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Author Topic:   In Denial About Puffing Reefer and The Pothead Lifestyle
NativelyJoan
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Posts: 1098
From: New England
Registered: Sep 2011

posted February 04, 2012 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Roots, "The Hypnotic"

"Fightin the feelin I'm concealin apparently I first appealin,
Later revealin to be deeper - resistance increasingly weaker,
The essence of life is more than just mic's and puffin reefa."

I have a dilemma. I'm trying to understand the place of weed in our society and the societal obsession. This is a controversial topic and for that reason I posted this in Sweet Peas. I've had way to many friends head down the road of recreational pot use, which acted in each situation as a gate way drug to more serious substances such as crystal meth, acid, cocaine and hallucinogens. All of their lives fell to pieces. A couple of them ended up in the hospital and to this day need intensive therapy and one tried to commit suicide. I'm just trying to understand what leads some people to excessively use pot and live their lives in denial that they've made a lifestyle choice to use this drug recreationally which may act as a gateway to other more dangerous drugs.

Many of my friends who use pot recreationally are very out of touch with reality and have repressed emotionally and psychological problems that they've refused to deal with. Growing up in broken homes, dealing with parents that had a history of substance abuse, parental neglect, peer pressure and the list goes on. I've never met a group of people more in denial and willing to blame their own crippling issues on other people, while continuing to use substances as a way to neglect dealing with life. I'm not concerned with the presumed spiritual benefits of using pot or assumed health benefits, that's up for further interpretation and more conclusive scientific research and sufficient data, however I'm more concerned with how the use of pot correlates to denial and an inability to deal with psychological and emotional distress.

For those of you who are users or who have in the past used pot or even those of you who aren't users, please explain what led you into making that decision and be honest about how that decision has impacted your life. Whatever that decision maybe. I'm looking for incisive responses, that go beyond weed makes you feel good, and it might offer access to enlightenment. Let's get real about this illegal drug and it's impact on those within our society who use or don't use it, and WHY? We are all impacted by the problems crippling the people in our society.

Here's an interesting piece I read that I thought I'd share by Nic Sheff:

"When Your Life Goes to Pot.(This recovering meth addict couldn't get through a day without smoking a little marijuana. But in the end, this "soft" drug was the hardest one for him to quit."

"Growing up in San Francisco, it honestly seemed to me like every person on the entire planet smoked pot.

Pot was easily as much a part of family gatherings and dinner parties as wine and beer. And it was way more a part of the world around me than smoking cigarettes ever were...After all, pot is natural, right? And it’s cool. I mean, everybody smokes pot. And they smoke it everywhere. Walking down the street, driving by in their cars, in movie theaters, concerts, and even restaurants. At Chateau Marmont the other day, folks were lighting up right at the next table...

On a personal level, I loved smoking pot. It made me so much less anxious and more able to deal with difficult emotions. It made me more confident. It made me actually like being by myself. Going for a walk, watching a movie, riding my bike, swimming, listening to music, watching TV, even working a job at a coffee shop or whatever—everything became like a 100 times more enjoyable...Although, of course, what goes up must come down, so the highs, for me, were accompanied by serious lows in the form of severe depression. But then I realized something else: as long as you keep on smoking pot, you don’t ever have to deal with that too much...

I only finally stopped when I met my future wife a few years ago. But even then, I didn’t do it ‘cause I wanted to (at least not at first). Basically I was just terrified she’d find out and I’d blow it—and I really didn’t want to blow this one. So I stopped. I stopped and it was f$#king hard as hell but for the longest time, I still wasn’t sure I really needed to. Because smoking pot still didn’t seem bad to me. I mean, what harm did it do?...

Despite how much a part of popular culture it is. Despite how cool Bob Marley looked smoking a spliff in some old photograph, or how glamorous it looks to see people smoking pot in movies, or on TV, or whatever...Smoking pot is a waste...I’m finally starting to see that even though pot never cost me as much as hard drugs did, it still cost me. It still f$%ked up my life. And now that I’m free of it—well, I’m f%$king grateful as hell. And I wish more than anything I could have all those years back I spent being addicted to pot...

It’s funny, you know, but it’s embarrassing say that I actually was addicted to pot. It’s more embarrassing than talking about meth or heroin, because pot seems to be so beloved by so many cool people. But the fact is, I was addicted to it. I smoked it from the ages of 11 to 27 and, though I tried to stop many times, I was never able to for more than a year. And all that time—when I was smoking weed every day (or almost every day)—I remained a child. I never grew up. I mean, in some ways I did, of course. But, emotionally, I remained stunted...

In fact, I’d been using pot to deal with my emotions for so long, I was absolutely incapable of handling any kind of conflict without it.When I was off pot, if I felt any kind of fear of rejection or if I did something wrong and upset people, I couldn’t handle it. I would go into this catatonic state where I wanted to curl up and die and disappear.

It was almost like I was spiraling down into myself and I’d be trapped there unable to communicate or anything. It was as if the fear and pain were so acute that I would simply go away—retreating into some place in me. And while I realize a lot of that has to do with my own f%$ked up mental sh#$ , pot definitely made it worse. On pot I never had to deal with anything, so I never had to learn how to cope with those kind of difficult emotions. Plus, at least according to my doctor, it f$%ked all my serotonin and dopamine[levels] up a whole lot more than it already was.

For me, all these years later, I still suffer from all the f$#king decades I lost to smoking pot. My emotional maturity is probably a little better than a 16-year-old’s (maybe)—but not a whole lot. I basically overreact to any kind of problem I have. And I definitely blame a lot of that on my years getting high...And while I guess I shouldn’t be judging those people around me that do still smoke pot, I can’t help but notice how stunted they seem to me now, too. There is a disconnection and a perpetual adolescence I see in the pothead adults I know and it is definitely not glamorous or cool or whatever. I guess, more than anything, they just don’t seem like real grownups to me. And today, I want to be an adult." (Nic Sheff columnist for The Fix) http://www.thefix.com/content/pot-addiction-6000?page=all

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"What kind of a world is this if a madman tells you, you must be ashamed of yourselves! O mother! The air is that light thing that moves around your head and becomes clearer when you laugh." Nostalgia (Domenico's speech)

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lalalinda
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posted February 04, 2012 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKgY5eOlhEc&feature=related

Out!

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PixieJane
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From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted February 04, 2012 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
societal obsession

In a nutshell, it's nature vs. control. Many people wage a war on nature. (For a rundown on this I'd suggest reading Pornagraphy and Silence which details how porn in its typical manifestation is also a war on nature and also expands in detail WHY there is this war on nature; after that, read Politics of Consciousness, too, though it focuses more on entheogens than pot or even recreational use of psychedelics but it still focuses on how it's ultimately a control issue and war on nature.)

