posted August 03, 2019 12:04 AM            

Really?

posted August 03, 2019 12:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
All nations depend on trade to some degree (it's a small world), but we are no longer dependent on those who hate us for oil. Much of the world depends on us for natural gas. We are not conquerors. The U.S. Constitution has survived well over 200 years and will continue to do so. We can just agree to disagree. The Roman empire is nothing like America. Not to mention that it was a different time.

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the us in its early history did conquer territory and a good deal of it so i'm not sure what you mean there

rome didn't constantly expand, there were many points in its history where it didn't really move at all (and some where it shrunk as well)

you're talking to someone who's nerdy enough to watch time lapse map videos of empires rising and falling through war (among other things), just saying

i'm not even just talking trade, you know america has been at war throughout most of its history right? (war is one way to secure resources and america has definitely done that) that's just a thing if you look at all the major military conflicts and war in american history what you get is about 20 years or so without major involvement in the time america has been around

the us constitution hasn't actually survived, not the way it was originally written and neither has the ideology of the declaration of independence

if you look at things that have been infringed on you'll see the current government is very far removed from the ideals that the nation was built on

that's why i said america's been long gone if you're measuring what it is based on the ideals that it was founded on

land mass with the same name but a bastardized version of the original framework that's the reality

there's also the cultural melting pot aspect that it shares with rome (mass immigration actually being one of the causes of the fall of the empire, along with civil war that eventually managed to divide rome into 2 parts) and even parts of the government are greek and roman inspired

aside from all that my point is people who have a good deal of pride for the country they live in very rarely see reality for what it is, which is their country like any another is subject to change and eventual collapse

all civilizations collapse and change over the years and america is unlikely to be the first one that goes on forever (if it were to be then it wouldn't be any place worth living because it would come at the cost of such extreme tyranny it would likely be unbearable and you'd be better off somewhere else)

200 years isn't very long as far as an established civilization goes especially if we're holding it up against rome which took longer than that to fall

i compare civilization to civilization because it's not apples to oranges it's societies humans create and it's what we have to study to understand aspects of human nature at the level where things become unnatural

because while it's in human nature to create civilizations as they take on a life of their own they begin to restrict human nature and become something removed from it, and when it hits a certain tipping point people generally respond

civil unrest only lasts so long before people react, can't keep nature down that's ultimately just reality

also if the us clings to dying ways of doing things like what you're saying with oil then we definitely won't stay afloat longterm because the world and technology will move on without us

edit: btw post civil war rome when it divided into two its halves didn't collapse at the same time, so technically half of rome was still around for a really long time

posted August 03, 2019 07:36 AM            

that's like saying "germany is being overrun because it's the best" it's not, it's just that a lot of places are currently being flooded with mass immigration due to war

america isn't number one with health care (based on quality not even talking about the system itself), we're not number one with education, we're not number one general life satisfaction etc and so on, that's just statistics

the security and privacy is a major issue it's not a light one, and the country isn't improving that much you just like the current president

also america is tyrannical in a lot of ways including being the cause of some of those refugee situations

it's not that we're fighting tyranny everywhere, in some places we're actually the tyrants (including our own soil where invasions of privacy are the standard not the exception, the police force is becoming increasingly militarized, surveillance is only getting worse, and there's plenty of unjust laws and a flawed prison system to go with it etc and so on if that doesn't sound dystopian to you i'm not sure what your ideals are lol but they sure as hell ain't mine)

subjectivity and all that, you can say "america's fighting tyranny" and then actually speak to someone from another country we're supposedly doing that in and their view can be very different

last i checked japan is turning out more technological advancements than america so the us isn't number one in technology and innovation, japan is leading and europe is doing pretty ******* good

there's a lot of people currently working to get rid of the need for fossil fuels, and again, technology increases exponentially

so let's say (and i'm not throwing out actual figures here this is just an example) it increases 10x a year, well in 2 years that's a huge difference from current technology and it continuing on like that equates with rapid change

if people are actively trying to phase something out (which they are) chances are it's not going to be around in the same manner it is currently in the future

