
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted June 02, 2016 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cognitive dissonance is a hellava thing.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

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From: UK
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posted June 02, 2016 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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lightbones
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posted June 02, 2016 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lightbones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Harpyr:
Cognitive dissonance is a hellava thing.

Omg! I was just going to say the same thing!

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Randall
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posted June 02, 2016 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's more like people repeating the mantras given them. The models have all failed. Why would anyone listen to a word they say after being caught cheating by making up data?

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Astro keen
Knowflake

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From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted June 02, 2016 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall, did you watch or look up any of the links I posted here? There are thousands of scientists offering evidence. All cheaters?

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Delilah423
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posted June 02, 2016 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's assume for a moment that the vast majority of scientists are wrong and/or purely politically motivated.

What is the harm in developing and promoting environmentally friendly technologies anyway? Reducing pollution? Saving as much of the land/forest as possible?

If man has free will, why shouldn't he use that free will to protect and preserve the earth as best he can, whether man-caused climate change exists or not?

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Randall
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posted June 03, 2016 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The harm is in the billions wasted to make people like Al Gore rich over a myth at the expense of the rest of us. And there are many scientists who have integrity and denounce the global warming religion. The ones who cling to it do so for grant money.

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Randall
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posted June 04, 2016 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Climate change has to do with political control and reallocation of resources from wealthy nations to poor nations. The people in charge don't care about the planet.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

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From: UK
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posted June 07, 2016 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Surely "reallocation of resources from wealthy nations to poor nations" indicates a drive for social justice which often goes hand in hand with the ecology movement. The two occupy the same space.

When people die as a result of climate change there is an even more urgent need for action.

"India has been hard hit this year by a vicious heatwave with temperatures rising to the hottest ever in India. The heat has been deadly both directly and indirectly. The destruction of crops has driven some farmers to commit suiciderather than leave their farms for a life of poverty in the city, as many thousands of farmers have done.

India has witnessed year on year rises in temperature over the past 15 years, making farming especially hard. This latest heat wave is widely acknowledged to be the result of global warming and climate change. "

from: http://www.independent .co.uk/news/world/asia/india-heatwave-farmers-suicide-killing-themselves-51-record-temperature-climate-change-global-a7039841.html

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Randall
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posted June 07, 2016 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Localized temps have nothing to do with global temps. Any "scientist" who says otherwise isn't worthy of the title. And stealing from the rich to give to the poor under the guise of "climate change" is a cover-up for their real motives, and it is fraud.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

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From: UK
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posted June 07, 2016 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Randall,

Energy and materials used to fuel growth are usually extracted from developing (poor) countries, which suffer the impacts of extraction. In turn, pollutants and waste end up in indigenous or marginalised communities or developing countries. The rich are stealing from the poor big time. This is called environmental injustice.

I wonder if your beliefs are rampant in the US. They are at least dominant, or the US government would have tried to reign in their anti-environment, rapacious corporations.

In contrast, there is a whole world out there whose ideas are antithetical to republicans in general. There are many places where a sense of social justice and global citizenship abound.

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Delilah423
Knowflake

Posts: 611
From:
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posted June 07, 2016 08:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Astro keen:

I wonder if your kind of thinking is rampant in the US. It is at least dominant, or the US government would have tried to reign in their anti-environment, rapacious corporations.


Sadly, it is, although it's only been the last decade that it has become so dominant.

We used to have some decent environmental regulations (or at least a start on them) but our "do nothing," "never compromise" Congress has killed any progress on that.

Money, money, money, money is at the core of most of it.

The saddest part is that the reactionary political right (often fueled by the extreme religious right) and right-wing media (the most prolific of which is Fox News, or as I prefer to call it, Faux News) have convinced at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the population that there is no longer a difference between fact and opinion, and that facts are basically irrelevant.

We have become a nation of "know nothings" as a result.

To be honest, climate change is the least of my worries as an American. I have more to worry about in terms of ensuring that a racist is not elected President, women's rights continue to be honored, freedom of (and from) religion continues as an important value, quality public education continues as an option, etc.

I'm probably two or three times the age of most who post on these boards, and it is the worst I've ever seen it (although I'm not quite old enough to remember the Joe McCarthy witch hunts of the 1950s, which may be the only thing that compares in terms of reactionary right-wing dominance).

It is so far beyond sad and frightening that I have no words to describe how awful it has become.

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Astro keen
Knowflake

Posts: 5077
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2012

posted June 08, 2016 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delilah,

It is reassuring to hear your thoughts. Unfortunately, people not in denial find the circumstances deeply depressing.

I think the problems, though disparate, stem from the same base. And when in a state of crisis, one can only focus on immediate events or survival, as the case may be.

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