A history of the war on pot is crucial as well, from its racist roots to Anslinger's political ambitions. The best documentary by far, IMO, is Grass, though I doubt you could ILL this as you could the 2 books I recommended. But really I believe anyone interested in the topic (even if they don't like pot) would find this vid fascinating and informative, so worth the price of getting (and you can always sell it used if you don't want to keep it, or trade it to one of your friends for a book or video they have that you'd want).

But there is more to it than that. For example, some hate pot but hate the war on it even more, and see the drug war as far more destructive than any drug, and this is related to issues of liberty as well as more pragmatic concerns.

Also, in California there's a "215" which licenses certain people with medical need to buy as much pot as they want (as opposed to getting it as a prescription as you would any other drug) and this has not only resulted in a lot more black market pot (as medical pot is better quality and believed healthier many potheads will pay extra to pay someone with a 215 to get it for them rather than get the "schwag" or crap the street dealers sometimes sell), but even leads to some (typically homeless) who will even light up in a public park in broad daylight with children around and yell at anyone who nicely asks them to not smoke that there with, "I HAVE A 215!" Needless to say that rankles a lot of people. Heck, I don't care if people smoke it but that even annoys me, and I imagine it inspires much stronger emotion in others (even if only for the belligerence and simple lack of respect, as some feel about rude tobacco smokers).

And I could go on, but that's a good start, IMO.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
which acted in each situation as a gate way drug to more serious substances such as crystal meth, acid, cocaine and hallucinogens

That's not been my experience (and I'd call the gateway drug "alcohol" myself), though I have known those who went that way. I suspect the people you know were more "out" and obsessed with their use than others you know who use it much more moderately and discreetly (and thus you don't know about their use of it).

However, when I volunteered to help the homeless I met many (maybe about half the population) who had a problem with substance abuse, though I grant if I put up with as much crap and hopelessness as some of them did I might turn to drugs, too. I can't personally relate to their despair (despite that I was a runaway in my teens, even then I didn't give in to despair). But I've seen some really horrid and pathetic behavior, and those who smoke pot (or drink alcohol) are almost always willing to use harder drugs when given the chance.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
trying to understand what leads some people to excessively use pot and live their lives in denial that they've made a lifestyle choice to use this drug recreationally which may act as a gateway to other more dangerous drugs.

I suppose if they actually THOUGHT about it then their reasoning would look something like this:

"I would share with my classmates rejection of the whole world as it is--all of it. Is there any point in studying and work? Fornication--at least that is something good. What else is there to do? Fornicate and take drugs against the terrible strain of idiots who govern the world."

Albert Szent-Györgyi, in reply to being asked what he would do if he were twenty today, in The New York Times, Feb. 20, 1970, quoted in Mary Breastead, Oh! Sex Education!, p. 359.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
very out of touch with reality and have repressed emotionally and psychological problems that they've refused to deal with. Growing up in broken homes, dealing with parents that had a history of substance abuse, parental neglect, peer pressure and the list goes on. I've never met a group of people more in denial and willing to blame their own crippling issues on other people, while continuing to use substances as a way to neglect dealing with life..

You know, with the exception of substance abuse this describes a great many people I know, including those who refrain from all legal (as well as illegal) drug use. Many people use religion this way, for example. For that matter, I've even met recovering addicts like this still (in the case of recovering alcoholics, there's even a name for them: dry drunks).

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
use of pot correlates to denial and an inability to deal with psychological and emotional distress

I can see how denial and an inability to deal with psychological and emotional distress often leads to drug use. But that's not the same as saying everyone who smokes pot fits this mold, and I'm not convinced that it does.

And I knew someone who had to use pot to keep a job and roof over her head (not that she went to work stoned) as she otherwise had hellish mood swings. She tried psyche meds but each time they made her suicidal. Only pot kept her calm, and as long as she smoked it from time to time she was stable. Never in her life before pot or off of it was she stable. So I think in her case it's good for her to have it.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
please explain what led you into making that decision and be honest about how that decision has impacted your life

I'll do that in my next post on this thread (I'm kinda tired so I don't know if I'll do it in say an hour from now or sometimes tomorrow).

ETA: This thread continues here:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000727.html

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PixieJane
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posted February 04, 2012 05:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first drug I did was beer, right around my 14th birthday (not counting when I tried alcohol as a small child as that was just a sip back then). I was in a family with a rep as rough & ready rednecks who were lower class but not to be menaced, and I in particular had managed to publicly tick off the most powerful preacher in town which not only earned me infamy but also friends who thought I must be awesome. I lived with my 17-year-old cousin Zack (himself a rep as an outlaw, the grudgingly admired kind in that redneck town) and Granny. Zack & I got invited to a kegger where we paid to get a stamp on our hand and then we could have as much beer from the kegs as we wanted (I had 2 plastic cups and got a pretty good buzz). This was in a "dry county" btw, which means it was illegal to buy & sell alcohol (though not to have it), and deputies raided it. The party was in a barn near the woods and most of us got away, Zack & I walking home on railroad tracks in the woods lit by Zack's flashlight, and if the party of drinking & dancing was fun, the raid (and our getting away) was awesome, and to this day I remember it fondly. Because of my infamy the other partiers bragged about me being there (and now I'd defied the cops just as I'd defied the preacher) and it definitely got me in with the outcasts, some of whom did drugs. Mostly we did a little pot, something Zack also did socially (and I looked up to him, even if I realized I had better sense than him, and I also wanted him to know he could trust me not to narc him out to Granny). Alcohol and drugs were something of a bonding experience, it united us in a shared secret against the authorities and thus trust and knowing I didn't look down on them (and I was curious). Luckily, Zack was protective enough that no one took too much of an advantage of me while I was intoxicated/stoned (I only got this way a few times).

Zack also invited his friends over and they made shroom tea, which I thought was gross considering they picked the shrooms out of cow dung, but everyone was drinking it and I didn't want them to think I was just a kid (they were 16 and older). The high kinda snuck up on me, they were watching Pink Floyd The Wall (IIRC) and suddenly it got too scary for me and I went outside and walked the pasture & woods having visions. When I came back people swear I was replying to their thoughts, including a sober guy who spread I had a demon in me that allowed me to read minds (rumor had it I was already a witch and one of Satan's ***** ). Then my memory is vague as I started tripping really hard. There was an argument over what music to listen to and Zack ran out with a cassette along with others and I ran with them and they took to driving recklessly while playing the tape really loud and I suppose we're lucky we didn't wreck. After we got back they put on a Cheech & Chong which I thought was utterly hilarious and after it was over they rewinded it and we all watched it again, still laughing. At some point during the movie I recall a painful tingling building up in my arm and I shook it causing several electrical-like golden sparks to go flying out and vanish into the floor without leaving a mark, but one spark fell onto my foot and it BURNED (though my sock & shoe was fine, I had a blister there that healed as a normal minor burn).

