posted May 23, 2012 04:22 PM            

As for why so many get divorced? I'm sure the reasons you list fit plenty, especially those who divorce a lot, but I think in many cases people marry too young with a completely unrealistic idea of what marriage is given to us by society. Perhaps a better idea would be to prohibit marriage until one is 25 or even 30.

This problem is compounded in that many people (both genders) put on a false front, an act, until they get married when they feel they can relax and "take the mask off." And perhaps many spouses takes their partner for granted (maybe they both do) and that's not conducive to keeping a loving relationship alive. Of course even when a marriage is entered to honestly people can still change and become incompatible.

And thanks to modern circumstances and technology partners are no longer as desperately dependent on each other as they were a hundred years ago.

And speaking as a child of divorce I'm wondering if it would've been better if my 'rents stayed married. (Minutes pass, still thinking...) I honestly can't say. I suspect one of my parents would be dead (and maybe the other in prison) had they not separated, but I don't really know. ETA: Had one parent been killed and the other imprisoned (or Mom died, I think Dad would've gladly given me up) then I'd have been sent to live with Granny, and that wouldv'e been better for me (but not my parents).

posted May 23, 2012 06:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I am in favour of repealing "irreconcilable differences," no-fault divorce, and returning to the original limitations on marital separation that existed before the mid-70s.

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That would have sucked for my ex and I. We married for insurance purposes with a nonlegal binding contract to re examine the marriage in 3 years to determine if we wanted to continue with another 3 year non bonding contract.

We decided against it. No harm no foul. No children either though. We're still really good friends, just not remotely compatible in a relationship. We suck each other dry without providing nourishment... sure it could be worked out with enough effort put into it, but it's really not a big deal. Move on, be happy, stay friends.

posted May 23, 2012 08:17 PM            

I had never wanted to get married. I have a daughter, but was not happy with her father and we never made that vow, thankfully.

posted May 24, 2012 04:43 AM            

Mum said when they dated, he was the sweetest, kindest man she had ever met..it changed after they were married and I kind of adopted the fear of ever experiencing the same thing.

Well, it did almost happen. I was engaged to a guy who was pretty normal although there were subtle red flags (which I chose to over look) and when we broke up (he cheated) he was a completely different person.. If we had married, I would have been in the same situation as my mum was and it would have ended in divorce.

The reasons for divorce vary but personally, if there is no abuse or cheating, I would work hard with my partner to work it out. Quitting on a relationship is an easy way out. Learning to compromise, communicate openly with each other etc goes a long way.

Misunderstandings and assumptions can lead to a relationship to sink. I have learnt that men especially, are not mind readings. We need to be specific with issues we may have to work on the core of the problem.

I wouldn't want to marry to divorce later. I take commitment seriously and it for the long haul come better or worse.

------------------

quote:

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Remember, love can conquer the influences of the planets....It can even eliminate karma.

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posted May 24, 2012 07:25 AM            

The "no divorce at all" thing is extremism. I can't stand extremes; they just irritate me so much.

Infidelity, abuse (emotional, physical, OR psychological), manipulation, stealing, and any other form of mistreatment is not only grounds for divorce, but frankly, divorce is the intelligent choice in those situations.

I do believe that people should try to work things out, but sometimes, things cannot be worked out. If, for example, your partner isn't abusive, but still treats you like crap, will not meet you halfway, will not communicate, etc., then you need to get out of that relationship.

And, too, sometimes people have to divorce because they have non-negotiable problems. Some issues, you have to go one way or the other. You can compromise on a lot of things, but there are exceptions to that--and this is coming from a Libra.

I think that the better thing to do would be to have more marriage preparation classes available and to give people a more realistic idea of what marriage is before they get married. I think that a lot of people think that it's all about love or playing house, but it's not. You need more than love to make a relationship work, that's just reality.

No one should be a doormat, either. If someone isn't treating you right, you need to dump them. If someone lives a lifestyle that ruins your happiness and well-being (such as someone being a gambler and throwing away your life's savings), and they refuse to get their act together, you need to get out before they drag you down to hell with them. It isn't fair to yourself to have to live in poverty because someone else makes bad choices. If someone is willing to change, goes to treatment, and sticks to the changes, that's different--someone like that, you can stand by that person without losing everything.

As for children, two stable, safe, and happy homes are better than a war zone. And frankly, it's very irresponsible to stay in a bad relationship because it will teach kids that this behavior is normal and OK, and they will be likely to repeat it. So, you could end up being partially responsible for someone getting abused later on by your own kid witnessing your own abuse.

