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Author Topic:   Tax Bill
Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted December 08, 2017 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And that 8th grade test from the 19th century? Quite possible a generally urban middle class modern student would fail it, sure. Its geared to a farm community and math probs couched in bushels and other farm-oriented terms abound.


Can you translate Macbeth into modern lingo ?

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jwhop
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posted December 08, 2017 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
re the 8th grade test. Sitting here waiting for the blizzard to pass, I had some time to waste.

I took it and as I already know I`m weak in math.

Some grammar tripped me up but this is a test that is certainly passable by posters here.

This question I thought was fun:1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?


Hope you're ready for the long cold winter and have your venison and garden harvest canned and in the cooler...AND a good supply of wood split and stacked.

On the other hand, I'm wishing a mild winter for you!

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 09, 2017 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Linda Jones:

Not that any of your attacks deserve a reply of any kind, but you should know that I am a registered Democrat. Prior to being a Democrat, I was a registered Libertarian for quite some time. I also have plenty of friends who are Republican and I can see both sides of an issue. Financially, I'm more conservative. I'm not against Medicare or SS (and at least 1 person here knows why) but I also try not to believe everything that I see in the news because it is distorted. I do my own research and form an opinion, and if it's more conservative, so what? There is such thing as being a moderate, you know.

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 09, 2017 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by teasel:
and, by the way:

I look at facts. I listen to those who know more than I do. I also listen to those who are scared (and have their facts, which is the REASON they are scared). So it isn't just "someone always knowing someone who is upset". I've been asking questions, but I don't trust those who live up trump's behind. I talk about all of this elsewhere, only with much less arguing going on.


Experiences are valuable...but they're still not facts. Everyone has some form of bias, and any story or experience can be twisted or shaped to convince someone of a false truth.

Maybe I sound cynical, but I don't view experiences with the same weight that I few statistics and analysis. Anyone can say "our taxes are going to go up" or "I know my SS is going to get cut because _____ has already happened to me." It doesn't make their experiences any less valuable or worthy - but it also doesn't make it an absolute truth that we should base laws or bills off of. Anybody can forge or tell any story. Are you going to create all laws to reflect all stories, including all of their bias?

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teasel
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posted December 09, 2017 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StubbornVirgo:
Experiences are valuable...but they're still not facts. Everyone has some form of bias, and any story or experience can be twisted or shaped to convince someone of a false truth.

Maybe I sound cynical, but I don't view experiences with the same weight that I few statistics and analysis. Anyone can say "our taxes are going to go up" or "I know my SS is going to get cut because _____ has already happened to me." It doesn't make their experiences any less valuable or worthy - but it also doesn't make it an absolute truth that we should base laws or bills off of. Anybody can forge or tell any story. Are you going to create all laws to reflect all stories, including all of their bias?


SV, she has the facts.

They already do create laws, or try to, concerning this mythical figure in the sky called God. They've endorsed Roy Moore, using Mary and Joseph as an excuse. Never mind that Joseph never supposedly touched Mary, and that God was the pedophile here.

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teasel
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posted December 09, 2017 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As California burns again:

"The House Republican tax bill would eliminate the deduction for personal losses from wildfires, earthquakes, and other natural disasters."

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Linda Jones
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posted December 09, 2017 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Linda Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
StubbornVirgo,


I appreciate your measured response. My posts weren't attacks, although i can now see why you wld view them as such...from your current post to me as well as the one to teasel where you try to explain yourself a bit more. Was i heavy on sarcasm? Yes, on all posts except a couple in the beginning including the one in which i said i had a sincere question for you...abt your making 15k.

 
For my remaining posts, i apologize for my snark meter being on high. Along w/ the snark i was also stating my overall views, which i'll try and explain now...hopefully you'll be able to put aside all else and read this post through...


It doesn't matter to me if you're republican, democrat, libertarian, moderate, or anything else. I don't carry any party's brand on my back. I look at individual politicians and their policies, just as i look at individual people and their outlook. 


What matters to me most abt people is their level of awareness, irrespective of any label. Bc those w/ a higher level of awareness are more likely to have empathy for others. And empathy is most essential in the collective human experience. The basis for empathy lies in emotion...emotion for others that is


Who i am is a champion of the downtrodden...men, women, as well as children...again irrespective of their party affiliation. There are lots of poor republicans...the coal miners for ex, who put their faith in and voted for #45, but are now suffering financially and health wise, bc he's done nothing for them, yet continues to brainwash and manipulate them thru his speeches by firing up their hate. Poor and sick people especially can feel strong hate


Back to who i am...societal injustices are absolutely abhorrent to me. I'm extremely bothered by laws that are unjust to the disenfranchised.


To teasel you said, "Maybe I sound cynical, but I don't view experiences with the same weight that I few statistics and analysis."


You must know of the old adage, "Statistics don't lie, but statisticians do." This is particularly true when you consider that statisticians, who are people w/ emotions, can also insert personal bias and/or agenda into their analysis.


Statistics can also be, and are, manipulated all the time. In fact right now the govt is being exposed to reveal a huge statistical manipulation of data that has destroyed the health of tens of thousands of people for the last 30 yrs. This willful, massive coverup and fudging of statistical data and analysis has already killed thousands in 30 yrs. Why? If you guessed corporate money, you'd be right. I don't think it shld come as a surprise to anyone that govts lie to people all the time. What brings in the shock value is the exposure and subsequent realization of the fact that the very organizations designed to safeguard the health of the people, have been the ones willfully fudging the statistics


So when considering statistics, i wld first want to know who compiled the data and who did the analysis, and then chk if that person/s have a pony in the race. When it comes to politics, the majority party always has a pony in the race. It is for this reason that i said your analysis of the tax reform is simplistic and naive bc even if...w/ emphasis on "if", the stats look correct, the middle class and those in need can still come away holding the short end of the stick...they always do as evidenced by the continuous disappearance of the middle class towards poverty


I don't think being fiscally conservative (i'm one myself) and helping those in need are mutually exclusive. If i make $100 and i give, or am asked to give $5 of it to someone who needs it to help them get back on their feet, i wld have no problem giving away that $5, especially when i know that the $5 is going to be spent, not only to fulfill a personal need, but also towards contributing to boosting the economy as a whole


This view most republicans have that what's mine is mine and no one had bettr touch it, is fine...except when you consider that it is the financially "lower" classes in society who boost the economy w/ their spending simply bc they represent the vast majority and also bc they don't have enough to invest in the stock market like the rich do...when you consider this all imp and undisputed fact that it is they who boost the economy...then the republican view seems very short sighted and selfish from a bird's eye perspective. I mean we all belong to the same country, the poor are our people. How does it help to tax them to death or to take away their meager finances even in the sightest? Why not give them smth (through programs w/ oversight) as a thank you for supporting the economy. If the middle class didn't exist, do you think the super rich wld be able to exist? No, of course not. W/ their level of high greed and selfishness, they wld end up eating ea other alive


Facts are good, but the bigger picture is more imp, imo. What comes to mind is the story of several blind men, ea of whom touched a different part of an elephant's body and came to a different conclusion abt what they were touching. One touched the tail and said it was a rope, another touched a leg and said it was a tree, and so on. 


We can all "touch" different bits and pieces of the facts doled out by the govt, and even make a huge effort to put aside our differences to piece all the info together...but we cld still be wrong in our ultimate conclusion...for so many reasons...


But where we can never go wrong is if we base our decisions on empathy and compassion for those who need it the most. Why? Bc it falls under the category of doing good...and any good done in the Universe, never goes waste, it multiplies and boomerangs right back. And that's a supernatural fact!


As for your being cynical...i don't think that is as much the case as is your wanting to be emotionally safe...acc to my intuitive sense. I think being detached is also imp and has its usefulness, like your measured response to me in the face of my sarcasm...at such times not giving in to emotions is admirable. At other times though, not being emotionally involved enough can make one lose out on feeling alive...as in, the collective experience of mind, body, and soul...i'll try to explain what i mean by that briefly (below)...


A fact of quantum physics is that almost 95% of the energy in the Universe...and we're all energy, our planet and evything in it is energy...almost 95% of this energy is unseen and cannot be perceived by our 5 physical senses. This 95% is called dark matter (not to be confused w/ heavy low energy frequency vibration, the lowest vibrations being in the realm of evil). 


So given that almost 95% of energy in the universe is "dark" or unseen, i don't think we can rely only on physical facts for the whole truth. I think it imperative that we move beyond the physical senses and explore what lies in the unseen. This exploration of the connection between mind/body/soul is fueled chiefly by emotions of love for humanity. That is why the times when we feel most alive are also the times when we feel greatest love, compassion, and empathy for all beings.


I'll end by saying that i have several virgo friends. I find their cautiousness, attention to detail, and analytical natures sweet in many ways, but it doesn't stop me from nudging them towards the qualities of their opposite sign pisces also, bc i've noticed they're happiest when they can balance the energies of both signs.


Thank you for your feedback abt my sarcasm. I hope you can accept my apology. And even if you don't agree w/ anything i've said in this post, i hope you'll be able to appreciate my attempt at trying to explain where i'm coming from


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Linda Jones
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posted December 09, 2017 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Linda Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by teasel:
As California burns again:

"The House Republican tax bill would eliminate the deduction for personal losses from wildfires, earthquakes, and other natural disasters."



Yes, and it's terrible.


Note that you made this post at 12:12...a spiritually imp time...showing you were in complete alignment w/ the Universe in your empathy at the time of posting. I usually don't look at posting time stamps, but somehow the unusual ones catch my eye

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 10, 2017 02:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Linda Jones:

Sincere question...not trying to be snarky...if you got a nice return on your taxes when you were making 15k, why didn't you stick w/ it? Why go on to make more and take on the burden of increased taxes?

If being below poverty level is all that...bc of govt assistance...then why do the rich clamor to make more, and more, and more? Why don't they opt to make less instead? What do you think they get out of making more?


That's a bit of a ridiculous question, but I'll answer it for kicks. I only made $15,000 that tax year because I had only been working a couple of months out of that year. I was previously unemployed for nearly 2.5 years due to health issues. Now I work full-time, and so I obviously make more money and have put myself in another tax bracket.

