posted January 28, 2021 02:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Of course not. But I suppose the difference is that regular athletes are not identifying as special needs athletes.

I don't disagree with your logic on this, like I said, I see both sides. But if a biological male identifies as a female, creating a 3rd category does not address the actual issue and just shifts any potential risk from females to transfemales. In the current climate though (and I do understand the concerns around risk and women's rights) there may be no other option until we have a greater understanding and more stability.

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I apologize for not understanding your reply.

Are you saying you are concerned that if a biological male identifies as a female, creating a 3rd category does not address the actual issue and just shifts any potential risk from females to transfemales, and that is not okay. So let's keep the potential risks on females only, not on transfemales?

Are you also saying that the only option we have right now is to allow transgenders to compete with females until we have greater understanding and more stability?

Again, I apologize and I am asking for clarification because I don't want to misunderstand you.

posted January 28, 2021 02:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
I apologize for not understanding your reply.

Are you saying you are concerned that if a biological male identifies as a female, creating a 3rd category does not address the actual issue and just shifts any potential risk from females to transfemales, and that is not okay. So let's keep the potential risks on females only, not on transfemales?

Are you also saying that the only option we have right now is to allow transgenders to compete with females until we have greater understanding and more stability?

Again, I apologize and I am asking for clarification because I don't want to misunderstand you.

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No, sorry, it's me. I'm speaking more on the wider issue of integration to or segregation from women's spaces. My mind has wandered away from the sports.

They could conduct physical assessments and only admit transfemales who are assessed as being physically equal in their athletic abilities to biofemales. I'm sure this would throw up other problems though.

TBH, I'm more worried about the public toilets situation than sports. No easy answer to that one either.

posted January 28, 2021 02:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
@Voix, I don't mean to pile up on you. You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it.

Thanks for explaining.

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Ditto

posted January 31, 2021 01:10 PM            

I have met people who were not born into Native American lineage, yet felt a very strong connection to the people and culture, perhaps from past lives, who knows.

I once knew this caucasian woman who had extensively studied with Native American shamans and healers, went through many rituals and journeys, and was living on a reservation and was accepted there as one of their own. she had married a man from that tribe and lived a life for the most part indistinguishable from the rest of the tribe. She had changed her name to a given Native American name.

Though she was accepted, she never pretended or demanded that she be considered 100% native American. Out of respect, she never imposed herself on them, as in you MUST take me in this space, you owe it to me, I need it for my health; this was never part of the way she operated. If she was allowed in some space, that was great. If she was not, it was okay. She did not make 100& acceptance and participation the treshhold for her emotional health and fullfillment. And she would certainly never have resorted to using the law to force herself on them in any way.

And this is the energetic and spiritual crux of the issue, in addition to the scientific and biological issues.

If you are not originally from a group, it is problematic for you to force yourself on that group and demand that they accept you in all of their spaces as one of their own.

I can't help but feel there is a lack of true self-love and self-acceptance in the agenda to force transgenders on women.

Being transgender is a remarkable story in itself. One that deserves to be honored and value for its difference, its singular experience and journey. Wanting to be considered 100% woman erases this difference. A transgender story is not the story of a biologically born woman. Why conflate the two?

If transgenders honored their differences and valued it, they would make their own leagues and would compete among themselves. I am sure people of all orientation and gender would pay to watch them, would cheer for them and would support them.

posted January 31, 2021 01:38 PM            

I wonder if there are any transgender people who feel this way. Regardless, with the polarisation that the authorities are having to juggle on this subject, what you have suggested lightens the middle way through the two sides.

Honestly, it's not often I feel enlightened or changed by anything I read these days Belage, I can't thank you enough for posting this.

posted January 31, 2021 02:08 PM            

As someone who has marched for LGBT rights for decades, due to recent developments, I have found myself in a position I never thought I would be in, one that seems to oppose transgenders and their rights to live a full and happy life. But this is not where I am coming from.

posted February 02, 2021 12:22 PM            

George Galloway

@georgegalloway

Listen: I’m a Stonewall Award holder. In the war between Blackman and Cherry I wish they both could lose. I treat everybody as they wish to be treated. But a man does not become a woman by declaring that they are. That’s an offence against Reason. And a usurpation of actual women

posted March 28, 2021 12:32 AM            

https://youtu.be/6jy_oG4gcSw