At the end of the day, I don't agree with throwaway marriages, but I also don't agree with the extremist anti-divorce mentality.

posted May 24, 2012 10:49 AM            

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/sons-of-divorce-fare-worse-than-daughters/
http://affaircare.blogspot.ca/2011/01/kids-are-not-okay-when-parents-divorce.html
http://lifetwo.com/production/node/20070123-divorce-often- doesnt-make-people-happier-sometimes-staying-together-does

posted May 24, 2012 10:52 AM            

quote:

---

‎During his 20-year project studying a total of 2,000 adults and
700 of their children, Amato has changed his mind about the effects
of divorce on kids. "Divorce does harm large numbers of children," he
now says. "We should lower the divorce rate not by restricting access
to divorce, but by strengthening marriages.

---

quote:

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Couples who rank in the lowest percentile on marital
satisfaction but who don't divorce often say they are very happy five
years later, while those who divorce do not. If you are playing the
odds in favor of happiness, "staying married is the better bet," says
University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite.

---

posted May 24, 2012 10:54 AM            

quote:

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Bottom line? We CHOOSE our spouses--our kids do not. The kids deserve to have a mother and a father in their lives on daily bases not every other weekend type BS.
Most of the time when people are unhappy with themselves they blame the person closest to them--their spouse. However if divorce was such an antidote to being unhappy you woulnd't see 2nd and 3rd marriages with with higher divorce rates than the first ones.
Suck it up, get counseling, man up/woman up and YES stay together for the kids. They need us..both of us, and their needs should trump our needs.

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posted May 24, 2012 10:59 AM            

quote:

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Abuse is an exception to all of these rules. If there is abuse, you have to get out, no questions asked. Just leave. Keep you and your kids safe.

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I very much agree with this stance, only in the cases of extreme abuse or credible threats of violence. After all, one of the many reasons I am against divorce is because the studies show that they lead to a much higher incidence of child abuse. If a child is already being abused then obviously there is no reason to stay in that situation and all bets are off.

The reason why children are more affected by divorce than the death of a parent is because it's impossible for a child to make sense of their parents CHOOSING to destroy their family. At least death is involuntary.

Verbal abuse requires counselling to learn healthier ways to communicate.

quote:

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But there's good news as well -- marriages can be turned around. Of those who first rated their marriages "very unhappy" but stayed married, five years later 80% said they were happily married. Of the "unhappy" group, two-thirds became "happy."

The researchers were so intrigued by this that they conducted focus group interviews with 55 couples who made their unhappy marriages better.

Their marital unhappiness was caused by serious problems: "alcoholism, infidelity, verbal abuse, emotional neglect, depression, illness, and work reversals." The researchers clumped them into three groups:

When bad things happen to good spouses -- the most common problems were caused by forces outside the marriage, such as work or career issues, financial or health problems, or the demands of children.
Men behaving badly -- these problems included infidelity, demeaning behavior, alcohol abuse, and too much time away from the family.
Communication difficulties and difficult personality traits
The secret to fighting through these? Time and stubbornness.

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posted May 24, 2012 11:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Well, whatever it is, its not an option for me. There is nothing that cannot be worked out.

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posted May 24, 2012 11:08 AM            

I close my eyes when I get too sad
I think thoughts that I know are bad
Close my eyes and I count to ten
Hope it's over when I open them

I want the things that I had before
Like a Star Wars poster on my bedroom door
I wish I could count to ten
Make everything be wonderful again

Hope my mom and I hope my dad
Will figure out why they get so mad
Hear them scream, I hear them fight
They say bad words that make me wanna cry

Close my eyes when I go to bed
And I dream of angels who make me smile
I feel better when I hear them say
Everything will be wonderful someday

Promises mean everything when you're little
And the world's so big
I just don't understand how
You can smile with all those tears in your eyes
Tell me everything is wonderful now

Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now

I go to school and I run and play
I tell the kids that it's all okay
I laugh aloud so my friends won't know
When the bell rings I just don't wanna go home

Go to my room and I close my eyes
I make believe that I have a new life
I don't believe you when you say
Everything will be wonderful someday

Promises mean everything when you're little
And the world is so big
I just don't understand how
You can smile with all those tears in your eyes
When you tell me everything is wonderful now

No
No, I don't wanna hear you tell me everything is wonderful now
No
No, I don't wanna hear you tell me everything is wonderful now

I don't wanna hear you say
That I will understand someday
No, no, no, no
I don't wanna hear you say
You both have grown in a different way
No, no, no, no
I don't wanna meet your friend
And I don't wanna start over again
I just want my life to be the same
Just like it used to be
Some days I hate everything
I hate everything
Everyone and everything
Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now...