FYI even though I only made $15,000, I didn't qualify for any government assistance. (Trust me, I tried - I would have LOVED to have had food stamps.) Oh, and when I wasn't working that 2.5 years? I wasn't on unemployment *or* disability, and I didn't qualify for any other assistance then, either. I couldn't even get Medicaid - I had to buy into Obamacare, which cost me a hefty $350 premium every month for a substandard health insurance plan that didn't even come close to covering the costs of my bills.

I have NO problem with government assistance, but it rarely works the way that it's intended to. A reform of government assistance is not a bad thing, IMO.

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Linda Jones
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posted December 10, 2017 03:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Linda Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StubbornVirgo:
I have NO problem with government assistance, but it rarely works the way that it's intended to. A reform of government assistance is not a bad thing, IMO.


Agree it's not a bad thing provided the reform doesn't mean taking money away from the program to put it in the pockets of billionaires

Sorry for your ill health and the subsequent trying experiences

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 10, 2017 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Linda Jones:

Agree it's not a bad thing provided the reform doesn't mean taking money away from the program to put it in the pockets of billionaires


I see nothing to suggest that a reform would result in that. Pretty much any leader who has mentioned Medicaid and Medicare reform wants to do it in hopes of lowering the deficit and reducing taxes on everybody (not just the rich).

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Randall
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posted December 12, 2017 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Despite all the fear mongering and fake news, no one is advocating any cuts. The Republicans want to sustain those programs by slowing the unfettered growth of them. That's not a cut.

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Catalina
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posted December 17, 2017 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-gops-capital-gains-tax-hike-1513035592?nan_pid=1863276106

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 18, 2017 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Despite all the fear mongering and fake news, no one is advocating any cuts. The Republicans want to sustain those programs by slowing the unfettered growth of them. That's not a cut.

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Randall
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posted December 18, 2017 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If we allow an endless expansion, it cannot be sustained. What we need to focus on is allowing those who want a job to be able to find meaningful work, including being able to obtain an education. Most people want to contribute to the local community and to society as a whole, and for those who need support and can't work, to provide that support system--to look upward at our goals and dreams, but also reach down to those who are struggling. We've all been there.

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Catalina
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posted December 18, 2017 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does that explain defunding CHIP? And why are republicans discussing CUTS toi cime to those programs when they've got theur bill passed? SS doesnt even belong in the general budget.. what business do they have messing with it at all..and who is going to be motivated to work more age 88? their middle aged children struggling to keep their heads above water as it is?

Ate you familiar with Dickens?

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Randall
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posted December 18, 2017 10:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
CHIP is authorized through 2019. Let's get the budget approved first before the government shuts down.

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StubbornVirgo
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posted December 19, 2017 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StubbornVirgo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
If we allow an endless expansion, it cannot be sustained. What we need to focus on is allowing those who want a job to be able to find meaningful work, including being able to obtain an education. Most people want to contribute to the local community and to society as a whole, and for those who need support and can't work, to provide that support system--to look upward at our goals and dreams, but also reach down to those who are struggling. We've all been there.

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teasel
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posted December 19, 2017 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Despite all the fear mongering and fake news, no one is advocating any cuts. The Republicans want to sustain those programs by slowing the unfettered growth of them. That's not a cut.

Your president got where he is with fear-mongering, and persists in it. This makes me sick - putting it on the Dems, when he is always stoking the flames of fear.

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Randall
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posted December 19, 2017 06:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're joking, right? "Repealing net neutrality will destroy the internet!" "The tax plan is an attack on poor people!" Ring any bells?

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Catalina
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posted December 19, 2017 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
States are shutting down their child health programs for lack of funds. In Jsnuary. Because funding expired in November.

You are so horrified that estates mught be taxed but no prob that people who are alive and working are going to be taxed on their taxes.

Take your blinders off.. stop imbibing the propaganda station swill

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Randall
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posted December 19, 2017 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You didn't hear me. It's authorized through 2019. Funding expired. The budget hasn't been approved yet. I said wait and let us stop the government from being shut down first. In January the budget will be confirmed.

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Randall
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posted December 19, 2017 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alive and working? What are you talking about? It's a tax cut. If anything, it raises taxes on the wealthy by eliminating some of their deductions, which is something you should support, yes? And CHIP may be addressed this week, unless they vote to extend until next month.

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Catalina
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posted December 19, 2017 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Removing the deductions for state and local taxes means taxing the same income twice or even thrice. It also eliminates or reduces the gains of higher standard deductions for anyone who earns a decent amount of money in states with taxes. Add loss of mortgage deductions.. medical expenses.. yes, those alive and working are being "simplified" into double and triple taxation so those who inherit over $10mill don't have to pay tax on their new wealth. And yes, assets or income, over $10 mill is wealth that most people never see

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Randall
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posted December 19, 2017 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try to stay relevant. The mortgage interest (capped at $750,000) and medical deductions are in the bill. State and local taxes are, as well, but they are capped at $10,000. You can ask your state and local tax robbers to give you back some of the money they steal from you, but I doubt tax reform in those deep blue states will ever occur.

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