posted April 27, 2011 05:46 PM            

Kind of a spectrum of these qualities.

This does NOT make it any less dangerous or damaging - only that you may have a person who is BPD'ish and maybe not full-blown BPD.

posted April 27, 2011 06:14 PM            

There is no use in trying to be honest with an emotional manipulator. You make a statement and it will be turned around. Example: I am really angry that you forgot my birthday. Response - "It makes me feel sad that you would think I would forget your birthday, I should have told you of the great personal stress I am facing at the moment - but you see I didn’t want to trouble you. You are right I should have put all this pain (don’t be surprised to see real tears at this point) aside and focused on your birthday. Sorry." Even as you are hearing the words you get the creeped out sensation that they really do NOT mean they are sorry at all - but since they’ve said the words you’re pretty much left with nothing more to say. Either that or you suddenly find yourself babysitting their angst!! Under all circumstances if you feel this angle is being played - don’t capitulate! Do not care take - do not accept an apology that feels like ******** . If it feels like ******** - it probably is. Rule number one - if dealing with an emotional blackmailer TRUST your gut. TRUST your senses. Once an emotional manipulator finds a successful maneuver - it’s added to their hit list and you’ll be fed a steady diet of this **** .

An emotional manipulator is the picture of a willing helper. If you ask them to do something they will almost always agree - that is IF they didn’t volunteer to do it first. Then when you say, "ok thanks" - they make a bunch of heavy sighs, or other non verbal signs that let you know they don’t really want to do whatever said thing happens to be. When you tell them it doesn’t seem like they want to do whatever - they will turn it around and try to make it seem like OF COURSE they wanted to and how unreasonable you are. This is a form of crazy making - which is something emotional manipulators are very good at. Rule number two - If an emotional manipulator said YES - make them accountable for it. Do NOT buy into the sighs and subtleties - if they don’t want to do it - make them tell you it up front - or just put on the walk-man headphones and run a bath and leave them to their theater.

Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of what’s been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and they’ll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality. WARNING: Emotional Manipulation is VERY Dangerous! It is very disconcerting for an emotional manipulator if you begin carrying a pad of paper and a pen and making notations during conversations. Feel free to let them know you just are feeling so "forgetful" these days that you want to record their words for posterity’s sake. The damndest thing about this is that having to do such a thing is a clear example for why you should be seriously thinking about removing yourself from range in the first place. If you’re toting a notebook to safeguard yourself - that ol’ ******** meter should be flashing steady by now!

Guilt. Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers. They can make you feel guilty for speaking up or not speaking up, for being emotional or not being emotional enough, for giving and caring, or for not giving and caring enough. Any thing is fair game and open to guilt with an emotional manipulator. Emotional manipulators seldom express their needs or desires openly - they get what they want through emotional manipulation. Guilt is not the only form of this but it is a potent one. Most of us are pretty conditioned to do whatever is necessary to reduce our feelings of guilt. Another powerful emotion that is used is sympathy. An emotional manipulator is a great victim. They inspire a profound sense of needing to support, care for and nurture. Emotional Manipulators seldom fight their own fights or do their own dirty work. The crazy thing is that when you do it for them (which they will never ask directly for), they may just turn around and say they certainly didn’t want or expect you to do anything! Try to make a point of not fighting other people’s battles, or doing their dirty work for them. A great line is "I have every confidence in your ability to work this out on your own" - check out the response and note the ******** meter once again.

Emotional manipulators fight dirty. They don’t deal with things directly. They will talk around behind your back and eventually put others in the position of telling you what they would not say themselves. They are passive aggressive, meaning they find subtle ways of letting you know they are not happy little campers. They’ll tell you what they think you want to hear and then do a bunch of jerk off **** to undermine it. Example: "Of course I want you to go back to school honey and you know I’ll support you." Then exam night you are sitting at the table and poker buddies show up, the kids are crying the t.v. blasting and the dog needs walking - all the while "Sweetie" is sitting on their ass looking at you blankly. Dare you call them on such behavior you are likely to hear, "well you can’t expect life to just stop because you have an exam can you honey?" Cry, scream or choke ‘em - only the last will have any long-term benefits and it’ll probably wind your butt in jail.

If you have a headache an emotional manipulator will have a brain tumor! No matter what your situation is the emotional manipulator has probably been there or is there now - but only ten times worse. It’s hard after a period of time to feel emotionally connected to an emotional manipulator because they have a way of de-railing conversations and putting the spotlight back on themselves. If you call them on this behavior they will likely become deeply wounded or very petulant and call you selfish - or claim that it is you who are always in the spotlight. The thing is that even tho you know this is not the case you are left with the impossible task of proving it. Don’t bother - TRUST your gut and walk away!

Emotional manipulators somehow have the ability to impact the emotional climate of those around them. When an emotional manipulator is sad or angry the very room thrums with it - it brings a deep instinctual response to find someway to equalize the emotional climate and the quickest route is by making the emotional manipulator feel better - fixing whatever is broken for them. Stick with this type of loser for too long and you will be so enmeshed and co-dependent you will forget you even have needs - let alone that you have just as much right to have your needs met.

posted April 27, 2011 06:50 PM            

Realize, you have to LET these people in, they can't affect you if you don't let them.

There is power in being able to recognize and deflect poor behavior - saying "no".

They're a lot like vampires, that way... in that you have to invite them in...

posted April 27, 2011 08:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
I'm not convinced it's a real disorder; however, this is still great information. It would make a good seminar on manipulation...how to spot it and how to stop it.

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Sounds good to me, as long as you don't set out to change these folks. The best you can do is go no-contact...