The next day the lights were too bright and I had to wear shades. I basically spent all of Sunday recovering. Oh, and I put on the Cheech & Chong movie that had been so hilarious and found it so mind boggling stupid that I couldn't watch more than a few minutes of it. About a week or so later I had about a five minute flashback in class which manifested as an intense giggle fit. The teacher was confused by my helpless giggles that I vainly tried to smother but the other kids seemed to know what was going on (but no doubt our doing shrooms was spread in that small town by the other kids).

I got pulled back to Houston over the divorce drama between my 'rents and ended up moving in with Mom who was a terrible smoker and alcoholic, and spent the child support on her vices instead of on me. Since she got it with the child support I reasoned her brandy was technically mine and I bartered it with others in exchange for food and/or a place to stay at the end of the month when there was almost no food at all and Mom was horrid as she went into her withdrawals from running out of her brandy and cigarettes. Sometimes friends wanted to share the brandy with me and I did to bond with them, to show them I could be trusted, and so they'd like me enough to let me stay over during the end of the month. I think the only thing that checked my behavior so that I didn't drink more than I did was because I didn't want to end up as pathetic as Mom and Dad (major alcoholics).

My best friend and I ended up running away and I spent 6 months on the streets (my best friend died). We joined a krew of mostly runaways which would be complicated to explain. So to sum it up I experimented with various drugs, though I didn't do much. It was fun and some good laughs, and on the streets that was a good thing, and it served to bond us together in shared, forbidden experiences. The kids who sold their bodies also typically did drugs to escape the feelings they had of doing it and kids who'd just turned a trick (and shared their money) were often given a hit of pot by sympathetic others. (However, those captured by pimps were forced on hard drugs to enslave them and to keep the public from sympathizing with them. Even though my friend smoked a lot of pot--she was even dubbed "Doob"--she wasn't able to handle the hard drugs a pimp forced her on and she died from it.) Street etiquette also dealt with a lot of sharing of alcohol and cigarettes and this sharing could buy friends & favors. And to refuse was an insult as those involved didn't hear "I don't drink/smoke/drug" they heard "I don't want anything from YOU." I learned to fake drinking by putting my tongue on the bottle as I lifted it up so I didn't get much hard liquor and with cigarettes I wouldn't inhale (which of course would be pointed out that my smoke didn't come out as a stream and I was urged to breathe it in first, but tobacco always made me feel sick so I didn't) and after a minute I'd put the cigarette out "for later" and give it to a friend who smoked later.

An example of how important it could be was like when we scammed pizza from a pizza place by one having a john call in an order (the place could tell if you called from a motel or pay phone and wouldn't accept those) for several pizzas, which when not picked up were thrown out in the dumpster still warm in their boxes. But that dumpster was claimed by a homeless man, and the homeless adults took their claims to "their" dumpster very seriously. The older kids explained to him what we'd done and agreed to share the pizzas with him and part of his accepting this was his wanting companionship by drinking & smoking with us, so he shared his booze and pot, of which I did very little (but I did partake) while he was watching me, because to not do so would be to insult him and that could make for real trouble. But the booze and pot relaxed him and the others (as well as giving us the munchies) and when the pizzas were placed in the dumpster we shared that, too, with the leftovers taken to the other runaways in our krew afterward, and the adult homeless guy continuing to be friendly toward us.

It did have its dark side, of course, and I got very lucky. My friend was captured by a pimp because she got high with the wrong people who sold her to him. As for me an adult who wasn't really part of our krew but on the streets (he must've been between 18-21 because he had no problem staying at Covenant House, which we couldn't do without our parents and police being notified) met me and offered me a joint. I figured it was just killing time and harmless so being polite I took a few hits, but I realized something was wrong. He tried to lead me away and I resisted, though I knew I wasn't going to resist much longer because I couldn't think straight at all but luckily other krew members showed up and chased him off saying he'd been known to drug girls and rape them. Meanwhile I started hallucinating among other things and I can only guess there was PCP in that joint. I also experienced some blackouts hours long and I'm glad I was with my krew to tell me what I'd done (apparently I was mostly quiet and boring) or otherwise I'd have always wondered what I'd done.

Circumstances were such that I returned home shortly after turning 16 and the school placed me in ABC (Adaptive Behavior Class) where there was some drinking and light drug use. ABC had some hardcore anti-drug propaganda that included lies and the response was to dismiss the real dangers along with the false dangers and not pay attention to what the teachers had to say on the subject. I got sent to the office once because after telling us how drugs destroyed motivation I asked (genuinely curious figuring there had to be SOME explanation) "why do you make students test for drugs before allowing them on the sports teams and honor roll then?" The teachers never answered my question. We also saw really stupid commercials like from the Partnership for a Drug-Free America, like one that showed surgeons getting stoned before operating with asking, "Still think marijuana should be legal?" We're friggin kids and we saw how idiotic that was. It could just as "legitimately" show them downing whiskey before surgery and asking, "Still think alcohol should be legal?" This inspired contempt in us for them and sometimes taking drugs just became even more enjoyable as it was a way to spit in the faces of the adults who lied to us (sex was a similar problem for the same reason). In any case we dismissed all warnings for the same reason why the boy who cried wolf got dismissed even when there really was a wolf.

That lasted until I ran away again just before the school year ended and caught rides to California, finally getting in a car full of Deadheads who smoked a lot of pot, and I smoked it with them. They were nice and we were lucky, but they were some hardcore stoners (though they didn't do much beyond pot, not even alcohol). We stopped in a very beautiful area well known for its local pot (and heavy pot use) and found the pot more potent than I'd ever experienced. TV became fascinating, and music was BEAUTIFUL, so awesome it brought tears to my eyes. We laughed and laughed. For a couple of months I was stoned nearly 24/7, and my memories are vague of the time. I have some surreal recollections, like once we went to pick up a guy for a party to find nobody home, and being stoned we just walked in and went to his room to wait for him to show up and started listening to his music. At some point the phone rang, and being stoned out of my mind I answered it without any thought to what I was doing. It turned out to be the guy we'd gone to pick up who was only a few blocks from the party (in another town) we were supposed to take him to and he really wanted us to pick him up because the cops were looking for him. Something was weird about this and I finally asked, "Dude, how did you know to call your own room to get us?" "I don't know." And one I cringe at was when some of us had the munchies while out and went to get a pizza but every time one of us tried to order we'd all break out into laughter. The lady there had the patience of a saint and we finally got to order. But it was fun to laugh so freely and hard like that. As hazy as those memories are, I do value them. And no, the hardcore potheads normally did not get into meth (some utterly despised this drug and those who used it) or other hard drugs, and though psychedelics were used, they were pretty rare (and I'd never had any offered to me, at least not for free).

