posted August 10, 2013 09:59 PM            

You want a good looking guy, I assume. You want a guy with a good job.

If you were to get married, you would be looking for a guy with the above traits.

Everyone does.

You want all the things you are decrying. That is hypocrisy. I am just talking straight.

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 10, 2013 10:02 PM            

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 10, 2013 10:14 PM            

Save that guys are defined more than their looks, unlike plenty of women. Generally speaking, for women good looks in a partner are a bonus and/or secondary, not a requirement (though obviously slobs aren't well liked). Guys obsessed about their looks (like metrosexuals) are often rejected by men and women both whereas women who don't bother with their looks are often looked at in a bad way (even if they still look good).

And a guy's thoughts and deeds matter so much more. If a man upsets people speaking on politics (perhaps even as a judge) they will attack his reasoning and/or decisions, but if a woman in the same position did the same then they're more inclined to attack her looks. And women do it to other women, too, not just men, because while men are expected to be the trophy winners a woman is expected to be one of his trophies, and her ultimately destiny is to give herself to a man (even her last name) and bear his children, and if anything I think women are more inclined to buy into it than men (we get raised on enough fairy tales with this message as children, and continue to read into with stories like Twilight and Fifty Shades of Gray in its own way).

I know a professional author who stopped posting her pic (and she's beautiful, IMO) because she got sick of people commenting on how beautiful she was than on her talent as an author (which is impressive). Looks fade, and some of us want to be measured on another criteria, judging us on looks first (even when it's positive) is just another way to dismiss any other quality we have and downplay anything we achieve like a condescending pat on the head, saying it doesn't matter when we do it, only that we look good to men while doing it.

That's just one example. I could add many more reasons, but the more I add the less likely it will be read.

posted August 10, 2013 10:57 PM            

quote:

---

her ultimately destiny is to give herself to a man and bear his children

---

Your destiny is to a great degree - what you make of it.

But - yes - a majority of people get married and have children (so that is part of their destiny, by choice.. in Western Society... sometimes not by choice, in societies where they still have pre-arranged marriages for example).

There are many social rules, norms and dogmas etc..
But in today's Western world.. truth be told - if you are a person, male or female - who has a reasonable financial status... you have a lot of options out there and you have the freedom to take up those options.

In circumstances where your choices in life are at odds with social norms.. you simply have to be strong minded enough and resilient enough to keep going. If you are not, then you give up and it's 'game over'.
But aren't those just the basic rules of -survival- in any circumstance where one has to overcome challenges?
And wouldn't everything be so damn boring if we never had any challenges at all and life was perfect?
I think Padre ^ said this at one point and I agree.

In terms of women's rights - things are on the move and have been for quite some time. The situation is by no means *stagnant*, but rather in a state of change.
I personally think, things are basically moving in the right direction.
In my personal world.. I feel like money = freedom ultimately.. so as long as I work and I make money - I have more choices available to me. I definitely do not feel confined by social norms, as a woman.
This is mostly because being an Aries I am very disinterested in 'expectations' and more interested in simply being me.. and I'd really like to see the person or institution out there who stands in my way. Because they will not be standing for long.

posted August 10, 2013 11:29 PM            

quote:

---

If a man upsets people speaking on politics (perhaps even as a judge) they will attack his reasoning and/or decisions, but if a woman in the same position did the same then they're more inclined to attack her looks

---

What can be done about this?

If you had to take some form of action against this sort of thing happening - what would you do?

quote:

---

men are expected to be the trophy winners a woman is expected to be one of his trophies

---

So you want to change this kind of male perspective on women, seeing them as 'trophies'...
Could you maybe write an article explaining why this is negative and what are some positive ways in which they could see women?
Or perhaps you could run a gender studies class in HS specifically for guys of a certain age... say 15-18?
This could be something to suggest to a local HS or other educational institution.
I think you would make a great teacher personally.

quote:

---

we get raised on enough fairy tales with this message as children, and continue to read into with stories like Twilight

---

So when you have your own children - don't do that.
There are other educated adults who also won't.
So these things can change over time.

quote:

---

Downplay anything we achieve like a condescending pat on the head, saying it doesn't matter when we do it, only that we look good to men while doing it.

---

Physical health (which often translates into average to good looks) will always matter to everyone, male and female.. in seeking a partner (because we are alive and most of us want to continue on that way).

However, if you ever feel like your own achievements are downplayed - you should definitely speak up and explain why this is rude and hurtful. It's important that the other party understands.

Did the female writer in question, explain to her admirers that these kinds of comments about her looks - were bothering her? And did she explain the reasons why this was upsetting?
Taking her photo down resolves the problem for her.. but it does not change the views of the people who made those comments.

quote:

---

I've overheard a pair of women on a public bus talk about making their men work at an abusive, exploitative place that had no future for them simply so they'd bring home some money

---

posted August 10, 2013 11:45 PM            

That said, Twilight was pointed out, in the main board there is a thread about "Chinese Astrology" (ie, which media figures are which signs and omg..I'm the same sign) thread.

Kirsten Stewart of Twilight fame is included, which merely enforces the theme of Twilight is widely accepted and even celebrated.

Which to me points out the larger issue, to often "we" pay attention to external views, often imposed via media, over internal views, which are the culmination of experience and observation.