my view isn't at all shortsighted if it was i'd be telling you that technology increases in areas where there's been a lot of active growth aren't going to affect the present reality "for a long time"

america is loaded in civil unrest, and the division is likely going to create problems down the line

trump isn't necessarily going to be in office much longer, and if he does win another term that civil unrest is going to increase to huge levels (there's a campaign promise he completely failed at "bringing a divided country together" did the opposite, further division)

the reality remains the same someone with a lot of pride and attachment to their country isn't going to view it in a way that's objective on any level instead they're going to just say it's the best in every way possible, assume refugees being actively displaced (usually because we're dropping a **** ton of bombs on those areas) are all just coming here because it's "so great," turn a blind eye to a lot of the issues in other areas of the world that we're actively causing, ignore technological advances in other countries (and their higher standards of education) etc and so on

there's loving your country and then there's being blind the reality of it, i can love a country without pretending the government is perfect, other places are terrible, and it's somehow the best

it's just the country i'm in and as a result i'd prefer if it thrives, but it's not currently actually all that great and a lot would need to be done to get it there

including disassembling the current mess that controls it

love without objectivity causes blindness

like i said i'm sure people who are extremely patriotic throughout history think their country will somehow stay "on top" forever but that's not the actual reality

and maybe it will last a long time, but what i was saying is as is it shouldn't because the system itself is loaded in corruption and it's only when you don't pay attention to the rest world and other points of view that you would think otherwise

btw **** like the patriot act infringes on 4th amendment rights, same way gun control laws infringe on the 2nd

so our constitution isn't quite being upheld the way it's meant to be, just saying

the government actively violates the principles this country was founded on, so if you like those original ideals then support of the current system makes little sense

as far as the ideals the country was founded on i'm alright with them, but their execution in reality isn't the ideal on any level it's pure corruption and trump is part of that not some shining beacon of hope

posted August 03, 2019 09:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Wrong on all counts. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real, and you are afflicted. If you think President Trump isn't going to be in office much longer, you are not as keen an observer as you like think you are. Most are not refugees. They only claim that. Civil unrest over a lawful election? Only nut jobs like ANTIFA speak like that. But the country is doing great, and it will be even better next year when the Dems lose the House and more Senate seats, so President Trump can fix the broken immigration system and healthcare.

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i'm not wrong on all counts, i said many are refugees not all and i know plenty of people who have legally immigrated here from places like yemen and i know their views both on their country of origin and this one

just go out and talk to people and the picture they paint is very different than the one you're insisting on

the reality is even people here legally have felt displaced in a good deal of cases, in others it's about quality of life

i'm speaking statistics when it comes to technology, health care, and education we aren't ahead

and i'm not talking about the health care system when i say health care i'm talking about the literal quality we're behind not ahead (because we'll get very far off track talking about the system itself)

just like our education system is subpar in comparison to other nations

quality of life surveys statistically do not place america at number one, especially in regards to people's overall satisfaction at the quality of life (and really let's be honest here the suicide rates increasing and levels of prescription drugs for mental health issues reflect that)

there's clear civil unrest in spite of it being a lawful election, lawful or not doesn't matter when it comes to whether or not civilians are happy

that's just human nature you can lose something in a "just" manner and still be angry and want change

the fact that there are groups like antifa should make it clear that lawful elections can still incite civil unrest, that's just the reality of this country and its current climate

i said he might win, he also might not, i called him winning the last election i would have to follow the debates to pick a clear winner this time around

my views on immigration in a "democracy" are actually in favor of high levels of control btw because it's completely senseless to have a democracy and then flood an area with immigrants and allow them the same voting rights as citizens if you wish to have stability just throwing that out there

granted i think democracy in and of itself is flawed and technically we don't actually have that, but if i suspend reality and pretend it exists on a level where there's actual quality then mass immigration is completely the wrong move

you seem to think that just filling an area with people who share your views is the same as fixing a broken system, i can assure you it isn't

i'm also not wrong about the patriot act, the ever increasing surveillance, the militarization of police against us citizens, the existence of unjust laws etc and so on

you can just look this **** up and see it exists and goes on, you're willfully turning a blind eye because you like the current president

guess what even if he wins 2 terms he's not going to win another, there will be someone else

and the reality is left or right a lot of the underlying major issues (like some of the **** i listed) have continued on because left and right don't actually matter

the system is broken and corrupt and trump is a part of that

posted August 03, 2019 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
It is scary how much you worship the guy.