This, too, had a dark side. As it turned into October and I began having my October nightmares which prevented me from getting enough sleep and the pot didn't help my awareness, sense, or intuition (which was normally so fine tuned that some believed I was psychic--it wasn't just that one guy who said I read his mind with the power of demons that thought so). I ended up going home with the wrong person which led to me being bound, imprisoned, repeatedly raped, terrorized, and I still have a scar on my neck to this day from where my neck was slashed and blood drunk (and that sure didn't help my future October nightmares...) I managed to wear the ropes I was tied with away rubbing them against a shelf corner (this took HOURS) and got out of there, though I was (despite lack of sleep, the first time I'd been sober in months, loss of blood, and trauma) able to think pretty clearly and thumbed north (the one who held me prisoner would assume I'd head south) and from there I ended up meeting people who'd change my life. For awhile I only very rarely did alcohol or pot or any other drug and returned to my usual sobriety.

I got into the occult which included in exploring altered states of consciousness, and later, after I left at 18, that included using entheogens as a "psychonaut or "psychedelic shaman." I'd really gotten into raves and free parties and though not everyone used drugs, many did, and so I had plenty of opportunities to experiment with a lot of people telling me how these drugs opened doors of new consciousness and I was exposed directly and indirectly to the philosophy of Terrence McKenna (and being a fan of Robert Anton Wilson I was further encouraged to experiment as I admired him and his mind). I could share a lot of experiences as these weren't just to get high they were to explore myself but I'm getting tired. But I think the primary thing that encouraged me was I often felt so certain I'd understood EVERYTHING while tripping, yet as I sobered up that understanding slipped away to my frustration and making me want a return of that feeling. Finally I had the idea to have sober friends interview and record me with a pocket recorder, and upon hearing myself I realized I hadn't reached enlightenment, I was just a blathering idiot, the feeling a delusion, and I stopped using them as I knew too many people who used way too many psychedelics and I didn't want to end up like them. I also tried E (and once E and LSD) and this was so good that I stopped as I realized that WAS a drug I could get addicted to as the love and trust were so overwhelming and it allowed me to connect with others that I found it hard to do as cynical and cautious I'd gotten about people. I was aware that the feeling was a chemical illusion so I didn't act on my feelings when I realized it could bring me danger, but it felt so good to embrace people, even strangers, with such love in my heart for them and the world (I even got into a cuddle puddle where I and several others, many of whom were complete strangers, were hugging each other in ecstasy and love). So I stopped the E as well.

I also found that the consciousness altering techniques I'd learned when studying the occult worked much better than drugs and also allowed me to retain control of my mind and body, and dancing could even inspire a drug like ecstasy that while not anywhere as intense as E allowed me a greater awareness of both the world and within and allowed me to better critically assess people and the situation. And at that point, by age 20 I'd pretty much stopped completely. (I did try salvia a couple of times after but it didn't do anything for me.) I did minimal drinking save during the holidays when I allow myself to drink (and rarely pot) a lot more, typically in social situations. And that's pretty much how I've been since. With the exception of last summer I haven't done pot in almost 10 years, and I've never done hard drugs like meth or cocaine.

This last summer I visited family while Granny was in the hospital (and a little after she got back) and at one point a cousin gave me some rice krispy treats made with ganja butter. I told him I hadn't touched pot in several years but he really wanted me to try them and tell him what I thought so I said I would, and figured given the hellacious summer Texas was having and the constant pestering of why I wasn't married to a man with children yet and other arguments & stressors that it might make for a nice break. I finally took them to my mom (as I really wanted to enjoy her AC as Granny's place only had fans and it was close to a 110F/43 Celsius, this being in the heat wave that preceded the horrid wildfires) who I hadn't really had much to do with in 12 years and she eagerly tried them with me and she shared her peach brandy. For the first time in so many years we were laughing and close and everything was so beautiful (and her AC was heaven). Unfortunately after we sobered up she went back to being distant again.

And so that's about it. Questions?

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RegardesPlatero
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posted February 04, 2012 05:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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PixieJane
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posted February 04, 2012 05:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So you weren't looking to understand, you were looking for validation and to preach. I wish I'd known that before I shared what I did so I wouldn't have wasted my time.

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NativelyJoan
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posted February 04, 2012 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
So you weren't looking to understand, you were looking for validation and to preach. I wish I'd known that before I shared what I did so I wouldn't have wasted my time.

Whoa. I was definitely not looking for validation. I'm so sorry you feel that way, I thought I made that clear in my OP discussing personal experiences with my past friends. Thank you for your honest and insightful response. I really do want to understand. I'm not sure why you reached that assumption and I apologize if that wasn't clear. I would have posted this in GU but I knew it was a controversial topic and sensitive issue so instead I posted it here. If that makes it seem biased, again that was not my intention. I'm honestly trying to get to a place of understanding, strictly. I have nothing to validate, because I'm on the fence about this drug. I'm frustrated and maybe that's why you made that assumption because of the destructive role that this drug has played in the lives of my friends, but that's simply just frustration and if anything it's encourages my interest in order to understand more.

Personally, I'm on the fence about marijuana and it's influences. I'm a major skeptic with everything and a few board of health research tests and scientific studies are unfortunately not enough to convince me for or against the positive or negative impacts of this drug. I'm trying to understand why it has such a place in our society and the effects it has on those who use it and the decisions that were apart of why some do use it and others don't, regardless of scientific research studies.

I really do appreciate you're honesty and I definitely have questions if you'll allow me to further interpret your response and give my honest assessment. Hopefully we can all move further along in our understanding of marijuana and it's place in our culture.

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NativelyJoan
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From: New England
Registered: Sep 2011

posted February 04, 2012 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lalalinda:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKgY5eOlhEc&feature=related

Out!


Thanks for sharing that lalalinda. I actually don't have an opinion on whether I think it should be legal or illegal, but again thanks for sharing. My post wasn't about the ethics surrounding it's legality but the role it plays in our culture and society. But I do appreciate having another perspective in favor of legalizing it. It gives me something else to further ponder.

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NativelyJoan
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From: New England
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posted February 04, 2012 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
...Mom who was a terrible smoker and alcoholic, and spent the child support on her vices instead of on me. Since she got it with the child support I reasoned her brandy was technically mine and I bartered it with others in exchange for food and/or a place to stay at the end of the month when there was almost no food at all and Mom was horrid as she went into her withdrawals from running out of her brandy and cigarettes. Sometimes friends wanted to share the brandy with me and I did to bond with them, to show them I could be trusted, and so they'd like me enough to let me stay over during the end of the month. I think the only thing that checked my behavior so that I didn't drink more than I did was because I didn't want to end up as pathetic as Mom and Dad (major alcoholics).

Do you think in a sense you inherited some of their patterns through growing up in an environment where usage was abundant? Do you think that using was a way for you to distance yourself from the pain you felt growing up in that kind of environment? Or would you say your usage was a result of strictly personal preference and not related to the experience of being exposed to substance abuse at such a young age and throughout your childhood?

quote:
So to sum it up I experimented with various drugs, though I didn't do much. It was fun and some good laughs, and on the streets that was a good thing, and it served to bond us together in shared, forbidden experiences. The kids who sold their bodies also typically did drugs to escape the feelings they had of doing it and kids who'd just turned a trick (and shared their money) were often given a hit of pot by sympathetic others...It did have its dark side, of course, and I got very lucky.