If the mind were a castle, the main gate is down opening the mind to be rewired by whatever image is the input of the moment.

I've noticed that TV shows have recently began flashing images on the screen, scenes are possibly 2 seconds long..then flash to something else, the conscious mind will have a problem following along, I suspect the subconscious mind does not.

Especially shows aimed at a younger market.

For example, porn demonstrably re-wires the brain.

posted August 11, 2013 12:29 AM            

quote:

---

I've noticed that TV shows have recently began flashing images on the screen, scenes are possibly 2 seconds long..then flash to something else, the conscious mind will have a problem following along, I suspect the subconscious mind does not.

---

posted August 11, 2013 03:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Hanna
You can talk about unfairness all day long but YOU are part of the system, too.

You want a good looking guy, I assume. You want a guy with a good job.

If you were to get married, you would be looking for a guy with the above traits.

Everyone does.

You want all the things you are decrying. That is hypocrisy. I am just talking straight.

---

posted August 11, 2013 07:21 AM            

You can have that desire but it will never happen because sexy sells.

My point is that many of the people who decry a subject WANT the same things THEMSELVES such as to look sexy and find a sexy guy, so it is a hypocrisy.

To me, I like someone like Odette. She calls it like it is. I just hate fake.

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 08:26 AM            

I still disagree. I think it CAN happen if consumers become conscious of what they're really being sold. Overnight? No, of course not, but eventually.

posted August 11, 2013 08:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Lol, if you hate fake then why not do something proactive about the stereotypes both genders are faced with from the media?

I still disagree. I think it CAN happen if consumers become conscious of what they're really being sold. Overnight? No, of course not, but eventually.

---

How do you propose I change the media

My angst is the stupid, ignorant people who think they are so enlightened

I am not talking about you.

Young people are different, too, as they are finding their way.

The older people who are still this way are purely disgusting.
------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 09:12 AM            

quote:

---

The older people who are still this way are purely disgusting.

---

Older is pretty subjective, is the older meaning over 50?

posted August 11, 2013 09:17 AM            

I didn't think Hannah was being hypocritical here.

posted August 11, 2013 09:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
Sometimes I feel like I try to be perfectly honest - but I'm too erratic to get there, with my Mercury square Uranus in mutable signs lol

I didn't think Hannah was being hypocritical here.

But I get what you mean about many people being hypocritical when it comes to this subject.

---

You are someone who is a role model to me, Odette.

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 09:28 AM            

The older people who are self deluded into thinking they are enlightened when they are immature fools are the people I am talking about.

This is what the Bible would call a [b] fool[/b}

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 09:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Young people are searching for truth, by virtue of being young. That is expected. Odette is unexpectedly mature for her young years.

The older people who are self deluded into thinking they are enlightened when they are immature fools are the people I am talking about.

This is what the Bible would call a [b] fool[/b}

---

Does the bible state what is older in years or in foolishness>? Both can apply.

posted August 11, 2013 09:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hannaramaa:
Lol, if you hate fake then why not do something proactive about the stereotypes both genders are faced with from the media?

I still disagree. I think it CAN happen if consumers become conscious of what they're really being sold. Overnight? No, of course not, but eventually.

---

Thing is hannaramaa, the media's products are not going to change anymore then mcdonald's will stop selling meat(ish) based products.

The current formulas make them to much $$$.

All that an individual can do is tune the media out and simply decide for oneself what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.

Such introspective consumption, or lack thereof, is rare in N. America

posted August 11, 2013 09:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Young people are searching for truth, by virtue of being young. That is expected. Odette is unexpectedly mature for her young years.

The older people who are self deluded into thinking they are enlightened when they are immature fools are the people I am talking about.

This is what the Bible would call a [b] fool[/b}

---

Not so, the word "fool" is sparsely used in the Bible, normally it is associated with a disbelief in God or an after life.

In fact in the NT, the word is enjoined from being used concerning someone else.

posted August 11, 2013 10:05 AM            

HOWEVER, the people who bastardize the Bible and make their own gods out of it would fit, too.

That is my larger point even though your micro point is totally true

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 10:06 AM            

I put a joker because I like to see the dark humor in everything but this is not funny at all.

It is about as funny as the Good Germans in Nazi Germany.

They were the kind of fools to which I am referring, Padre dear.

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 10:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The problem with fools in these dangerous times is that they will go with [b]evil [/B]

---

I can`t argue with that!!

Proverbs 10:18 - He that hideth hatred [with] lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

posted August 11, 2013 10:11 AM            

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 11, 2013 10:15 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, Padre, I know the Bible says that the fool says there is no God.

HOWEVER, the people who bastardize the Bible and make their own gods out of it would fit, too.

That is my larger point even though your micro point is totally true

---

My issue is, so few actually know what the scriptures say, and then they edit it for their own outlook instead of seeing things as a whole.

None of which has a thing to do with "does sex sell", though it may be fairly pointed out that John the Baptist was beheaded so the king to sleep with a teen aged girl.

On a larger point it is interesting that the default is Biblical morality, it makes an appearance, however when it is further considered that the states with the highest self identification of "Christians" are also the ones with highest porn consumption per capita in the US.

posted August 11, 2013 11:07 AM            

VERY few

------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal