posted November 15, 2016 10:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Enneline:
Jwhop, seriously, you couldn't be more far off from any research and evidences serious historians provide.

Just take a loot at wikipedia.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
It was a far right group, one of the main characteristics!

You can be thankful to be on an American Forum which websmaster doesn't know anything about Nazis; you would have already been banned from any German Board, I'll tell you right now.

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If you have any delusions that Hitler was not a socialist I think it would be beneficial for you to read Mein Kampf. At the end of the book you will find all the postulates of his party.

The problem with 'serious' historians is they have opinions. Meanwhile the truth has been 'bent' to serve the winners.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are referencing wikipedia as a reliable source of information ...LOL

posted November 15, 2016 10:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Enneline:
The legendary and notorious battle of Stalingrad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

happened due to the hatred Hitler and Stalin felt for each other. The losses on both sides were already beyond any reasonability but neither of them would give in since the name of the city was "Stalingrad". Hitler wanted to destroy the city that was named after his worst enemy

If you say Stalin was as much as an evil as Hitler: I agree

If you say their initial roots were smiliar: i agree

but any futher development, let out the results happened on opponent sides

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It's not that they hated each other, they have made an alliance, but they were both completely insane and both had ambitions to create an empire.

Stalin thought that Hitler will not repeat Napoleon's mistake. He was wrong, Hitler moved on Stalin in 1941 vide operation Barbarossa.

posted November 15, 2016 11:57 PM            

It wasn't hate that caused Hitler to attack Russia. Germany was using up resources, equipment and manpower at a prodigious rate fighting Britain, knowing the US was probably going to enter the war as Britain's ally.

And there was Russia to the North uninvolved, using no war materials, manpower or resources..fuel. Hitler was convinced that even if Germany prevailed, Germany would be depleted, equipment shattered, out of war materials, low on fuel stocks, war weary and wide open to attack by Russia.

So, Hitler violated the Non-Aggression Pact with Russia and attacked, hoping to take Russia out quickly. That wasn't hate. That was a calculated decision not to leave a potential enemy with full military capability on his east while Germany was expending resources, military equipment and manpower in a war with Britain.

posted November 16, 2016 05:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Novabronte:

If you have any delusions that Hitler was not a socialist I think it would be beneficial for you to read Mein Kampf. At the end of the book you will find all the postulates of his party.

The problem with 'serious' historians is they have opinions. Meanwhile the truth has been 'bent' to serve the winners.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are referencing wikipedia as a reliable source of information ...LOL

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Yeah, the anti-Marxism (Karl Marx - the founder of modern socialism), anti-communism postulates of his party.

Now enlighten us by naming 3 right-wing extremism dictators and 3 right-wing extremism political movements.

It would also help if you listed the basic principles of right-wing doctrines and/or fascist/Nazi/Neo-nazi principles.

Just in case you are confused about what is universally considered "right-wing":

According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics, in liberal democracies, the political Right opposes socialism and social democracy. Right-wing parties include conservatives, Christian democrats, classical liberals, nationalists and, on the far Right, racists and fascists.

Mein Kampf, just a few quotes:

"The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight. Thus it denies the value of personality in man, contests the significance of nationality and race, and thereby withdraws from humanity the premise of its existence and its culture. As a foundation of the universe, this doctrine would bring about the end of any order intellectually conceivable to man. And as, in this greatest of all recognizable organisms, the result of an application of such a law could only be chaos, on earth it could only be destruction for the inhabitants of this planet."

"And so at the age of seventeen the word 'M
arxism' was very little known to me, while I
looked on 'Social Democracy' and 'Socialism' as synonymous expressions. It was only as
the result of a sudden blow from the rough hand of Fate that my eyes were opened to
the nature of this unparalleled system for duping the public. "

"The education which makes them the devotees
of such abstract notions as 'Democracy',
'International Socialism', 'Pacifism', etc
., is so hard-and-fast and exclusive and,
operating as it does from within outwards, is
so purely subjective that in forming their
general picture of outside life as a whole th
ey are fundamentally influenced by these A
PRIORI notions. But, on the other hand, the attitude towards their own German
nationality has been very objective from youth upwards. "

"In short, even at that time, already I recognized that this evil is only partly a result of the doctrines taught by Socialism, Pacifism, etc., but mainly the result of our totally inadequate system of education, the defects of which are responsible for the lack of devotion to our own national ideals. "

"We now marched back along the same route as we had come, in the direction of our
quarters, and there we had to make a stand against the crowd. As their cries and yells
all along the route had failed to disturb the equanimity of our companies, the
champions of true Socialism, Equality, and Fraternity now took to throwing stones.
That brought our patience to an end. For ten minutes long, blows fell right and left, like a devastating shower of hail. Fifteen minutes later there were no more Reds to be seen in the street. "

P.S. Btw, there is no list of postulates at the end of Mein Kampf.
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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted November 16, 2016 05:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Novabronte:

If you have any delusions that Hitler was not a socialist I think it would be beneficial for you to read Mein Kampf. At the end of the book you will find all the postulates of his party.

The problem with 'serious' historians is they have opinions. Meanwhile the truth has been 'bent' to serve the winners.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are referencing wikipedia as a reliable source of information ...LOL

---

posted November 16, 2016 05:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Novabronte:

It's not that they hated each other, they have made an alliance, but they were both completely insane and both had ambitions to create an empire.

Stalin thought that Hitler will not repeat Napoleon's mistake. He was wrong, Hitler moved on Stalin in 1941 vide operation Barbarossa.

Interesting fact they were both 33 degree masons...

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Ah, a former alliance and hatred is not contradictive

posted November 16, 2016 05:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
Thanks for summing up the Hitler/Stalin relationship accurately.