What is your personal perspective in regards to the underbelly of the street lifestyle you describe with usage and it's impact on your life and our culture as a whole? Do you think it's a reflection of the dysfunctions in our society or the drugs themselves? Or is it both?

quote:
ABC had some hardcore anti-drug propaganda that included lies and the response was to dismiss the real dangers along with the false dangers and not pay attention to what the teachers had to say on the subject. I got sent to the office once because after telling us how drugs destroyed motivation I asked (genuinely curious figuring there had to be SOME explanation) "why do you make students test for drugs before allowing them on the sports teams and honor roll then?" The teachers never answered my question. We also saw really stupid commercials like from the Partnership for a Drug-Free America...This inspired contempt in us for them and sometimes taking drugs just became even more enjoyable as it was a way to spit in the faces of the adults who lied to us (sex was a similar problem for the same reason). In any case we dismissed all warnings for the same reason why the boy who cried wolf got dismissed even when there really was a wolf.

Where did the idea come from that by engaging in substance usage you were in a sense challenging authorities? Is it because they were illegal? For example in some cultures, certain substances are a part of their cultural practices and for them it's something they'd just do in daily life. Do you think being apart of the American culture or the Western world had an impact on your views in relation to drug usage and why you felt by engaging you were in a sense challenge society and the system itself? I only ask because the only way to change a system is to challenge it, however it's what you do or don't do that makes a difference, you know. Did the lies and propaganda against drug usage directly influence the way you viewed drugs as a user and why you choose to continue to engage in usage? Or was maybe the anger at the lies and false propaganda of drug use a way to cover up deeper issues you had within yourself which somehow allowed you to justify that lifestyle? I'm just trying to draw a line between where we as people end and societies influence begins. How much is it the responsibility of the person and how much is it the fault or failure of our society to take responsibility for distorting the truth. I apologize for being so candid, let me know if I've crossed the line.

quote:
For a couple of months I was stoned nearly 24/7, and my memories are vague of the time...And one I cringe at was when some of us had the munchies while out and went to get a pizza but every time one of us tried to order we'd all break out into laughter. The lady there had the patience of a saint and we finally got to order. But it was fun to laugh so freely and hard like that. As hazy as those memories are, I do value them.

Why in particular would you say you valued these experiences. Is it because you wouldn't have shared them in a sober state because it went against your natural tendencies to be so expressive or was it simply the unity you were able to feel with others because you were allowing yourself to be free in a sense or more open? I'd love to know, it's fascinating that you say that.

quote:
I also found that the consciousness altering techniques I'd learned when studying the occult worked much better than drugs and also allowed me to retain control of my mind and body, and dancing could even inspire a drug like ecstasy that while not anywhere as intense as E allowed me a greater awareness of both the world and within and allowed me to better critically assess people and the situation...I did minimal drinking save during the holidays when I allow myself to drink (and rarely pot) a lot more, typically in social situations. And that's pretty much how I've been since. With the exception of last summer I haven't done pot in almost 10 years, and I've never done hard drugs like meth or cocaine.

I'm guessing the occult techniques that you learned were similar to Shamanic practices and rituals that help alter consciousness, which I practice as well. I've practiced auto-hypnosis for some time, without the use of any substance. It's definitely helped me connect with a level of awareness that I'm unable to touch had I not altered my state of consciousness through self hypnosis. The mind is endlessly fascinating.

Thank you for revealing this intimate portrait of your history with this particular substance. It has really expanded my mind to the experiences of those directly engaged in usage. Reading your intimate story was touching and scary, and I'm so happy that today your safe and okay and use those experiences as a way to evolve as a person and enlighten others. Everything happens for a reason, things that are blissful, beautiful, haunting and tragic. I truly appreciate what you had to say, PixieJane. You've really helped me in trying to get to the root of the people behind the image and lifestyle by being so honest and open. Thank you.

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amowls**
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posted February 04, 2012 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls**     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I'm just trying to understand what leads some people to excessively use pot and live their lives in denial that they've made a lifestyle choice to use this drug recreationally which may act as a gateway to other more dangerous drugs.

Well you know, you could say that actually ALCOHOL is the gateway drug to most other drugs.

Anyway, the first time I drank I was 14.

The first time I smoked pot I was 15.

When I was 17/18 I tried MDMA for the first time. Best experience ever.

18/19 I tried 2ce/2ct2/2ct21, which are all cousins of LSD.

When I was 21 I took a bump of coke, but that's the only time I've ever done it.

I drink on the weekends, maybe have like 3-5 drinks at a time. I get drunk but not wasted. I smoke pot occasionally, but not every day and I never buy it for myself. I don't mind experimenting with drugs, as you can see. I have a moderate personality as it is so I've never felt like my drug use was going to spiral out of control. I also only do drugs in social settings, as in I don't drink or smoke weed by myself (and all of the times I've done the crazier stuff, I was with my friends).

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NativelyJoan
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From: New England
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posted February 04, 2012 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Amowls**:
I also only do drugs in social settings, as in I don't drink or smoke weed by myself (and all of the times I've done the crazier stuff, I was with my friends).

What do you think is the primary motivation or reasoning for your personal decision to engage in pot usage? Peer pressure? Curiosity? How has it impacted your life? Have you made more connections or friends, have you lost friends? Does your family know about this element of your life and if they do has that had any effect on the relationships you have with them? And does this element within your lifestyle impact whom you decide to start relationships with? Answer at your discretion and if these questions are too invasive you don't have to answer them. Thank you for sharing.

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sand
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posted February 05, 2012 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my last hit of anything was in college which was 6 years ago. i do drink still but i'm careful with that coz my chinese chart says it's a possibility in chart during certain decades. i do believe that. i certainly am very very hedonistic.

i liked the social aspect of it actually. smoking up with friends was fun and everyone being chill is awesome. only reason i don't do it is coz i want to achieve things and i didn't like the feeling i got the last time i did it. not hallucinations or something in my tummy. just that i should be doing something more productive iz all..

i mean no offense but i also don't want to be old and be doing something i used to do in high school.

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sand
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posted February 05, 2012 05:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...

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NativelyJoan
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posted February 05, 2012 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sand:
i liked the social aspect of it actually. smoking up with friends was fun and everyone being chill is awesome. only reason i don't do it is coz i want to achieve things and i didn't like the feeling i got the last time i did it. not hallucinations or something in my tummy. just that i should be doing something more productive iz all..

i mean no offense but i also don't want to be old and be doing something i used to do in high school.


Thanks for sharing Sand. You're situation seems to be the case for many college students who did pot socially in college and quit or tamed their use after graduation. For some pot usage might be one of those there's a time and place situations. Similar to drinking excessively in college or high school, it's a situational thing that eventually becomes too much of distraction from things that really matter in life or maybe not, who knows, it is a personal decision.