Sociopaths are very dangerous, can tear your whole life apart...

posted April 27, 2011 10:53 PM            

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 1 - When the Demon Knocks at Your Door
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tro2U-cezqo&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 2 - Flattery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4_txHz6gQI&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 3 - Grandiosity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpzYlYCBkVU&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 4 - Them "Smirking" Eyes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6726tAFZSs&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 5 - Bogus Internet Support Predators

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwvWOI3rEbE&feature=channel_video_title

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 6 - Key Traits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7v7GFA0fUM&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 7 - Look After Yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0-KuTcfBOk&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 8 - Gaslighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvOWX_5b1JA&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 11 - No Cure and No Hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-HWl6o7d0&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 18 - The Bigger Picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-DmXynOcY&NR=1

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 19 - Terms and Condition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvF1S5i2E8A&feature=related

Labyrinth of the Psychopath 20 - Psychopaths and their Fears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irNz0A6IrsY&feature=related

posted April 27, 2011 10:56 PM            

Spot a Narcissist or a Psychopath on Your First Date
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP9JShyXAc&feature=related

I suggest shuffling through the rest of his youtube videos, as they are helpful.

posted May 03, 2011 01:38 PM            

I haven't posted my story because I was suddenly hit with a three day migraine and I am having relationship problems with my sweet pea.

I love you all...today I actually get the chance to tell you my story; it will arrive shortly. Can anyone tell me how to post a chart on here from astrodienst?

posted May 03, 2011 02:30 PM            

quote:

---

I am looking at myself.WHAT would make me be attracted to someone like that when another person would not?
That is the only question,in a way,and the hardest one

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posted May 03, 2011 02:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Speaking for myself,only,love is mixed with pain,fear ,punishment,humiliation and abuse

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posted May 03, 2011 11:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thank you PS
Some crazy girls friendship is really helping

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Sounds like a nice girl I'm sure you'll have to do all the hard work, though.

posted May 09, 2011 12:18 AM            

love and light...

Ami Anne-thank you for the kind comment and the heart! Your message warmed my soul May I send one back?

I would like to post my chart if someone could please advise me on how to do so... I thought all the astrology nerds might be interested in looking at my chart after reading my story.

I will be as brief as possible but will use several posts to relate the whole thing.

I am a 21 year old female. My basic placements are:

Sun/Moon-Cancer 8th House
Ascendant-Sagittarius
Mars/Venus-Leo 8th House
Mercury/Jupiter-Gemini 7th House
Saturn/Uranus/Neptune-Capricorn 1st House
Pluto-Scorpio 11th House
Chiron-Cancer
True Node-Aquarius 3rd House

I was born to a double Aries mother and an Aries father. My father was an intensely violent man, both physically and emotionally. My parents were very untraditional-I was a planned pregnancy but was conceived out of wedlock and after a very brief romance. My father left ficially when I was 2.5 years old.

"Where's Bad Daddy?"-First Part

posted May 19, 2011 11:38 AM            

PS, that is very interesting information you posted. I appreciate your knowledge and I know you speak from experience and how much you have learnt from it. Thanks

posted June 01, 2011 09:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I am looking at myself.WHAT would make me be attracted to someone like that when another person would not?
That is the only question,in a way,and the hardest one

---

I can relate to this Ami Anne, that is the question for me. My story briefly:

I'm at the end of a long drawnout break up with a guy I believe is a psychopath. There was huge manipulation, twisted words, mean and cruel sadistic behaviour, no empathy only power, control and abuse. In the end I kept an exercise book whereby I would write discussions/arguments down because I couldn't understand how he could really believe things occurred in the way he would relay them *crazy making*. He was a violent, aggressive and horrible man... it was all about his infintile pain that he wished to purge onto me. I am still unwinding the event mentally and emotionally, but I am away from him now, and have my life on track. I moved in with him because I thought it was a new chance at love (my last partner, 5/6 years previously had died (drowning), and only a month before this occurred, I had didcovered he had been cheating on me in the most awful way for a year! I thought I would never recover from that - meet someone new that I could trust). I also have the big C. I moved in with this guy with the tender words of "the focus must be on you getting well, I will support you while you do this". It was only a matter of weeks before I realised I was in a bad situation. It took me two years to get away, always keeping under the radar, and one step ahead of him.

Anyways....... I am now in a group therapy with approx 8 other girls for domestic violence. WE SAW A DVD YESTERDAY on a domestic violence situation where the man was horrible cruel to the women. BUT, the thing is - I DIDN'T GET IT. In my eyes, he was a bit eccentric, sure, maybe with a few problems too but, it seemed a NORMAL and mild situation to me. Not at all perfect mind you, but, I don't see how a relationship could be any better than what I saw on the DVD. In this way normal as relationships are a bit "funny" and never ideal. It was sure hell better that what I had just been through!!

So, yes, as the facilitators of my group say, for some(the victims), the alarm bells just don't go off.

I now wonder how I must've seemed to him. Did he think I was so worthless? How do I look to others? Pathetic? Weak? Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a doormat by any means; I speak up for sure -I'm a strong woman. I have strong character and moral/ethical radar, I am career driven (building own business), and well read, I'm active and positive, critical minded(not critical), and wouldn't seem to be a pushover at all.... or so I wouldn't think(??)

I don't know how this happened to me

I'm not looking for sympathy, and I don't blame myself, I just see now (or don't see) the discrepancy of how I see myself and perhaps how others see me. Hopw can I feel confident to navigate through the world if I cannot see myself, or project myself accurately??

I will start a thread on this one day soon.

I will be sooo careful next time anyhow. And yes as Plutosquared says - LET THEM FILL IN THE GAPS.

Plutosquared you got that from the Cass site *cool*!!