It wasn't hate that caused Hitler to attack Russia. Germany was using up resources, equipment and manpower at a prodigious rate fighting Britain, knowing the US was probably going to enter the war as Britain's ally.

And there was Russia to the North uninvolved, using no war materials, manpower or resources..fuel. Hitler was convinced that even if Germany prevailed, Germany would be depleted, equipment shattered, out of war materials, low on fuel stocks, war weary and wide open to attack by Russia.

So, Hitler violated the Non-Aggression Pact with Russia and attacked, hoping to take Russia out quickly. That wasn't hate. That was a calculated decision not to leave a potential enemy with full military capability on his east while Germany was expending resources, military equipment and manpower in a war with Britain.

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okay. you know better than former soldiers and Nazis.

posted November 16, 2016 05:51 AM            

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted November 16, 2016 07:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Based on my experience, what comes next is the Holocaust denial and Earth sitting on a giant turtle. But let's give these guys a chance, they constantly define themselves as the "right" vs the "lefts", so I am pretty sure they must know the basic principles of the right doctrine(s) and the notable figures, including the right-wing extremism notable figures.

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i would laugh if this topic wasn't that sad and shocking

yes, Holocaust denial usually follows; often along with "there were many genoicides like the Holocaust". NO. There were genoicides but not of this "type".

i just don't get why after so many decades sickly amended theories of nazism bloom up all over the world. why is that? maybe it's very simple: people eager after new theories that are more spectacular than the ones known before; also, of course everyone wants to be the one who reveals or knows the real truth

posted November 16, 2016 07:56 AM            

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIgeQmP66UU

posted November 16, 2016 09:55 AM            

Of course Hitler persecuted Socialists associated with Stalin. They opposed Hitler's National Socialism favoring Stalin's Internationalist Socialism.

posted November 16, 2016 10:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
" he persecuted German communists, socialists"

Of course Hitler persecuted Socialists associated with Stalin. They opposed Hitler's National Socialism favoring Stalin's Internationalist Socialism.

There's a crackpot notion that Socialism is monolithic, that no Socialist dictator would ever oppose another Socialist dictator.

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wow, you really have a weird way to deform any historical fact.

posted November 16, 2016 10:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jwhop:
" he persecuted German communists, socialists"

Of course Hitler persecuted Socialists associated with Stalin. They opposed Hitler's National Socialism favoring Stalin's Internationalist Socialism.

There's a crackpot notion that Socialism is monolithic, that no Socialist dictator would ever oppose another Socialist dictator.

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and what? are you saying that Hitler was an opponent to Stalin?

posted November 16, 2016 12:53 PM            

In any event, leftists are not going to be permitted to throw the cloak of respectability over Socialism. Nor are leftists going to be permitted to run away from the historical fact that Hitler was "one of them" and not the "right wing" dictator they've attempted to morph Hitler into.

#1. “I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit”

He once said to Otto Wagener that the problem with the politicians of the Weimar Republic was that they “had never even read Marx.” He believed that the problem of German Communists was that they didn’t understand the difference between principles and tactics. He referred to them as mere pamphleteers, whereas “I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun.” He stated plainly that “the whole of National Socialism” was based on Marx."

#2. [My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists”

"Hitler wanted to use the old classical liberal class, the entrepreneurs and the individualist’s resources to build socialism in Germany. Socialism is defined technically as public ownership of the means of production, and instead of doing what Stalin did and purge the capitalists, he committed himself instead to simply confiscating their capital. The economy could easily be controlled simply by dispossessing the capitalist class of their means of production, and guiding their productive capacity through the hands of the state."

#3. “If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.” “How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-semite?”

"In a speech in Munich in August 1920, Hitler addressed the National Socialist party on the issues of race and politics. It was widely known that socialists of the time were tied to eugenic policies, as they have throughout history. Indeed, everyone who supported genocide at that time also called themselves socialists."

#4. We must “find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”.

"Speaking to his associate, Hitler argued that the problem with Russian Communism was that they had chosen their path as a revolutionary one. If individualism was to be destroyed, revolution was the most painful and difficult way to destroy the capitalists. Marx and Lenin had the right goals in his mind, but simply chose the wrong tactics."

#5. “Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings.”

"Hitler’s idea of national unity was to take socialism directly to the people. He wanted socialism to not just be about nationalizing industry, but nationalizing the people themselves. The people are the servants of the state, and socialism was the solution all of society’s ills."

#6. “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions”.

"Does it really get any more clear than this? Hitler stated plainly that he was an enemy of capitalism."

#7. “What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish we shall be in a position to achieve.”

"Hitler was merely an unorthodox socialist. Again, he believed that the problems of his predecessors were simply tactical, not philosophical."

posted November 16, 2016 01:08 PM            

@Randall, juniperb or any responsible mod: too bad you are not a German mod- no, not even an European mod would tolerate this.

posted November 16, 2016 01:29 PM            

Hitler's term "Sozialismus" and "Nationalsozialismus" is NOT the same as Marx/Lenin socialism ( what you call the LEFT, socialism, socialists) which is something you immediately discover if you read one definition of Nazi/fascism in the 3rd grade. Go back and read the definition I posted, or look for other 1 million online or in a library, if you didn't go to school, it's no longer an excuse. And read Mein Kampf, Hitler explains it thoroughly, how he got to the term and what it means to him and how far his National-Socialism is from socialism (left wing views). When he says "socialism", he means his doctrine, he means nazism/fascism. Hitler and his politics is far-right, nationalism/fascism.

Sorry, but that's either utter ignorance or deliberate lying propaganda.

Which of course you can continue to embarrass yourself and post it on forums.

Just keep in mind it is traumatic for Nazi victims to go as far as you go, have some respect.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...