So based on what you wrote would you say that smoking pot became a bit of distraction from the things you wanted to accomplish in your life? You sort of reached the point where it wasn't really adding redeeming value to your life and therefore it made sense to cut down your use or stop completely? Answer at your own discretion and with what you feel comfortable sharing.

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sand
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posted February 05, 2012 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sand     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
you know it might have been anxiety looking back now.. maybe i've never felt that before or knew what it was and my state of mind has always been pretty calm and receptive to something like smoking pot. i'm still anxious about the same things now so maybe that's why i haven't touched the stuff. i dunno..

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amowls**
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posted February 06, 2012 12:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls**     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
What do you think is the primary motivation or reasoning for your personal decision to engage in pot usage? Peer pressure? Curiosity? How has it impacted your life? Have you made more connections or friends, have you lost friends? Does your family know about this element of your life and if they do has that had any effect on the relationships you have with them? And does this element within your lifestyle impact whom you decide to start relationships with? Answer at your discretion and if these questions are too invasive you don't have to answer them. Thank you for sharing.

Curiosity. No one has ever peer pressured me into doing drugs (I don't really do peer pressure as I am a natural contrarian anyway).

It hasn't really impacted my life at all. I'd say alcohol figures more prominently in my life, but that's because it's more accessible. I smoke pot maybe once a month (even less now... I don't think I've smoked pot in 3 months).

My parents know I smoke weed, I've never hid it from them. My dad was a huge weedhead back in the day, he only quit because he gets drug tested for his job regularly (he works for the federal government) so now he's an (functioning) alcoholic instead. My uncle (dad's brother) is an even bigger weedhead. I've smoked with him a few times. My mom's not really into it but she doesn't really understand it (I think she thinks Reefer Madness is an accurate portrayal of pot) because she grew up in a country that regularly hangs people who smoke weed (not just selling). I drink with my parents often, too. I don't really tell them about the harder stuff I've tried because I don't need them to lecture me.

I haven't lost or made any connections with friends via weed/drugs. There have been instances where I just don't feel like smoking or drinking but I still hang out with my friends while they do it. It's not a big deal. I don't do it enough for it to be annoying (I hate "weed culture," you know, those people who listen to sh*tty music with blacklights and fuzzy posters and wear Bob Marley tshirts). I actually have a few straight edge (people who don't drink, smoke, do drugs) friends. Drugs are always secondary to hanging out.

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PixieJane
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posted February 06, 2012 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Do you think in a sense you inherited some of their patterns through growing up in an environment where usage was abundant?

Mixed. I think being exposed to it my entire life desensitized it for me so that I just didn't see it as that big of a deal. OTOH, I didn't want to become like them and that checked my behavior to a point (for a long while I wouldn't even watch that much TV because I didn't want to be a couch potato like others I saw). I didn't drink or drug to escape pain because typically (especially with alcohol) it increased what I felt (good or bad), so if I felt depressed then drinking would only make me even more depressed.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Where did the idea come from that by engaging in substance usage you were in a sense challenging authorities?

I'm sure drugs being illegal does glamorize them to an extent, especially given the differences where alcohol use is accepted among kids in other countries so kids being puking drunk there are seen as embarrassment where in countries like the USA they're seen as cool because they're thumbing their noses at the authorities and (laughably) behaving "more adult" (since it's considered a strictly adult activity).

But as for the sense of challenging authorities, that not only came from their being illegal, but adults lying to us about them. Had they been honest and reasonable many of us--certainly myself--would've taken them much more seriously. But when they said things that were so stupid as to insult our intelligence as well as things we knew weren't true, that made us hostile and angry not only at them, but also to their message.

Btw, such antidrug propaganda can create contempt in adults as well. I knew a Russian grandmother transplanted to the USA and didn't speak very good English. After seeing some ads from the Partnership for a Drug Free America she panicked and called their line wanting to know what this evil drug was that her grand kids were being exposed to. After awhile she realized what it was and laughed and mocked them saying that grew wild and she'd smoked that growing up, too. (She also thought Americans were babies about alcohol and tobacco, too.)

Though as for me personally, I didn't seek out drugs, but I was willing to share pot and alcohol with friends when they provided them. If I was with mostly (or only) with guys I'd refuse saying, "I don't trust myself" (more polite than saying, "I don't trust YOU"), and I got away with that, and for harder drugs I was able to get away with "that's too hard for me." Perhaps my being a girl allowed me some latitude (I'm sure a guy would be called a "pussy" for saying things like that), but since I did pot they could figure I wouldn't turn them in without putting myself at risk for being busted for my own drug use.

quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Why in particular would you say you valued these experiences

It was fun and I laughed a lot and the beauty I experienced was so intense that I can see why others choose to live it as a lifestyle as opposed to my experimentation, and I value understanding other points of views that would otherwise be incomprehensible to me. And, of course, I had some good laughs, even if I cringe a little looking back on it. And given that I was a homeless runaway at the time, it could've been A LOT worse...

I'll answer another question in the next post as it requires a much longer answer.

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PixieJane
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posted February 06, 2012 01:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
What is your personal perspective in regards to the underbelly of the street lifestyle you describe with usage and it's impact on your life and our culture as a whole? Do you think it's a reflection of the dysfunctions in our society or the drugs themselves? Or is it both?

My experiences on the streets made me wary of hard drugs like meth and crack, of which I'd seen all too many addicts of, and even people who tried it for the first time made sure I didn't want to mess with it. Hearing how some meth junkies talked lovingly about having to sit on the toilet to shoot up because they might either throw up or crap themselves really turned me off from trying it, because how in the hell does that become fun (as opposed to a drawback)? I also didn't like that these drugs were forced on others by pimps to control their stables (and the idea reminded me of when I was locked in a mental hospital having powerful drugs forced on me).

The college students (mostly jocks) sometimes came out partying looking to beat up or rape some "street trash" and they were typically liquored up and sometimes looked for illegal drugs as well (though not pot that I recall, usually college students wanted something to pick them up rather than calm them down). Drug-related violence was common there, but usually only got commented on when some rich kids got hurt (like once some high schoolers from an upper middle class neighborhood tried to get some drugs for a party in progress and drive away without paying got themselves shot up as a result), though that was true of other violence as well (like one of the rare times the violence in the area was highlighted by the media was when a college jock tried to rape a 13-year-old runaway and she stabbed him with a switchblade and ran, and the mother of the jock was on the news wondering why the cops didn't clean the area up so her son could rape without fear--well, she left the last part out of course).

I can understand why street kids did drugs, but why were so many college students out there doing the drugs, too? I can see how some wanted drugs to help stay awake for all the studying & working (and probably partying) they did, but many were definitely living self-destructive lifestyles for no discernible reason or gain that I could see despite the advantages they had but apparently didn't appreciate. Perhaps it's the same reason as those who came looking for easy or cheap sex, it feels good and it's all about immediate gratification without thought of what tomorrow may bring. In any case, there's a HUGE market for sex and drugs, and many set themselves up to sell it to those with the money. And there's A LOT of crossover between the various criminal enterprises (though meth is--or at least was back in the 90s--generally seen as too risky so that most drug dealers either didn't sell meth at all, or sold meth exclusively typically as a user as well as seller, but that's only generally true in my observation, and I think the Mexican drug gangs today sell meth along with many other drugs).