I don't wanna hear you tell me everything is wonderful now"

posted May 24, 2012 11:10 AM            

Studies show that "daughters of divorce are 70-76% more likely to initiate a divorce within the first five years of marriage compared to daughters raised in intact homes." They never got to observe effective conflict management strategies in action.

posted May 24, 2012 11:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sand:
There is no such thing where I'm from..

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posted May 24, 2012 12:12 PM            

We were broken for a little while, but I don't really remember anymore. My mother was happy, my father was happy. I don't remember them being unhappy when married though, but my mom tells me they kept everything inside. I think my dad would have stayed married forever, he's like that. But she had enough.

He (my dad) is a very different person now then he was then. Drug abuse and mental abuse to a slight extent, controlling etc. He's not that guy now. He had never really been taught how to be a husband or any type of effective problem management. His mother had beaten him and his father, as her father had her mother and her as well, so there were deep seeded issues there.

I don't know. Who they are now, it could work. They could have gotten through those hard times maybe, but it would have been VERY hard on us. We didn't see my dad's drug problem because my mom threw him out. She threatened to never let him see us again unless he sorted it out. He did. But for them, it was over.

posted May 24, 2012 06:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
Children of divorce: rapists and other criminals: http://www.divorcereform.org/crime.html

"ýA 1987 study found that divorce - regardless of the economic status of the disrupted family - posed the strongest correlation with robbery rates in American cities larger than 100,000 population."

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What this overlooks is that most such families come from very poverty ridden areas and parents involved (even before divorce) tend to be criminals themselves. That is, correlation doesn't imply causation, and I didn't find this article convincing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
"It’s Parental Divorce, Not Death, That Hurts Your Child Most":

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That was well written. I think it could add more about how parents who can't stay together have a harder time being taken seriously when they tell their kids to honor their commitments & obligations, too.

Nevertheless I know someone who told me when his dad told him his mother had just walked out (and blamed the boy for it) his thought was, "One down, one to go."

quote:

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"But there's good news as well -- marriages can be turned around. Of those who first rated their marriages "very unhappy" but stayed married, five years later 80% said they were happily married. Of the "unhappy" group, two-thirds became "happy."

---

The next link made some interesting points and I believe the part where people unhappy in marriage tend to remain that way after (though it's not necessarily true). Yet it still suffers, IMO, in that the assumption is all marriages are the same, that is if those that split apart had tried to work it out then they, too, would've been better off. But that would only be true if they were the same as the people who worked it out and in the same circumstances, but those are variables and so what can be said about one can't be said about the other. If some worked it out then it's very probable that they recognized the fact beforehand and put out the effort--and we also don't know that they were indeed happy given how many stayed married their entire lives miserable (and sleeping in separate bedrooms) and emotionally (and worse) abusive to their kids.

It also takes more than one study like this to be taken serious, and studies like this tend to attract certain test subjects which makes them particularly vulnerable to being wrong in general (that is, it focuses on a specific set of individuals or circumstances rather than a true random selection).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Everclear:
Hope my mom and I hope my dad
Will figure out why they get so mad
Hear them scream, I hear them fight
They say bad words that make me wanna cry

---

This also describes children in families that don't divorce, btw. And some parents who divorce do so with maturity and civility, though I grant that's rare (of course it seems any type of maturity and civility that isn't forced is rare...) And if things were so wonderful then there probably wouldn't have been a divorce. Things sure weren't wonderful in my family before divorce.

Here's a much better song, IMO, about working things out for the kids (though it wasn't strictly the divorce here but the entire immature & dysfunctional dynamics between the parents before the divorce as well):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra-Om7UMSJc&ob=av3n

At least I feel a lot more connection to that song & vid.

posted May 24, 2012 06:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I am in favour of repealing "irreconcilable differences," no-fault divorce, and returning to the original limitations on marital separation that existed before the mid-70s.

---

So, I have a question for you. Would you be amiable to the government creating different set of rules that gives people the same legal and financial rights as a married couple, without getting married... should you ever be in the situation to get your wish?

Because to give people government benefits for being married and then turn around and say, "Well, you're married... you can't ever get a divorce. But hey look, you save money on taxes, can collect eachother's insurance benefits, and can visit one another in the hospital... so that's good, yeah?" Seems kind of a ****** thing to do/want.