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it's pretty standard for a lot of trump supporters

i can give trump that he's very good at gaining blind support, but you can tell he's studied dictators when you look at the way he speaks

the body language and style of his speeches etc

great tactics for winning control, i can respect that, that's how i knew he'd win the first election

posted August 03, 2019 10:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
@jwhop
you do realize people are actively working on finding things to replace them right? when i say technology increases exponentially i mean just that there's huge leaps in possibilities and capabilities in a short amount of time do you really think that no one is going to be capable of making workable alternatives?

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You avoided the question.

What technology or what improvements to current technology are going to replace fossil fuels.

Another question.

posted August 03, 2019 10:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
You avoided the question.

What technology or what improvements to current technology are going to replace fossil fuels.

Another question.

Why should fossil fuels be replaced...given the fact that Man Made Global Warming is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on the human race.

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oh you want me to pretend to be psychic and say i have a definitive answer for where technology is going to go, i don't do that

i will say that trends towards other sources of energy of varying kinds are on the rise and as a result technology and focus are expanding in that area and it's a clearly growing market

due to the nature of technological advances being so rapid and that being a focus it only makes sense to expect that there will be eventual success and phasing things out

trends towards replacing fossil fuels are just on the rise both with technology and public opinion, that's just reality

as i said earlier in this thread it doesn't matter if global warming is real or not, belief is stronger than fact and societal trends are in that direction (not turning this into a debate about whether or not global warming is a hoax because it's completely irrelevant)

fossil fuels and the means of acquiring them do cause pollution and damage however, without global warming coming into the equation that's just reality

**** like fracking does damage water supplies and that's not a hoax

it doesn't really matter if something should or shouldn't be replaced what matters is the current trends towards replacement and public opinion shifts

posted August 03, 2019 04:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
I have no problem with legal immigration. Conversely, the extremism of open borders and free healthcare for here illegally is not on par with the average American's views, and this ensures a victory for President Trump. Yes, he is a charismatic leader. Biden can't even get 200 people to show up and stay awake. The problem with our healthcare system is affordability. The quality is unmatched. In countries with government-run healthcare, you are in line for months to receive treatment.

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the quality is worse than cuba where there's better doctors and better healthcare for **** like cancer (the problem is it's cuba) just saying, that's facts man

we don't have the best doctors in the world, we don't have the best schools etc

that's just not where we rank statistically

again not talking about the systems or the waiting lists etc i'm talking about what happens when a patient actually sees a doctor and that quality of care

so past all the red tape when you're in the room with a doctor you're better off in other countries than you are here

the issues you're talking with waiting lists have to the system not actually just being there in the room with a doctor

i have no problem with legal immigration given tight regulations in a democratic society, because the reality is if you want democracy you should probably not also want open borders if you want stability or to preserve any way of life for citizens

my views on borders change if we're not talking about a democratic society, then i see less of a need for such tight regulation though obviously still regulations if you're going to have a functional system of government and society

completely open borders only makes sense when there's not much of government at all because of the effects of mass immigration on citizens and the ways that alters everything

i disagree with health care for illegals outside of medical emergencies in which case i think the patient comes first and who they are only matters later (which is how it should be for any doctor or paramedic etc) because it puts unnecessary strain on funding that would be more beneficial for people within the country

it's not a government's job to look after non citizens on the same level as it should its own, that's just completely nonsensical and i don't really understand people who think otherwise

a government's entire purpose should be to serve its citizens and give them a high quality life rather than putting them out for outsiders

trump is more charismatic than biden i'll give him that

there's ******* compilation videos of biden giving awkward shoulder so... yeah

posted August 03, 2019 05:36 PM            

So, there you are running on about technology replacing fossil fuels but you couldn't come up with a single possibility. Why do people pretend they've got it all figured out.