The place where my best friend died imprisoned by a pimp was also connected to a fence. That fence took stolen goods my krew gained and paid in drugs which were then sold by my krew (typically the older boys, though there was one as young as 13 who moved a lot, but girls were too likely to be robbed or ripped off, and the only 2 girls who sold drugs had their own connections independent of the boys). The one time I helped in a burglary it turned out we broke into a meth lab (the joys of committing crimes in a high crime area...) and the others ran. Having overcome so much fear to do what I did (I, being very small, was made to crawl through a small window and let the others in through the back door) I wasn't going to leave empty handed so I grabbed a machine pistol (in retrospect I believe was a MAC-11) I saw on the floor and the guy who led us sold it to the fence claiming he'd stolen it (IIRC, he got $50 of pot in exchange for it, a major rip off). The fence forcibly kidnapped girls who showed up for a pimp so I couldn't be there and he just claimed he'd taken it. As it turned out the fence knew the meth dealer and sold him back his gun and the meth dealer in turn was looking for the guy who had the temerity to steal from him so that our "fearless leader" (as I liked to call him after he fled the meth lab) fled back to California.

And the pimp who killed my friend was connected to the powers that be as well...the place the girls were kept was actually owned by a rich lawyer with influence in the city government which was at least part of why the police left it alone (and going to the cops wasn't an option) and I heard from a former prisoner that not only did the lawyer who owned it get virginal preteen girls given to him from time to time in exchange for his protection, but girls (many underage) in the stable were provided for special parties for cops, lawyers, even local judges and politicians. Interesting enough the place was raided immediately after the lawyer who owned the property died.

And because it was protected, a lot of fencing went on there and thus drugs spread into the community while of course drugs were also used to enslave the imprisoned girls so that no one would sympathize with them (thinking they got themselves on hard drugs like that) and keep them dependent (and even when they escaped they knew many of the other street dealers that an escaped girl might go to). And that former prisoner who told me what went on in there showed me the scar where she was shot in the leg with a .22 pistol as a lesson not to run...and she was caught because she was busted trying to buy drugs to help relieve the addiction she was forced on at gun point while a prisoner and when she was released from jail there were 2 guys waiting for her who took her back to her pimp (that is, someone among the deputies let the pimp know, possibly even arranging to release her at the pimp's convenience). Of course the pimps provide fake ID for the kids and keep them easily found so on "vice nights" the cops had no trouble rounding many prostitutes up who were given the same fine as a group and released (raising the money by turning more tricks, thus turning the city itself into a pimp). Of course drugs were necessary (and thus use was made mandatory) to keep many of the girls in line so that they could be used at parties of the elites and as a source of revenue for the city via "fines" as well as discrediting anything they might say ("druggies will say anything, maybe even believe it...") and destroy any sympathy ("why should I help you, you're just a drug addict").

More specifically, the cops had undercover among the drug dealers, but this promoted stability for drug buyers. Short and sweet, they'd make friends with a few dealers who'd point out the competition (and there was at least one cop who had an arrangement with the boys in my krew who sold the drugs, and I saw him successfully order 2 cops to leave us alone once, so he had some rank on him, presumably a sergeant since they called him "sarge"). This led to many busts for the cops so they looked good while clearing the field for their chosen drug dealers and making sure the dealers thus stayed in business as they were allowed to operate with relative impunity and with less competition. Likewise, social bonds often formed between cops and dealers with exchange of gifts and even cops getting on drugs. This blurring of the lines between cops and drug dealers got so bad that in a surrounding town a boy on a bike was killed and it came out that he was killed by a deputy after he'd stumbled across a plane bringing in drugs with the local deputies helping.

The DEA is constantly losing "evidence" (ie, drugs) as well as "misplacing" their guns (guns and armor-piercing ammo illegal for civilians to use that are no doubt being sold on the streets to drug dealers and the like), and of course the DEA helps dealers launder money (again, such programs help select dealers while going after their competition). I suspect the crack downs on drug store sales to prevent meth production (which has utterly failed to stop it) was to make it more profitable for the Mexican gangs who in turn pay bribes and other protection money to government and law enforcement officials (very much like how a Texas politician voted for Prohibition and then became a bootlegger after alcohol was illegal, that is the goal was to create a profitable black market). I vaguely recall how a former DEA agent was put on death row in the early 90s for shooting a Houston cop and the DEA guy claimed he'd been let go for trying to blow the whistle on the DEA corruption and in trying to gather evidence of corruption that allowed the flow of drugs onto the streets among the cops he got in a shootout with a dirty cop that left the cop dead. Of course the cops said the former DEA guy was a paranoid schizophrenic (though he still went to death throw for cop killing despite being officially insane), but from what I've seen I think he's very believable and probably both sane & honest (and executed by now).

But as for which comes first, social dysfunction or drugs, I can't say, that's too much of a chicken or the egg question, and I suspect they feed each other. For example I knew a homeless guy who was a major heroin addict. He started off in his youth on pot and may have stayed with that but he was busted for it during the Vietnam War and was forced into the military over it. After a second pot bust he was shipped to Vietnam where the soldiers did a lot of drugs (it actually sounds to me like the soldiers did at least as many drugs as the hippies if not more so--"shotgunning" was said to have come from a method on how soldiers would smoke pot on the front lines). To top it off he had some very traumatic experiences, the most notable was he claimed to have taken part in the slaughter of a village of innocents. He'd fired because he was ordered to and assumed there was danger, but then found they'd killed mostly elderly, children, and women, with his commander claiming the village was giving support to the enemy, and he then had to help bury with them with lye or some such and keep quiet about it. Right after some soldiers introduced him to heroin to help "deal with it" and thus started his habit (I understand the Vietnam War did a lot to increase heroin addiction in the US). This haunted him and his nightmares after he came back, and when he got married and had children of his own the guilt of massacring families ate him up alive. He found everyone remarkably unsympathetic who wished he'd shut up and got angry with him, especially fellow soldiers who'd also engaged in the massacre, and he fled his family and went back to heroin. Then busted for heroin he was put into prison and then when out he had to pay fees (and there were few if any questions asked on how he got the money) which encouraged crime (including violent crime) to pay his parole officer as well as to get more heroin.

And I met him when I was a 15-year-old runaway, a guy nearly crazed with what happened to him in Vietnam, in prison after he got back, and his heroin addictions (he died of OD before I returned home, and to this day I don't know if it was accidental or suicide). On one hand he did pot as a kid, but I do believe his life would've been radically different and more pleasant had pot simply been legal and/or not being sent to Vietnam and/or his heroin addiction being treated as medical problem instead of a criminal one.

