posted January 15, 2021 02:26 PM            

https://www.today.com/health/children-apologize-spreading-covid-19-relatives-death-beds-officials-say-t205684?cid=sm_npd_td_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR0QiS_HtrKhH9WH2AHwZqBIOTFkTiNyul28 lt2OZM

ETA: Sorry for some reason the link is not embedding live. Gotta copy and paste it into your browser.

posted January 15, 2021 02:39 PM            

I used to think you were just daffy. Now I am convinced you are just evil.

posted January 15, 2021 03:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Apparently, some people think it is okay to make children apologize on death beds of relatives for "transmitting" Covid19 to them. Who the ... thinks it is a good idea to inflict this kind of guilt on defenseless children? Why haven't the American Psychiatric organization, the American family therapists organizations and Children Protection organizations raise

the alarm over this disturbing trend?

https://www.today.com/health/children-apologize-spreading-covid-19-relatives-death-beds-officials-say-t205684?cid=sm_npd_td_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR0QiS_HtrKhH9WH2AHwZqBIOTFkTiNyul28 lt2OZM

ETA: Sorry for some reason the link is not embedding live. Gotta copy and paste it into your browser.

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posted January 15, 2021 06:16 PM            

tablet/phone goodbyes are very common with the pandemic because letting people into facilities isnt really a thing

my last job we had a hospice cases only 1 designated visitor per person rule and they had to wear full ppe and get temp checked etc to get in and even then most people opted for the video call goodbye and the rest of the family had to

kids know how illness is contracted and express misdirected guilt, this is natural even if adults around them say otherwise

guilt is common with loss even in completely different scenarios, just a normal facet of grief

teasel's comment seems harsh but upon actually reading the article it seems you misrepresented the content or at the very least took it out of context and projected things onto it that you felt were accurate

which has the same result but is unintentional 🤷‍♀️

i understand doing that, i can sometimes due to my own bad childhood so if you had any similar issues i can only assume that came into play

but yeah this article just looks like people feeling the weight of seeing that sort of thing happening and it's sort of heavy handed but pretty normal

posted January 15, 2021 06:54 PM            

Yes, they know there is a pandemic and what they are supposed to do, but the only way a child is going to pick up such a heavy unfair guilt trip of feeling responsible for "bringing" Covid into a home and being responsible for the death of a parent or grandparent and feeling the need to apologize on death beds is if someone placed that guilt trip upon them.

First of all, how does a child "bring" Covid into a home? That very language makes it look as though a child knowingly picks it up somewhere, carried it in his hand and dropped it on the family table! It is an airborne virus for heaven sake, people should stop using language that guilt trips impressionable vulnerable children.

Children pick up their cues from their caregivers and caretakers, from those they look up to.

Letting children think they are responsible for the virus death of a parent is totally inaccurate, unscientific, unfair, and downright abusive.

posted January 15, 2021 07:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
You are off the deep end with hatred. You have absolutely zero awareness of the damage you are inflicting on children or you absolutely do not care as long as it's advancing your agenda.

I used to think you were just daffy. Now I am convinced you are just evil.

I hope and pray you never have kids.

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Well said.....i cringe when I see young children and totters with masks.there is a link on spider line-brain damage from masks that goes into the nuerogical damage suffer when cognitive learning is impeded with masks on childen.in young children, their are nerve connection that need to be stimulated by cognitive learning of the meaning facial movement and and facial social clues .if the child is deprived by a mask of making cognitive associations between behavior and attitudes and care giver/parents,these nerves connection in the brain do not form.these neural connection will not form later in life resulting in psychogical damaged children...
Teasel is so concerned with implementing this fascist hoax that she throws common sens out the window to support her agenda.

These fascist hoaxers want damaged children so the can implement what can only be described as a satanic program.

Science has been totally disregarded as less
than .1% of individuals under 50 will have any adverse reactions to this "flu".

posted January 15, 2021 07:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:

I hope and pray you never have kids.

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Shouldn't be a problem

posted January 15, 2021 08:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Children do not spend time watching CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, And all those channels on their own. They are too busy watching their kid channels.

Yes, they know there is a pandemic and what they are supposed to do, but the only way a child is going to pick up such a heavy unfair guilt trip of feeling responsible for "bringing" Covid into a home and being responsible for the death of a parent or grandparent and feeling the need to apologize on death beds is if someone placed that guilt trip upon them.