I thought you would spout off about solar and wind generated electricity replacing fossil fuels. You came close to doing so but both of those are dead ends as anyone knows who has taken even a half a$$ed stab at running the numbers.

Green weenies need to face facts. Fossil fuels, hydroelectric and nuclear energy are the most efficient energy sources for powering the economies and societies of high powered cultures.

Unless of course, green weenies aren't the least interested in maintaining high powered economies and cultures. Then, their obsession with solar and wind power makes more sense. Hello 'Little House on the Prairie', sod huts and candle powered lighting....except for the green weenie set.

The 2 alternatives green weenies will not talk about are hydroelectric and nuclear powered electricity generation, both of which produce enough cheap and clean energy to power our high powered economy and residential needs. Green weenies say...shut them down!

posted August 03, 2019 05:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
"oh you want me to pretend to be psychic and say i have a definitive answer for where technology is going to go, i don't do that"

So, there you are running on about technology replacing fossil fuels but you couldn't come up with a single possibility. Why do people pretend they've got it all figured out.

I thought you would spout off about solar and wind generated electricity replacing fossil fuels. You came close to doing so but both of those are dead ends as anyone knows who has taken even a half a$$ed stab at running the numbers.

Green weenies need to face facts. Fossil fuels, hydroelectric and nuclear energy are the most efficient energy sources for powering the economies and societies of high powered cultures.

Unless of course, green weenies aren't the least interested in maintaining high powered economies and cultures. Then, their obsession with solar and wind power makes more sense. Hello 'Little House on the Prairie', sod huts and candle powered lighting....except for the green weenie set.

The 2 alternatives green weenies will not talk about are hydroelectric and nuclear powered electricity generation, both of which produce enough cheap and clean energy to power our high powered economy and residential needs. Green weenies say...shut them down!

Which only proves the point I've made over and over..here. One can't have a rational conversation with leftists. They have their heads up their kazoos and can't hear..or see.

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there's many different sources of alternative energy that are being looked into, do i know which one will be the one that sticks and is adapted to work over the years? no but i assume you know there's other **** out there and have heard of them and didn't need a list

the fact is that those technologies are being adapted and worked on so where they're at now isn't necessarily where they'll be at years from now

again "exponentially" meaning if it's 10x in 1 year it's going to be 100x in 2 that's how that **** works

which is why i'm not deadset on the idea that nothing will ever work better, because that's ******* stupid when people are actively looking for alternative sources and technology improves constantly

i'm not even leftist lmao you have no idea what you're talking about but cool

i'm just pointing out that there is movement away and that it's possible that slowly phasing things out and changing focus might be in the best interests for the future because of where the future of technology is heading

literally said in my first post that banning them outright would be ******* stupid and tank the economy, so if anyone has their head in their "kazoo" it's you

@randall we don't have the best education systems, why would you think we had the best educated doctors? we don't rank number one i promise just look up statistics

and yeah those alternative treatments they have there that we don't have here are doing a lot (that's why there was medical tourism, which is something us citizens actually do engage in)

again the waiting list was irrelevant to what i was speaking about, that's a system not the trained professional actually giving the care

places with better education or better focus tend to have better quality doctors

just how **** works

you said it yourself in the gun thread more likely to be killed by a doctor than a gun here

posted August 03, 2019 06:41 PM            

saying america has the best everything isn't the same as that actually being true and **** there's parts of the us you shouldnt drink the water either, matter of fact some of those places made the news not that long ago

statistics say different and like i said when it comes to treatment of specific cancers they are ahead in research (everything no? lmao it's ******* cuba, but with some **** ? yeah definitely same with other places)

acknowledging where your country fails is what actually helps build it, insisting you have the best of everything when everyone else can see that isnt true doesn't mean much

k-12 matters a lot for education and most people, your average citizen isn't getting into a top university