For these reasons I'm very cynical of the war on some drugs, I don't think it's a war we can win (btw, someone tried to sell me pot at Safeway just a few days ago), it needs to be regulated like alcohol (alcohol used to be a lot more deadly and poisoned during Prohibition than it is today because it's regulated), legalization would destroy many gangs as the end of Prohibition did (especially if the law focused strictly on going after unlicensed distributors), lessen corruption among authorities, save billions of tax dollars a year, and treating it as a medical problem rather than as a legal one would make it easier for people to get help, and make room in prison for the truly violent offenders. And with less criminals promoting drugs and more people getting (perhaps required in some cases) medical help for their drug problems should lead to less use overall.

The only thing I'd fear is commercialization of it since commercials affect a great many people to do unwise things and buy things they don't need (and should indeed stay away from). I'm not sure where the happy balance is on that. But in any case, I currently see Prohibition as far more damaging and corrupting to society than the drugs themselves.

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NativelyJoan
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posted February 06, 2012 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
The only thing I'd fear is commercialization of it since commercials affect a great many people to do unwise things and buy things they don't need (and should indeed stay away from). I'm not sure where the happy balance is on that. But in any case, I currently see Prohibition as far more damaging and corrupting to society than the drugs themselves.

Again I'm on the fence. I am one of those people who believes that people should have the right to make their own choices of whether to engage in drinking alcohol, smoking pot and doing drugs. However my faith in humanity isn't that strong, and although I'm deeply against restrictions, I don't know if my faith in humanity is strong enough to believe that people will be able to make the right decisions when it comes to drugs. Considering the bad decisions people make everyday with alcohol. My best friend a non-drinker was killed by a drunk driver. Legalizing it could have the effect it's had on alcohol, increasing crimes and deaths related to intoxication. Everything is a two edged sword, with good there is always bad.

It's not easy trying to regulate commercial products owned by private companies. We've seen that with tobacco and alcohol. Drug cartels and crimes related to drug trafficking aren't solely related to marijuana therefore the argument that if legalized it could help lower drug trafficking crime doesn't really hold weight. Legalizing marijuana will not end drug trafficking or drug related crime because there is an even bigger market for much harder drugs. The expense of trying to regulate marijuana if it became a commercial product might also be to high if there isn't a substantial market, even though the government might try to tax it ridiculously which will just make commercial distribution and consumption even more difficult. Economics would have to be considered and how it would benefit the economy and society. Again we live in a capitalistic society and profit is the biggest concern when it comes to politicians and economists. Would companies want to sell weed products? Is there a big enough market for weed to offset the costs of regulating it? And what about taxes?

Just look at the Netherlands and the lengths they go to in regulating marijuana which is legal. Tourists are their best customers and they are actually going throw the process of banning tourists from those cafes in Amsterdam. The government is cracking down on pot and it's legal there. Personally, I think we view drugs in too much of a black and white fashion. Meaning if people don't get it commercially with it becoming legalized they'll get it from a drug dealer. Which excludes the large portion of those who would decline consuming pot products all together. Based on stats those who don't consume pot are in the majority. In the US we have and have always had a substantial market for alcohol, but do we have a great enough market for weed? I don't know. The truth is hard to find in the mist of all the lies for and against marijuana's legalization, however I do think it should be up to the person to decide whether or not to consume drugs or alcohol. We've discussed this on GU, but I don't think we should have laws period. I support anarchy but because we don't live in a society that could sustain any form of anarchy, in our democratic society if the majority support it and the elected officials see a motive financially it will be.

Thank you again for being so incisive and honest with your answer PixieJane. I've really enjoyed this discussion and I've learned a great deal. I deeply respect you as a person, considering all you've been through and I'm always interested in the things you have to stay.

Thank you to everyone who responded.

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Stawr
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posted February 18, 2012 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm really only a social reefer smoker. And a lot of my friends are stonners. lol

I've really never really bought any myself. I do get those "I need some!" moments when I have bad menstrual pains.

And it's even more rare for me to go "I really need to smoke some!" From being so on EDGE! (mostly because of work)
I have been feeling this way for 4 days! Like this is probably the 2nd or 3rd time in my life I have felt this way.

But I want to try something legal...to make my life better. Have a spa day! And I had no idea how frustrating that is. From finding a place near by that is open on a Monday. To finding a place that answers their phone! Well the two I tried didn't (even though I called during their hours, like they don't have a person to answer their phones. wth) I finally found one place that would at least let me leave a message. SO! they! better! call! me! right! back! on! Monday! morning!!

How is it that getting weed is more attainable than booking a day at the spa!?

Before I go back to work, I am either going to the spa...or getting blowed out of my mind so I can mellow the eff out.

Also for jobs I can quit it cold turkey. When I start to look out for jobs, I will quit.

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Aquacheeka
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posted March 21, 2012 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm currently in love with/living with a pothead. I think because of the depth of my feelings for him I'm in a state of denial about just how much of a long-term dealbreaker this actually is. I can definitely identify with the parts written about suspended adolescence and pot use.

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NativelyJoan
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posted March 21, 2012 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting, Stawr and Aquacheeka, thank you for sharing.

@Aquacheeka, when you say it could possibly be a deal breaker long term are you speaking about this person's habit of smoking pot or the impact it's having on their life and yours being in a relationship with them? Feel free not to answer any apart of that question that you do not want too.

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Stawr
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posted March 21, 2012 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I finally booked a spa day. But I want to go on a Saturday like everybody else. So I had to book mine more than a month ago...I go the end of this month!
So during that time I went to the gun range with my dad to relieve stress.
So yeah I've smoked since then. But I have been enjoying work more lately. Maybe it's the whether, and that I have a long easter break comming up. (heh yeah I can say easter break since I work at a catholic school)

But I will say...is the one thing I can not stand is when people wanna smoke it all the time and can't support their own habits. When people want your money so they can smoke it. Fuq that sh!t. Someone seriously a few weeks ago asked me if I could by them some. So I decided not to be friends with them anymore, and I lived happily ever after. haha

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Aquacheeka
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From: Toronto
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posted March 22, 2012 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Very interesting, Stawr and Aquacheeka, thank you for sharing.

@Aquacheeka, when you say it could possibly be a deal breaker long term are you speaking about this person's habit of smoking pot or the impact it's having on their life and yours being in a relationship with them? Feel free not to answer any apart of that question that you do not want too.



It's the lifestyle, potheads live sort of naturally chaotic lives and also being an avid nonsmoker myself it is very difficult to get to grips with the damage that my partner inflicts upon his body everyday. I feel that we should have more respect for our bodies than that and protect our health. So ultimately it is a question of values, I suppose. But I have quite a few laissez-faire placements being so heavily Aqua so I also do not want to dictate or impose how he has to live, I feel internal pressure to be tolerant.

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Aquacheeka
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From: Toronto
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posted March 22, 2012 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aquacheeka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
delete

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