First of all, how does a child "bring" Covid into a home? That very language makes it look as though a child knowingly picks it up somewhere, carried it in his hand and dropped it on the family table! It is an airborne virus for heaven sake, people should stop using language that guilt trips impressionable vulnerable children.

Children pick up their cues from their caregivers and caretakers, from those they look up to.

Letting children think they are responsible for the virus death of a parent is totally inaccurate, unscientific, unfair, and downright abusive.

I don't really care if adults are being brainwashed into fear mongering and guilt tripping. They are adults and should be able to exercise their adult brain cells. But we are talking here about vulnerable children whose psyche will be affected for life.

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the kid doesn't have to know about the pandemic to understand how illness works they could have learned about germs and how colds and such are spread without watching the news

that wasn't how i learned about germs, did you learn it that way?

they could somehow be completely sheltered and still understand that they can catch a cold from another person's germs

after that it's simple common sense **** which kids are perfectly capable of

if they were sick first and then someone else in their household got sick they will think "i got them sick" because they had the germs first and then someone else developed the same illness after to a more serious degree

get taken to a doctor they have covid, what did grandma have? oh covid too ok

connect the dots then guilt

no one has to fill the kids' head with anything other than basic knowledge of infectious diseases (which i knew about early on, you didn't? you never had people say "catch a cold" or something?) and then life goes on from there

there's no specified age here and you seem to be operating under a strange assumption that children are completely stupid and unable to connect the dots

initially the dying relative may have not been very sick, they may have overheard it's the same thing etc

feelings of guilt can be entirely self generated in adults and children and there's a wide range of ages in what counts as a "kid" in the first place

a 7 year old could have at 4 years old caught a cold from a friend and retained the knowledge that illness is transferable, get sick at school with covid pass it on then figure it out themselves because they were the first one sick

i'm not sure why you assume these things aren't just common knowledge or knowledge that could have been picked up prior to the pandemic being applied to the current situation by a child

posted January 15, 2021 08:27 PM            

like i said understanding how illness is spread could have been learned at any point during their lives not just post pandemic, but even post pandemic it's arguably responsible to teach kids to do things like wash their hands cover their mouths when they cough etc and so on and explain the truth of why

children aren't just blank slates with no mind of their own or ability to apply information learned to various scenarios until they become teenagers or adults, that's just not in line with reality

kids do think and pick things up (even things they may overhear or eavesdrop on) and then have their own personalities

and as i've previously stated guilt is a common stage of grief when it comes to death to begin with, even in adults

the language in the article isn't problematic because it's an article not meant for and not read by children and it is just that if someone gets sick outside of the home first they are the carrier bringing it into the home

there's no fault here of course, illness isn't a person's fault things happen even to careful people and kids should be assumed to be germy to begin with just by being kids 🤷‍♀️ even pre covid by the adults around them

i don't agree with zoom classes being largely in place depriving children of social growth and so on btw i think that's far worse than the content of this article

nowhere in the article does it say kids are being forced into anything only describing situations that sound like they may have gotten sick first and then felt guilt and expressed it when saying goodbye

which is something their families will have to sort out but are not necessarily in control of

consider researching the role of guilt in grief, having worked hospice i'm going to be honest with you this is common in all ages and not just related to covid but in a case where child is sick first and caretaker falls ill but dies it's pretty common sense why the child will take on that wound on their own

edit: btw i'm sure there are abusive situations where your scenario applies, but there are many situations that are not abusive that could yield this result (guilt) and that should be acknowledged

posted January 15, 2021 08:35 PM            

quote:

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Children do not spend time watching CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, And all those channels on their own. They are too busy watching their kid channels.

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posted January 15, 2021 08:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shura:
from "gran caught my cold" to "I killed gran" is a hell of a jump and not one a child would naturally take in my experience.

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it isn't a hell of a jump if the child knows that their grandmother is dying from the cold they had or sees it happen or overhears it

a parent on the phone saying "she's dying of covid" about grandma when the child knows they had covid first is all it can take or even just knowing grandma tested positive before she took a turn for the worst

guilt and grief exist in better scenarios from people of all ages

a kid can do something like say "i hate you" to their mother over something dumb, the mom could die later, and they could make themselves feel like it was their fault because of what they said

a cold that was spread is even less of a stretch with guilt but the scenario i've described also happens

edit: just a quick look into grief and dealing with death in adults and children will show you these things

posted January 15, 2021 09:34 PM            

Ok. So if we think children are manufacturing their own guilt feelings from the way they understand their environment and infectious diseases, what are the efforts made to ameliorate this serious issue?

The article said nothing about what the health professionals who are hearing these kids express apologies to people on death beds are doing to rectify the situation. So if you hear a 8 year old tell grandma, "I apologize for bringing covid into our home and killing you' you are not going to say anything to the parent or caregiver on what they should do to rectify this unfortunate situation?

Since this was an article about children, where are the child psychologists chiming on this serious issue and offering solutions that protect and heal the kids mentioned and any future kids in the same situation? Nowhere to be found in the article.

posted January 15, 2021 11:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
@ Dumuzi,

Ok. So if we think children are manufacturing their own guilt feelings from the way they understand their environment and infectious diseases, what are the efforts made to ameliorate this serious issue?

The article said nothing about what the health professionals who are hearing these kids express apologies to people on death beds are doing to rectify the situation. So if you hear a 8 year old tell grandma, "I apologize for bringing covid into our home and killing you' you are not to say anything to the parent or caregiver on what they should do to rectify this unfortunate situation?

Since this was an article about children, where are the child psychologists chiming on this serious issue and offering solutions that protect and heal the kids mentioned and any future kids in the same situation? Nowhere to be found in the article.

But the article made sure to use these instances as cautionary tales, and give the final advice, please don't let this happen to you, STAY HOME AND BE SAFE. Because it is not about genuine concern for the grieving kids mental and emotional well being. It's about perpetuating Covid propaganda.

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they likely are because kids can feel guilty even in other circumstances, these feelings can be a natural part of the grieving process for people of all ages

so outside of abusive situations that's a reality

there are programs and things for kids in particular dealing with loss and resources and it depends really on the facility whether or not the workers are pointing families in those directions

i know that i'm aware of these programs and resources for both adults and children because of work i've done in the past and directing people to those things being commonplace

yes the article was written with a bias, which is why i said that it was heavy handed and playing to emotions, but that's the fault of the writer not the actual situation

the article doesn't say any of this is forced, and while it should have provided resources the writer themselves had a bias

it's a legitimate problem, but not necessarily one stemming from abuse, and there are resources and counseling and programs aimed at kids that should have been mentioned

your complaint is with the article's tone though not the situation presented in it

posted January 15, 2021 11:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
I wouldn't wish that kind of guilt trip on anyone, let alone a kid.

I am pretty sure unless these kids receive serious therapeutic attention, they will develop self-hatred, anxiety, depression, sleep difficulties, OCD, addictions, they may even start cutting or try to hurt themselves as punishment.

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oh they definitely do need treatment for it and counseling and support etc because it is damaging

but this sort of thing can happen even in better scenarios so it's not necessarily being put on them is all i was saying

the need for them to have it addressed in a prompt loving way however is necessary and i would hope these healthcare workers are letting the families know or that parents who see this are taking action

the writer of this article is definitely a piece of **** but that's not necessarily on the families of these kids so i feel like speaking from a place of compassion for everyone's grief is not pointing fingers for people experiencing a normal emotion associated with grief and loss

posted January 16, 2021 06:51 AM            

However, it is natural for children to blame themselves in some way when tragedy strikes. You see it all the time in divorce cases, parental separation, absentee parenting and sexual abuse. The child blames themselves. Although in the latter it is indeed often instilled in them that it is their fault they are being abused. But in the case of an absent parent, the child comes to this conclusion independently in a lot of cases.

So, could go either way with this. Whichever way you go though, it is heartbreaking. Poor wee souls.

posted January 16, 2021 07:00 AM            

I hope something is being done for those kids and that the parents or whoever are in charge do not think this is normal behavior.

posted January 16, 2021 07:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Thank you for talking me off the ledge, here.

I hope something is being done for those kids and that the parents or whoever are in charge do not think this is normal behavior.

I am going to need to take a break because this has really done something to my soul.

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Yes. All authorities have a duty to prioritise therapeutic service provision for the mental health of all children in this pandemic. They are the ones who have lost the most, both now and in their future.

I'm feeling it too Belage